newjez Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 Wow, drinking raw milk to anarchy..that is quite a leap lol It's certainly child abuse if you feed it to your kids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bristolman Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 Anarchy is: a state of disorder due to absence or non-recognition of authority or other controlling systems. Yes, thank you I kind of knew that already lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bound4Tassie Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 Kids who grew up on farms always had milk fresh from the cow and they used to give school kids who visited the farm a glass of it. Then of course h&s banned all that. If proper udder hygiene is maintained and the vessel it is milked into is clean , I don't see an issue with drinking it fresh. But I don't think storing it like that and selling in shops raw would be so good. You can keep human expressed milk safely in the fridge for 5 days and give it to an infant so long as all the equipment is sterilized . Why would a cow's breast milk be any different? ( not saying give cows milk to an infant obviously!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bound4Tassie Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 (edited) It is illegal in Australia. End of. You demand the right to break the law? If we all do that, they you are promoting anarchy. Well no laws would ever change if we had no right to protest! Edited July 22, 2015 by Bound4Tassie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grecia Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 No problem. You keep filling in your entries for the Darwin award. Never mind unpasteurised milk - what about unpasteurised cheese? If you eat cheese in France you run a 1 in 5 risk of consuming a 'deadly' unpasteurised variety. Buy some in a deli or restaurant and the danger is likely to be closer to 100% :shocked: Geez, think of all those 66 million "really stupid people" in France munching their delicious way to an early grave, or - to use your words "filling in their entries for the Darwin award". All because they are too dumb to look up the Wikipedia entry for pasteurisation (even though they invented it)... If only they would see sense and tuck into a slab of good ol' Australian "Tasty". It's 100% safe. Not too sure if it's 100% cheese though - think there might be a bit of play-doh or plasticine in the mix there. It's certainly 100% foul (and 100% mis-named). Actually, I think I'll start my own change.org petition to ban the stuff. But first I'm going to play "cheese Russian roulette" with a nice slice of aged Manchego! :wink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bound4Tassie Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 Never mind unpasteurised milk - what about unpasteurised cheese? If you eat cheese in France you run a 1 in 5 risk of consuming a 'deadly' unpasteurised variety. Buy some in a deli or restaurant and the danger is likely to be closer to 100% :shocked: Geez, think of all those 66 million "really stupid people" in France munching their delicious way to an early grave, or - to use your words "filling in their entries for the Darwin award". All because they are too dumb to look up the Wikipedia entry for pasteurisation (even though they invented it)... If only they would see sense and tuck into a slab of good ol' Australian "Tasty". It's 100% safe. Not too sure if it's 100% cheese though - think there might be a bit of play-doh or plasticine in the mix there. It's certainly 100% foul (and 100% mis-named). Actually, I think I'll start my own change.org petition to ban the stuff. But first I'm going to play "cheese Russian roulette" with a nice slice of aged Manchego! :wink: Brilliant! I choked on a mini cheddar! Lol! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marisawright Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 I do agree that for 1000s of years we seemed to manage with milk straight from the cow. I do feel we process food, I include milk, way too much. I'm not saying milk shouldn't be pasteurised but with so much nowadays we are just being molly coddled too much. Milk years ago used to be like cream now it is like water. I agree, the milk in Southampton is horribly watery. I always drank low fat milk in Australia but it's not the same in the UK. Skim milk looks positively grey and semi-skimmed isn't much better. I'm experimenting with whole milk brands to see if I can find a decent one. I don't know if you heard about the "permeate scandal" in Australia recently. Basically, milk distributors were adding permeate to "bulk up" milk. Permeate is not harmful but there was such a stink about it, some producers stopped adding it and now advertise their milk as "permeate free". Now, permeate is thin watery stuff - so I'm wondering how much of it British producers are adding to milk, maybe that's why it tastes so watery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boganbear Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 We used to have sterilised milk which is boiled milk. It was hard to get but it is meant to be safer than pasturised milk. it tasted much creamier than pasturised milk but all of my rellies brought their own milk when they stayed as they didn't like the taste. I am sure that milk straight from the cow is pretty safe but pasturisation and sterilisation have been practiced for over 150 years in the west and thousands of years elsewhere. there is a very good reason for this so if you want to drink raw milk then you are putting your health at risk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peach Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 [h=1]Toddler dies, four children seriously ill after drinking raw cow's milk[/h] Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/toddler-dies-four-children-seriously-ill-after-drinking-raw-cows-milk-20141210-124lx8.html#ixzz3geioFsVL Raw milk drinking is up there with refusing to vaccinate the kids... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest51810 Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 I was brought up on a farm and drank milk straight from the cow. We had a little Jersey cow and we had lots of fresh cream too. Mum used to make butter from the cream. Lucky buggar, I love jersey milk. I cant go near it now :cry: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainC Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 (edited) I think that the OP has possibly confused the process of pasteurisation with ultra heat treating (UHT) when he talks about killing the nutrients. Modern Pasteurisation is done at 72C for only 15 seconds which is a fairly low temperature (a lot lower than its boiling point which is just above 100C), so by boiling raw milk at home it is destroying almost all of the nutrients. UHT is flash heated at between 140 and 145C. Added: reading back over my post I think I just bored myself to death. Sorry. Edited July 22, 2015 by CaptainC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARYROSE02 Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 Well no laws would ever change if we had no right to protest! To a certain extent, yes, but if every citizen in a country disobeyed the laws of the land, the land would descend into........? What if every motorist refused to stop at red lights, or stop signs, or give way at roundabouts, for instance, because they all resented having to do those things? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARYROSE02 Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 Toddler dies, four children seriously ill after drinking raw cow's milk Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/toddler-dies-four-children-seriously-ill-after-drinking-raw-cows-milk-20141210-124lx8.html#ixzz3geioFsVL Raw milk drinking is up there with refusing to vaccinate the kids... What do all those doctors and medical authorities know anyway!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARYROSE02 Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 I agree, the milk in Southampton is horribly watery. I always drank low fat milk in Australia but it's not the same in the UK. Skim milk looks positively grey and semi-skimmed isn't much better. I'm experimenting with whole milk brands to see if I can find a decent one. I don't know if you heard about the "permeate scandal" in Australia recently. Basically, milk distributors were adding permeate to "bulk up" milk. Permeate is not harmful but there was such a stink about it, some producers stopped adding it and now advertise their milk as "permeate free". Now, permeate is thin watery stuff - so I'm wondering how much of it British producers are adding to milk, maybe that's why it tastes so watery. Southampton? Are you living there now? Which part!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newjez Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 (edited) Never mind unpasteurised milk - what about unpasteurised cheese? If you eat cheese in France you run a 1 in 5 risk of consuming a 'deadly' unpasteurised variety. Buy some in a deli or restaurant and the danger is likely to be closer to 100% :shocked: Geez, think of all those 66 million "really stupid people" in France munching their delicious way to an early grave, or - to use your words "filling in their entries for the Darwin award". All because they are too dumb to look up the Wikipedia entry for pasteurisation (even though they invented it)... If only they would see sense and tuck into a slab of good ol' Australian "Tasty". It's 100% safe. Not too sure if it's 100% cheese though - think there might be a bit of play-doh or plasticine in the mix there. It's certainly 100% foul (and 100% mis-named). Actually, I think I'll start my own change.org petition to ban the stuff. But first I'm going to play "cheese Russian roulette" with a nice slice of aged Manchego! :wink: Depends on the cheese water content. Drying controls the bacteria. That's why they don't recommend soft cheese for pregnant women, children, chemo patients etc. http://www.eurosurveillance.org/ViewArticle.aspx?ArticleId=19528 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-41657/The-main-types-food-poisoning.html http://www.foodpoisonjournal.com/food-recall/french-cheese-recalled-due-to-salmonella/ http://articles.latimes.com/1999/apr/28/food/fo-31745 https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.mdpi.com/2072-6651/7/3/997/pdf&ved=0CDEQFjAGOApqFQoTCKuM2r3k78YCFQah2wodEzcErg&usg=AFQjCNGbxX8ERVvg6yzWxoOc_PFtNws-rQ&sig2=q2r5QtP8m8J_T2KFbKNuyg You also need to consider that there is a fair amount of salt added to cheese, that you wouldn't add to milk. And you people worry about sharks, more danger at the deli counter. Edited July 22, 2015 by newjez Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newjez Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 I agree, the milk in Southampton is horribly watery. I always drank low fat milk in Australia but it's not the same in the UK. Skim milk looks positively grey and semi-skimmed isn't much better. I'm experimenting with whole milk brands to see if I can find a decent one. I don't know if you heard about the "permeate scandal" in Australia recently. Basically, milk distributors were adding permeate to "bulk up" milk. Permeate is not harmful but there was such a stink about it, some producers stopped adding it and now advertise their milk as "permeate free". Now, permeate is thin watery stuff - so I'm wondering how much of it British producers are adding to milk, maybe that's why it tastes so watery. I've drunk semi skimmed in both countries and it tastes the same. Where are you buying it from? Have to check the bottles in asda as I've seen bottles unsealed where it looks like someone took a swig. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 A child was killed recently in Victoria after drinking raw milk and many others have been hospitalised. This is why the ban was introduced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Que Sera Sera Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 I think there are lots of risks we've taken foodwise in the past but this was before knowledge. We all should have a great diet now and milk is not an absolute staple, it's just not an issue as far as I can see, the Government has banned something that clearly must be dangerous , they don't ban foods for the fun of it. I think it's just a case of its banned so I'll moan to be honest . As for taking risks with pregnancy and children , very very silly no excuse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/toddler-dies-four-children-seriously-ill-after-drinking-raw-cows-milk-20141210-124lx8.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nats Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 (edited) No problem. You keep filling in your entries for the Darwin award. I wasn't going to come back and check this but here I am. I have a healthcare background, I am pro vaccines, I am all too aware of the risks of unpasteurised milk and would therefore never recommend it to others and most certainly not children. That said, however, people including myself can & should be able to eat/ drink whatever they like, knowing the risks - making informed choices. My point is, in the highly unlikely event that I may have consumed contaminated milk, I'm confident that as a healthy adult my body could deal with it and the human body (female in particular) has an amazing ability to protect it's offspring from potential harm whilst Breastfeeding, not that you will ever fully comprehend that. My stance on this thread is that there are far more worthy causes worth petitioning for. Edited July 22, 2015 by CaptainC Edited content Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seraphim Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 Much as I dislike these 'keyboard wars' people seem to have...here we go, as I have to deal with this at work... Please please if you are, or claim to be 'healthcare professionals, get your data from peer reviewed journals, not 'googling a bit'. Any muppet can write anything on line (as I am writing now, hopefully muppetless!) http://cid.oxfordjournals.org/content/48/1/93.short Raw milk IS more dangerous than treated milk (not my opinion, it's an epidemiologically determined statistic, and these authors would have been content either way as long as the evidence was robust, they have no interest in the outcome other than that it is accurate and valid), the reason it's not recommended is that some of the bacteria can pass the placental barriers into the unborn child, and place stresses on people who are either sharing their immune system, or who have reduced immune responses. And yes, even perfectly healthy people can get ill from it, or maybe not, it's a bit like Russian roulette for your gut! If you want to drink milk 'like they do at home', then live 'at home'. it's banned for retail sale for a reason. If you own your own cow and want to drink the milk raw, there is not a piece of legislation to prevent you from doing so, but you have to choose to do that. if you chose to live an urban lifestyle and don't own a milk cow, then tough, you won't have the opportunity to drink it! The option is there, but you up your risk of food illness (which I'm guessing you'd expect the taxpayer to fund a cure/treatment for) then not in this country, while these laws are in force! https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2282302/?page=1 You lose between 5-20% of 'some' nutritional value of milk, but you don't generally rely on milk for vitamin c anyway, at least, not in a unbalanced diet. Also, boiling aka 'sterilisation' loses BOTH more taste (subjective) and nutrients (established fact) than low temperature log 5 reduction pasteurisation does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nats Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 Much as I dislike these 'keyboard wars' people seem to have...here we go, as I have to deal with this at work... Please please if you are, or claim to be 'healthcare professionals, get your data from peer reviewed journals, not 'googling a bit'. Any muppet can write anything on line (as I am writing now, hopefully muppetless!) . Please don't bother to target me, I am capable of making decisions in my own best interests as I believe others are entitled too. The laws are in place to prevent wide access to raw milk, although if people really want it, they'll find it. I'm not a lover of milk at any cost, unless laced with chocolate! I admit to using raw milk in one instance whereby my milk supply was compromised, my decision and I don't regret it. People make poor health choices all the time, from convenience food to smoking cigarettes and drinking alcohol. These are what drain the healthcare system and tax payers money. Whilst it is important we have guidelines in place to protect children etc, as adults we should be able to make our own choices without being chastised by strangers, such as no sushi in pregnancy, no cheese.. tell that to the French and Japanese, seriously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARYROSE02 Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 Never mind unpasteurised milk - what about unpasteurised cheese? If you eat cheese in France you run a 1 in 5 risk of consuming a 'deadly' unpasteurised variety. Buy some in a deli or restaurant and the danger is likely to be closer to 100% :shocked: Geez, think of all those 66 million "really stupid people" in France munching their delicious way to an early grave, or - to use your words "filling in their entries for the Darwin award". All because they are too dumb to look up the Wikipedia entry for pasteurisation (even though they invented it)... If only they would see sense and tuck into a slab of good ol' Australian "Tasty". It's 100% safe. Not too sure if it's 100% cheese though - think there might be a bit of play-doh or plasticine in the mix there. It's certainly 100% foul (and 100% mis-named). Actually, I think I'll start my own change.org petition to ban the stuff. But first I'm going to play "cheese Russian roulette" with a nice slice of aged Manchego! :wink: Why not play "French" Roulette on their roads and ponder why, with an similar population to Britain, twice as many people die on their roads? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rammygirl Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 Ok so I grew up on unpasteurised milk in Lancashire, it was delivered to the doorstep on unrefrigerated carts ( yes even in summer) as 'green top' milk. It came from tuberculosis tested local cows. We only stopped drinking this when it was phased out in the UK. No one suffered until they re located some people as overspill from a council estate in Manchester, these people had never had unpasteurised milk before and a few fell ill. As with many things these days we are not allowed to take our own risks in case someone else gets the blame! now I drink pasteurised, homogenised milk, but it doesn't really taste the same! to the OP I think you will find that boiling your milk is no better than buying pasteurised in terms of nutrition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JockinTas Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 (edited) I think there are lots of risks we've taken foodwise in the past but this was before knowledge. We all should have a great diet now and milk is not an absolute staple, it's just not an issue as far as I can see, the Government has banned something that clearly must be dangerous , they don't ban foods for the fun of it. I think it's just a case of its banned so I'll moan to be honest . As for taking risks with pregnancy and children , very very silly no excuse. Fast food is also dangerous and should be banned :cute: Most of it is greasy muck. Edited July 23, 2015 by calNgary fixed quote Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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