flag of convenience Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 some truths in there. You'll certainly inflame some of the Ego's on here I can't for the life of me see why. Are others so insecure with their own decision making? Unable to come to the realisation there are many ways to look at the same thing and arrive at different conclusions. All remarks made are dog eared in times used. Many have more than a grain of truth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 See I told you so :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 Point taken. I can understand someone being unhappy but blaming and slagging off a whole nation and its people is a bit over the top. I don't see it as more than a generalisation of specific terms of reference. People do it all the time with regards to everywhere. Be it a newspaper columnist or a personal critique. It hardly matters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LKC Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 Every school child is taught that European history only really goes back to about 1787 when the first convicts arrived. So of course there is going to be limited culture, arts and HISTORY here. Cannot believe it took OP ten whole years to work that one out. And they have the audacity to say people who settle here happily are uneducated! Also by OP saying that all migrants are stupid for liking living here and dismissing indigenous history……..I reckon they are being extremely inflammatory and obnoxious with the purpose of looking for reactions. Failing that, if this is a real post – I feel very sorry for the OP – as they seem very bitter and unhappy. I'm not sure that this is entirely true. I am currently studying Ancient History and Classics as a distance student at uni, and via a local Facebook page have helped quite a number of HSC students who are stuck on their Ancient History HSC homework, showing that history it is taught in schools at an advanced level and covering dates prior to The First Fleet. Whilst Australia itself may not have the sort of rich history that Europe has, if you think of the people who inhabit Australia, they have a rich and varied history. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bungo Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 I'm not sure that this is entirely true. I am currently studying Ancient History and Classics as a distance student at uni, and via a local Facebook page have helped quite a number of HSC students who are stuck on their Ancient History HSC homework, showing that history it is taught in schools at an advanced level and covering dates prior to The First Fleet. Whilst Australia itself may not have the sort of rich history that Europe has, if you think of the people who inhabit Australia, they have a rich and varied history. I will never understand those comments about Australia having no history or culture anyway. It has its own history and culture and even last week is history. I have always enjoyed history a great deal, I did at school and still do. Your course sounds excellent. Anyway I find the Australian story really very interesting, including the arrival of Europeans and how the country as it is today was built. I equally enjoy reading about the Plantagenets and Tudors. I can see no reason to be competitive over history. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacaranda Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 Point taken. I can understand someone being unhappy but blaming and slagging off a whole nation and its people is a bit over the top. Yes and posters from either country that they are leaving sometimes do generalise,and say the whole country is a ****hole,when in reality,they probably really mean "Actually just the bit I come/came from is,and I am the creator of my own reality"!Anyway compassion is needed either way I feel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starlight7 Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 We were academics and quite definitely 'middle class'. I belong to a poetry group where they are all Aussies and they nearly all have a much wider education than I have- I am talking classical here. They understand Latin,( I only got as far as 'o' level Latin) Greek and what they don't know about philosophical ideas you could write on a postage stamp. Now I studied phil for 4 years as a minor in my degree- they leave me for dead. I am talking ordinary people here, not teachers or lecturers, so those who talk condescendingly about uneducated, philistine Australians have got it seriously and badly wrong. The joke is on them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kungfustu Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 (edited) Fair enough. I used to think much the same. To a certain extent there is some truth in it, but it is a big generalisation.I come from an affluent part of England, had a well paid job and all that. It took a while and a LOT of sorting wheat from chaff in terms of things like friends, house, job, entertainment etc but now, 7 years in, I'm as happy as a pig in the proverbial. I think a lot depends on the people you hang around with TBH. These days my friends (EW aside) are pretty much all Aussies. I still love Britain and miss it occasionally, love going back there for holidays and could see myself retiring in either place. If its generalisations you want.....you have come to the right place. I see it a bit like living past 80.......if you can get to 64 you have a greater chance of making it to 80 than you have if you are in your 50's......I read that once somewhere, can't remember but apparently 64 is the biggie where lots of us slip off our perches! So if you can get through the first 3 to 5 years unscathed I think most folk are in it for the long run.....like yourself.....I still feel that those first 3 to 5 years are the real crunch time and unless you have something nice to return too you may as well stay put. Anyway....show me some more "tony vids" they are funny..... Edited October 14, 2015 by kungfustu added a tony! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speakeasy Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 (edited) As a long time reader, first time poster I decided I should finally contribute my thoughts on why I'm leaving. Brace yourself if you have willingly assimilated into Aus life :wacko:.My situation: Professional, married (not aussie) with kid, live in Sydney, seen most of Aus due to job. Been here 10 years and will be leaving within the next 12 months. I find the thought of staying here forever very depressing and for some time I've felt like I'm isolated and missing out on real life somewhere else in the real world and that every concept/service/product/event/etc is just a lousy copy of something out of UK/Europe/America i.e. there is no original cutting edge thinking/innovation in Aus. Being from UK, I find the underlying problem with Australia is that it feels like an incomplete country and lacking in soul - scratch beneath the glossy plastic surface of their immigration brochure and there is nothing further to see. Incomplete in that the lack of history, constant dumbing down of everything and nannying by government creates a shallow existence for the locals who seem to do as they're told, never question, think little and only focus on material new stuff. This in turn creates a majority of individuals that, to me, are like apathetic cardboard cut outs of real people - they lack a fully developed personality and their goals are very simplistic and materialistic. If you have personality here, you will intimidate a lot of locals during conversation (if you can actually get conversation momentum going) - quite easy to spot as their eyes glaze over. They think personality & character means adopting some over animated wooden caricature of the white anglo nation’s expectations of, for example, a footballer, or slapstick comedian, shock jock, tough guy, news reporter, intellectual and so on i.e. lots of people with the same wooden personality. You only need to look at the TV personalities to confirm it – they’re second rate. People who love Australia are usually a combination of thick skinned, materialistic, lack good taste, don’t appreciate culture/the arts/history (indigenous history is not aussie)/architecture or have come from a lower socio economic background/place in their home country which they resent/blame (chip on shoulder type - say home country has "gone to the dogs" , etc). The latter are the aussies' favourite immigrant because they don't challenge them and actually (and I think it really demonstrates a weak mind) try to adopt the aussie accent/swagger. The parochialism, blind nationalism and ignorant “aus is best” mentality is also intolerable as is the nanny state approach to everything which the locals just seem to accept. Time to start planning a well deserved escape (and no, I won't let the door hit me on the way out for all you hilarious types). No. come on... tell us the REAL reason... Indigenous history has nothing to do with Australians..??? No, it has everything to do with the English if you must know.. I guess you should have developed the thick skin you'll need when you move back to Britain. Edited October 15, 2015 by speakeasy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zack Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 As a long time reader, first time poster I decided I should finally contribute my thoughts on why I'm leaving. Brace yourself if you have willingly assimilated into Aus life :wacko:.My situation: Professional, married (not aussie) with kid, live in Sydney, seen most of Aus due to job. Been here 10 years and will be leaving within the next 12 months. I find the thought of staying here forever very depressing and for some time I've felt like I'm isolated and missing out on real life somewhere else in the real world and that every concept/service/product/event/etc is just a lousy copy of something out of UK/Europe/America i.e. there is no original cutting edge thinking/innovation in Aus. Being from UK, I find the underlying problem with Australia is that it feels like an incomplete country and lacking in soul - scratch beneath the glossy plastic surface of their immigration brochure and there is nothing further to see. Incomplete in that the lack of history, constant dumbing down of everything and nannying by government creates a shallow existence for the locals who seem to do as they're told, never question, think little and only focus on material new stuff. This in turn creates a majority of individuals that, to me, are like apathetic cardboard cut outs of real people - they lack a fully developed personality and their goals are very simplistic and materialistic. If you have personality here, you will intimidate a lot of locals during conversation (if you can actually get conversation momentum going) - quite easy to spot as their eyes glaze over. They think personality & character means adopting some over animated wooden caricature of the white anglo nation’s expectations of, for example, a footballer, or slapstick comedian, shock jock, tough guy, news reporter, intellectual and so on i.e. lots of people with the same wooden personality. You only need to look at the TV personalities to confirm it – they’re second rate. People who love Australia are usually a combination of thick skinned, materialistic, lack good taste, don’t appreciate culture/the arts/history (indigenous history is not aussie)/architecture or have come from a lower socio economic background/place in their home country which they resent/blame (chip on shoulder type - say home country has "gone to the dogs" , etc). The latter are the aussies' favourite immigrant because they don't challenge them and actually (and I think it really demonstrates a weak mind) try to adopt the aussie accent/swagger. The parochialism, blind nationalism and ignorant “aus is best” mentality is also intolerable as is the nanny state approach to everything which the locals just seem to accept. Time to start planning a well deserved escape (and no, I won't let the door hit me on the way out for all you hilarious types). Well Written you have hit the Nail right on the Head. Although I have been here for 29 years,i have never called Australia home.The Ones on here that say, when they took Australian Citizenship, it completely changed them. I find that Bazar, And the Ones that Right down the Rules to follow if you want to make it in Australia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacaranda Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 Interesting that people can't accept that this is the experience of the OP.Yours might be different,and that's ok isn't it?:err: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzukiscottie Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 Interesting that people can't accept that this is the experience of the OP.Yours might be different,and that's ok isn't it?:err: Absolutely OK. Just as it is for people to have a right to reply on an open discussion forum. :smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Que Sera Sera Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 (edited) We were academics and quite definitely 'middle class'. I belong to a poetry group where they are all Aussies and they nearly all have a much wider education than I have- I am talking classical here. They understand Latin,( I only got as far as 'o' level Latin) Greek and what they don't know about philosophical ideas you could write on a postage stamp. Now I studied phil for 4 years as a minor in my degree- they leave me for dead. I am talking ordinary people here, not teachers or lecturers, so those who talk condescendingly about uneducated, philistine Australians have got it seriously and badly wrong. The joke is on them. I think a lot of the pain that some feel, is that a normal working class blue collar worker has probably a better than average chance of earning a better wage and affording a better life here, so they are to be derided as thats just not cricket and intellectuals should always earn more and have better opportunities than your average non degree tradie. Complete snobbery. Of course intellectuals exist here, they just aren't so conceited as to look down at those that aren't. In the main, and in my experience! Edited October 15, 2015 by Que Sera, Sera Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacaranda Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 Absolutely OK. Just as it is for people to have a right to reply on an open discussion forum. :smile: I'm not disputing that Suzuki,of course everyone has a right to reply.Personally,I accept that what the OP has written in their post is true for them,based on their own experiences,and how they were feeling on the day they decided to write that post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fifi69 Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 If its generalisations you want.....you have come to the right place. I see it a bit like living past 80.......if you can get to 64 you have a greater chance of making it to 80 than you have if you are in your 50's......I read that once somewhere, can't remember but apparently 64 is the biggie where lots of us slip off our perches! So if you can get through the first 3 to 5 years unscathed I think most folk are in it for the long run.....like yourself.....I still feel that those first 3 to 5 years are the real crunch time and unless you have something nice to return too you may as well stay put. Anyway....show me some more "tony vids" they are funny..... Im not sure what this has to do with the original post....but I agree. When I was younger I watched as my fit and healthy grandad died, my nana is still alive, not that she has any life!! my dad too died just as he had set retired plans in place. so me, I've had great life and plan to do more of the same. I'm not going to worry about retirement, but I do plan to stop working at 55, just cos I want to travel and enjoy life. Might happen, might not. What I'm not willing to do is work myself into the grave, just so someone else can get richer. Personally, I only want to get old, if I can still enjoy life. Been in too many old age homes, to know that's not living. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 We were academics and quite definitely 'middle class'. I belong to a poetry group where they are all Aussies and they nearly all have a much wider education than I have- I am talking classical here. They understand Latin,( I only got as far as 'o' level Latin) Greek and what they don't know about philosophical ideas you could write on a postage stamp. Now I studied phil for 4 years as a minor in my degree- they leave me for dead. I am talking ordinary people here, not teachers or lecturers, so those who talk condescendingly about uneducated, philistine Australians have got it seriously and badly wrong. The joke is on them. Yep. Just your rootin, tooting guitar pickin run of the mill Aussies then. I don't get it either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harpodom Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 We were academics and quite definitely 'middle class'. I belong to a poetry group where they are all Aussies and they nearly all have a much wider education than I have- I am talking classical here. They understand Latin,( I only got as far as 'o' level Latin) Greek and what they don't know about philosophical ideas you could write on a postage stamp. Now I studied phil for 4 years as a minor in my degree- they leave me for dead. I am talking ordinary people here, not teachers or lecturers, so those who talk condescendingly about uneducated, philistine Australians have got it seriously and badly wrong. The joke is on them. What do your philosopher mates think of locking up kids in offshore detention centres? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 Fair enough. I used to think much the same. To a certain extent there is some truth in it, but it is a big generalisation. I come from an affluent part of England, had a well paid job and all that. It took a while and a LOT of sorting wheat from chaff in terms of things like friends, house, job, entertainment etc but now, 7 years in, I'm as happy as a pig in the proverbial. I think a lot depends on the people you hang around with TBH. These days my friends (EW aside) are pretty much all Aussies. I still love Britain and miss it occasionally, love going back there for holidays and could see myself retiring in either place. If you retire in Australia mate, I'll SKYPE you from PB's local in Stratford. Just don't expect me to visit!! :smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bristolman Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 I think a lot of the pain that some feel, is that a normal working class blue collar worker has probably a better than average chance of earning a better wage and affording a better life here, so they are to be derided as thats just not cricket and intellectuals should always earn more and have better opportunities than your average non degree tradie. Complete snobbery. Of course intellectuals exist here, they just aren't so conceited as to look down at those that aren't. In the main, and in my experience! So many generalisations and inaccuracies lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amibovered Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 I still love Britain and miss it occasionally, love going back there for holidays and could see myself retiring in either place. I imagine we'll retire in Australia, that's OK, if we can retire to Tasmania I'll be content with that, I'll always miss the UK but when you're in a mixed marriage it's just part of life ain't it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Que Sera Sera Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 So many generalisations and inaccuracies lol I did say in my experience so like the others who have defended the OP, the only person who would know if there were inaccuracies in my experience would be me BM.:yes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 I figured the op lost all credibility when Zack agreed with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newjez Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 Well Written you have hit the Nail right on the Head. Although I have been here for 29 years,i have never called Australia home.The Ones on here that say, when they took Australian Citizenship, it completely changed them. I find that Bazar, And the Ones that Right down the Rules to follow if you want to make it in Australia. I'm an Australian who has lived in the UK for nearly twenty years. I don't call it home. Even my English wife calls Australia home. But we quite like the UK too. We wouldn't be here if we didn't. Can't imagine spending more than a minute in a place I despised. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JockinTas Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 I figured the op lost all credibility when Zack agreed with it. :wink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starlight7 Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 What do your philosopher mates think of locking up kids in offshore detention centres? Another topic- don't want to derail this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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