Temporary Residents Education Fees - Petition please read and sign!!!

[Sammy1]

The self righteous comments never cease to amaze me! Strong opinions from people who measure it all by a PR or a temporary visa alone... No thoughts to the fact that people residing here on 457's are paying tax just like them, possibly paying a lot more tax than them in some cases...and are here providing a service that the government decides is sufficiently important enough to be granted a work visa. I personally tend to look at things from a fair/equitable perspective, they are equally contributing to the countries economy why should they be treated differently? What would you say to the family that simply cannot afford the fees after paying their share of taxes and sustaining a modest lifestyle in this expensive country, would you say it's tough and your kids don't deserve an expducation because you're visas different to mine, but hey my kids deserve on cos I'm a PR, even though I pay less tax than you and utilise the full benefits of Medicare and Centrelink?? A facetious comment that doesn't apply to most just trying to highlight a moral point xx

 

Schools are under huge pressure, the fees are needed, it is as simple as that.

[Peach]

PIO at its worst

 

thank heavens you're here to impartially judge..

[Phoenix16]

VS what about people who come here on PR and only stay a few years? They certainly don't pay enough tax towards all they receive during their stay. i have met people who arrived here on 457's who paid huge amounts of tax, sufficient enough to provide for their child's education in the top private schools for their whole educational years...yes paying 5k would have meant nothing to them, it's the moral aspect of this I find difficult particularly the judgemental attitudes of people on here, "I'm alright Jack....but stuff you" is how I read it. Someone who arrives here on a 457 does have hopes and aspirations of it leading to a permanent move, we should be supportive and encouraging but it seems we regard 457's as a lower class and it seems some take delight in highlighting the little rights they have and the fact that their tenure is precarious here, maybe walk in those shoes before chucking stones I personally think xxx

[Phoenix16]

Schools are under huge pressure, the fees are needed, it is as simple as that.

 

So let's pick on the easy targets instead of addressing fundamental issues xx

[calNgary]

I didnt think you paid in QLD ,especially on a 457 sponsor visa, even other visa's have an exemption fee if you meet the criteria, has a new rule come in ?

I have never known anyone pay when they moved here (unless they opted for private school) and i have met a lot of familys in the years i have been here.

 

 

Cal x

 

Also, on a temp visa do you not still receive child payments in the UK ?

[DT55]

I didnt think you paid in QLD ,especially on a 457 sponsor visa, even other visa's have an exemption fee if you meet the criteria, has a new rule come in ?

I have never known anyone pay when they moved here (unless they opted for private school) and i have met a lot of familys in the years i have been here.

 

 

Cal x

 

Also, on a temp visa do you not still receive child payments in the UK ?

 

 

When we were on a 457 they stopped UK child payments

[northshorepom]

EDIT:: Ah nah....not worth it

Edited March 14, 2016 by northshorepom

[Phoenix16]

I didnt think you paid in QLD ,especially on a 457 sponsor visa, even other visa's have an exemption fee if you meet the criteria, has a new rule come in ?

I have never known anyone pay when they moved here (unless they opted for private school) and i have met a lot of familys in the years i have been here.

 

 

Cal x

 

Also, on a temp visa do you not still receive child payments in the UK ?

 

I believe (although not 100%) that Brisbane do now charge a fee and most other states too, WA brought it in within the last year or so, it's still fairly new in some states and I'm sure people arrive here not realising about it, I would imagine prospective sponsors don't highlight it or you would most definitely negotiate it into your package! Child benefit absolutely stops from the day you leave the UK, I'm not sure if leaving the Uk (albeit temporarily) affects other benefits and rights (such as NHS care etc) as the test is habitual residence in the UK and that test can be quite stringent, living in Australia for 4 years could definitely fail the habitual residence test in the UK, particularly if you're no longer maintaining a home there, catch 22....?

[flag of convenience]

The self righteous comments never cease to amaze me! Strong opinions from people who measure it all by a PR or a temporary visa alone... No thoughts to the fact that people residing here on 457's are paying tax just like them, possibly paying a lot more tax than them in some cases...and are here providing a service that the government decides is sufficiently important enough to be granted a work visa. I personally tend to look at things from a fair/equitable perspective, they are equally contributing to the countries economy why should they be treated differently? What would you say to the family that simply cannot afford the fees after paying their share of taxes and sustaining a modest lifestyle in this expensive country, would you say it's tough and your kids don't deserve an expducation because you're visas different to mine, but hey my kids deserve on cos I'm a PR, even though I pay less tax than you and utilise the full benefits of Medicare and Centrelink?? A facetious comment that doesn't apply to most just trying to highlight a moral point xx

 

Little to do with self righteous at least on my part. There was a time when 457's would have had an argument I would have supported. Those days have been long gong. This visa is open to abuse in numerous areas. While I can find sympathy to an extend for some of those impacted, by and large the short term validity of the visa only supports to either company picking up educational costs as indeed is the case of business migrants in the main, or else come if qualify on a permanent visa.

All too many use the 457 as a way around the immigration process or in cases even because it is a cheaper option. Australians and those whom are migrants here should not have to pick up your kid's education costs. Perish the thought.

[flag of convenience]

I believe (although not 100%) that Brisbane do now charge a fee and most other states too, WA brought it in within the last year or so, it's still fairly new in some states and I'm sure people arrive here not realising about it, I would imagine prospective sponsors don't highlight it or you would most definitely negotiate it into your package! Child benefit absolutely stops from the day you leave the UK, I'm not sure if leaving the Uk (albeit temporarily) affects other benefits and rights (such as NHS care etc) as the test is habitual residence in the UK and that test can be quite stringent, living in Australia for 4 years could definitely fail the habitual residence test in the UK, particularly if you're no longer maintaining a home there, catch 22....?

 

It certainly does present issues into the feasibility of moving to Australia on a 457.

[Nemesis]

Really? When I was on a 457 in QLD I didnt pay anything!

 

 

Queensland (including Brisbane) doesn't charge on 457s.

WA and NSW do.

Edited March 14, 2016 by Nemesis

[Nemesis]

We are are entitled to Medicare, again as a British citizen this is an agreement between our countries. Just like if an Australian went to the Uk they would benefit from our NHS and free primary/secondary education... But that's okay!

Technically speaking (though its often not enforced) on a 457 you are only entitled to reciprocal medicare, not full medicare. Its only supposed to cover emergencies, not elective surgery and ongoing treatment.

[Phoenix16]

Little to do with self righteous at least on my part. There was a time when 457's would have had an argument I would have supported. Those days have been long gong. This visa is open to abuse in numerous areas. While I can find sympathy to an extend for some of those impacted, by and large the short term validity of the visa only supports to either company picking up educational costs as indeed is the case of business migrants in the main, or else come if qualify on a permanent visa.

All too many use the 457 as a way around the immigration process or in cases even because it is a cheaper option. Australians and those whom are migrants here should not have to pick up your kid's education costs. Perish the thought.

 

I acknowledge your comments, I always give credence to them as they tend to be articulate and on point, you make valid points that I do tend to agree with, however, I tend to take offence at those who just wade in with no sensitivity and stand in total judgement of others, based purely on their own opinions with limited experience to back it up. I fully agree the 457 is an abused visa and as you say now a 'back door' visa, I would urge anyone to think twice about taking one. It had its place once and enabled Australia to bring in short supply talent and skills that were needed but many of these can now be fulfilled with home grown talent.

[calNgary]

Queensland doesn't charge on 457s.

WA and NSW do.

 

Apparently it does now,, i have tried Google but the only info its showing for your kids having to pay for schooling is if your here on a Student visa, even them a lot of them are exempt. I must be missing something but too tired to bother anymore,lol

[Nemesis]

Apparently it does now,, i have tried Google but the only info its showing for your kids having to pay for schooling is if your here on a Student visa, even them a lot of them are exempt. I must be missing something but too tired to bother anymore,lol

Its a very very recent and non publicised change then - and some of my mates are very lucky to be getting away with no fees!

 

Most recent official information I can find is here

 

http://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament/Parliamentary_Departments/Parliamentary_Library/pubs/rp/rp1314/QG/Subclass457Visa

 

[h=3]Do temporary work visa holders receive the same benefits as Australians?[/h]No. Temporary workers do not have access to a range of government support available to Australian citizens and permanent residents, such as Centrelink payments and Medicare (unless reciprocal health agreements exist).

In addition, states and territories may charge fees for the children of workers on subclass 457 visas to attend public schools. New South Wales (NSW) charges $4,500 for kindergarten, $4,500 for junior high schooling and $5,500 for senior high schooling of subclass 457 visa holders. The Australian Capital Territory charges $9,320, $12,500 and $13,900 respectively, although subclass 457 visa holders can apply for an education fee waiver if they are involved in a job that appears on the Skilled Occupation Lists. In 2013, Western Australia announced a $4,000 per year public school tuition fee for children of subclass 457 visa holders but reports suggest this has been revised down to $2,000 for each additional child from the same family, with implementation postponed until 2015.

Subclass 457 visa holders in other states and the Northern Territory are exempt from international student fees, but may contribute minor administrative fees as do domestic students.

Edited March 14, 2016 by Nemesis

[Phoenix16]

I'm going to bow out, I've made my point!! I do find Australia so snobby and with its very own class system, I'm in WA you get the Western Suburbs old money v new money scenario going all the way down to the migrants snobbery of oh we are PR v's your just on a 457...I do find the 457 baiting that goes on here on PIO rather upsetting at times, we were happily enjoying life in UK 6 years, no aspirations whatsoever to come to OZ, hubby was headhunted to come here and complete a major contract, under the old rules we were granted PR 6 months after landing (application took less than 4 week) based on his exceptional talent, we're proud to be here and are now citizens, I don't and won't look down my nose at other 457 visa holders, I've walked in their shoes and we certainly didn't see this as a back door into OZ we'd never thought about coming here once until he got the phone call xxx

[flag of convenience]

I acknowledge your comments, I always give credence to them as they tend to be articulate and on point, you make valid points that I do tend to agree with, however, I tend to take offence at those who just wade in with no sensitivity and stand in total judgement of others, based purely on their own opinions with limited experience to back it up. I fully agree the 457 is an abused visa and as you say now a 'back door' visa, I would urge anyone to think twice about taking one. It had its place once and enabled Australia to bring in short supply talent and skills that were needed but many of these can now be fulfilled with home grown talent.

 

I admit to being insensitive to the plight of 457's but not to knowing little about the farce being and has been in operation for some time by governments of both colours.

I can feel for folk that were not fully informed as to the pitfalls of this visa, but at the end of the day it is the job of the applicant to avail themselves fully to conditions prior to undertaking a life change on such a visa.

[flag of convenience]

I'm going to bow out, I've made my point!! I do find Australia so snobby and with its very own class system, I'm in WA you get the Western Suburbs old money v new money scenario going all the way down to the migrants snobbery of oh we are PR v's your just on a 457...I do find the 457 baiting that goes on here on PIO rather upsetting at times, we were happily enjoying life in UK 6 years, no aspirations whatsoever to come to OZ, hubby was headhunted to come here and complete a major contract, under the old rules we were granted PR 6 months after landing (application took less than 4 week) based on his exceptional talent, we're proud to be here and are now citizens, I don't and won't look down my nose at other 457 visa holders, I've walked in their shoes and we certainly didn't see this as a back door into OZ we'd never thought about coming here once until he got the phone call xxx

 

Sadly the abuse that has gone on reflects on all 457's to a more or lesser degree. The powers that be had a grand idea, but took it to extremes, hoping the populace wouldn't notice, in the process abusing the original good intent and even necessity.

[Johndoe]

It seems that your statement re a right to free education can be up for dispute as the International convention of the protection of all migrant workers and family members (article 43) states:

 

Migrant workers shall enjoy equality of treatment with nationals of the State of employment in relation to access to educational institutions and services subject to the admission requirements and other regulations of the institutions and services concerned;

 

If a school or education authority (institution) has an admission requirement of payment for education (services), then under the convention, it has a right to charge a fee if that fee is contained within its requirements for non citizens.

 

Edit to add: I have no intention of arguing the toss as to whether it is discriminatory or not. I post merely on the basis that the OP stated that Australia was breaking the convention when it's clear that the articles were not read in depth, otherwise the OP could have found what I found in less than 3 minutes courtesy of google

Edited March 14, 2016 by Johndoe

[Quoll]

Queensland (including Brisbane) doesn't charge on 457s.

 

WA and NSW do.

 

Correct! as does ACT and that is the most expensive state but i don't think fees there have reached 15k yet although for a yr 12 student it might be close.

 

Anyone arriving on a 457 or other temporary visa not realizing they would have to potentially pay for education has definitely not done their homework! It's mentioned on this site alone pretty much daily. My guess is that add other states get harder up the pressure will be on the non charging states to start charging.

[VERYSTORMY]

It has nothing to do with "bashing" 457 holders. I am an ex 457 holder myself.

 

It is just very simple. The 457 is a temporary visa. The expectation of which is that people on it will come to Australia for a short time to fill a vacancy that couldn't be filled locally and then leave. As a result, it is perfectly reasonable to treat them differently for the purpose of government funding. The same principle applies to Centre Link benefits. Also for Medicare - Brits get Medicare by agreement between the UK and Australia, however, 457 holders from most other countries don't.

 

Given that there is an assumption 457 holders will leave at the end of their 457, it is perfectly reasonable in my opinion that they are charged for essential services. There is nothing unusual about it, as I have mentioned, the same principle applies to Centrelink and other areas including higher education where 457 holders are regarded as international students

[calNgary]

If a 457 had been our only way here , we would have taken that route.

I posted as im sure one post mentioned they were paying thousands for schooling and id hate to see someone ripped off.

 

Cal x

[Ken]

VS what about people who come here on PR and only stay a few years? They certainly don't pay enough tax towards all they receive during their stay. i have met people who arrived here on 457's who paid huge amounts of tax, sufficient enough to provide for their child's education in the top private schools for their whole educational years...yes paying 5k would have meant nothing to them, it's the moral aspect of this I find difficult particularly the judgemental attitudes of people on here, "I'm alright Jack....but stuff you" is how I read it. Someone who arrives here on a 457 does have hopes and aspirations of it leading to a permanent move, we should be supportive and encouraging but it seems we regard 457's as a lower class and it seems some take delight in highlighting the little rights they have and the fact that their tenure is precarious here, maybe walk in those shoes before chucking stones I personally think xxx

 

I'm sorry but if you're going to take the moral aspect to migration then Australia's immigration quota will be entirely filled by persecuted minorities and there will be no places left for skilled workers. Australia's skilled migration system is by it's very nature grossly unfair - it discriminates against the unskilled, the aged, those with expensive medical needs and those with less than Superb English - but that's because it's a pragmatic approach to the country's needs not a moral program to give an Australian lifestyle to anyone who wants it.

[benj1980]

I'm going to bow out, I've made my point!! I do find Australia so snobby and with its very own class system, I'm in WA you get the Western Suburbs old money v new money scenario going all the way down to the migrants snobbery of oh we are PR v's your just on a 457...I do find the 457 baiting that goes on here on PIO rather upsetting at times, we were happily enjoying life in UK 6 years, no aspirations whatsoever to come to OZ, hubby was headhunted to come here and complete a major contract, under the old rules we were granted PR 6 months after landing (application took less than 4 week) based on his exceptional talent, we're proud to be here and are now citizens, I don't and won't look down my nose at other 457 visa holders, I've walked in their shoes and we certainly didn't see this as a back door into OZ we'd never thought about coming here once until he got the phone call xxx

 

Clearly this debate has hit a nerve since you came over on this visa and therefore you have sympathy. As other posters have suggested the 457 visa or student visas are not a guarantee to anything else other than a temporary stay. If you manage a permanent stay through bridging/additional visas good luck to you. By going through the process of gaining PR I knew what I was getting from my visa and the entitlements. I don't think I am any better than a person on a 457 visa, we all move to Australia following our own paths and destiny. But what I don't like is when people move over and then moan about their visa, state how unfair it is when they signed up for it and want state or national changes to it. If you didn't do your own research concerning the entitlements of a 457 visa I find it incredibly naïve particularly with a young family. I researched everything I could as I was pulling my family away from friends and family, knowing this was the biggest and most expensive risk of my life.

 

I don't know the original posters reasons for moving over on a 457 visa and I am not walking in their shoes. Maybe PR wasn't an option and they were desperate to come to Oz at any cost. I don't agree with this petition but hope they find a way to live more comfortably in Oz whether temporarily or permanently one day.

[NicF]

It was in the paper yesterday that South Australia are also introducing fees for 457 visa holders. The amount charged will be done on th basis of earnings with those with a household income of over $77k paying the full amount of $5100 for primary school children and $6100 for secondary students. Sliding discounts will be applied below this amount so that someone with a household income of $57k or above will pay a portion of the costs. Presumably those with a household income of less than this will not pay anything.