Traveling as Australian Citizen with UK passport

[FTA]

Hope everything went well Peach and you got on the plane without any problems.

 

From what I read, this was your biggest concern.

But, I am wondering on what grounds "uplift approval" would be denied for an Australian citizen, who ultimately cannot be denied entry into the country.

Just because they can?

[pete fish]

I appreciate this is an old thread but our son now finds himself in a similar position. He obtained Citizenship and then flew back to the UK as his Mum was ill. He flew on his UK passport as he did not have time to apply for an Australian passport. We thought his current RRV would still be valid until he applied for an Australian passport, but from one of the responses it looks like the RRV gets cancelled as soon as he became a Citizen ?

So if he gets on the plane for the return trip next Tuesday, what does he fill in the immigration card where it asks if he is a Citizen ?

Peter

[Quoll]

I appreciate this is an old thread but our son now finds himself in a similar position. He obtained Citizenship and then flew back to the UK as his Mum was ill. He flew on his UK passport as he did not have time to apply for an Australian passport. We thought his current RRV would still be valid until he applied for an Australian passport, but from one of the responses it looks like the RRV gets cancelled as soon as he became a Citizen ?
So if he gets on the plane for the return trip next Tuesday, what does he fill in the immigration card where it asks if he is a Citizen ?
Peter

He won’t be getting on the plane next Tuesday. They won’t allow him with no visa and that’s cancelled with his citizenship. He needs to talk to someone at the Aus HC in London immediately to see if he can get an expedited passport but he’d probably be better delaying his flight until he has got his pp

[pete fish]

Thanks Quoll, that puts it in perspective for us, better get busy.

 

[rammygirl]

If he turns up to the airport in plenty of time, say a good three hours before boarding and goes straight to the airline desk if check in is not open.  They need to call the office in Canberra mentioned earlier in the thread to affirm his right to enter.  They should then check him through to his destination in Australia.  If they can give him evidence of this check all the better in case of issues in transit.

If he can get documentation all the better can you courier his citizenship certificate to him in time?  Or at least send him a coulour scan, it might help.

If he is prepared to walk away if they refuse him then at least he tried. Better than forfeiting the flight without trying.

Sounds like he has enough to worry about.

My son got his citizenship recently and I forced him to get his passport ASAP, glad I did, you never know and he wouldn’t have gotten round to it if I hadn’t forced the issue!

[pete fish]

I think he is going to try exactly as you say and turn up at the airport and take a shot at boarding with his UK passport. He has his Citizen Certificate with him. The alternative of doing the right thing and contacting the High Commission would be difficult as right now he is in North Wales camping and climbing with no mobile signal. Then from Monday for a week the London High Commission is closed. Right now he is unaware of the problem he might have. So only option is to give it a try, who dares wins !

Just a thought, if he checks in online I wonder at what point would the airline check for his visa ?

He completed his passport application and booked an appointment at the post office, then cancelled it and took off for the UK as it is a quite time for his work in June. !!

We will post the outcome.

[Quinkla]

It is a long time since I have flown through a UK airport but from memory, when travelling anywhere that requires a visa, you couldn't check in and get a boarding pass online. If this is now possible, then the gate staff would check validity of travel documents. That would be a really dumb time for a problem to emerge because unless/until the airline is satisfied he will be granted admission at the other end, they won't let him board. If there is a doubt, he should get to the airport early and talk to the airline to give them every chance to resolve things for him. 

[ramot]

Airlines get a hefty fine if a passenger travels without a visa.

[Quoll]

I think he is going to try exactly as you say and turn up at the airport and take a shot at boarding with his UK passport. He has his Citizen Certificate with him. The alternative of doing the right thing and contacting the High Commission would be difficult as right now he is in North Wales camping and climbing with no mobile signal. Then from Monday for a week the London High Commission is closed. Right now he is unaware of the problem he might have. So only option is to give it a try, who dares wins !
Just a thought, if he checks in online I wonder at what point would the airline check for his visa ?
He completed his passport application and booked an appointment at the post office, then cancelled it and took off for the UK as it is a quite time for his work in June. !!
We will post the outcome.

He could talk to the airline and delay his departure.

I doubt checking in online when a visa is required is going to work. Heck, it wouldn’t even let me check in on line (Qantas) last month and I had an Aus passport! But if he is going to rock up and chance it you might hope that immigration hasn’t got all its databases aligned which would be his optimal outcome I suppose. Failing that, get there 5-6 hours before departure to allow them to negotiate with the relevant departments but he won’t have any easy time if the databases are in sync. It’s his responsibility as a citizen to travel on an Australian passport

From the Aus HC site
An Australian citizen who arrives without an Australian passport may be delayed until their identity and claims to enter Australia have been checked. If a foreign passport holder claims to be an Australian citizen, immigration officers must confirm and verify this through official databases, which will cause delays. International airlines have an obligation to ensure that they only carry appropriately documented passengers to Australia. In the absence of an Australian passport, airlines are unable to verify a claim of Australian citizenship at the time of check-in and may refuse boarding. The airline may have to make inquiries with the Department of Immigration and Citizenship in Australia seeking approval to carry the passenger, which takes time and may cause delays.

[pete fish]

Thank you to all, we agree it is not a great option to just turn up, especially if he could get turned around at the gate, but between now and Tuesday our options are limited, for several reasons.

So we will get him to arrive at Stanstead real early and go straight to the Emirates desk and take it from there.

Again, thank you for all your advice and comments, great site with honest and valid advice.

Will keep you posted.

[Nemesis]

1 hour ago, pete fish said:

Thank you to all, we agree it is not a great option to just turn up, especially if he could get turned around at the gate, but between now and Tuesday our options are limited, for several reasons.

So we will get him to arrive at Stanstead real early and go straight to the Emirates desk and take it from there.

Again, thank you for all your advice and comments, great site with honest and valid advice.

Will keep you posted.

Checking in online won't be an option. He will not be able to proceed and will need to produce his visa (that he no longer has)  and passport at the airport. Maybe he will get a helpful check-in person who will check with Canberra and he might be allowed to board but no guarantee. He will then have the same issue at which ever transit point he stops en route. complicated by the language issue.

The airline has a huge fine to pay for transporting a passenger who does not have the correct document, plus they have to bear the cost if the passenger is then deported to the point of origin.

I'd suggest if he is going to ask Emirates for leniency, and try to get them to call for confirmation of his status, get some proof of his mum being sick and tug the heartstrings regarding his need to travel quickly and thats why he has no ozzie passport. Don't mention the climbing in North Wales, this was a compassionate flight for a sick parent - far more likely to work. 

[Quoll]

2 hours ago, pete fish said:

Thank you to all, we agree it is not a great option to just turn up, especially if he could get turned around at the gate, but between now and Tuesday our options are limited, for several reasons.

So we will get him to arrive at Stanstead real early and go straight to the Emirates desk and take it from there.

Again, thank you for all your advice and comments, great site with honest and valid advice.

Will keep you posted.

Emirates aren't known for their response to emotional blackmail (meant in the nicest possible way, they aren't that user friendly). I wouldn't want to be negotiating inappropriate documentation in Dubai!!!!

Edited June 7, 2018 by Quoll

[FTA]

Hi Peter,

There is no reason why your son should be refused entry into Australia. Being an Australian citizen, this is his right!

But there are plenty of reasons why he 'may not' be, such as:

1. Airline does not help. Yes they get a huge fine if they let someone fly without a visa, which everyone knows about, but they are also not obligated to help.  It is the traveler's responsibility to meet the entry requirements. Having said that, all it takes is a quick call to the DIAC to establish citizenship.  And I'd fully expect the staff in the UK to be helpful in this regard. They do it all of the time.

2. DIAC refuses entry.  Not likely, but 'may not' be is the key words they use in their own statement previously posted. I don't know of any reason why they would deny entry, but they can, and may.

3. Airline can't get through to DIAC, phone lines are down, DIAC can't find citizenship records etc etc.  Unfortunately, your citizenship certificate will not count for anything to the airline and they will need to contact the DIAC to get approval before issuing a boarding pass.

4. Transiting Dubai should not be a problem wrt to the Australian entry requirement. But if you read the DFAT website, it is a dangerous place, so don't be caught carrying any things like Codeine or Dildos in your carry-on baggage. If security do stop your son for some reason, my advice is to be sober, and be friendly and he will be fine.

[JetBlast]

Not sure if this is allowed but could he get a tourist visa on this UK passport? That way he can get into Australia without any hassle from the Airlines. When he gets into Australia show them the certificate and get it sorted there. Surely it will be easier to resolve in the country with immigration officials instead of airline staff in the UK?

[FTA]

25 minutes ago, JetBlast said:

Not sure if this is allowed but could he get a tourist visa on this UK passport? That way he can get into Australia without any hassle from the Airlines. When he gets into Australia show them the certificate and get it sorted there. Surely it will be easier to resolve in the country with immigration officials instead of airline staff in the UK?

The system will not allow him to get any visas because he is an Australian citizen, and theoretically shouldn't need one.  Actually, that is a good way to confirm that he is in their system.  Just try and apply online, and when it refuses, he knows that all the airline need to do is contact the DIAC at the the airport to verify citizenship.

[Nemesis]

2 hours ago, FTA said:

Hi Peter,

There is no reason why your son should be refused entry into Australia. Being an Australian citizen, this is his right!

But there are plenty of reasons why he 'may not' be, such as:

1. Airline does not help. Yes they get a huge fine if they let someone fly without a visa, which everyone knows about, but they are also not obligated to help.  It is the traveler's responsibility to meet the entry requirements. Having said that, all it takes is a quick call to the DIAC to establish citizenship.  And I'd fully expect the staff in the UK to be helpful in this regard. They do it all of the time.

2. DIAC refuses entry.  Not likely, but 'may not' be is the key words they use in their own statement previously posted. I don't know of any reason why they would deny entry, but they can, and may.

3. Airline can't get through to DIAC, phone lines are down, DIAC can't find citizenship records etc etc.  Unfortunately, your citizenship certificate will not count for anything to the airline and they will need to contact the DIAC to get approval before issuing a boarding pass.

4. Transiting Dubai should not be a problem wrt to the Australian entry requirement. But if you read the DFAT website, it is a dangerous place, so don't be caught carrying any things like Codeine or Dildos in your carry-on baggage. If security do stop your son for some reason, my advice is to be sober, and be friendly and he will be fine.

If he does not have the appropriate paperwork to be allowed entry to Australia (ie passport) then the airline will not let him reboard in Dubai.They may be prepare to do the same there and contact DoHA to confirm his staus, or they may be advised from London that he has been cleared. But it isn't a case of not being a problem. He can still be prevented from boarding and have to wait while they confirm whether oz will let him in at the end of the flight. 

 

As for the  tourist visa option, sometimes the system does allow them to be issued in error to someone who is already a citizen but its not advisable to do it.

[pete fish]

1 hour ago, Nemesis said:

If he does not have the appropriate paperwork to be allowed entry to Australia (ie passport) then the airline will not let him reboard in Dubai.They may be prepare to do the same there and contact DoHA to confirm his staus, or they may be advised from London that he has been cleared. But it isn't a case of not being a problem. He can still be prevented from boarding and have to wait while they confirm whether oz will let him in at the end of the flight. 

 

As for the  tourist visa option, sometimes the system does allow them to be issued in error to someone who is already a citizen but its not advisable to do it.

We have checked the VEVO site and his RRV has definitely been removed and I agree I don't think it would be wise to try and request a tourist visa, but good call anyway. The added problem is that London HC appears to be closed next week, but I guess we would have to deal with Canberra in any case.

[FTA]

1 hour ago, Nemesis said:

If he does not have the appropriate paperwork to be allowed entry to Australia (ie passport) then the airline will not let him reboard in Dubai.They may be prepare to do the same there and contact DoHA to confirm his staus, or they may be advised from London that he has been cleared. But it isn't a case of not being a problem. He can still be prevented from boarding and have to wait while they confirm whether oz will let him in at the end of the flight. 

 

As for the  tourist visa option, sometimes the system does allow them to be issued in error to someone who is already a citizen but its not advisable to do it.

But he won't need to check-in again in Dubai.  He can be checked through to Australia and have boarding pass issued in London. He will only need to pass through security in Dubai (between arrivals and departures) who only x-ray carry-on baggage.

Please advise on why it is not advisable for an Australian citizen to get a tourist visa.  There is no reason to I know, but I am curious.  Are there any ramifications for the citizen which you seem to be implying.

Edited June 9, 2018 by FTA
extra question

[Parley]

Considering you can get an emergency passport issued in 1 day why did he do all the subterfuge ? Just to save the cost of buying a passport I expect.

His British passport may well be seized when he re-enters. I have been told they do that for people who knowingly flout the rules.

Even overseas you can get a temporary passport issued quickly.

[Quinkla]

7 minutes ago, Parley said:

Considering you can get an emergency passport issued in 1 day why did he do all the subterfuge ? Just to save the cost of buying a passport I expect.

His British passport may well be seized when he re-enters. I have been told they do that for people who knowingly flout the rules.

Even overseas you can get a temporary passport issued quickly.

This is scare-mongering garbage. The Australian authorities have no right to seize a UK passport, especially not one held by an Australian citizen. 

[FTA]

15 minutes ago, Quinkla said:

This is scare-mongering garbage. The Australian authorities have no right to seize a UK passport, especially not one held by an Australian citizen. 

Apart from that, he is NOT flouting any rule.

It is NOT illegal for an Australian citizen to enter Australia without an Australian passport.

[Guest]

https://www.homeaffairs.gov.au/trav/citi/curr/citizenship-through-travel

This part from the homeaffairs.gov website is pretty clear....

 

'An Australian passport is the preferred and most conclusive proof of Australian citizenship when travelling.

You will not be able to apply for an Australian passport until you have become an Australian citizen by attending an official citizenship ceremony and made the Australian Citizenship Pledge.

If you travel outside Australia before your ceremony you will be travelling as a permanent resident on your current passport. See further information about travelling before your citizenship ceremony.

Once you have become an Australian citizen any visa you held ceases.

As an Australian citizen you must always leave and enter Australia on an Australian passport. If you also have a passport from another country you can use that for travel once you have left Australia.

People trying to enter Australia as an Australian citizen but without an Australian passport face difficulties and delays. The Australian Passport Office provides more information.

If you also have a passport from another country you should always use your Australian passport when leaving and entering Australia.'

[Quinkla]

8 minutes ago, snifter said:

https://www.homeaffairs.gov.au/trav/citi/curr/citizenship-through-travel

This part from the homeaffairs.gov website is pretty clear....

 

Yes but...

 

This is just advisory and is not supported by any law. Interpretation of the law is a matter for courts, not Government departments. 

 

Australians are free to come and go as they please, but in order to do so they must prove that they are Australian. The easiest way to do that is with an Australian passport. The reason DIAC asks people to enter and leave on Australian passports is primarily because they like to keep track of who is onshore and who is offshore - and Aussies leaving on their dual national passports stuff up their data. 

[VERYSTORMY]

Why not just apply for an emergency passport. Which he should have done initially. I had mine granted in about 5 hours

[Guest]

17 minutes ago, VERYSTORMY said:

Why not just apply for an emergency passport. Which he should have done initially. I had mine granted in about 5 hours

The problem appears to be the person concerned isn't/wasn't aware of the problem as they are camping in North Wales somewhere and not got a way to find out about all this. 

But yes, once they are aware hopefully they can get an emergency passport. However, it could well be they are stuffed there as the Aus High Commission is closed  on Mon 11 June for the Queen's birthday public holiday. They will re open too late for the person who is meant to depart the UK on Tuesday as I understand it.