Gbye grey sky Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 Is it appropriate for an unelected PM to invoke Article 50 and lead the Brexit negotiations or should that PM have a mandate on how to approach those negotiations. There is every chance that those who voted Leave are not going to be given what they thought they would get by voting Leave in the referendum. All party leaders would need to set out their negotiating position and explain what they will do if no agreement can be reached on key issues. The people can then elect the leader and party who they feel will best protect their interests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 No I think the PM should morally be Boris Johnson. The Leave campaign won and he is the defacto leader for Leave within the Conservative party. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gbye grey sky Posted June 27, 2016 Author Share Posted June 27, 2016 No I think the PM should morally be Boris Johnson. The Leave campaign won and he is the defacto leader for Leave within the Conservative party. Assuming that he stands and is voted in by the party. Is he (or any other de facto leader) then free to make any agreement he sees fit to make in your view? A big call for an elected PM let alone an unelected one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith and Linda Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 The Government was voted in on the back of a promised referendum and not on any particular outcome of such. Leadership change has often occurred part way through a term with no general election needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith and Linda Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 Assuming that he stands and is voted in by the party. Is he (or any other de facto leader) then free to make any agreement he sees fit to make in your view? A big call for an elected PM let alone an unelected one. Are PM's elected? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newjez Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 Is it appropriate for an unelected PM to invoke Article 50 and lead the Brexit negotiations or should that PM have a mandate on how to approach those negotiations. There is every chance that those who voted Leave are not going to be given what they thought they would get by voting Leave in the referendum. All party leaders would need to set out their negotiating position and explain what they will do if no agreement can be reached on key issues. The people can then elect the leader and party who they feel will best protect their interests. Yes and no. I'm not sure how that would work, as this goes accross party lines. I think possibility we need to have a vote to establish a working party that can negotiate our leave, which differs from who governs us. I imagine ukip have very different visions to others. But you might get a range of views. Maybe this could work. At least we would know how the population wants to approach this. Hard-line or softly softly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gbye grey sky Posted June 27, 2016 Author Share Posted June 27, 2016 The Government was voted in on the back of a promised referendum and not on any particular outcome of such. Leadership change has often occurred part way through a term with no general election needed. Ok. So you are relaxed about the Tories appointing someone to negotiate Brexit and content to accept whatever terms agreed. Just interested if that is a view widely shared. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzukiscottie Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 Are PM's elected? They are in their own constituency. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 No I think the PM should morally be Boris Johnson. The Leave campaign won and he is the defacto leader for Leave within the Conservative party. I doubt if Boris wants to be the man who steered Britain out of Europe. For all his huff and puff it is all about self interest with Boris. Always has been. Boris's city mates, will be well peeved off at him. Hence his claim, no hurry to leave on learning of victory. Not to say his lack of gloating (so unlike Boris) and silence since. I would hazard a guess as wrote before. Not really the result Boris wanted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 Ok. So you are relaxed about the Tories appointing someone to negotiate Brexit and content to accept whatever terms agreed. Just interested if that is a view widely shared. I suspect the supporters of voting out, thought little about the consequences much as the leaders of the Out campaign. What they thought would happen likely won't anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gbye grey sky Posted June 27, 2016 Author Share Posted June 27, 2016 I suspect the supporters of voting out, thought little about the consequences much as the leaders of the Out campaign. What they thought would happen likely won't anyway. So the whole tone needs to change now. It is not about whether in or out, that has been decided. But it is about the terms of reference of the UK outside the EU. The implications of the Brexit negotiations will affect generations. Shouldn't the electorate at least know the terms of reference or decide who they want leading those negotiations or should it be taken solely on trusting whoever the defacto Tory Party Leader may be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith and Linda Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 Ok. So you are relaxed about the Tories appointing someone to negotiate Brexit and content to accept whatever terms agreed. Just interested if that is a view widely shared. Isn't that how it is anyhow and the role of any government? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flybyknight Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 saw this yesterday, food for thought for sure..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith and Linda Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 So the whole tone needs to change now. It is not about whether in or out, that has been decided. But it is about the terms of reference of the UK outside the EU. The implications of the Brexit negotiations will affect generations. Shouldn't the electorate at least know the terms of reference or decide who they want leading those negotiations or should it be taken solely on trusting whoever the defacto Tory Party Leader may be? Just like we did with everything that went on when in the EU! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith and Linda Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 saw this yesterday, food for thought for sure..... [ATTACH=CONFIG]33762[/ATTACH] A few "if's"in there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gbye grey sky Posted June 27, 2016 Author Share Posted June 27, 2016 Just like we did with everything that went on when in the EU! But isn't that the whole point. We have now taken back our country so must decide which direction we want to go in this brave new world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flybyknight Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 A few "if's"in there! indeed but what are the other options? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gbye grey sky Posted June 27, 2016 Author Share Posted June 27, 2016 indeed but what are the other options? Wait and see who will stick their head above the parapet. It has to be someone with no long term political ambition other than to go down in history as a PM for a short period who took the UK out of Europe. Which is why I speculate on a General Election. Do we have a lame duck PM negotiating with Europe and blithely accept the outcome or have a General Election where we can be offered alternative visions of a new EU-free future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith and Linda Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 indeed but what are the other options? Some "maybe's"? as in - maybe the sky will not fall on our heads! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith and Linda Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 They are in their own constituency. :-) Only the sitting PM, all other potentials are party leaders Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gbye grey sky Posted June 27, 2016 Author Share Posted June 27, 2016 For all those Leavers it will be a golden opportunity to vote in UKIP and Farage as PM instead of those back-tracking Tories. He will file Article 50 immediately and then go and sort Johnny Foreigner out for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith and Linda Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 For all those Leavers it will be a golden opportunity to vote in UKIP and Farage as PM instead of those back-tracking Tories. He will file Article 50 immediately and then go and sort Johnny Foreigner out for sure. You appear to be taking this very badly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gbye grey sky Posted June 27, 2016 Author Share Posted June 27, 2016 You appear to be taking this very badly! On the contrary, everything I wrote would happen after a Brexit vote is coming to pass. What is that German word, Schadenfreude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith and Linda Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 On the contrary, everything I wrote would happen after a Brexit vote is coming to pass. What is that German word, Schadenfreude. This should be in the "I told you so" thread! but really after only 3 days? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 So the whole tone needs to change now. It is not about whether in or out, that has been decided. But it is about the terms of reference of the UK outside the EU. The implications of the Brexit negotiations will affect generations. Shouldn't the electorate at least know the terms of reference or decide who they want leading those negotiations or should it be taken solely on trusting whoever the defacto Tory Party Leader may be? They should indeed. Especially as the outer' s had/have no awareness of what the New World would look like. A good example of playing with fire and not meaning to get burnt. Boris will know I expect come to realise the stupidity of standing for something out of self interest, which one doesn't remotely believe in for nothing but personal gain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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