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Maria2807

Advice wanted on what to do!

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Hi, I'm in a dilemma and would appreciate anyone's thoughts.

My husband, daughter (then 14) and I moved out to Sydney January 2015 and are loving it out here. My daughter attends a lovely school and has settled in nicely.

We moved out on a 457 sponsorship visa with my husbands employer (he is now 54). After 9 months the employer decided it wasn't working starting up a business in OZ. We had the decision whether to stay and try and find another employer or return to the uk. As a family we all decided to stay. The next few months were difficult and a difficult rollercoaster! To cut the story short my husband found another employer who took over the visa.

The trouble is now that he isn't that happy with the employer. He is working 12-14 hrs a day and is very stressed. It is uncertain as to how long the job will last, there is a realistic chance that either he will make himself ill or the firm will no longer exist. That would lead us to having to find another company to take on the 457 visa, if he could find another role! On the other hand it could work out well and in 3 years time we can apply for pr.

 

My daughter is now in year 10, which is a difficult year. The dilemma is do we cut our losses and return to uk, my daughter would have to drop down a year at school or do we take a chance and stay here? We love it here and if it wasn't for our daughters education we would sit it out and see what happens, but we don't want her education to suffer. Trouble is if it all goes pear shape next year, she would be returning to uk with no exams in year 11(UK) .. would that mean she would have to re-enter at year 9 to be able to sit GCSE exams. Or would she be able to start A levels?

 

I've exhausted the avenues for other ways we can stay her. I am a bookkeeper but not recognized for skilled visa and can't get employer to sponsor. Australia doesn't help people who are over 45/50 either!

 

Any advice anyone can give would be much appreciated. My head is spinning!!

 

Thanks.

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It is a hard one. First, are you sure your husband will qualify for PR - does he meet the earnings threshold? If not, then that, would in my book, pretty much make the decision for you.

 

If so, then it comes down to two things. Could he find another sponsor? If so, and you really want to stay, then that is the avenue I would look at first. If it is going to be hard to find one, then I would seriously consider heading back. Your husbands health simply isn't worth it to carry on for years.

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It's so difficult when you're up against it age wise - was in a similar boat myself and just managed to sneak in. I'd echo VS - try and find another employee now - 3 years is too long to be miserable working for a poor employer and the feeling on vulnerability on a 457 makes for an uncomfortable existence. I'd worry less about your daughter - kids are remarkably resistant and adaptable - its hubby's mental health that is the concern. You can have a very nice life back in the UK with freedom to work for whom you choose, without all the pressure that potentially being booted out the country can bring..

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hi, He does meet earnings threshold and could he find another sponsor .. that's not so easy to answer. Thanks.

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I think I would be cutting my losses and leaving. Three years is a long time to stick out a job if unhappy and at the end of the four years, you are not entitled to a permanent visa, the company has to agree to sponsor him for one. If they don't well it will all have been for nothing. Finding another employer at this stage, resets the clock and it is another four years before you can hope that this employer is prepared to sponsor for PR.

 

Too many planets need to align on this one for my liking and you have rightly identified the problems with timeframe on daughter. In any case if the current job is not going well, you may need to return anyway at any time.

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Chortlepuss: being on 457 we do feel very vulnerable. If he was working for a Company that felt more stable it wouldn't be so bad. We only nee 2 1/2 more years for my daughter to finish her education but like you say its quite a while feeling miserable. We are worried about our daughter too as she really doesn't want to go back and even more doesn't want to repeat a year. Thanks for your advice, maybe best route would be to spend couple of months trying for new job, and if nothing maybe move back?!

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Hi Maria, you mention that your daughter has only 2 and a half years of school to go. However what if you have to leave and she wants to go to uni in the UK, you may have to pay international fees. I'd also look at moving to another state if you're determined to stay and see if hubby can get sponsorship with a more stable company.

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If we were to move back to uk I would think she wouldn't have to pay international fees as we are UK citizens. If we stay in Oz and she goes to uni we would probably have to pay international fees as wouldn't be pr.

Thanks for your reply .

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If we were to move back to uk I would think she wouldn't have to pay international fees as we are UK citizens. If we stay in Oz and she goes to uni we would probably have to pay international fees as wouldn't be pr.

Thanks for your reply .

 

You are in for a potential shock here. Qualification as an international student is not based on citizenship but on residency and the student would need to have been resident in the UK for 3 years prior to entry into University.


Timeline: 309/100 Sent 7/8/13, Money Taken 9/8/13, CO appointed 3/9/13. Med 3/12/13. Police check 4/12/13. VISA GRANTED 8/4/14, Subclass100. Recce August 2014. Arrived 30 July 2015.

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Didn't know about that! It just gets better!!

So if she started back in September this year, year 10 again, she would just about qualify for university and not international student!

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If we stay in Oz and she goes to uni we would probably have to pay international fees as wouldn't be pr.

 

 

There is no degree of probability. It's a total certainty that international fees will be payable.


From Kilmarnock, now in Melbourne :-)

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Didn't know about that! It just gets better!!

So if she started back in September this year, year 10 again, she would just about qualify for university and not international student!

 

Yes, explore this link and tap on the residency status box. http://ukcisa.org.uk/Information--Advice/Fees-and-Money/England-fee-status#RL

Edited by Gbye grey sky
Typo

Timeline: 309/100 Sent 7/8/13, Money Taken 9/8/13, CO appointed 3/9/13. Med 3/12/13. Police check 4/12/13. VISA GRANTED 8/4/14, Subclass100. Recce August 2014. Arrived 30 July 2015.

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The major factors as I read them that you need to consider are these:

 

1. Spending a prolonged period of time being over worked in a job your husband does that he doesn't want to be doing is potentially very seriously damaging for his health.

 

2. There is zero guarantee that you will ever gain PR - far from it. This board has many posts from people whose employers have refused to later sponsor. In my time in Oz, I worked for 3 companies that changed their policy on sponsoring PR and I had to inform people they would no longer be offered it. One was a major multinational, one, one of the largest Australian companies in the sector and a third, a small, though listed company.

 

3. You are not going to get PR in time for your daughter to start university in Australia, so, she will be subject to international fees. Depending on what subject and what iniversity, these could easily be in the 10's of thousands a year - possibly many 10's.

 

4. If you stay in Australia and you don't later get PR and return to the UK, your daughter will have to either wait to go to uni, or be classed as a international student and be lumbered with the above.

 

5. The rules on gaining PR may very well change between now and when you are eligible making it no longer possible - for example, there is already talk of raising the minimum threshold for 457's salaries. They could very easily massively increase the current $130k (ish) minimum threshold for PR for over 50's very heavily. Or even simply remove it - you would be surprised at how quick things can change. Have a look at the threads by Cat 5 applicants. These were people who have applied, paid for their visas and were waiting a long time - often a lot of years. Many in the country on bridging visas. Only for the minister to decide to cancel them all instantly.

 

In your situation, I would be returning.

 

For context, my situation is we went to Oz on 457's, gained PR, gained citizenship but have recently returned to the UK due to work after a total of 8 years in Australia

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If you moved to Australia for a better quality of life then clearly you are not having one! I'm sure your husband did not move there to increase his working day to so many hours.

 

457 visas are only temporary and you are all trying to build a long lasting life in Oz on something that can be taken away or expire. You and your daughter are totally dependent on your husband for the right to remain in Australia and his mental health can only last for so long before stress takes its toll. If he was to take a long period of sick leave due to stress or anxiety he would probably worry that he would lose his job, so he's in a vicious circle to keep going, hoping for something else to come up but with no guarantee.

 

Do you have a home to come back to in the UK or did you sell up? If you are having less quality time as a family then have a good think about where you all had more time for each other and more fun together. If that was back in the UK then you have your answer.


Don't Let It Happen To You : What Every Mother Should Know Before Emigrating. Available on Amazon by Rachel Tilley.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Dont-Let-Happen-You-Emigrating-ebook/dp/B00FV80PTM/ref=sr_1_1?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1451572986&sr=1-1&keywords=rachel+tilley

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You are in for a potential shock here. Qualification as an international student is not based on citizenship but on residency and the student would need to have been resident in the UK for 3 years prior to entry into University.

 

....and I can confirm that having been through something similar over the past year :arghh:


Citizenship Timeline

Date applied - 15 November 2017

City/Council area - Cockburn, WA

Online / Paper - Online

Date received the acknowledgement email - 15 November 2017

Date of the Citizenship Test - 24 August 2018

Approval - 6 September 2018

Date of ceremony - 6 November 2018

Originally from UK

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This sounds like me 3 years ago, hated the job but stuck out for residency (also 4 years as over 50) made 4 yrs on higher salary threshold on Apr 1st but was informed in October that job would be made redundant (Apr 12). Tried getting help & assistance off MPs, immigration minister & Immigration department without success. Basically get another job for 4 more years or go home. with nothing to guarantee this won't happen again I think we'll be going home.

Good luck & hope you have better luck than we have !

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I moved out to Sydney January 2015 and are loving it out here. ...

We moved out on a 457 sponsorship visa with my husbands employer (he is now 54). After 9 months the employer decided it wasn't working starting up a business in OZ.... To cut the story short my husband found another employer who took over the visa.

 

The trouble is now that he isn't that happy with the employer. He is working 12-14 hrs a day and is very stressed. ... On the other hand it could work out well and in 3 years time we can apply for pr.

 

My daughter is now in year 10, which is a difficult year. The dilemma is do we cut our losses and return to uk, my daughter would have to drop down a year at school or do we take a chance and stay here?

 

You say your oh's job might work out well and in 3 years you could apply for PR. You do know that you don't just apply for PR - he would have to get that employer to sponsor him. If the employer doesn't want to sponsor him, you've got no other option. So if you've got doubts about the employer then the chances of getting PR start to look very shaky.

 

I may be wrong, but I always thought you could go for PR earlier, you don't have to wait till the end of the contract. That would be worth looking into - but again, the employer needs to be willing to sponsor. If it is possible to do but the employer says no, that would surely tell you something about their intentions.

 

If you can't get PR earlier, then I'd say you've really got no option but to go home - otherwise you're facing the very real risk that your daughter won't be able to go to university, because both countries will want international fees and they are crippling.

Edited by Marisawright

Scot by birth, emigrated 1985 | Aussie husband applied UK spouse visa Jan 2015, granted March 2015, moved to UK May 2015 | Returned to Oz June 2016

"The stranger who comes home does not make himself at home but makes home itself strange." -- Rainer Maria Rilke

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You say your oh's job might work out well and in 3 years you could apply for PR. You do know that you don't just apply for PR - he would have to get that employer to sponsor him. If the employer doesn't want to sponsor him, you've got no other option. So if you've got doubts about the employer then the chances of getting PR start to look very shaky.

 

I may be wrong, but I always thought you could go for PR earlier, you don't have to wait till the end of the contract. That would be worth looking into - but again, the employer needs to be willing to sponsor. If it is possible to do but the employer says no, that would surely tell you something about their intentions.

 

If you can't get PR earlier, then I'd say you've really got no option but to go home - otherwise you're facing the very real risk that your daughter won't be able to go to university, because both countries will want international fees and they are crippling.

 

Over 50's have to do 4 years on a 457 to be eligible for sponsored PR and have been earning above the threshold

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Over 50's have to do 4 years on a 457 to be eligible for sponsored PR and have been earning above the threshold

 

Ouch. In that case it would be very risky to stay - as you point out, who knows what the threshold will be like by the time the four years are up?


Scot by birth, emigrated 1985 | Aussie husband applied UK spouse visa Jan 2015, granted March 2015, moved to UK May 2015 | Returned to Oz June 2016

"The stranger who comes home does not make himself at home but makes home itself strange." -- Rainer Maria Rilke

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Didn't know about that! It just gets better!!

So if she started back in September this year, year 10 again, she would just about qualify for university and not international student!

 

Yup, that's what I would be doing! Personally I think the rest is too tricky. You have no guarantee of sponsorship or permanent residence (given his age). Sure, you may love it but you may screw up the rest of your days with the gamble unfortunately

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We came on a 457 visa my husband's job was sponsored, he is under 50 so only needed to complete 2 years and then get his employer to sponsor him, they had confirmed they would prior to us moving.

They turned out not to be a great employer and liked to bully and intimidate their staff! My husband stuck it out and the week he reached 2 years they sacked him!

We were devastated, luckily he managed to get another sponsor but we won't be applying for PR we will be going home before our 457 visa runs out.

It's a tough decision good luck with whatever you decide to do.

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They turned out not to be a great employer and liked to bully and intimidate their staff! My husband stuck it out and the week he reached 2 years they sacked him!

 

 

Sadly there are employers who take advantage of people like yourselves, who are so desperate to emigrate that they'll go the 457 route. They know that they've got the employee over a barrel and can demand excessive hours and treat them badly, because leaving means losing the right to stay. And of course they've got absolutely no intention of sponsoring either, they'll just recruit another sucker when the time comes.


Scot by birth, emigrated 1985 | Aussie husband applied UK spouse visa Jan 2015, granted March 2015, moved to UK May 2015 | Returned to Oz June 2016

"The stranger who comes home does not make himself at home but makes home itself strange." -- Rainer Maria Rilke

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Reading this & with hindsight, I would advise anyone coming across on a 457 to get verification in writing that the company will sponsor after 4 years. I would also suggest again requesting in writing that they will pay repatriation expenses if you are made redundant through no fault of your own. My removal expenses were paid to come but refused for the return although company do have a responsibility to pay airfares and even for expenses to find and remove you if you take the Australian "Walkabout" route although this would probably do you no favours.

We believe we have also exhausted all avenues to gain PR. & there is absolutely no assistance or flexibility in the immigration system. They are even determined to twist the knife by taxing superan' at 38% to withdraw as a "None Resident".

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Gosh, I really feel for you having ended up in this precarious position. Although I would usually err on the optimistic and say to try with another employer, I do think that you need to tread carefully with respect to your daughter's education. If she does intend to go to uni after school, then I think if I were in your shoes I'd be heading back to the UK in time for her to qualify for domestic fees. I don't know if you would be able to move back to the same area that you left, but if you can then surely she must have some friends that she had before you left? If that is the case she may well settle right back in. If not, I reckon that kids are pretty resilient to change and she'll probably cope with it better than you think. I have a friend who was living in NZ, moved back to the UK, then out to Australia and back to the UK again, all with her teenage daughter in tow (and her NZ hubby initially, although they separated after the Aus move and he went back to NZ) and her daughter wasn't phased by the moves at all. I know this is just one anecdote, but it does illustrate that kids often just go with the flow.

 

Anyway, I wish you luck with whatever you decide.

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Reading this & with hindsight, I would advise anyone coming across on a 457 to get verification in writing that the company will sponsor after 4 years.

 

Harsh though it may seem, this would serve absolutely no purpose.

 

Companies can change their minds, be bought by new owners, go bust, etc etc.


From Kilmarnock, now in Melbourne :-)

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