Dilemma Oz or UK

[Que Sera Sera]

An well, I must have, in the same way that people in UK never see kids playing outside! But many is the time my granddaughters have had the playground to themselves when I've taken them - not the parks so much as the neighbourhood playgrounds, the parks are well populated wherever you go. The playgrounds are good in Canberra, I grant you, as they are here. But here you can guarantee that there will be a kid playing on them any time you walk past.

 

Are we seriously going to argue about how many children play in playgrounds in the UK v Australia....

I don't see how this is useful to the OP.

And this is why I don't come on the forum very much. Although it is also probably because my kids are playing outside in the local playground with all the other kids that are there.

 

Wish I could triple like this.

[flag of convenience]

There are parks and play equipment on practically every street corner. Yes the Government provide these as decorative ornaments knowing no one ever uses them ................c'mon seriously .....pathetic.

 

Local government provides them as far as I'm aware. Yes can be decorative. We have lots of such things around where I live. Mixed results. Some locations are seldom in use. Others get more of a workout. I guess the protective nature of parents prohibits greater use without their presence.

[Quoll]

From what I've read, you spent so much of your time indoors hiding from the sun you wouldn't be frequently walking past any playgrounds in Canberra?

That's true, much less walking in Aus, I drive past them off course in my air conditioned car! There were 3 within very short distance of our place, all very poorly patronised - one did have a bit of a local reputation for needles though so not too much of a surprise.

 

I would imagine that if you let /encourage your kids to pay outside in one country you will do it in the other but if you can't be fagged to take them in one place you probably won't in the other. I doubt moving to a foreign country will change behaviour much in the long term Over 30 years I noticed a huge difference in outside pay in Aus - whether that is parental constraints, parent apathy or kid apathy I have no idea. Back in the day, there was a hoop outside every house, don't see that anymore either.

Edited January 1, 2017 by Quoll

[tea4too]

Sometimes I read a post, including a few on this thread, and wonder if people are so confrontational in real life, whether they generally use sarcasm and scorn to make their point, closing down conversations with sharp retorts rather than clarifying with genuine follow up questions. Even a conciliatory ‘agree to disagree’ seems impossible for some, irrespective of the fact that we all make judgments, all the time, based on our own personal, prejudiced experiences. Just saying like. T x

[Que Sera Sera]

Sometimes I read a post, including a few on this thread, and wonder if people are so confrontational in real life, whether they generally use sarcasm and scorn to make their point, closing down conversations with sharp retorts rather than clarifying with genuine follow up questions. Even a conciliatory ‘agree to disagree’ seems impossible for some, irrespective of the fact that we all make judgments, all the time, based on our own personal, prejudiced experiences. Just saying like. T x

 

Yep works both ways. Sometimes I see things more and more from those that have returned as very bitter and down right untruthfal that I wonder what is going on in their lives that makes them feel the need to return and come out with the same old bull crap. Just saying like!

[tea4too]

Yep works both ways. Sometimes I see things more and more from those that have returned as very bitter and down right untruthfal that I wonder what is going on in their lives that makes them feel the need to return and come out with the same old bull crap. Just saying like!

 

Not sure how working ‘both ways’ is really relevant to the need to be confrontational? Disagreement is fine and the stuff that interesting forums are made of - one person’s meat is another person’s poison and all that stuff. But the sharpness and sarcasm of some replies is unnecessary imo and does little other than close the conversation down while discouraging others from taking part. Anyway I have taken the thread off topic, so with apologies to the OP I’ll leave it at that. T x

[Siblin!]

Hi there, be careful. Once you open Pandora's box, there is no going back. But, I think you already have. You are already on your journey and it will always be an itch you need to scratch. I don't think any amount of yes or no verdicts will sway you as you will make a case for your own mind set anyway.

I have pinged and ponged. I have experienced the bad and good of Oz but I can honestly say that despite the absence of family in Oz, it is the better place to be. That is, for me.

You will go on your own journey.

Good luck X

[Bound4Tassie]

I never made friends (or wanted to really) with other parents at the school gate etc. I made most of my friends at work - usually with the same interests and sense of humour. Until settling for a fair few years in Sydney, I moved around a lot since leaving home at 16 years old. The only place found very insular was Switzerland. I knew people on a superficial level but never developed any real friendships there. Now we've moved again, this time to Tasmania and I've made good friends who I met - believe it or not ..... dog walking. We love all animals and help out at the local RSPCA rescue kennels and we adopted 4 horses which we care for together. Now 3 horses as we found a good home for the youngest one. We go out for a meal every couple of weeks and meet for coffee at one or the others homes. I have also been invited to join a book club but I really don't fancy that and also to join the Devonport embroidery guild. I went and the people were lovely but they are superb needle women. They do exquisite embroidery, patchwork and knitting and as I'm absolutely rubbish at those things I only go now and again for a chat and a cuppa. I have to say folk here are very friendly and I do think it may be because we are older also a few of them have now retired from the mainland to Tasmania so we are relative newcomers. A good percentage of them are originally from the UK and two very nice women I met are originally from Germany but lived for years in Sydney.

 

Dog walking and volunteering at a rescue greyhound kennels is how I met friends down south . As in another post these are not as close or deep a friendship as say uni friends but I wouldn't expect them to be. Extremely lovely/kind People of all age groups. When we settle in Tas they are the type of people I would look to befriend.... So watch out at your local rspca Jock! Lol!

[Gareth 666]

We decided to go down the emigration route in 2012. There were a few reasons but mainly we wanted to make sure there's nothing better out there that we were going to look back on at 60-65 years old and say, wish we'd at least tried that. We got the visas, validated them and then waited for 'the right time' to move. We finally thought that last August was now or never. DD had just finished GCSE's, DS was just moving up from primary school and there was not enough time left on the visas to let them get to the next stages of education. It's been hard. We initially headed to the Sunshine Coast as we had friends who said we could stay with them until we were on our feet, no deadline to move out in fact they were moving and we were told we could stay in their basement apartment almost ad infinitum. This was all well and good in theory but the reality of 10 living in close proximity wasn't such a good idea. We found work in the area very hard to come by, despite some very good leads generated before we moved, and by the time we left we felt we'd overstayed our welcome. With work being thin on the ground we looked further afield and I found a job in Melbourne. So we upped sticks again and hauled ourselves down. We're settling again, this time with a decent income and finally our own place, well a rental at least. I have no idea if we'll settle long term or if we've done the right thing. We had a great group of friends in the UK, steady work and a nice home that we may have given up on a whim, I guess only time will tell. The thing is, mainly in answer to your post, even with friends in place we've moved on and still started anew. I got the feeling that the guys we stayed with hadn't got the largest of friendship groups even after 5 years here and they were possibly in need of us to live with them as much as we needed a base. Our lifestyle will be roughly the same, wages are about on par with living costs, weather so far has been changeable in Melbourne but at the same time it feels more like 'home'. I think we were at the same point as you before we left and to be honest we're still not sure after nearly 5 months here. With hindsight would we have moved and given ourselves all the associated stress? At this point probably not but in 12 months time that might be a different answer and in 20 years time we'll at least look back, however it goes, with no 'what ifs'. Hope this has helped in some way.

[kungfustu]

We have our visa 189 and it's been validated.

We just can't decide whether to go or not. We have 3 kids all under 4 and a nice house in a nice Village. But just feel like the lifestyle here doesn't suit us as in none of our friends want to socialise as families they still just want their nights out on the p*ss. We have absolutely no family help so have never had a babysitter and never had any time alone from the kids. We find it a bit lonely and would love a lifestyle where we socialise as a family with other families.

Problem with Oz is we would definitely have a lot less money. A similar type house would be about twice the price.

If we stay in UK we could afford nice holidays and husband could work part time.

What are your thoughts? Is OZ worth the sacrifice of financial security? Is it worth the gamble? Or is the quality of life I'm yearning perhaps right in front me just needing some adjustments?

 

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In a word "No"

 

Reading your post it appears you have quite a decent life already and are really only looking for perfection which is impossible to find. I honestly do not think you will find a better life in Australia.....from our experience most people we met were desperate for a circle of friends and would move hell or high water to keep hold of any they had.....not very welcoming to new arrivals......I always felt they where fearful of losing what friendships they had to newbies......I would be very careful.....Gareths post is very true and very similar to how we found it (apart from work)......If you live in a nice house.....have a decent job and income.....good lifestyle then stay where you are......go on an extended holiday and enjoy the best parts but be very cautious of giving everything up......when we went it was all we wanted to do and we were 100% on the move.....I cannot imagine going through all that again if I was not 100% convinced it was the right thing......Goodluck!

[starlight7]

Everyone has a different experience- some love it, some hate it but I think if you are determined to make a go of it, then you will. It doesn't matter really what anyone says, it is about your family and your family's likes and dislikes. Really really good luck to you and your family whatever you decide!

[fishface]

The OP said a change of social life is what the family are after. I,d say with three young kids your social life at kids groups and school in future will change from the nights on p@@s your real friends still take part in.

I find yes you meet people via schools and sports clubs but you have to push your way in to their lives or invite them into yours. My child is not a team sports girl and that automatically excludes us from a lot on socialising.

Your life with kids will keep changing and so will friend groups, wherever you live.

 

Will ll a move to Australia fix that, big decision and you giving up a lot. You don't know what you've lost until it's gone is how I feel.

[Gareth 666]

I just add, if you're not 100% and you own your home then possibly look into renting it out at least short term. We've had our place 24 years and so have quite an attachment to it, we decided to rent it out as the income more than covers the mortgage and we have a home to return to if it all goes wrong. A good mate of mine sold everything and moved to Perth. A year later it all went tits up for him and he moved back. He's now starting from the bottom again and wishes he'd kept at least a small place as a foothold.

[Collie]

We decided to go down the emigration route in 2012. There were a few reasons but mainly we wanted to make sure there's nothing better out there that we were going to look back on at 60-65 years old and say, wish we'd at least tried that. We got the visas, validated them and then waited for 'the right time' to move. We finally thought that last August was now or never. DD had just finished GCSE's, DS was just moving up from primary school and there was not enough time left on the visas to let them get to the next stages of education. It's been hard. We initially headed to the Sunshine Coast as we had friends who said we could stay with them until we were on our feet, no deadline to move out in fact they were moving and we were told we could stay in their basement apartment almost ad infinitum. This was all well and good in theory but the reality of 10 living in close proximity wasn't such a good idea. We found work in the area very hard to come by, despite some very good leads generated before we moved, and by the time we left we felt we'd overstayed our welcome. With work being thin on the ground we looked further afield and I found a job in Melbourne. So we upped sticks again and hauled ourselves down. We're settling again, this time with a decent income and finally our own place, well a rental at least. I have no idea if we'll settle long term or if we've done the right thing. We had a great group of friends in the UK, steady work and a nice home that we may have given up on a whim, I guess only time will tell. The thing is, mainly in answer to your post, even with friends in place we've moved on and still started anew. I got the feeling that the guys we stayed with hadn't got the largest of friendship groups even after 5 years here and they were possibly in need of us to live with them as much as we needed a base. Our lifestyle will be roughly the same, wages are about on par with living costs, weather so far has been changeable in Melbourne but at the same time it feels more like 'home'. I think we were at the same point as you before we left and to be honest we're still not sure after nearly 5 months here. With hindsight would we have moved and given ourselves all the associated stress? At this point probably not but in 12 months time that might be a different answer and in 20 years time we'll at least look back, however it goes, with no 'what ifs'. Hope this has helped in some way.

 

Great, well balanced post. We rarely regret the things we do, but often the things we didn't do.

 

Je regrette rien.

[Parley]

You mean Je Ne regrette rien

[Collie]

I have read through this thread with interest and a few wry smiles. I have ping ponged back and forward a few times from Ireland. If I had my family and friends from Ireland in Aus it would be perfect (oh & the alps or some decent snow mountains relatively close by).

 

To the OP, I'm a little puzzled; if you weren't sure on coming over why did you apply for the visas?

 

Also, is it just that you are the 1st of your friends to have kids and hence you are ahead of where the others are in the circle of life? I go back to Ireland every couple of years, have a few nights out with my mates from childhood. They often only see each on Wednesdays at 7 aside footie (that's sacro-sant) and maybe get out for a couple of pints every couple of months. They all have young kids though. In this day and age, generally both parents need to work to pay the mortgage and bills so kids are in childcare/school. My mates use my visit as an excuse for an escape out for big night.

 

But back to my original ?, why get the visa in the first place? I presume you did have a desire to emigrate at some stage. I think you have 3 options

 

1 Stay where you are, maybe look for similar age of life people (meet-up.com, kids clubs etc), downside is you'll always wonder what if?

2 Take the leap, make the move and really give Aus a go. You will need to be prepared to go the extra yard as an expat to create a social circle (meetup.com is good for finding similar interest groups), it normally takes 12-18 months to really feel like you have settled in a place. If it doesn't work out, it's a set back but at least you tried.

3 1/2 way house. Rent out your house in the UK, give Australia a go, ideally get citizenship for you and your kids as it gives you future options. If after a couple of years, it's not for you, move back. I think you need to commit to 3 years (or 4 to get citizenship) to really give it a go. You won't dies wondering and you have taken some risk mitigation strategies.

 

Only you guys can make the call but option 3 would be my recommendation

 

Hope this helps, Good luck

[Collie]

No, "I regret nothing"

[benj1980]

Not the famous song!

[Collie]

You mean Je Ne regrette rien

Apologies-I stand corrected.My french was always better at 3am after a night out:)

[n30nra1n]

We moved out in 2011, like most we had good jobs, our own home I a good area and plenty of friends etc. but wanted a better quality of life for the kids (recession hitting etc.) and of course for ourselves.

 

We came believing this was it, yet knowing we could return to the UK if it totally fell apart.

 

Short story long, 5 years later we are still here and loving every minute of it, our only regret is not having done it years ago.

 

Don't get me wrong though there are ups and downs, and family sickness is a tough one.

 

Come though with a mindset of 'just do it', you have to put yourself out more than you would back in blights as you are starting again in terms of your social world, but there are many like minded individuals here already and I am sure you will be fine.

 

 

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