Parley Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 Alternatively; funny how people from UK can settle in Eastern Europe but an Aussie can't. Nothing to stop Australia and the EU coming to some sort of agreement. If they both wanted to. Was thinking more along the lines of Commonwealth countries agreeing a common travel area. Forming their own union, similar but separate from the EU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slean Wolfhead Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 Too broad a brush again, and a tadge racist. But lets not wonder too far from the OP intent, UK capacity It's not too broad a brush, this is the basis on which the UK Chancellor makes his budget. You talk about "some", but you don't base economics on that because it's impossible to get granularity at that level. Politics is broad brush and everybody has to try and be successful within those broad rules. A French worker (who could be from Timbuktu) can take Friday off and still produce more than a British worker (who may also be from Timbuktu); an Italian worker (also from Timbuktu) is 9% more productive than his Malinese brother, who's working for Britain. http://www.economist.com/news/britain/21646235-if-britain-cannot-get-more-its-legion-cheap-workers-recovery-will-stall-bargain?fsrc=scn/tw/te/pe/ed/bargainbasement Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzukiscottie Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 Was thinking more along the lines of Commonwealth countries agreeing a common travel area.Forming their own union, similar but separate from the EU. A commonwealth free travel area. Wouldn't that just have the same "issues" for the UK as the OP is concerned about? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thom Posted March 22, 2015 Author Share Posted March 22, 2015 Ok, Slean, I see, (but do not agree with,) your points. But will not pursue them as I think we'd head too far off topic. Shake? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slean Wolfhead Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 Ok, so if these "regional visas" were introduced, would that be fair? Say, for instance, Fort William if that were to be the place where immigrants were to be mandated to live and work. Would that not change the essential nature of the area, and the population? I've spent many a happy climbing holiday in the area, and the thought of it becoming another Birmingham doesn't exactly fill me with joy. Didn't Westminister Council outsource their HR function to near there some years ago, compulsorily, with staff transferring? OK, the intention was obviously to make staff resign so they could replace them with cheaper Scots (who may be from Timbuktu), but internal migration has already started. Look at the BBC and Manchester. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 A commonwealth free travel area. Wouldn't that just have the same "issues" for the UK as the OP is concerned about? Probably not. You might have more leave than come. But The Commonwealth used to mean something. Our countries have a lot more in common than UK and Romania. There would not be the cultural problems that there are with the EU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzukiscottie Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 (edited) What commonwealth countries are you referring to? All of them or just some of them? Edited March 22, 2015 by Suzukiscottie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 Pretty much all current commonwealth countries. But not Hong Kong of course. Presume they are not in it anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slean Wolfhead Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 Ok, Slean, I see, (but do not agree with,) your points. But will not pursue them as I think we'd head too far off topic. Shake? I don't mind disagreeing, it's just a discussion. I think the UK has it's head to close to the paper and has a view that's too insular to be successful. Change is inevitable and constant. We used to lead this change and make the impossible happen, but now we're incapable of responding to it or even imagining it. To think that we're not capable of expanding by 10 million in a world of 4 billion is a good example of that, but as i said, I think we'd really struggle to make it happen anyway because we don't really have an achievable plan for anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thom Posted March 22, 2015 Author Share Posted March 22, 2015 Slean, "capable" isn't really my intent though, "desirable" was more where I was heading. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrutineer Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 When should we start the cull? At dawn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzukiscottie Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 Pretty much all current commonwealth countries.But not Hong Kong of course. Presume they are not in it anyway. Potential immigrants from North America, Central America, Caribbean, South and East and Atlantic Afica, the Indian Peninsula, Asia, Oceania and the Pacific Islands wouldn't have cultural differences between their home country and the UK? But other European countries which pretty much share a "European culture" with the UK do bring cultural problems? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest51810 Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 Funny how people from Eastern Europe can settle freely in the UK but an Aussie can't. I was reading the other day that there's some people campaigning for that to be changed within the commonwealth. Not sure if it'll ever happen but they are sending petitions to all the governments. I think boris mentioned something about trying to help aussies in London so it would only be fair if it was vice versa. It's a bit crap that Aussies can come to the UK for 2 years but Brits have to slave on a farm etc for their second year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest51810 Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 Oops didn't read the last page before posting that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srg73 Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 Unfortunately most people reach their opinions by reading and believing the press either right or left wing. Having worked in London for many years with various people diagnosing and managing the repair of structural building defects (so no social boundaries), I believe there is a problem with over population but most alarmingly with a sub culture. I have seen 2 bedroom properties populated by 20 people, people living without electricity etc. The main issue for me is the sub culture, people coming to London either illegally or legally and working virtually as slaves, trapped by poverty and not being able to better themselves due to language or cultural differences. These people seem to not count in left wing surveys where everything is sunny and like the Yorkshire Dales. The far right wing, the whole of the UK is like East London, ghettos with potential terrorists around every corner. The truth is somewhere in the middle. In conclusion I believe public services are creaking, housing is obviously behind demand and society is generally accepting but is happy for the sub culture slaves to do many unseen jobs which is wrong! I believe UK need to pause, take stock and decide on a route forward which may include closing borders for a while although this would require leaving EU. My final point is that you mention UK to most people in Aus and they always talk about London. UK has so much more to offer and needs to promote this. S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimithechew Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 In regards to services, I wouldn't say they are creaking I would say they have cracked. It doesn't help that only a few years ago (before I left the UK) I saw a doco on people who were trying to get off the rock n roll and they were actually better off on the sausage roll then doing a minimum wage job. Which lefts face it is really all they will be able to get until they work there way up. I believe parents have a lot to do with it and once a kid gets into their mid to late teens its generally too late to try and put them on the straight and narrow. Thus the circle continues. Why would you bother to work if you don't see your peers, parents and grandparents not working? In regards to why London is heaving: You do know why Dick Whittington came to London... That still applies to this day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul1Perth Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 One of the reasons we left the UK was we thought it was overcrowded and getting worse. On our visits back we've seen it get worse and worse. Just round the village where we used to live the streets seem to be clogged with cars parked half up on the causeway, on both sides of the road so what was once a 2 lane road is one way. Drivers get really frustrated when both people try to squeeze through together. Driving into Stockport from where we used to live in Gee Cross was a nightmare when we left, it's a lot worse now. The cops seem to have given up with the parking rules. I'm sure there were rules about parking when double white lines were in play, parking both side of a narrow road was a no-no, near junctions, opposite T junctions. People seem to park anywhere they can get a space now and have to fold their mirrors back so they don't get smashed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul1Perth Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 Ok, so if these "regional visas" were introduced, would that be fair? Say, for instance, Fort William if that were to be the place where immigrants were to be mandated to live and work. Would that not change the essential nature of the area, and the population? I've spent many a happy climbing holiday in the area, and the thought of it becoming another Birmingham doesn't exactly fill me with joy. It would never work. People go where the work is, not vice versa. Remember the days when loads of people were out of work and Norman Tebbit's answer was "get on your bike".:laugh: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul1Perth Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 Potential immigrants from North America, Central America, Caribbean, South and East and Atlantic Afica, the Indian Peninsula, Asia, Oceania and the Pacific Islands wouldn't have cultural differences between their home country and the UK? But other European countries which pretty much share a "European culture" with the UK do bring cultural problems? That's the problem with the EU (or one of them) there is no shared European culture and really no-one wants one. It's a notional concept that's bandied around by politicians and people in Brussels. More in hope that people will start believing they are all in one basket. Look how long French and English people have loved to hate each other, sure they get along, I've been to France lots of times, never had any problems with French people and have had good times. They are different though. Their culture is different. I've been watching Tony Robinson's program "walking through history" and it just showed me how little I knew about British history. I was amazed that an English king was also in charge of Brittany for years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thom Posted March 25, 2015 Author Share Posted March 25, 2015 http://www.migrationwatchuk.com/briefing-paper/11.37 Summary 1. Voters overwhelmingly want to see immigration reduced – a view shared amongst previous migrants and BME (Black and Minority Ethnic) voters as well. Policies to reduce immigration are therefore not likely in themselves to deter BME voters from voting for any party, including the Conservatives, as has been suggested by a new lobby group Bright Blue. It is however essential that politicians are sensitive to the views of migrant and BME communities who are more likely to view previous immigration as positive, but share concerns over its present scale. The debate about reducing immigration must therefore be respectful of the contribution made by previous waves of migrants to the UK and be conducted in the right tone. Interesting reading. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrutineer Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 The bottom line is the UK cannot control the majority of the immigrants because they are internal EU migrants and have every right to travel and work in the UK so any grandstanding by politicians is just codswallop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thom Posted March 25, 2015 Author Share Posted March 25, 2015 Until we get out of the EU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest51810 Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 If we leave EU what happens to all the expats in different countries? That's a genuine question rather than saying I'm against leaving Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest66881 Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 They have a legal right to be in britian, get over it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thom Posted March 25, 2015 Author Share Posted March 25, 2015 Until we get out of the EU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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