Dilemma Oz or UK

[flag of convenience]

The making of 'friendships' on any level here in Australia, be it family or a couple, is fraught with difficulty to say the least. Many an Aussie with long time living away experience and open minded will concur. This is a remarkably self absorbed nation, not really a place for those with a gregarious nature and 'open to all' type of scenarios. A lot of folk don't get their heads around that as being a possible issue pre departure.

[deryans]

To be frank, we found Adelaide to be extremely backward and narrow minded, almost an poisoned inheritance we did not wish on our children with if that makes sense, vastly narrow minded and myopic on views, often completely ignorant of world events, culture, music (yep, they bang out easy and popular pieces by adelaide chamber, but most of its trite - no colour, no passion, no risk, ) Museums that you can walk through in an hour, no interest in things that did not impact SA, a small inward looking community perhaps oft compared to a country town (this is of course unfair to country towns as they do not seek the hubris and pretence of adelaide), which probably goes some way to explain why they are so sub standard in performance across all major measurable, child protection, education, electricity , justice and so on, we simply could not sentence our children develop in such a sub standard environment like that

[Martinbjulieb]

I personally wouldn't risk the move unless you can afford to do it as a short term adventure. If you are hoping to make new friends I think you will be disappointed. We have lived here 9 years and I can honestly say that I have made only one friend, and my husband none! I totally agree with LKC - quote below.

people can be very insular here.

 

I remember (with some embarrassment now) how thrilled I would be if I managed to talk to someone at a park where I would take the kids, only to be very disappointed when I realised that a friendship was not going to be forthcoming!

 

Yes, of course I know a few mums from school etc, but it is all very superficial and they are usually only interested in you for what they can get, like LKC says below.

 

We are now in the process of moving back before our children get too much older.

Good luck with your decision, but I think what you have is what mosey people are moving back for.

 

 

The other big reason that we are moving back is that in the eight years we have been here I have made two friends, and both of them are migrants themselves (from the US and Slovakia). I know other people from school etc, but I have found it next to impossible to actually make friends with these women. They are happy to use me when it suits, for example for running their kids round to and from school stuff or having them for the day during the holidays if they need to go somewhere, but they don't include me in the things they do together, for example picnics and so on in the school holidays or play dates after school. The area we live in prides itself on being very family friendly, and there are loads of parks with groups of friends chatting whilst their kids play, but for some reason I've found it really hard. I thought it was me, but I had lots of very good friends in the UK, and I know of other people who have had the same difficulties in making friends here.

 

I don't know whether it is a cultural thing, whether I am seen as an outsider or something maybe? We specifically chose an area that was more 'Australian' and with a lower percentage of migrants because we didn't want to move to a little enclave of 'Brits in the sun'. Maybe that was our mistake? Maybe it is more to do with the area than anything else? We wanted to live like Australians, be part of Australian society, we've tried to fit in, but it just hasn't worked for us. It was really brought home to me a couple of years ago when we had some of our friends from the UK over to stay. We'd not seen them for about 10 years (they moved away), and had only kept in touch nominally via the odd email or Facebook message, but for the time they were here it was just like we'd not had that 10 years apart. The conversation flowed like it always had. That made me realise just how disfunctional my social life/friendships are here. I find the same with my American and Slovak friends, we just 'get' each other somehow. I can't even put my finger on why. Maybe we are more culturally similar, with similar backgrounds, sense of humour, more shared history or experience or something? I don't really know.

 

 

[Guest]

To be frank, we found Adelaide to be extremely backward and narrow minded, almost an poisoned inheritance we did not wish on our children with if that makes sense, vastly narrow minded and myopic on views, often completely ignorant of world events, culture, music (yep, they bang out easy and popular pieces by adelaide chamber, but most of its trite - no colour, no passion, no risk, ) Museums that you can walk through in an hour, no interest in things that did not impact SA, a small inward looking community perhaps oft compared to a country town (this is of course unfair to country towns as they do not seek the hubris and pretence of adelaide), which probably goes some way to explain why they are so sub standard in performance across all major measurable, child protection, education, electricity , justice and so on, we simply could not sentence our children develop in such a sub standard environment like that

 

The OP didn't specify where they were considering moving to. OK you bag Adelaide I know, but you also lived elsewhere in Aus didn't you? Was that so bad also? Perhaps share the experience also if it was decent or even if it was not so good.

[LKC]

I personally wouldn't risk the move unless you can afford to do it as a short term adventure. If you are hoping to make new friends I think you will be disappointed. We have lived here 9 years and I can honestly say that I have made only one friend, and my husband none! I totally agree with LKC - quote below.

people can be very insular here.

 

I remember (with some embarrassment now) how thrilled I would be if I managed to talk to someone at a park where I would take the kids, only to be very disappointed when I realised that a friendship was not going to be forthcoming!

 

Yes, of course I know a few mums from school etc, but it is all very superficial and they are usually only interested in you for what they can get, like LKC says below.

 

We are now in the process of moving back before our children get too much older.

Good luck with your decision, but I think what you have is what mosey people are moving back for.

 

It's funny in a way, because like Martinbjulieb I would be thrilled every time I met someone new who seemed friendly and had what I would describe as 'friend potential' (by that I mean someone with a common interest or whose children were friends with my children or whatever), and then disappointed when offers of 'a cuppa and a chat' or to meet in town for a coffee were turned down. I really thought that it must be my fault, that I'd done something wrong or that I just wasn't likeable or something, and actually it completely undermined my self-esteem and social confidence. I slowly realised though, that I'd never had difficulty in making friends in the past. Since chatting to other returnees over the past few months it seems that this is one of the most common difficulties that people have.

 

The thing is that it has had an impact on my kids too. My eldest daughter has had the same best friend for six years, and on paper her mum and I should get on like a house on fire, we have lots of the same interests, hobbies, similar sense of humour etc. But for some reason, although she is friendly enough, there is some sort of barrier there. It's like there is a superficial layer of conviviality, but there is nothing underneath. We've had her friend here for countless play dates and sleepovers, but eldest has been invited over there maybe three or four times in six years. It is similar for my youngest daughter too. Although she is more of a social butterfly and tends to have a few friends on the go at school, we've had her friends here to play, but she hasn't ever been invited to a playdate elsewhere. Not even once, and she's just about to start year four. They are good kids too, so it isn't even like they aren't invited because they've a past history of playing up! It's almost like we are seen as 'other' or 'different' and that is enough of a reason not to take any friendships further.

 

Of course I have no idea if we'll make new friends when we return to the UK (and after all that is only a small part of the reasons for our return), but past experience tells me that it shouldn't be a problem. And if it is, then we've got eight years worth of experience at being 'Billy no mates'!

[Wa7]

We have our visa 189 and it's been validated.

We just can't decide whether to go or not. We have 3 kids all under 4 and a nice house in a nice Village. But just feel like the lifestyle here doesn't suit us as in none of our friends want to socialise as families they still just want their nights out on the p*ss. We have absolutely no family help so have never had a babysitter and never had any time alone from the kids. We find it a bit lonely and would love a lifestyle where we socialise as a family with other families.

Problem with Oz is we would definitely have a lot less money. A similar type house would be about twice the price.

If we stay in UK we could afford nice holidays and husband could work part time.

What are your thoughts? Is OZ worth the sacrifice of financial security? Is it worth the gamble? Or is the quality of life I'm yearning perhaps right in front me just needing some adjustments?

 

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Your last line says it all. Some adjustments and there you go. Who are these families you will be socialising with in Aus??. Unfortunately I can only echo what has been stated earlier regarding the social side of life here, we " know " plenty of people but we are not what I class as friends, a very private existence is the norm here. I have both uk and in law Aus family here and even they with there 40+yrs here don't have what I class as "real friends" they just know people in my opinion, so it's not just a you've only been here 5 minutes thing, it may never happen...............but in saying this you have an opportunity to do something that most don't. Hindsight don't you just love it. Best wishes.

[flag of convenience]

Most kids will adapt to the country they find themselves in. Parents not necessary so well. Saying that I crossed paths with a number if migrant young people from Australia, who found London far more compassionate to their direction in life and found Australia 'wanting'. A long time ago, but I wonder if much has changed?

 

I would always say there are plenty of places 'more open' on a human and personal level than Australia. My own personal opinion obviously, but I consider myself having a certain amount of ' insight' into the matter, perhaps not so readily available to some.

[Parley]

My experience as a parent is you will get that sort of interaction you are looking for when your kids start at school.

Usually adults can meet and become friendly due to their kids friend groups or extra curricular activities like sport or dancing.

 

It should happen in either country but you obviously have to be open to it.

[calNgary]

We moved here with 2 young children and met lots of friends, mainly parents of other kids or work collegues, if you make the effort to smile and say hello,most will return the friendship, walk around with a sour face telling aussies how much better things were in the UK and you may not get the reception you want. To an extent it is what you make it. You will face hurdles, its up to you if you jump them and carry on or book a flight back home as you dont feel its worth it. FWIW i would have happily booked that flight my first year here ,i just thank my lucky stars my hubby didnt cave in to my tantrums and i gave it more time.

 

One big thing to remember is you wont be able to move here and pick up the lifestyle you had straight away. If the big house, fancy car and holidays are important to you ,you could be setting yourself up for fall. Migrating is like starting back at the bottom of the ladder and you have to put in the effort to climb it, the more effort the further you climb, or at least thats what myself and a few other migrants im friendly with found when we moved. Those who hop off a plane finance themselves up with the flash car and Mc Mansion tend not to last very long here. Its similar job wise, you can be a high flying exec but when you move your still that migrant who can talk the talk ,you need to proove you can walk the walk before some employers will take you seriously and pay you the good money.

 

Australia, or at least QLD that i have experience of, is certainly more family orientated than the UK and great for kids,although the weather helps with that to an extent. There is so much to do and see for very little cost, regular free events held by the council's and some fantastic parks and play areas. We have found it a great place to raise our children, one who is now 18 the other 13.

 

Cal x

[LKC]

We moved here with 2 young children and met lots of friends, mainly parents of other kids or work collegues, if you make the effort to smile and say hello,most will return the friendship, walk around with a sour face telling aussies how much better things were in the UK and you may not get the reception you want. To an extent it is what you make it. You will face hurdles, its up to you if you jump them and carry on or book a flight back home as you dont feel its worth it. FWIW i would have happily booked that flight my first year here ,i just thank my lucky stars my hubby didnt cave in to my tantrums and i gave it more time.

 

One big thing to remember is you wont be able to move here and pick up the lifestyle you had straight away. If the big house, fancy car and holidays are important to you ,you could be setting yourself up for fall. Migrating is like starting back at the bottom of the ladder and you have to put in the effort to climb it, the more effort the further you climb, or at least thats what myself and a few other migrants im friendly with found when we moved. Those who hop off a plane finance themselves up with the flash car and Mc Mansion tend not to last very long here. Its similar job wise, you can be a high flying exec but when you move your still that migrant who can talk the talk ,you need to proove you can walk the walk before some employers will take you seriously and pay you the good money.

 

Australia, or at least QLD that i have experience of, is certainly more family orientated than the UK and great for kids,although the weather helps with that to an extent. There is so much to do and see for very little cost, regular free events held by the council's and some fantastic parks and play areas. We have found it a great place to raise our children, one who is now 18 the other 13.

 

Cal x

 

We haven't found this to be the case at all. People were friendly enough to start with, but friendships just haven't developed, no matter how hard we've tried. The constant rejection and excuses become completely disheartening and demoralising after a while. I can't really put my finger on why friendships haven't worked, they just haven't. As I said in a previous post, maybe it is because we chose to live in a 'mostly Aussie' area where there aren't many other migrants around rather than in an area where British migrants are more common. Perhaps we're seen with the same disdain that people often view migrants. I just don't know. And in our case it isn't because we've ever walked around 'with a sour face telling Aussies how much better things were in the UK', as you'd know if you've ever read any of my posts about Australia prior to September/October or so.

 

We genuinely and honestly LOVE Australia, and we wish we could've made it work. But it didn't, the cons now outweigh the pros, so we're off to pastures new. We thought about trying a different area of Australia (or of Sydney), but really the lack of friends thing is only part of the story. Increasingly elderly parents, our desire to show the kids what it is like to live in another country (because they really only know Australia), too expensive living costs and many more things, all have just tipped the balance. We aren't moving because we don't like it here and we feel pushed. We're moving on because the pull of the UK is stronger.

Edited December 31, 2016 by LKC

[Martinbjulieb]

Well I can definitely say we gave it our all and made every effort to make friends. We viewed our move as our forever home, selling up our home, transferring our pensions etc. But it didn't work out for us unfortunately. We tried and now it is time to move on.

 

 

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[Martinbjulieb]

We haven't found this to be the case at all. People were friendly enough to start with, but friendships just haven't developed, no matter how hard we've tried. The constant rejection and excuses become completely disheartening and demoralising after a while. I can't really put my finger on why friendships haven't worked, they just haven't. As I said in a previous post, maybe it is because we chose to live in a 'mostly Aussie' area where there aren't many other migrants around rather than in an area where British migrants are more common. Perhaps we're seen with the same disdain that people often view migrants. I just don't know. And in our case it isn't because we've ever walked around 'with a sour face telling Aussies how much better things were in the UK', as you'd know if you've ever read any of my posts about Australia prior to September/October or so.

 

We genuinely and honestly LOVE Australia, and we wish we could've made it work. But it didn't, the cons now outweigh the pros, so we're off to pastures new. We thought about trying a different area of Australia (or of Sydney), but really the lack of friends thing is only part of the story. Increasingly elderly parents, our desire to show the kids what it is like to live in another country (because they really only know Australia), too expensive living costs and many more things, all have just tipped the balance. We aren't moving because we don't like it here and we feel pushed. We're moving on because the pull of the UK is stronger.

 

In the absence of the like button. "LIKE"

 

 

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[Guest]

We haven't found this to be the case at all. People were friendly enough to start with, but friendships just haven't developed, no matter how hard we've tried. The constant rejection and excuses become completely disheartening and demoralising after a while. I can't really put my finger on why friendships haven't worked, they just haven't. As I said in a previous post, maybe it is because we chose to live in a 'mostly Aussie' area where there aren't many other migrants around rather than in an area where British migrants are more common. Perhaps we're seen with the same disdain that people often view migrants. I just don't know. And in our case it isn't because we've ever walked around 'with a sour face telling Aussies how much better things were in the UK', as you'd know if you've ever read any of my posts about Australia prior to September/October or so.

 

We genuinely and honestly LOVE Australia, and we wish we could've made it work. But it didn't, the cons now outweigh the pros, so we're off to pastures new. We thought about trying a different area of Australia (or of Sydney), but really the lack of friends thing is only part of the story. Increasingly elderly parents, our desire to show the kids what it is like to live in another country (because they really only know Australia), too expensive living costs and many more things, all have just tipped the balance. We aren't moving because we don't like it here and we feel pushed. We're moving on because the pull of the UK is stronger.

 

This is an interesting article. Honestly, I think its not confined to migrants but to people as they get older. Only perhaps most people don't realise it as they don't migrate nor move away to discover and have to try to make new friends.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/15/fashion/the-challenge-of-making-friends-as-an-adult.html

 

I've moved around in my life and it was far easier to make friends in my 20's than it has been in my 30's and 40's. And I was in the UK for a chunk of my 30's and friendships didn't just happen magically or get further than the odd catch up a couple of times a year, if that. And its the same here. I accept most friendships I form now are not at the deeper and more meaningful level of friendships formed when studying or in my 20's and single or before I married. But I do have a few good ones that have developed over the years and I think they have legs to continue longer term but I don't have the same expectations for them as I did similar friendships in my 20's. I don't expect or hope to see these people a few times a week or to chat a few times on the phone or text lots as I might have done years ago. I know that life is such that I get to see them far less, communicate less but when we do catch up its good and we enjoy our time together, be that once a month or every couple of months. Other friends I don't have issue with it not being such a close friendship or one that is less meaningful to them or me for whatever reason. Every now and again I do connect with a person I really hit it off with and who I can see a bit more often but it takes a lot of effort on both our parts to ensure we meet up on a regular basis and then it doesn't always happen as LIFE happens, kids get ill, work gets in the way or one of us is flat out busy when the other is not.

 

People say how as they get older friendships take more work, I think that is true. And that when they then connect with friends they have known for years, good friends, it just flows and is like it always was. I think that is normal for most tbh. I have the same with those few friends from my teens and early 20's, I don't see them for years but when I do, we just pick up where we left off. Its normal but you can't live your life for those friendships as most of the time, life just takes you in different directions and you don't get to spend time together as you might once have done. Unless you are really lucky and live in the same town and have lives where your paths cross often.

 

The thing that makes the difference I think is how we as individuals cope with these changes in friendship forming and how we perceive them and adapt. And if it has an overly negative impact it can be a struggle. Those that are more self sufficient or not minding perhaps cope better?

 

Just thoughts

Edited December 31, 2016 by Guest
eta

[LKC]

This is an interesting article. Honestly, I think its not confined to migrants but to people as they get older. Only perhaps most people don't realise it as they don't migrate nor move away to discover and have to try to make new friends.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/15/fashion/the-challenge-of-making-friends-as-an-adult.html

 

I've moved around in my life and it was far easier to make friends in my 20's than it has been in my 30's and 40's. And I was in the UK for a chunk of my 30's and friendships didn't just happen magically or get further than the odd catch up a couple of times a year, if that. And its the same here. I accept most friendships I form now are not at the deeper and more meaningful level of friendships formed when studying or in my 20's and single or before I married. But I do have a few good ones that have developed over the years and I think they have legs to continue longer term but I don't have the same expectations for them as I did similar friendships in my 20's. I don't expect or hope to see these people a few times a week or to chat a few times on the phone or text lots as I might have done years ago. I know that life is such that I get to see them far less, communicate less but when we do catch up its good and we enjoy our time together, be that once a month or every couple of months. Other friends I don't have issue with it not being such a close friendship or one that is less meaningful to them or me for whatever reason. Every now and again I do connect with a person I really hit it off with and who I can see a bit more often but it takes a lot of effort on both our parts to ensure we meet up on a regular basis and then it doesn't always happen as LIFE happens, kids get ill, work gets in the way or one of us is flat out busy when the other is not.

 

People say how as they get older friendships take more work, I think that is true. And that when they then connect with friends they have known for years, good friends, it just flows and is like it always was. I think that is normal for most tbh. I have the same with those few friends from my teens and early 20's, I don't see them for years but when I do, we just pick up where we left off. Its normal but you can't live your life for those friendships as most of the time, life just takes you in different directions and you don't get to spend time together as you might once have done. Unless you are really lucky and live in the same town and have lives where your paths cross often.

 

The thing that makes the difference I think is how we as individuals cope with these changes in friendship forming and how we perceive them and adapt. And if it has an overly negative impact it can be a struggle. Those that are more self sufficient or not minding perhaps cope better?

 

Just thoughts

 

That's actually an pretty interesting article, so thank you for sharing it. There is probably quite a bit of truth to it. If I think about the two friends I have here, the Slovak I have long boozy Friday afternoons with, the kids play in the garden whilst we drink wine and talk about pretty much everything and anything from politics to history to philosophy and ordinary things such as the things that are going on at the schools (different aged kids, in different schools). OH knows that if I've gone there after school he is to cycle to her house because I'll have had a drop or two too much wine to drive home. My American friend has an autistic child (again different ages to my kids) so we have that in common, plus we have the same sense of humour. We walk around the neighbourhood for fitness together, and talk and have a laugh, she is just so easy to get on with. Interestingly, although she is extremely confident herself (she used to work as a journalist), she has had the same difficulties in making good friends, and admitted to me that she basically plays up to the confident American stereotype and just forces her friendship on people until they eventually give in. She didn't have to do that with me, we just 'clicked' from the first time we met.

 

But, as I say, that is really only a small part of our moving back story, it's just one that perhaps needs highlighting given the original post and the OP's thoughts about why they might move here. I would just caution agains putting yourself in a financially difficult situation just because you think you might make more friends. It doesn't always happen and it would be awful if it didn't and they found that they couldn't afford to move on.

[calNgary]

We haven't found this to be the case at all. People were friendly enough to start with, but friendships just haven't developed, no matter how hard we've tried. The constant rejection and excuses become completely disheartening and demoralising after a while. I can't really put my finger on why friendships haven't worked, they just haven't. As I said in a previous post, maybe it is because we chose to live in a 'mostly Aussie' area where there aren't many other migrants around rather than in an area where British migrants are more common. Perhaps we're seen with the same disdain that people often view migrants. I just don't know. And in our case it isn't because we've ever walked around 'with a sour face telling Aussies how much better things were in the UK', as you'd know if you've ever read any of my posts about Australia prior to September/October or so.

 

We genuinely and honestly LOVE Australia, and we wish we could've made it work. But it didn't, the cons now outweigh the pros, so we're off to pastures new. We thought about trying a different area of Australia (or of Sydney), but really the lack of friends thing is only part of the story. Increasingly elderly parents, our desire to show the kids what it is like to live in another country (because they really only know Australia), too expensive living costs and many more things, all have just tipped the balance. We aren't moving because we don't like it here and we feel pushed. We're moving on because the pull of the UK is stronger.

 

But to me, this shows why its different for everyone and one size doesnt fit all. We dont live in an area influxed with uk migrants, personally i could think of nothing worse! lol... My best friend is Australian, another good friend originally from Fiji and one from Italy, however i found way back when i went i used to go to a few of the pommy meets lots of the people were very false and more interested in what you do and what you earn, hence i dont socialise now with any of them really. Dont get me wrong, not everyone we have met and struck up friendships with are still friends, i too have experienced the same 'not welcome' feeling from some, i just move on and dont waste anymore time on them. Thankfully the handful of 'good' friends we do have ,understand we have no extended family here and are happy to babysit or have the kds for sleepovers if hubby and i want some time out, of course it works both ways and we have their kids back here. It just shows what works for one, doesnt always work for another.

 

Lots of luck back in the UK and i hope it all works out for you.

Cal x

[Que Sera Sera]

Making friends is a personal thing and I firmly believe has no relevance on where you live. Define friendship anyway. What one person describes as a friend another might say acquaintance or even sticky big! . If your open to friendships and are a friendly person you'll make friends no matter where you go. If your looking for a replacement within months or even a few years to the friendships you've developed over decades then of course your chasing a dream. Especially if you feel the amount of friends you have is was defines you.

[LKC]

But to me, this shows why its different for everyone and one size doesnt fit all. We dont live in an area influxed with uk migrants, personally i could think of nothing worse! lol... My best friend is Australian, another good friend originally from Fiji and one from Italy, however i found way back when i went i used to go to a few of the pommy meets lots of the people were very false and more interested in what you do and what you earn, hence i dont socialise now with any of them really. Dont get me wrong, not everyone we have met and struck up friendships with are still friends, i too have experienced the same 'not welcome' feeling from some, i just move on and dont waste anymore time on them. Thankfully the handful of 'good' friends we do have ,understand we have no extended family here and are happy to babysit or have the kds for sleepovers if hubby and i want some time out, of course it works both ways and we have their kids back here. It just shows what works for one, doesnt always work for another.

 

Lots of luck back in the UK and i hope it all works out for you.

Cal x

 

Thanks Cal, I am hopeful that we will find our place in the UK. I've always loved reading your posts, and in fact until recently I think we both had a very positive assessment of Australia. It is just now that we have been tipped over the edge by some things that have happened to us.

 

I think your post illustrates the difference between the people you have met to the people we have met in Sydney, and maybe that is a reflection of the area we chose. I have babysat, done sleepovers and playdates, got up earlier than I needed to so that I could collect other peoples kids to take to school when they've needed to be early, and have generally done a whole heap of running around for people, including shopping and pharmacy runs when people are sick, waiting behind at school if they were late to collect their kids and driving them and their kids home in the rain etc. I even did some work on the website for one of the mums from school, because she couldn't afford to pay for someone to do it. None of this has been reciprocated. And in fact these women have excluded me from things that they have done together.

 

I think I'm just tired of being treated like rubbish and in combination with our other reasons for moving back, the balance has been tipped in favour of the UK.

[VERYSTORMY]

We're in the same position - three kids, just got our 189 visa, but a comfortable lifestyle, nice house and good income in the UK. The reality of what we're doing is starting to kick in...

 

But if we chicken out now, we will always look back and wonder 'what if'? If we don't try, we will never know. And when it's too late to even try, what then? Regrets and recriminations for evermore?

 

So we will go for it, make the best of it and aim to at least stick it out for long enough to get citizenship. Then if it goes wrong, at least we will all always have the opportunity to go back and try again if we feel so inclined. Or even try New Zealand...!

 

Or we may just find that Dorothy was right all along and there really is no place like home - in which case we will appreciate it all the more when we get back! Go on - take your little kids on an adventure before you lose them to the school system.

 

There are huge risks though and people need to understand them as I don't think many actually do think enough of the "what if".

 

We spent 8 years in Oz and returned in March. But it has meant we are starting again from scratch. Aged 47, we landed with a suitcase each and a few boxes of personal items being shipped. But effectively nothing. We will hopefully be on the property ladder this year, but, with a significant mortgage against if we had never moved we would be mortgage free by now.

[Bungo]

Thanks Cal, I am hopeful that we will find our place in the UK. I've always loved reading your posts, and in fact until recently I think we both had a very positive assessment of Australia. It is just now that we have been tipped over the edge by some things that have happened to us.

 

I think your post illustrates the difference between the people you have met to the people we have met in Sydney, and maybe that is a reflection of the area we chose. I have babysat, done sleepovers and playdates, got up earlier than I needed to so that I could collect other peoples kids to take to school when they've needed to be early, and have generally done a whole heap of running around for people, including shopping and pharmacy runs when people are sick, waiting behind at school if they were late to collect their kids and driving them and their kids home in the rain etc. I even did some work on the website for one of the mums from school, because she couldn't afford to pay for someone to do it. None of this has been reciprocated. And in fact these women have excluded me from things that they have done together.

 

I think I'm just tired of being treated like rubbish and in combination with our other reasons for moving back, the balance has been tipped in favour of the UK.

 

I think these different experiences go back to the point that moving to Australia to better a social circle is a flawed piece of thinking. Some people will find a nice group, others won't, same as in UK.

 

As to your own experience, well that is not good at all, no wonder you are fed up with it. I didn't experience anything like that, I just didn't make any friends. It was all me though, I didn't try and nobody tried with me. I think the age article posted earlier is more telling of my situation, being 40 when we moved.

[LKC]

I think these different experiences go back to the point that moving to Australia to better a social circle is a flawed piece of thinking. Some people will find a nice group, others won't, same as in UK.

 

As to your own experience, well that is not good at all, no wonder you are fed up with it. I didn't experience anything like that, I just didn't make any friends. It was all me though, I didn't try and nobody tried with me. I think the age article posted earlier is more telling of my situation, being 40 when we moved.

 

Exactly as per the OP. We didn't move for that reason, just because OH had been given the opportunity and we could, but I wouldn't have moved for friends.

 

I was 33 when we moved here, and I am 41 now. Maybe if I'd been older when we came I'd have cared less, but I feel like I've spent the last eight years trying to make people like me. I can't be bothered with it any more, but I feel that I need to make a fresh start and get away from these people. We did consider elsewhere in Aus/Syd, but with ageing parents we feel we want to be in the UK.

[Bound4Tassie]

This is an interesting article. Honestly, I think its not confined to migrants but to people as they get older. Only perhaps most people don't realise it as they don't migrate nor move away to discover and have to try to make new friends.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/15/fashion/the-challenge-of-making-friends-as-an-adult.html

 

I've moved around in my life and it was far easier to make friends in my 20's than it has been in my 30's and 40's. And I was in the UK for a chunk of my 30's and friendships didn't just happen magically or get further than the odd catch up a couple of times a year, if that. And its the same here. I accept most friendships I form now are not at the deeper and more meaningful level of friendships formed when studying or in my 20's and single or before I married. But I do have a few good ones that have developed over the years and I think they have legs to continue longer term but I don't have the same expectations for them as I did similar friendships in my 20's. I don't expect or hope to see these people a few times a week or to chat a few times on the phone or text lots as I might have done years ago. I know that life is such that I get to see them far less, communicate less but when we do catch up its good and we enjoy our time together, be that once a month or every couple of months. Other friends I don't have issue with it not being such a close friendship or one that is less meaningful to them or me for whatever reason. Every now and again I do connect with a person I really hit it off with and who I can see a bit more often but it takes a lot of effort on both our parts to ensure we meet up on a regular basis and then it doesn't always happen as LIFE happens, kids get ill, work gets in the way or one of us is flat out busy when the other is not.

 

People say how as they get older friendships take more work, I think that is true. And that when they then connect with friends they have known for years, good friends, it just flows and is like it always was. I think that is normal for most tbh. I have the same with those few friends from my teens and early 20's, I don't see them for years but when I do, we just pick up where we left off. Its normal but you can't live your life for those friendships as most of the time, life just takes you in different directions and you don't get to spend time together as you might once have done. Unless you are really lucky and live in the same town and have lives where your paths cross often.

 

The thing that makes the difference I think is how we as individuals cope with these changes in friendship forming and how we perceive them and adapt. And if it has an overly negative impact it can be a struggle. Those that are more self sufficient or not minding perhaps cope better?

 

Just thoughts

 

I think that's an extremely fair comment! I'd not thought about it in that context but I agree entirely! "Like"

[Bound4Tassie]

Thanks Cal, I am hopeful that we will find our place in the UK. I've always loved reading your posts, and in fact until recently I think we both had a very positive assessment of Australia. It is just now that we have been tipped over the edge by some things that have happened to us.

 

I think your post illustrates the difference between the people you have met to the people we have met in Sydney, and maybe that is a reflection of the area we chose. I have babysat, done sleepovers and playdates, got up earlier than I needed to so that I could collect other peoples kids to take to school when they've needed to be early, and have generally done a whole heap of running around for people, including shopping and pharmacy runs when people are sick, waiting behind at school if they were late to collect their kids and driving them and their kids home in the rain etc. I even did some work on the website for one of the mums from school, because she couldn't afford to pay for someone to do it. None of this has been reciprocated. And in fact these women have excluded me from things that they have done together.

 

I think I'm just tired of being treated like rubbish and in combination with our other reasons for moving back, the balance has been tipped in favour of the UK.

 

I definitely feel generally Aussies ( and Americans) are more likely to come out and ask you to help them. As reserved Brits we might find it a bit brash . Poms are more likely to wait to be asked if we need help. The Aussies are likely to help if asked and probably expect to be asked. A generalisation I know .....my Aussie husband for example couldn't have more "Great British reserve " if he tried!! Far too polite!

[bunbury61]

I personally wouldn't risk the move unless you can afford to do it as a short term adventure. If you are hoping to make new friends I think you will be disappointed. We have lived here 9 years and I can honestly say that I have made only one friend, and my husband none! I totally agree with LKC - quote below.

people can be very insular here.

 

I remember (with some embarrassment now) how thrilled I would be if I managed to talk to someone at a park where I would take the kids, only to be very disappointed when I realised that a friendship was not going to be forthcoming!

 

Yes, of course I know a few mums from school etc, but it is all very superficial and they are usually only interested in you for what they can get, like LKC says below.

 

We are now in the process of moving back before our children get too much older.

Good luck with your decision, but I think what you have is what mosey people are moving back for.

 

Of course you will make friends ...i have just spoken to 4 different old ladies ,whilst I was Sa outside morrisons waiting for my wife .

People generally talk to each other ,which is one of the pluses about being here

[bunbury61]

Of course you will make friends ...i have just spoken to 4 different old ladies ,whilst I was Sa outside morrisons waiting for my wife .

People generally talk to each other ,which is one of the pluses about being here

 

P.s I did have the dog with me though ...and he is a very handsome boy

[Beaty]

Of course you will make friends ...i have just spoken to 4 different old ladies ,whilst I was Sa outside morrisons waiting for my wife .

People generally talk to each other ,which is one of the pluses about being here ?

 

I agree. You need to work at 'making friends' for God's sake. If you are low on confidence or not willing to give your time and put in 'relationship building groundworks' - then you won't make progress.

 

There is this notion on here that Australia is a country where it's 'hard to make new friends'. I don't know how such a sweeping generalisation can be true. Unless the migration process favours the shy, timid, snowflake types. You can make friends anywhere folks once you know how and are willing to put the time in. If you don't know 'how' or not willing to invest time in building same, well, you've got a problem.

 

B