Has anybody had any experience of an Open University Australia course? I started this week.

[Parley]

Is it a full moon tonight?

[MARYROSE02]

Not doing individual philosophers so far. This is about types of "Argument" (Subject is "Critical Thinking".) Some of the stuff I've done I guess I was familiar with but not the terms but more of it is about things I'd never thought about before. I have assignment to do on Euthanasia (is it wrong?) never thought about it until a couple of weeks ago. It has certainly filled a void in my time. Perhaps this is how I get my"dole' after all!?

[MARYROSE02]

Is it a full moon tonight?

That is not an argument!?

 

Maybe "Has climate change made the moon fuller? Might be?!

[Parley]

Meanwhile at the bank.

 

http://www.australiandebtclock.com.au/

[Parley]

Now I don't have anything against MR and QSS who are probably a bit bored and think it would be wonderful to do some education just for education's sake and to get a nice warm fuzzy sense of achievement at the end of it.

 

They know in their heart of hearts, that they will never pay for their course.

But there is obviously a loophole here and if it is legal I suppose why not exploit it.

 

But it does show our Education System is a bit broken and in need of reform.

 

I do agree with Naomi that education for education sake is wonderful and I am very much into self improvement.

where we differ is that I know the government is $400M in debt, and going up all the time.

 

As a conservative I don't believe in providing free education to people just to give them that nice warm feeling in their tummies, or to cure their boredom, all at taxpayer's expense.

 

Providing HECS loans to school leavers is one thing as they are likely to get meaningful jobs that will benefit them and the country.

I hope there are not a lot of cases though where the taxpayer is funding people who will never pay it back.

 

If that makes me right wing, then so be it.

Edited April 3, 2015 by parleycross

[Que Sera Sera]

Ah but I may be the next JK Rowling! :laugh: She lived just up the road from me in a place called Chipping Sodbury. I doubt it's going to happen Parley, I'm all full of ideas but lacking in action. Story of my life. I think I'm going to look into voluntary work, give something back.

[flag of convenience]

Not really the point.

It is worthwhile if it helps someone get a job, But I'm not sure funding 60 year olds is justifiable with our current financial constraints.

 

It is a good test whether the student would be willing to pay for the course themselves without the funding.

I'm glad you are.

 

Money far better spent than tax payers subsidising the housing fiasco. Wether or not the value of education can be measured in financial outcomes is neither here nor there IMO. In fact more older folk should be encouraged for health and well being to learn/study.

The chances are it will be cheaper over the long run anyway on medical costs.

An active mind may well ensure better health.

[flag of convenience]

Good for you, MR! Which philosophers are you studying? How wonderful to be able to learn for learning's sake.

 

To learn out of interest is of course the best way. More should be encouraged to do so. I done a number of studies at night in London during the 80's when all was free. Mostly out of self interest.

[flag of convenience]

Meanwhile at the bank.

 

http://www.australiandebtclock.com.au/

 

Yep. Time to cease perks to the rich.

[flag of convenience]

Now I don't have anything against MR and QSS who are probably a bit bored and think it would be wonderful to do some education just for education's sake and to get a nice warm fuzzy sense of achievement at the end of it.

 

They know in their heart of hearts, that they will never pay for their course.

But there is obviously a loophole here and if it is legal I suppose why not exploit it.

 

But it does show our Education System is a bit broken and in need of reform.

 

I do agree with Naomi that education for education sake is wonderful and I am very much into self improvement.

where we differ is that I know the government is $400M in debt, and going up all the time.

 

As a conservative I don't believe in providing free education to people just to give them that nice warm feeling in their tummies, or to cure their boredom, all at taxpayer's expense.

 

Providing HECS loans to school leavers is one thing as they are likely to get meaningful jobs that will benefit them and the country.

I hope there are not a lot of cases though where the taxpayer is funding people who will never pay it back.

 

If that makes me right wing, then so be it.

 

It makes you selective and rather prone to The Australian arguments. You don't have issues with tax payers funding high wealth retirees or housing speculators rorting the tax payer. Very selective. Education worth far more than either those things of course just measured differently.

[MARYROSE02]

Now I don't have anything against MR and QSS who are probably a bit bored and think it would be wonderful to do some education just for education's sake and to get a nice warm fuzzy sense of achievement at the end of it.

 

They know in their heart of hearts, that they will never pay for their course.

But there is obviously a loophole here and if it is legal I suppose why not exploit it.

 

But it does show our Education System is a bit broken and in need of reform.

 

I do agree with Naomi that education for education sake is wonderful and I am very much into self improvement.

where we differ is that I know the government is $400M in debt, and going up all the time.

 

As a conservative I don't believe in providing free education to people just to give them that nice warm feeling in their tummies, or to cure their boredom, all at taxpayer's expense.

 

Providing HECS loans to school leavers is one thing as they are likely to get meaningful jobs that will benefit them and the country.

I hope there are not a lot of cases though where the taxpayer is funding people who will never pay it back.

 

If that makes me right wing, then so be it.

 

I've never been good at economics, Parley, but I'm sure there are other 'cost' and 'benefits' rather than just looking at it from a debit/credit point of view?

 

What about the possibility that I will improve both my mental and physical health through taking advantage of the government's largesse, and thereby reducing my 'cost' to the nation's medical budget? So, I've 'bludged' a bit from the Education Department's budget, but the government will get it back by saving, perhaps even more than I 'bludged' in the Health Department's budget?

 

What about the fact that the government wants us to work even longer in our lives, and discourage us from retiring early? Maybe I WILL have a better chance of getting a job from studying this OU degree? After all, I did not choose to 'retire.' I want a job, and not just for the money, but for the psychological benefit of feeling better about myself, feeling 'useful' you might say. Starting this course has certainly lifted the feelings of depression that I have experienced over the last couple of years when I am not working.

 

I hope the 'Harpmeister' is paying attention to this. He can charge you with another 'ism!' 'Anti-old geezers (and geezeresses) ism!?

[MARYROSE02]

It makes you selective and rather prone to The Australian arguments. You don't have issues with tax payers funding high wealth retirees or housing speculators rorting the tax payer. Very selective. Education worth far more than either those things of course just measured differently.

 

Whilst I do agree with some of what you say, I am an avid reader of 'The Australian' myself! (It's odd, because whilst I can understand you turning your nose up at 'The Daily Telegraph', I'm surprised you reject 'The Australian' out of hand, because it is full of genuine 'news' and comment. I've loved both The Australian' and "The Sydney Morning Herald' since I first arrived in Australia, long before I associated 'The Australian' with Rupert Murdoch. I just enjoyed reading them both.

[Parley]

There could be something in the argument that education and using onés mind could ward off things like Alzheimers.

Maybe a long bow to draw but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

 

By the way, My mum is 87 and in a nursing home.

She is a bit bored sometimes.

Can she get a HECS loan to study a degree ?

Her memory isn't great though.

[flag of convenience]

Whilst I do agree with some of what you say, I am an avid reader of 'The Australian' myself! (It's odd, because whilst I can understand you turning your nose up at 'The Daily Telegraph', I'm surprised you reject 'The Australian' out of hand, because it is full of genuine 'news' and comment. I've loved both The Australian' and "The Sydney Morning Herald' since I first arrived in Australia, long before I associated 'The Australian' with Rupert Murdoch. I just enjoyed reading them both.

 

I read The Australian most days for starters. I have found the ever increasing tilt to the Right obscene and an attack on one's intelligence. I could live with it when it had a Right Wing bent as it did in the 80's. But while still read it, I do wonder as to even how the thinking Right can take a lot of it seriously. The lack of written media ensures I will continue to read it with my coffee outside(would never buy it) along with West Australian and Financial News......

[flag of convenience]

There could be something in the argument that education and using onés mind could ward off things like Alzheimers.

Maybe a long bow to draw but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

 

By the way, My mum is 87 and in a nursing home.

She is a bit bored sometimes.

Can she get a HECS loan to study a degree ?

Her memory isn't great though.

 

Your degrading of education is clearly noted. Your 87 year old mum should of course be entitled to learn something of interest, if able to. As should everybody else. Age or status should have nothing to do with it. Wonder why this country is in various forms of decline.

[MARYROSE02]

Money far better spent than tax payers subsidising the housing fiasco. Wether or not the value of education can be measured in financial outcomes is neither here nor there IMO. In fact more older folk should be encouraged for health and well being to learn/study.

The chances are it will be cheaper over the long run anyway on medical costs.

An active mind may well ensure better health.

 

Thanks for putting it more succinctly than me. When I was studying for my first degree at the UNSW, working full time too, I used to send my Mum back in England the titles of every essay I had to do, and she would research them herself. I'm sure it gave her an extra interest in retirement. She was one of the first people to graduate from the OU in England I think.

 

You think of all the initiatives the government and other bodies are putting forward to encourage people to 'get off their bums' and 'do something', eg 'Mens' Sheds'. I know that this course has changed me (for the better!) If I spend less time seeing my therapist, that is another financial saving to the government, as Medicare subsidises it.

 

This particular course, 'Critical Thinking' has changed my views too, on how people 'argue' and how we see other people's views. Just been looking at my notes for yesterday's lecture. Google the "Dunning-Kruger Effect" and see what you think. I shall do it too, and "Stuart Oskamp." and "False Consensus" (assuming you don't already know them!?) I certainly had never heard of them.

 

I watched this video as part of the first lecture this week, and my brother did too, then we watched another video by the same writer who looked at airline crashes,and how the cultural 'mores' of a particular country could affect the relationships between the pilot and co-pilot and also the pilot and the air traffic control.

 

Incredible insights! If you come from a country where there is a rigid hierarchy and people from 'below' do not challenge those 'above', then this makes it difficult for, say the co-pilot to bring something to the attention of the pilot, and the same when the pilot is talking to the air traffic control. (It contributed to this particular accident.) He applied this to a comparison of country's air accidents and it matched. Countries like Australia where the hierarchy is not so important have less accidents.

[Shellybingobingo]

Anyone can do a degree ....it's only based on finding information out and having a understanding no biggy ! ....I think that's what's up with me my mind is too active lol ....if people think they can get a job out of it now at my age after finishing it good for them ....but to me u do a degree and then you have no experience ...over the hill for me ...and don't you have to have so many points to get on a degree course to get those points I'd have to go back to basics and how long will that take .

 

Inwas as young nieave had babies young .....I'm still young and nieave lol .....but I don't want be tucked up in bed at half eight either ...lots of people I come across go bed at half eight that's just boring . Since being here I'm frightened of getting alzhimers too ..it's not funnie ! Lol

Edited April 3, 2015 by Shellybingobingo

[ramot]

Thanks for putting it more succinctly than me. When I was studying for my first degree at the UNSW, working full time too, I used to send my Mum back in England the titles of every essay I had to do, and she would research them herself. I'm sure it gave her an extra interest in retirement. She was one of the first people to graduate from the OU in England I think.

 

You think of all the initiatives the government and other bodies are putting forward to encourage people to 'get off their bums' and 'do something', eg 'Mens' Sheds'. I know that this course has changed me (for the better!) If I spend less time seeing my therapist, that is another financial saving to the government, as Medicare subsidises it.

 

This particular course, 'Critical Thinking' has changed my views too, on how people 'argue' and how we see other people's views. Just been looking at my notes for yesterday's lecture. Google the "Dunning-Kruger Effect" and see what you think. I shall do it too, and "Stuart Oskamp." and "False Consensus" (assuming you don't already know them!?) I certainly had never heard of them.

 

I watched this video as part of the first lecture this week, and my brother did too, then we watched another video by the same writer who looked at airline crashes,and how the cultural 'mores' of a particular country could affect the relationships between the pilot and co-pilot and also the pilot and the air traffic control.

 

Incredible insights! If you come from a country where there is a rigid hierarchy and people from 'below' do not challenge those 'above', then this makes it difficult for, say the co-pilot to bring something to the attention of the pilot, and the same when the pilot is talking to the air traffic control. (It contributed to this particular accident.) He applied this to a comparison of country's air accidents and it matched. Countries like Australia where the hierarchy is not so important have less accidents.

 

MR this is fairly well known in the airline world, and was the possible/probable cause of accidents in several cases, where the first officer did not feel it appropriate to question the captain.

 

this is mostly addressed by airlines, but obviously I can only go by my husband and his pilot friends who have and still do work for a variety of international airlines, and hope that they all adhere to it.

[Shellybingobingo]

Think I'll stick to watching pretty woman today lol ...all to complicated for me this thread ...at least I see myself in her character ...but not the hooker part . Pmsl

[Nomicon]

HECs contributes a maximum of $112k per student, less if not medical/law. Currently roughly 1.3million students, of which 985,000 are local and 328,000 international (They pay full fees)

 

Simplifying things, not deducting payments made by students earning over the $50k, again assuming 4 year degree course = $28k per year. Each year $27,580,000,000 added to HECs debt.

 

However on average a graduate would earn $1,000,000 more in a lifetime. Normal tax revenue, even assuming a low rate of 20%, would generate an additional $200,000 per graduate. Not counting the repayments made to HECs debt.

 

Based on this, it would be reasonable to judge education funding as a viable investment. If that means a few older persons want to have a crack at bettering themselves, I fail to see why you take umbrage? Short of being dissatisfied with your current situation and venting your frustrations? Tad petty.

[flag of convenience]

Anyone can do a degree ....it's only based on finding information out and having a understanding no biggy ! ....I think that's what's up with me my mind is too active lol ....if people think they can get a job out of it now at my age after finishing it good for them ....but to me u do a degree and then you have no experience ...over the hill for me ...and don't you have to have so many points to get on a degree course to get those points I'd have to go back to basics and how long will that take .

 

Inwas as young nieave had babies young .....I'm still young and nieave lol .....but I don't want be tucked up in bed at half eight either ...lots of people I come across go bed at half eight that's just boring . Since being here I'm frightened of getting alzhimers too ..it's not funnie ! Lol

 

I'm the first to critique the education industry. This would extend to the never ending trainings at work, with only the odd one being of benefit. That more often than not was from an international speaker.

 

Also a great believer in doing things that stimulate. Philosophy , while hardly probably get one into the ranks of the high earners is even of more personal benefit for those that seek answers and different ways of looking at life of far greater value. What can be greater than finding ways to look at the world that make sense to us on a personal level? I'm all for it.

Good on MaryRose02 for doing something close to his heart. English

 

I'm afraid early to bed is a bit of a thing here. 8.30 though very early. Do you really know adults that go that early? I found it very odd the first years back in OZ from Europe that one should not call another after 9 pm. Even in a smallish city in France we would at times go out to a local café at that time for a wine and chat, even during the working week. Let alone cities. All very odd.

 

I suppose which I am, become an early riser doesn't have the same communication emphasis but that does appear of lesser importance in Australia, to many at least than in many other places.

[flag of convenience]

HECs contributes a maximum of $112k per student, less if not medical/law. Currently roughly 1.3million students, of which 985,000 are local and 328,000 international (They pay full fees)

 

Simplifying things, not deducting payments made by students earning over the $50k, again assuming 4 year degree course = $28k per year. Each year $27,580,000,000 added to HECs debt.

 

However on average a graduate would earn $1,000,000 more in a lifetime. Normal tax revenue, even assuming a low rate of 20%, would generate an additional $200,000 per graduate. Not counting the repayments made to HECs debt.

 

Based on this, it would be reasonable to judge education funding as a viable investment. If that means a few older persons want to have a crack at bettering themselves, I fail to see why you take umbrage? Short of being dissatisfied with your current situation and venting your frustrations? Tad petty.

 

A tad petty indeed. To encourage a tuned in and continually participating older population in whatever form can only be of benefit to a country and society. Some of the Nordic's have this right.

A world where everything is costed in order to only anticipate monetary gain, is a very impoverished world indeed.

[flag of convenience]

Think I'll stick to watching pretty woman today lol ...all to complicated for me this thread ...at least I see myself in her character ...but not the hooker part . Pmsl

 

No judgemental sorts on this Forum Shellybingobingo. (hopefully/wishfully) As they say whatever you do, just do it well.

[Shellybingobingo]

I'm the first to critique the education industry. This would extend to the never ending trainings at work, with only the odd one being of benefit. That more often than not was from an international speaker.

 

Also a great believer in doing things that stimulate. Philosophy , while hardly probably get one into the ranks of the high earners is even of more personal benefit for those that seek answers and different ways of looking at life of far greater value. What can be greater than finding ways to look at the world that make sense to us on a personal level? I'm all for it.

Good on MaryRose02 for doing something close to his heart. English

 

I'm afraid early to bed is a bit of a thing here. 8.30 though very early. Do you really know adults that go that early? I found it very odd the first years back in OZ from Europe that one should not call another after 9 pm. Even in a smallish city in France we would at times go out to a local café at that time for a wine and chat, even during the working week. Let alone cities. All very odd.

 

I suppose which I am, become an early riser doesn't have the same communication emphasis but that does appear of lesser importance in Australia, to many at least than in many other places.

 

 

Yep i do know people that go bed that early ...my son has even started doing it too . In the week . But a couple of people I know kids in bed at 7:30 they go at 8:30 ...every night apart from once a month when they go out together ...it would drive me insane ...it's all work and no play ...just bed work bed work . Lol

[Shellybingobingo]

No judgemental sorts on this Forum Shellybingobingo. (hopefully/wishfully) As they say whatever you do, just do it well.