Guest Guest109904 Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 Hello The occupation section of the points test states: Outside Australia: skilled employment in your nominated skilled occupation or a closely related skilled occupation Does anyone know if a 'trainee solicitor' is classed as a closely related skilled occupation to a 'solicitor'? (Pretty much doing the same work). I have tried asking elsewhere but the law society direct me to border.gov.au and border.gov.au direct me to the law society! Thank you in advance for any guidance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marlou Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 If the nominated skilled occupation is that of a solicitor (who is qualified to be admitted to practise in Australia), I would expect the "closely related skilled occupation" outside of Australia to mean working a solicitor who is qualified and admitted as a solicitor in the relevant foreign country. I'd be surprised if the two years spent working as a trainee solicitor would count towards points, but that's just a gut feeling... I guess there's one way to find out and that's apply to the assessing authority? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainC Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 Generally speaking the department only considers post qualification experience when calculating your experience. There have been a number of cases in the past where people have lost points because the department did not allow any pre-qualification experience. I agree with the above post, you can apply to the assessing authority for an 'opinion' on your experience and see what they come up with. This opinion is normally accepted, but the decision rests solely with DIBP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racmac Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 Trainee solicitor will not allow you to pass your skills assessment, they don't even accept your training as work experience I'm afraid. I have just applied to have my skills assessed and I am 12 years qualified. I had to complete a form and show what experience I have in the compulsory academic subjects and the compulsory practical subjects (LPC is not equivalent) Luckily I was able to show by my 12 years experience I had covered some of the subjects by working and not necessarily studying. I have been told to study professional responsibility and accounts as practical subjects and then constitutional law as an academic subject, these are the bare minimum anyone would have to do. I have heard of others being forced to do 5 or 6 subjects. Once you have passed them you then need to apply to be admitted to the role, then you need to attend the admission ceremony in that particular state - at that point you will have positive skills assessment. Your other option may be to look at corporate or construction law and see if you can get one of the large firms to employ you in Oz however I wouldn't fancy your chances, there are lots of graduates looking for legal jobs. What Oz is short of is the more senior lawyers (according to some of the firms and recruitment people I have spoken to) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest109904 Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 Thank you for all your replies. I have been told by the relevant assessing authority that I can obtain a positive skills assessment by doing approx 5 exams. But because I have less than 3 years post-qualification experience, I can't obtain quite enough points for visa purposes. (Hence why I hoped that the 2 years as a trainee would count towards experience). It's strange that I can effectively become a Australian qualified solicitor, but not apply for a visa because I can't get enough points on the occupation/experience section? I will have to think this one through! Many thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainC Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 Thank you for all your replies. I have been told by the relevant assessing authority that I can obtain a positive skills assessment by doing approx 5 exams. But because I have less than 3 years post-qualification experience, I can't obtain quite enough points for visa purposes. (Hence why I hoped that the 2 years as a trainee would count towards experience). It's strange that I can effectively become a Australian qualified solicitor, but not apply for a visa because I can't get enough points on the occupation/experience section? I will have to think this one through! Many thanks What's your current points breakdown? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest109904 Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 Hello- for 190 visa: Age: 25 Language: 10-20 (hoping for proficient at 20) Experience: 0 (zero if trainee years don't count, 5 if they do count) Qualifications: 15 State nomination: 5 Total- worst case scenario: 55. Best case scenario: 70. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainC Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 By my reckoning, you already qualify for 189 if you can get the 20 points for English by taking an IELTS or PTE. Age - 25 Language - 20 Qualifications - 15 That's 60 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest109904 Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 Thank you CaptainC, I have a tendency to over-analyse, so your reply has calmed my stressed brain! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tornicharlie Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 Hello Anon, I'm an overseas lawyer and I first thought of going through the solicitor occupation. I had my academic credentials assessed and the NSW LPAB asked me to take 6 subjects. Then I realized i still need a PLT after those subjects. Also some unis split subjects into two separate units. My guess is to get more money from overseas lawyers looking to complete their requirements lol. You're lucky you only need to take exams. Anyway, I may be drifting off topic here but have you considered getting a skills assessment from vetassess for the occupation 'judicial and other legal professionals nec' anzsco code 271299. It is in the state sponsor list for SA, well it was open then it closed then it opened again. It is also in the ACT list but has some requirements. I got an assessment from Vetassess. Just that vetassess does not include the first year post qualification. I'm not sure how they would go about computing your pre-qualification work experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racmac Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 Hello Anon, I'm an overseas lawyer and I first thought of going through the solicitor occupation. I had my academic credentials assessed and the NSW LPAB asked me to take 6 subjects. Then I realized i still need a PLT after those subjects. Also some unis split subjects into two separate units. My guess is to get more money from overseas lawyers looking to complete their requirements lol. You're lucky you only need to take exams. Anyway, I may be drifting off topic here but have you considered getting a skills assessment from vetassess for the occupation 'judicial and other legal professionals nec' anzsco code 271299. It is in the state sponsor list for SA, well it was open then it closed then it opened again. It is also in the ACT list but has some requirements. I got an assessment from Vetassess. Just that vetassess does not include the first year post qualification. I'm not sure how they would go about computing your pre-qualification work experience. That's really interesting - having looked it says "not classified elsewhere" Would they not expect a Solicitor to go under band of Solicitor? How long did VETASSES take to assess you? This may speed up my process! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tornicharlie Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 I submitted my application on the 13th of Feb and got the result on the 22nd of May Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tornicharlie Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 My understanding is that to fall under the solicitor occupation you must have been admitted to practice law in any state or territory. The 'not elsewhere classified' is a catch all occupation. I might be wrong though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
louisella Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 Sorry - just jumping into this thread. Does anyone happen to know whether, once you have taken the addtional units (on the assumption you need to) and passed, can you then claim 10 points for the following? If so, can this be in addition to claiming points for a degree? (I'm not sure whether you can only claim for one category under the Qualifications section) An award or qualification recognised by the assessing authority in the assessment of the skilled occupation I've also read that solicitors are on the flagged list for potential removal from SOL in the future which is worrying... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tornicharlie Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 The occupation has been flagged before but the law societies opposed the proposal citing lack of solicitors due to some factors. As for claiming the additional 10 I don't have an idea about that. I have thought of asking DIBP about it but I am really into GTA V now so ...hehe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest109904 Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 Sorry - just jumping into this thread. Does anyone happen to know whether, once you have taken the addtional units (on the assumption you need to) and passed, can you then claim 10 points for the following? If so, can this be in addition to claiming points for a degree? (I'm not sure whether you can only claim for one category under the Qualifications section) An award or qualification recognised by the assessing authority in the assessment of the skilled occupation I've also read that solicitors are on the flagged list for potential removal from SOL in the future which is worrying... Hi Louisella I never thought of those extra 10 points- but it sounds possible? I wasn't aware that solicitors were on the flagged list. Is it really the case that one could spend two years and thousands of pounds in exams obtaining a positive skills assessment, only to not be able to apply for a visa? That's seems devastating! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
louisella Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 The occupation has been flagged before but the law societies opposed the proposal citing lack of solicitors due to some factors. As for claiming the additional 10 I don't have an idea about that. I have thought of asking DIBP about it but I am really into GTA V now so ...hehe Hope you enjoyed GTA V, that response did make me laugh :laugh: Thought this was an interesting read - https://www.lawcouncil.asn.au/lawcouncil/images/LCA-PDF/docs-2900-2999/2910-Skilled-Occupations-ListSOL2015-16.pdf . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
louisella Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 Hi Louisella I never thought of those extra 10 points- but it sounds possible? I wasn't aware that solicitors were on the flagged list. Is it really the case that one could spend two years and thousands of pounds in exams obtaining a positive skills assessment, only to not be able to apply for a visa? That's seems devastating! Hi anon123, I'm going to call the visa helpline later so will ask about the possibility of claiming the extra points - I'll post back on here if I get a clear answer. I suspect they'll say you can only claim for one set under the qualification section but always worth asking Re the flagged list - both solicitor and barrister are on the list (https://www.anzscosearch.com/list-flagged-occupations/) however hopefully it doesn't necessarily mean they'll be taken off this July, it just surprised me that they were flagged at all. The link I've posted in the above post makes for interesting reading. Like you say, it'd be pretty galling if you've spent the money for the extra units and it does get removed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
louisella Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 Hello The occupation section of the points test states: Outside Australia: skilled employment in your nominated skilled occupation or a closely related skilled occupation Does anyone know if a 'trainee solicitor' is classed as a closely related skilled occupation to a 'solicitor'? (Pretty much doing the same work). I have tried asking elsewhere but the law society direct me to border.gov.au and border.gov.au direct me to the law society! Thank you in advance for any guidance. Hi @anon123 Not sure if it'll help but whilst researching state sponsorship (in this case for WA), I came across this "Closely related occupations are those sharing the first four digits of the ANZSCO occupation code" From other research I have done, time during your training contract can't be counted (I wish it could as we'd be in a position to apply now) only post qualification experience Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tornicharlie Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 That's the paper I read Yes, I really enjoy GTA V even if it sucks so much of my time. I usually spend most of the time orchestrating the NPC's to commit suicide and to draw the police into a mass shoot-out with gangsters lol. I will be applying for a 190 visa by next week with the ACT as state sponsor. Even though I already had an assessment from LPAB as regards the subjects I need to study, I chose to get a skills assessment for 'other legal professionals' and apply for state sponsorship. Meanwhile, I am currently taking the required subjects to satisfy the academic requirements of the LPAB. I enrolled in a Masters degree with a very flexible curriculum. I can enroll in the subjects that I want with only 2 -3 required subjects. I thought that going down this path would be a safer bet rather than going through the direct solicitor route. If all goes well, I will get my 190 visa and would have 2 subjects left and the practical legal training part (I did not ask for exemptions but I am considering it now due to the cost of a GDLP which is around $8,000). The advantage of this path is that first, should you get state sponsorship and PR you could study the additional subjects at your leisure and at domestic rates. Second, although there are unis that cater to overseas qualified or admitted lawyers/solicitors doing so would limit you to a 20 hr per week work restriction. Good luck finding work (paid work) in the legal field with that. Some Unis split subjects just to milk more out of students. Third, the 190 visa has a shorter timeline than a 189, well at least in theory that is. Lastly, should the occupation of solicitor be stricken from the list, you may end up being an Australian solicitor with no visa. The disadvantage of this path is that you may have to spend more for skills assessment ($800). Also, Vetassess is not really that great at being consistent with skills assessments. You also need to get at least 60 points (including state sponsorship) for skilled migration. On a different note, I heard from my wife's student (a Nigerian Law graduate studying cookery now) that it is easier to get admitted in New Zealand. Once admitted you can then just go the Trans-Tasman route to become admitted in Australia. Good luck to us all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caro Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 TorniCharlie, could you get your PR?, I`m asking cuz lately I`ve been considering to do the same than you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tornicharlie Posted April 25, 2018 Share Posted April 25, 2018 I got my PR, state sponsored by the ACT 2 yrs ago. Check SA as well. On 2/1/2018 at 17:40, Caro said: TorniCharlie, could you get your PR?, I`m asking cuz lately I`ve been considering to do the same than you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claudia Posted September 14, 2018 Share Posted September 14, 2018 Hi Caro, have you started your process? I wan to do the same, any advice would be very helpfull. Thx! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claudia Posted September 14, 2018 Share Posted September 14, 2018 TorniCharlie, did you do the assessment by yourself or with an agent? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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