Is there lots of work in Perth?

[flag of convenience]

Although the downturn in WA started in the mining/gas/oil arena, it is having a knock-on effect right down the line, as far as I can see. All those high earning FIFO bods who have lost their jobs have either returned to the eastern states or their country of origin, gone back to working in the metro area, or are still unemployed. Basic economics stemming from that means there is less money in the community to spend, and so people will think twice about buying a new house, car, boat, furniture, electrical goods, taking a holiday, removing their children from private education, not going out to eat as often, having less coffees out, leaving it a few weeks longer between haircuts, not buying as many clothes.... and on and on. The outcome is that people who run businesses in everything from manufacturing to hospitality, are finding their turnover is shrinking and they lay off staff. On a drive through Canning Vale industrial area the other day I noticed a few large premises empty and now up for lease.... in my local area there are empty shops, cafes, small manufacturing units. Also there are less people out and about in the shops spending, so I assume people are becoming more careful about how they part with their money.

 

We arrived in Perth in 1991, straight into a recession, and it seems to me that we are probably almost back to the same situation. In some ways though Perth has to take some of the blame for this as business owners have been incredibly greedy with the stupid prices they have been charging for years.... all because of the mining boom and catering for those with inflated incomes. Perhaps prices will become more realistic now, who knows.

 

Bottom line though is that it is getting harder to get work in Perth. There has always been a mentality of it is who you know in Perth, and not what you know, that will get you a job, and that has never been more evident than now.

 

One of those rare moments where opposing minds meet in full agreement.

[newjez]

Very much worse than 92. Prices were still cheap or at least affordable. Perth was no where near the league of most expensive world cities. Jobs were hard for a few years, interest rates were high but rents were low. (as were house prices)Centre Link payments covered largely the cost of living for those requiring it.

There is no end in sight with this recession. Prices remain outrageously high. The onus is now on restructuring. 51,000 jobs have gone from full time employment to be replaced by part time positions.

Australia finds itself rather clueless as how to react labouring under the false belief that a massive increase in population will arrest the decline, maintain a ludicrous house price bubble and somehow a service sector will maintain living conditions.

 

 

Sounds like they need a healthy dose of deflation. Although how that will transpose into growth I don't know.

[Paul1Perth]

Let's face it it's a worldwide problem that's been in the making for the last 20 years or so. Productivity, globalisation, technology replacing workers, profit margins expected to be higher every year, more and more privatisation of service industries where profit for shareholders and bonuses for well paid executives become the driver. All this has led to less labour being needed, rich getting richer, less and less blue collar jobs and it's only going to get worse as technology and robotics takes over.

We were very lucky with the mining and oil and gas in Aus. Labour intensive industries but with big profits so they could afford to employ a lot of people and pay them well and still make good profits.

As prices fall we are already seeing autonomous mines with robotic equipment being driven from an office in Perth. What's next? Driverless trains probably, judging by a project I've been working on recently.

Perth is still probably a place that will be OK. Not too overpopulated, iron ore price didn't drop anywhere near as much as "experts" predicted, so a few miners are hiring again. Lot's of people left WA or lost their FIFO job, less people able to get visas as we don't need that many now.

I think Perth and WA will pull through fine.

[flag of convenience]

Sounds like they need a healthy dose of deflation. Although how that will transpose into growth I don't know.

 

Well the powers that be would of course prefer inflation to maintain the house obscenity. Deflation is something we can learn from Japan, which experienced a very long run of it from last century until recently and hardly on fire even now.

 

Perhaps what is needed is a complete overhaul of the economic system and the focus on growth?

[flag of convenience]

Let's face it it's a worldwide problem that's been in the making for the last 20 years or so. Productivity, globalisation, technology replacing workers, profit margins expected to be higher every year, more and more privatisation of service industries where profit for shareholders and bonuses for well paid executives become the driver. All this has led to less labour being needed, rich getting richer, less and less blue collar jobs and it's only going to get worse as technology and robotics takes over.

We were very lucky with the mining and oil and gas in Aus. Labour intensive industries but with big profits so they could afford to employ a lot of people and pay them well and still make good profits.

As prices fall we are already seeing autonomous mines with robotic equipment being driven from an office in Perth. What's next? Driverless trains probably, judging by a project I've been working on recently.

Perth is still probably a place that will be OK. Not too overpopulated, iron ore price didn't drop anywhere near as much as "experts" predicted, so a few miners are hiring again. Lot's of people left WA or lost their FIFO job, less people able to get visas as we don't need that many now.

I think Perth and WA will pull through fine.

 

Little sign of your optimism shining through. Rather the opposite. Nothing at all to suggest otherwise. If anything being under played for obvious reasons. There has been a whole restructuring process in place in areas with nothing at all to do with the resource industry. This has hurt a lot as well as creating rather unpleasant work places with varying degrees of hostility in areas and others seeking ' revenge' for want of another word for the unfairness of it all.

 

I don't recall another time when government has so actively sought to lower conditions as well as attempt to terminate whole areas of our welfare state. Nor another time when casual labour was encouraged to flock to these shores to compete with locals nor a care about the building hostility in large sections of the community into allowing it to happen.

 

The ' not too many people' is not part of the desire of government. Population Ponzi is what is keeping growth and housing going over east. Perth was until two years back the fastest growing population in Australia. How the mighty have fallen. Melbourne now has that position.

 

I don't expect Perth will crumble into a pile of rubble either. Just a return to its more normal branch office status, while the real stuff is done in Sydney. I do wonder about Melbourne though. Just how can such growth be sustained in that city?

[Paul1Perth]

Little sign of your optimism shining through. Rather the opposite. Nothing at all to suggest otherwise. If anything being under played for obvious reasons. There has been a whole restructuring process in place in areas with nothing at all to do with the resource industry. This has hurt a lot as well as creating rather unpleasant work places with varying degrees of hostility in areas and others seeking ' revenge' for want of another word for the unfairness of it all.

 

I don't recall another time when government has so actively sought to lower conditions as well as attempt to terminate whole areas of our welfare state. Nor another time when casual labour was encouraged to flock to these shores to compete with locals nor a care about the building hostility in large sections of the community into allowing it to happen.

 

The ' not too many people' is not part of the desire of government. Population Ponzi is what is keeping growth and housing going over east. Perth was until two years back the fastest growing population in Australia. How the mighty have fallen. Melbourne now has that position.

 

I don't expect Perth will crumble into a pile of rubble either. Just a return to its more normal branch office status, while the real stuff is done in Sydney. I do wonder about Melbourne though. Just how can such growth be sustained in that city?

I'm still optimistic flag. There are some people that will always manage to get work, make a decent living, whatever the situation where they live. Then there are others who will just sit back and moan, find excuses about lack of training, opportunity, whatever. It's always someone elses fault they don't have work on don't make enough.

[newjez]

I'm still optimistic flag. There are some people that will always manage to get work, make a decent living, whatever the situation where they live. Then there are others who will just sit back and moan, find excuses about lack of training, opportunity, whatever. It's always someone elses fault they don't have work on don't make enough.

 

 

No, I think that's a bullshit argument that may apply for the good times for a few bludgers but doesn't apply during a recession.

 

I put forward very stormy as exhibit A.

 

I really don't think anyone could have tried harder than him, and I doubt there are many that are as experienced as finding work.

Edited September 30, 2016 by newjez

[flag of convenience]

I'm still optimistic flag. There are some people that will always manage to get work, make a decent living, whatever the situation where they live. Then there are others who will just sit back and moan, find excuses about lack of training, opportunity, whatever. It's always someone elses fault they don't have work on don't make enough.

 

I'm afraid it has little to do with personal optimism. Obviously some continue to do okay during a recession. Just far less. When people reign in spending business struggles. No point pointing the finger either as it is economic conditions calling the shots, not what somebody trained in. In fact educated people often most impacted as less needed. But same can apply to working jobs like tradies and a host of others.

[flag of convenience]

No, I think that's a bullshit argument that may apply for the good times for a few bludgers but doesn't apply during a recession.

 

I put forward very stormy as exhibit A.

 

I really don't think anyone could have tried harder than him, and I doubt there are many that are as experienced as finding work.

 

It's an argument any number still continue to use though. Of course it's bullshit. Perth is anything but an easy place to get employment, especially so without connections, with the added likelihood that things are going to get a whole lot worse before better.

[Parley]

Some people do seem to be a Reverse Midas for whatever reason though.

No idea why.

[Rossmoyne]

Well the powers that be would of course prefer inflation to maintain the house obscenity. Deflation is something we can learn from Japan, which experienced a very long run of it from last century until recently and hardly on fire even now.

 

Perhaps what is needed is a complete overhaul of the economic system and the focus on growth?

 

As you say Flag, for once we agree on something.

[Parley]

Deflation is very destructive.

You certainly do not want ongoing deflation.

[newjez]

Deflation is very destructive.

You certainly do not want ongoing deflation.

 

We have had deflation with computer equipment from day one. Seems to work. 'Why can't deflation work?

[benj1980]

It's an argument any number still continue to use though. Of course it's bullshit. Perth is anything but an easy place to get employment, especially so without connections, with the added likelihood that things are going to get a whole lot worse before better.

 

I do think it's occupation specific. VeryStormy I appreciate looked for a job for quite some time before moving back to the UK. But I know many Poms who have moved over and obtained jobs and guess what in the Mandurah area. We have friends who work in Perth and no problems with their job situations although the companies who they work for have reduced budgets, cutting sponsorships, CPD etc. My uncle who is in the mining game is out of work and has been for some time. I appreciate mining has a knock on effect but suggesting that it's all doom and gloom for all occupations isn't fair.

 

Perth certainly needs to look at other ways to become economically stable and have the infrastructure to do that, relying on mining has proven once again to be shortsighted despite short term gains. I would prefer to be optimistic although seeing house price drops it's clear that growth isn't coming any time soon. There are still jobs out there because people are still being employed, perhaps people are too qualified in an area to be taken seriously for a 'lower' role in a different sector.

[flag of convenience]

I do think it's occupation specific. VeryStormy I appreciate looked for a job for quite some time before moving back to the UK. But I know many Poms who have moved over and obtained jobs and guess what in the Mandurah area. We have friends who work in Perth and no problems with their job situations although the companies who they work for have reduced budgets, cutting sponsorships, CPD etc. My uncle who is in the mining game is out of work and has been for some time. I appreciate mining has a knock on effect but suggesting that it's all doom and gloom for all occupations isn't fair.

 

Perth certainly needs to look at other ways to become economically stable and have the infrastructure to do that, relying on mining has proven once again to be shortsighted despite short term gains. I would prefer to be optimistic although seeing house price drops it's clear that growth isn't coming any time soon. There are still jobs out there because people are still being employed, perhaps people are too qualified in an area to be taken seriously for a 'lower' role in a different sector.

 

I never claimed the entire place had ground to a halt. Of course some are still getting into employment. Others have witnessed a decline in employment conditions, if not unemployment as such. The market is poor. Hard to think what areas employment growth may be expanding. Debt collectors? Security? Surveillance? or on the cards for improved job prosects I suppose. In my area knowledge in the job market, it is nothing remotely related to the resource area but over subscribed and there have been reductions and yet they bring in overseas people to compete with fast declining roles.

 

The city you appear to be located in Mandurah has been an unemployment black stop for some time. As such seems rather close to home to me for you to have an insight into the difficulties around economic issues and employment.

[flag of convenience]

Deflation is very destructive.

You certainly do not want ongoing deflation.

 

Why can't the lowering of costs be viewed as positive. Allows more to partake. What makes inflation so great?

[benj1980]

I'm aware there is high unemployment in Mandurah it has been in all the media, but it hasn't really changed or effected anyone that I know Pom or otherwise. Likewise the people that I know who work in Perth, they can still go for a beer on a Friday no change. Maybe I'm just lucky (or they are to have me!) knowing only one person who has lost their job from the downturn. Maybe I'm still looking through rose tinted glasses and obviously I don't know average Joe's working conditions but I still see work being advertised. I don't doubt that it is harder to obtain a specific job at the moment and I wouldn't suggest coming over looking for mining work but good people can still get work.

 

I guess what im trying to say it's not all doom and gloom and although some people are finding it tough some of us seem to be thriving. Oh and it definitely helps having good contacts, you can guarantee everyone else is relying on theirs!

[newjez]

I'm aware there is high unemployment in Mandurah it has been in all the media, but it hasn't really changed or effected anyone that I know Pom or otherwise. Likewise the people that I know who work in Perth, they can still go for a beer on a Friday no change. Maybe I'm just lucky (or they are to have me!) knowing only one person who has lost their job from the downturn. Maybe I'm still looking through rose tinted glasses and obviously I don't know average Joe's working conditions but I still see work being advertised. I don't doubt that it is harder to obtain a specific job at the moment and I wouldn't suggest coming over looking for mining work but good people can still get work.

 

I guess what im trying to say it's not all doom and gloom and although some people are finding it tough some of us seem to be thriving. Oh and it definitely helps having good contacts, you can guarantee everyone else is relying on theirs!

 

 

Of course. It's generally much easier to go for a beer on a Friday after work during a recession as the beers cheaper and you don't get the crowds.

 

As Jeremy clarkson said, recessions are only a problem if you don't have a job. For everyone else, everything is cheaper and you don't have to queue.

Edited October 1, 2016 by newjez

[Parley]

Why can't the lowering of costs be viewed as positive. Allows more to partake. What makes inflation so great?

 

Because the economy grinds to a halt.

No one buys because they think it will be cheaper in 6 months.

Business stops investing. consumers stop buying.

 

It becomes a very destructive cycle.

 

The ideal is moderate inflation of 2 to 3 % per year.

[newjez]

Because the economy grinds to a halt.

No one buys because they think it will be cheaper in 6 months.

Business stops investing. consumers stop buying.

 

It becomes a very destructive cycle.

 

The ideal is moderate inflation of 2 to 3 % per year.

 

 

Has the computer industry or the phone industry ground to a halt?

 

All these things not only get cheaper, but they get better.

 

The problem is that debt doesn't get inflated away, and we may actually have to pay it back.

Edited October 1, 2016 by newjez

[Parley]

Have a read up on deflation and you should understand the problems it causes.

[newjez]

Have a read up on deflation and you should understand the problems it causes.

 

 

I understand the problem it causes.

 

But why does it work for the phone and it industry?

[Parley]

Because that is a fast moving technology space.

People are compelled to buy for new features at the same price.

 

It is different to buying the same mature product now if you think the same product will be cheaper in 6 months time.

 

Apple are very smart in making the masses think they need the latest features every year or 2.

[flag of convenience]

Because the economy grinds to a halt.

No one buys because they think it will be cheaper in 6 months.

Business stops investing. consumers stop buying.

 

It becomes a very destructive cycle.

 

The ideal is moderate inflation of 2 to 3 % per year.

 

Yes under normal circumstances but we are not living under those. Cheap money (debt) has fuelled an asset crisis that has blocked the normal approach to things like housing. As the numbers build up there will certainly be pressure to restore normalcy to the market.

In other words a bubble crash would suit a lot of business longer term as it would be built on wealth creation not debt.

[flag of convenience]

Because that is a fast moving technology space.

People are compelled to buy for new features at the same price.

 

It is different to buying the same mature product now if you think the same product will be cheaper in 6 months time.

 

Apple are very smart in making the masses think they need the latest features every year or 2.

 

Or could it just be that the masses are a little dim and easily convinced, in a ' must have' consumer society?