Turn Back the Boats Comes to Europe

[Blue Flu 990]

18 minutes ago, s713 said:

I bet Macron was pissing himself as Rishi got back on the plane, another £500M off the rosbifs.

From a Govt who couldn't even find £100M to pay for kids school dinners.

Of course if Brexit had not happened, undocumented arrivals could have been returned to France without incident. Grand to further witness Brexit going swimmingly well. 

[Blue Flu 990]

3 minutes ago, Tulip1 said:

Many people won’t publicly say they don’t want them in case of what people think about them.  It’s the same with everything.  People overall are often too polite to say what they really think.  That’s why with things like a radio call in it’s  usually only those who want to sound nice participate (and who genuinely want them to keep coming) many people who think otherwise don’t want everyone hearing them say so in public so are much less likely to participate. 

I accept that. Just surprised how many did feel for the asylum seekers though. I don't recall such a positive response on Perth phone in radio. But vast difference of subjects discussed anyway . 

[s713 2,019]

4 minutes ago, Tulip1 said:

Many people won’t publicly say they don’t want them in case of what people think about them.  It’s the same with everything.  People overall are often too polite to say what they really think.  That’s why with things like a radio call in it’s  usually only those who want to sound nice participate (and who genuinely want them to keep coming) many people who think otherwise don’t want everyone hearing them say so in public so are much less likely to participate. 

Is that the many people you don't know and don't speak to on a very regular basis? Or are you guessing?

Honest to God 

[s713 2,019]

9 minutes ago, Blue Flu said:

Of course if Brexit had not happened, undocumented arrivals could have been returned to France without incident. Grand to further witness Brexit going swimmingly well. 

Brexit has made it much worse. We've just paid the French £500M to build a new shed, reduce the numbers slightly and we can all claim a win-win. The Express will be doing cart-wheels (from the Cayman Islands).

Edited March 12 by s713

[Tulip1 4,667]

8 minutes ago, s713 said:

Is that the many people you don't know and don't speak to on a very regular basis? Or are you guessing?

Honest to God 

Just like you were guessing that the majority of people won’t accept it.  It must be contagious.  

[s713 2,019]

No offence, have you read the posts you've made in the last hour? Argument aside, they're nonsensical. Each post does't seem to follow the logic of the previous.

But hey, it's crazy world, who knows eh? God bless.

Edited March 12 by s713

[Parley 7,356]

4 hours ago, Blue Flu said:

It was a PR stunt that cost an incredible amount of money. Remember Cambodia? Six refugees were placed there at a cost of many millions for each one. None remained so no doubt that money went into the back pockets of corrupt officials. UK doesn't have basket cases close to its borders like Nauru. Ot compliant PNG. 

Hard to transfer that outcome to UK. Even Rwanda has cost a huge amount of money and not a single asylum seeker as arrived there. By the way, only 200 have been agreed on as the total that would be accepted. 

It saved billions, not to mention the myriad issues that can't just place a dollar figure on.

Surely you haven't forgotten that boats were arriving every day or every 2nd day with hundreds on board. That could not be allowed to continue.

[simmo 21,581]

6 hours ago, Blue Flu said:

Call in radio responders have been in favour of asylum seekers when I listened in on a few occasions. Very surprised at the support for them. 

I've noticed that those that do oppose it are made out to be racist bigots. No wonder they don't call in.  It's the same on all media.

[Blue Flu 990]

2 hours ago, Parley said:

It saved billions, not to mention the myriad issues that can't just place a dollar figure on.

Surely you haven't forgotten that boats were arriving every day or every 2nd day with hundreds on board. That could not be allowed to continue.

Well no it didn't it cost a fortune. Whatv was required was management of the issue. Stop the boats leaving Indonesia, as UK is attempting to do in France at the moment, and maintain a refugee intake scheme of a fair number over a year. Obviously not all should come and the task would be shared among other like minded nations. 

You seem to over look as do many, those that arrived by plane. They were not treated as boat arrivals and many got to stay. Boats make better propaganda though . 

But anyway, Australia has been following a policy of turbo immigration for a number of years now. The lack of infrastructure in our  cities,  is clearly impacting on life quality even though the boats have long ceased. 

[Rallyman 3,945]

12 hours ago, Blue Flu said:

Well no it didn't it cost a fortune. Whatv was required was management of the issue. Stop the boats leaving Indonesia, as UK is attempting to do in France at the moment, and maintain a refugee intake scheme of a fair number over a year. Obviously not all should come and the task would be shared among other like minded nations. 

You seem to over look as do many, those that arrived by plane. They were not treated as boat arrivals and many got to stay. Boats make better propaganda though . 

But anyway, Australia has been following a policy of turbo immigration for a number of years now. The lack of infrastructure in our  cities,  is clearly impacting on life quality even though the boats have long ceased. 

The ones arriving by plane had documentation which could be checked , the people paying people smugglers vast domes of money would throw all paperwork/ passports etc overboard once spotted by the RAN patrol boats. 
 

[Blue Flu 990]

3 hours ago, Rallyman said:

The ones arriving by plane had documentation which could be checked , the people paying people smugglers vast domes of money would throw all paperwork/ passports etc overboard once spotted by the RAN patrol boats. 
 

How many used false documentation in order to be able to leave?  Regardless they were accepted as part of the process in order to ascertain refugee status. Those that came by boat were not, which meant Australia was technically in breach of the law they signed up to by way of The Convention. 

You main cast your mind back to the lies of the children overboard saga, invented by Howard. That did not sit well with the RAN hierarchy as I recall. 

 

[Rallyman 3,945]

23 minutes ago, Blue Flu said:

How many used false documentation in order to be able to leave?  Regardless they were accepted as part of the process in order to ascertain refugee status. Those that came by boat were not, which meant Australia was technically in breach of the law they signed up to by way of The Convention. 

You main cast your mind back to the lies of the children overboard saga, invented by Howard. That did not sit well with the RAN hierarchy as I recall. 

 

I got my information from someone who was in charge of boarding parties, boarding the actual boats , not a pleasant job 

[Blue Flu 990]

5 minutes ago, Rallyman said:

I got my information from someone who was in charge of boarding parties, boarding the actual boats , not a pleasant job 

It is no secret that papers were destroyed. That information is on the public domain. What was disturbing was the politicisation of the matter for political gain. Not to mention the lies told, in order to demonise those coming in boats. Never a good look when a government so blatantly lies. (especially involving an element of the armed forces in though lies)

[Parley 7,356]

4 hours ago, Blue Flu said:

It is no secret that papers were destroyed. That information is on the public domain. What was disturbing was the politicisation of the matter for political gain. Not to mention the lies told, in order to demonise those coming in boats. Never a good look when a government so blatantly lies. (especially involving an element of the armed forces in though lies)

Those people were criminals and deserved to be demonized.

[Blue Flu 990]

3 hours ago, Parley said:

Those people were criminals and deserved to be demonized.

Hardly criminals, unless they committed a crime that you know about? It is not illegal to seek asylum. 

[FirstWorldProblems 1,677]

4 hours ago, Parley said:

Those people were criminals and deserved to be demonized.

Criminals should be demonised?

 

[Blue Flu 990]

A bit odd when given a bit of thought. Those that voted for Brexit are most likely the ones up in arms about the present boat arrivals. Odd because, if UK was still in Europe, returning boat arrivals to France will pose less a problem. 

[FirstWorldProblems 1,677]

2 minutes ago, Blue Flu said:

A bit odd when given a bit of thought. Those that voted for Brexit are most likely the ones up in arms about the present boat arrivals. Odd because, if UK was still in Europe, returning boat arrivals to France will pose less a problem. 

they knew what they were voting for

[Blue Flu 990]

3 minutes ago, FirstWorldProblems said:

they knew what they were voting for

They sure did. Even if can't name a single benefit to date. (stopped the Romanians perhaps for some?) (never mind immigration to UK is higher than pre Brexit. 

[FirstWorldProblems 1,677]

Whether you think these asylum seekers are genuine or not and whether they should be allowed to come to the UK or not, no one should feel comfortable with the way the 2023 incarnation of the conservative party is managing this situation or how it is trying to manipulate voter sentiment.   I myself voted conservative my whole life until the Brexit days and I don't recognise the party today as the one of the last few decades.

Here is some data. 

The number of asylum applications to the UK peaked in 2002 at 84,132.   It fell to a twenty-year low in 2010 of 17,916. It then steadily climbed, and sharply increased in 2021 and 2022.  Source: parliament briefing March 2023.

This next chart shows that despite increasing the number of caseworkers, the amount of cases processed per worker has plummeted - from 260 in the year ending March 2016, to 614 in the year ending March 2022.  Source: Oxford university briefing February 2023

 

The 2021, 2022 and 2023 Conservative party are telling the public they are taking action.  They say they are spending more and that they have hired more caseworkers.  Yet they are processing 1/3rd of what they did before?   Why?  Did they fire all the competent people and hire people 1/3rd as good?   I don't see how you can conclude anything other than a deliberate slowing down. 

The next chart shows the number of decisions per caseworker.      

 

 

Look how it has slowed down.   I can't think of a good explanation for this other than a policy change.  An increase in applications is a good reason for the size of the queue to grow.   But the average decisions per casework should remain static.

In this next chart we can see strong evidence that this is the case.  Look how the time to process has  increased, despite more case workers

 

 

I'd open to other interpretations.  Mine is that they don't want this problem to go away.   It suits them to have something that people feel passionately about and to create an enemy for us to fear.  It distracts from the other failings of this government and if they can blow it up to be something big enough and portray it THE problem of the moment and one only they are willing to solve, they can fool plenty of people into voting for them.

IMO if you are a person that feels strongly that these asylum seekers are not genuine, shouldn't be being allowed entry in the UK etc.  Then you shouldn't be applauding the UK governments recent announcement, you should be booing them what is a clear and cynical failure to manage the situation for their own political gain.......all paid for out of your and my taxes.   

We should be demanding they process people faster.  Get them out of hotels that are costing us a fortune and get the false asylum seekers shipped off back home to send a message to others coming here without good reason that they will be out on their ear within weeks.

Edited March 13 by FirstWorldProblems

[Parley 7,356]

13 hours ago, Blue Flu said:

Hardly criminals, unless they committed a crime that you know about? It is not illegal to seek asylum. 

They entered Australia illegally. So yes they have committed a crime in doing so. 

[Blue Flu 990]

13 minutes ago, FirstWorldProblems said:

 

Why can't people engage in grown up debate without getting personal?

The normal modus operandi for those losing the argument.

 

A question I was asked but a long time ago. I now accept that it how it is and a reason why subject matter is often kept banal. 

[Blue Flu 990]

1 hour ago, Parley said:

They entered Australia illegally. So yes they have committed a crime in doing so. 

Again read it slowly and repeat. Seeking asylum is not a crime.

That's the law. 

[Bulya 2,754]

3 hours ago, Parley said:

They entered Australia illegally. So yes they have committed a crime in doing so. 

Wrong. 

[Parley 7,356]

3 hours ago, Blue Flu said:

Again read it slowly and repeat. Seeking asylum is not a crime.

That's the law. 

It is when they have passed numerous other countries and tried to get to the other side of the world to a cherry picked destination.

You know this as well as me.