maths in england v maths in aus

[mummyoftwo]

Hi all,

 

My husband and I are currently planning a move to Brisbane next spring with our two children. Our daughter will be starting KS2/class 3 this September and our son with be starting in class r. Our daughter is above average in maths and says it's her favourite subject..she clearly takes after my husband who is a management accountant and not me who hates maths! I can't help wondering about how she is going to find the change in education system, everything we have read we're happy with except for it seems maths is behind in aus??

 

So I guess what I'd like to hear from anyone on here is how your children have found maths in aus compared to back home? We wouldn't want her to find it too easy and loose her enthusiasm she currently has - she's always writing maths sums out at home, she loves it so much! Is it really behind from what you have experienced?

 

We had originally thought we'd go for private schools but I think realistically we'll choose a school in one of the western suburbs, ie Chapel Hill, Kenmore area.. unless we completely change our minds once we get there!

 

Many thanks in advance for your comments

 

Laura :-)

[janlo]

Yes they are very behind in year 6.

 

My little boy is having to have loads of tutoring here in the UK as he didn't have a clue on multiplying and dividing fractions or long division. They definately weren't working to the UK advanced standard at 10 years old.

[Diane]

My son was doing long division here in Australia in Year 3 or 4 so I don't think they are behind. My kids have left school now (when we arrived they went into Years 2 and 4 and have gone through the whole Australian school system since. I did Maths at A level (quite a few years ago) and found the maths they were doing at Year 9 here was about the level I did in the final year of A levels in the UK, so I would say Australia is not behind the UK at all. There was a lot of focus on mental arithmetic inn primary school here. Australia manages to produce skilled engineers and scientists and mathemeticians.

[LKC]

I don't have any experience of UK schools (at least not since I went to school many, many years ago), but I would have thought that any differences between the UK and Australian curriculum would only have been of consequence if you intend to move back to the UK.

 

We don't intend on moving back and find the state school that our daughters attend to be excellent, for maths and other subjects. Eldest daughter is in year 5 (aged 10, one of the youngest in the year) and is in an extension maths group as she is excellent at maths. I suspect that if we went back to the UK, she would be placed in the year above (remember that kids start school earlier in the UK so she would be a year further on), so on that basis she would be behind. However, as we are staying here she is exactly where she should be. She is doing things like multiplication/division of fractions and long division so our experience is different to the previous poster, but I think that is in the extension group and those things are not routinely taught until stage 4 (years 7-8 - the first two years of high school). This is Sydney, so the NSW curriculum, but I think they are all aligned.

 

As long as it is taught by the time they leave school it doesn't really matter when it is taught unless, as I said, you intend on moving back. I have found the teachers here to be quick to pick up on the fact that the kids are good at certain things and to extend them in those areas. Youngest daughter was put into a gifted and talented extension group last year which provided more general all round extension, and as I say eldest does more specific extension in maths.

[LKC]

My son was doing long division here in Australia in Year 3 or 4 so I don't think they are behind. My kids have left school now (when we arrived they went into Years 2 and 4 and have gone through the whole Australian school system since. I did Maths at A level (quite a few years ago) and found the maths they were doing at Year 9 here was about the level I did in the final year of A levels in the UK, so I would say Australia is not behind the UK at all. There was a lot of focus on mental arithmetic inn primary school here. Australia manages to produce skilled engineers and scientists and mathemeticians.

 

Yes, I agree with the mental arithmetic thing. They really work on getting them to be good mathematicians who understand principles and can work things out, rather than good because they rote learn things. Again, this is just my experience.

[Skani]

I can't help wondering about how she is going to find the change in education system, everything we have read we're happy with except for it seems maths is behind in aus??

 

 

 

I think it's impossible to generalise because (a) to date school curricula have been the responsibility of states, so they vary across the country and (b) so much depends on the individual school.

My second grandson is 7, in grade 2... and loves maths just like your daughter. He's always asking us to give him mental arithmetic to solve (can be a bit distracting when I'm driving :rolleyes:).

His is obviously a different experience to janlo's son because he's currently doing multiplication and percentages (percentages being the flavour of the month...everything is turned into a percentage :laugh:).

 

But I'm not sure that's true of all the others in his class. I get the impression that they are working to individual plans so can advance quickly if they want to.

[janlo]

Well maybe it's because all these 10 years olds in the UK are sitting (actually they've sat them) Grammar entrance exams. A very high standard needs to be met at such a young age.

[janlo]

......and they are a year ahead of course. 10 year olds on oz are in year 5 not 6 (generally)

[mummyoftwo]

Thanks for all of your replies I really appreciate it and I do agree Skani that it's impossible to generalise, I was just curious to hear what others have experienced, so it was interesting to read what you all had to say. We are planning on making this a permanent move with no plans to come back to the UK so I'm sure she'd be fine in the long run!

[janlo]

My son was doing long division here in Australia in Year 3 or 4 so I don't think they are behind. My kids have left school now (when we arrived they went into Years 2 and 4 and have gone through the whole Australian school system since. I did Maths at A level (quite a few years ago) and found the maths they were doing at Year 9 here was about the level I did in the final year of A levels in the UK, so I would say Australia is not behind the UK at all. There was a lot of focus on mental arithmetic inn primary school here. Australia manages to produce skilled engineers and scientists and mathemeticians.

 

Never!?.... Of course they do - some of the best ....but the kids are taught at a different pace. The OPs little girl will probably be round top of the class.

[janlo]

Yes, I agree with the mental arithmetic thing. They really work on getting them to be good mathematicians who understand principles and can work things out, rather than good because they rote learn things. Again, this is just my experience.

 

im sorry but the UK also works on them understanding good principles and to work things out.

[dmjg]

Ive taught maths and science in both countries,

 

Like virtually everything in the uk/oz debate,

 

Much of a muchness.

[Guest]

My son is 'gifted' in Maths whatever that means - he spent the first 5 years of his schooling in Australia and his ability was recognised and nurtured, back in the UK he was ahead of his class and has continued to be so - I have been equally happy with his education in both countries academically although I do think the Australian system is better holistically. he goes to a progressive private school in Scotland and his head was keen to discuss the education he had previously because it was evident he had been very well taught.

 

There are plenty of opportunities for motivated and able children to be stretched in Australia - there are a large number of migrants from Asian countries that put a huge focus on educational attainment and there are weekend and evening classes such as Kumon that cater for that - not something I agree with but it's there if you do. A good school, whether state run or private should provide differentiated learning within the classroom according to the child's ability.

 

The way I look at it really doesn't matter if you learn algebra or direction numbers at 6, 8, 10 or even 18 so long as you've learnt it by the time you need it - which less face it for most people is never - I went on to be a computer programmer so it turned out quite useful for me and I expect my son will too.

[Paul1Perth]

There's different emphasis on teaching maths between schools. Just like anywhere you get a good maths teacher who makes the subject interesting and relevant and kids enjoy it. A bad teacher and it can be awful. Private schools here aren't like private schools in the UK. There isn't a big snobbish value attached, they aren't that much more expensive and there are lots of them. One of our kids with autism went to a private school as they had a "stream" for kids with learning difficulties. The eldest went to the local public. Both did fine. If your daughter is good at maths and shows some interest you can take it as far as you like in a lot of schools. They still do maths degrees at uni so there are plenty of kids coming out of schools with good qualifications.

[Bungo]

Thanks for all of your replies I really appreciate it and I do agree Skani that it's impossible to generalise, I was just curious to hear what others have experienced, so it was interesting to read what you all had to say. We are planning on making this a permanent move with no plans to come back to the UK so I'm sure she'd be fine in the long run!

 

I have not put children through both systems, however I am interested in education matters and I have met lots of adults who were educated in Australia and lots of adults who were educated in the UK.

 

I am degree level educated in maths myself, but I have never observed that Australians are lacking in their mathematical abilities. Indeed I have never concluded that Australians are any better or worse educated than the Britons I know at all, so it seems like it all comes out ok in the end.

 

You are moving to a new country, it will do some things differently. There is no point comparing school systems or stages and it is better not to think in terms of "being behind" or "being ahead". It may just be different.

[LKC]

im sorry but the UK also works on them understanding good principles and to work things out.

 

I'm sorry that you have misunderstood what I was trying to say. I was stating my experience of things in Australia, not making a comparison between the two countries. As you will see from my original post, I have no experience of primary schooling in the UK other than my own which was more than 30 years ago, and would not presume to comment on it.

[Bound4Tassie]

I'm not sure about the Aus education system(s) so I'm not comparing the 2... but certainly in UK primary schools , there is so much focus on the SAT testing that the kids are taught to the test. My worry is that they have lost a more rounded education as schools are forced to be obsessed with results on paper. They're not creating a lifelong love of learning and enthusiasm for education.

[Pommy Jimbo]

A teacher was telling me the same thing here. Focus on NAPLAN means that subjects like science don't get much of a look in anymore.

[Bound4Tassie]

A teacher was telling me the same thing here. Focus on NAPLAN means that subjects like science don't get much of a look in anymore.

 

It's worrying if the Aus system becomes like the UK. We will end up having to fill in a lot of gaps at home! ( when really they should just be having fun doing family things, riding bikes, climbing trees etc!)

[dmjg]

A teacher was telling me the same thing here. Focus on NAPLAN means that subjects like science don't get much of a look in anymore.

 

Studying the NAPLAN data is definitely important to what we do, but in no way are we fixated by it (yet)

 

With NAPLAN this week we have given the yr 7s a lesson of practise questions and the year 9s have had about two weeks (10 lessons) of focussed test preparation. But thats it.

 

We dont teach to the tests at other times.

 

After the results are back,they are compared to the school improvement plan and signed off whether a target was met or not.

 

Eg NAPLAN results on par with like schools and to reduce the 'tail' of the lowest quartile. Thus, next year we will compare our data with state and like schools, and check whether our tail has tightened. That takes about fifteen minutes in a staff meeting.

 

We then move onto the next bit of red tape......

[NicF]

A teacher was telling me the same thing here. Focus on NAPLAN means that subjects like science don't get much of a look in anymore.

 

That's not my experience of Australia at all. My eldest is in year 9 and has NAPLAN tests this week and has hardly done any directly related prep for it. He's done a practise paper in each subject and a bit of extra preperarion in Maths last week but nothing further. He also did the year 7 tests in primary school and the youngest has done the year 3 and 5 tests and neither of them has been taught to the test. Further the NAPLAN tests are in the first half of the school year so even if a school does teach to the test for the first part of the year they have the rest of the year to teach other things. The primary school my youngest is at teaches science as a separate subject with a separate teacher in year 6 and 7 and they certainly don't miss any lessons to prepare for NAPLAN.

[Bound4Tassie]

That's not my experience of Australia at all. My eldest is in year 9 and has NAPLAN tests this week and has hardly done any directly related prep for it. He's done a practise paper in each subject and a bit of extra preperarion in Maths last week but nothing further. He also did the year 7 tests in primary school and the youngest has done the year 3 and 5 tests and neither of them has been taught to the test. Further the NAPLAN tests are in the first half of the school year so even if a school does teach to the test for the first part of the year they have the rest of the year to teach other things. The primary school my youngest is at teaches science as a separate subject with a separate teacher in year 6 and 7 and they certainly don't miss any lessons to prepare for NAPLAN.

 

Good to hear

[dmjg]

On the NAPLAN prep done at schools,

 

This is in the newsletter the kids were sent home with tonight:

 

[Bob1]

Rather than reading anecdotal comments, look at world rankings in maths. The OECD test 15 year olds world wide every three years and publish the results. Australia is always several places above the UK and does much better across the board. http://static.businessinsider.com/image/529db2aa6bb3f7f9318b1f62/image.jpg?_ga=1.138953267.1227905634.1463592118

 

One of my theories.....people come to Oz from the UK where they may have lived in a decent area. They want a nice house so go for best house in poorest suburb or just can't afford the more affluent suburbs. Local school turns out to be below national average standard. Then they start saying that the whole of the education system must be behind the UK. Stick with world wide studies and choose your school and suburb carefully.

[newjez]

Rather than reading anecdotal comments, look at world rankings in maths. The OECD test 15 year olds world wide every three years and publish the results. Australia is always several places above the UK and does much better across the board. http://static.businessinsider.com/image/529db2aa6bb3f7f9318b1f62/image.jpg?_ga=1.138953267.1227905634.1463592118

 

One of my theories.....people come to Oz from the UK where they may have lived in a decent area. They want a nice house so go for best house in poorest suburb or just can't afford the more affluent suburbs. Local school turns out to be below national average standard. Then they start saying that the whole of the education system must be behind the UK. Stick with world wide studies and choose your school and suburb carefully.

 

You can get some pretty nice areas with pretty crap schools.