Far right marchers massively outnumbered in Newcastle

[flag of convenience 3,987]

They're not muslims if they drink

 

A number of the Saudi Royal family drink at least in casinos in London. I don't think they would take kindly to being called kaffirs . Fact is some drink some do things before marriage not supposed to happen in Muslim also. A lot depends on country and culture setting. A former Malaysian PM would questioned if Sharia Law should be introduced into Malaysia in the sense of stoning Malay women that strayed, responded by saying there would not be enough stones in Malaysia. He wasn't far off the mark either.

[HappyHeart 14,374]

Well no if you know Islam. Young are tolerated to bend the rules at least until undertaking the Haj. Just because people are described as Muslim, it doesn't mean they live every/any thing they are expected to adhere to in the book.

 

It absolutely does if they pick and choose and condemn those who do the things they choose not to!!!!! That's bollocks tbh

[gee13 601]

It absolutely does if they pick and choose and condemn those who do the things they choose not to!!!!! That's bollocks tbh

 

So with all due respect HH Are you saying those that are young and liberal are the same ones as those that condemn others? Do you happen to know any by chance that do so?

[HappyHeart 14,374]

No Gee. I'm saying that Muslims of any age that pick and choose the bits of Islam they will follow and shout loudly about one aspect such as lets say eating pork and making a fuss about it and proclaiming how forbidden it is while also partaking of alcoholic beverages to excess (or indeed at all) are big fat hypocrites.

[flag of convenience 3,987]

It absolutely does if they pick and choose and condemn those who do the things they choose not to!!!!! That's bollocks tbh

 

I wonder why you would think that? Why would everyone behave in the same fashion? As I attempted poorly to explain there is greater tolerance in non radical Islamic societies for the errors of the young. Not all Muslims are robots performing the same way. Youth will rebel as youth does everywhere. Go and take a look for yourself would be the easiest way. Although in general better behaved than many western kids I would say.

[gee13 601]

No Gee. I'm saying that Muslims of any age that pick and choose the bits of Islam they will follow and shout loudly about one aspect such as lets say eating pork and making a fuss about it and proclaiming how forbidden it is while also partaking of alcoholic beverages to excess (or indeed at all) are big fat hypocrites.

 

I have 2 close mates who are muslim, they like to enjoy some beers after a game at the pub... a good yarn ... we play in a group full of scots and poms... at no time ever have I seen them condemn us for being who we are. They are respectful folk who understand their place in a western society and do not abuse it.

[flag of convenience 3,987]

No Gee. I'm saying that Muslims of any age that pick and choose the bits of Islam they will follow and shout loudly about one aspect such as lets say eating pork and making a fuss about it and proclaiming how forbidden it is while also partaking of alcoholic beverages to excess (or indeed at all) are big fat hypocrites.

 

Well no you are wrong. I have been living in close proximity to Muslims in Muslim majority country and never ever saw one eat pork. I have come across the odd few in western countries, but don't recall them calling themselves practising Muslims. Hope your not jumping on the anti Muslim bandwagon that predominates on this forum.

[HappyHeart 14,374]

I have 2 close mates who are muslim, they like to enjoy some beers after a game at the pub... a good yarn ... we play in a group full of scots and poms... at no time ever have I seen them condemn us for being who we are. They are respectful folk who understand their place in a western society and do not abuse it.

 

Did you read what I wrote?? It's the selective choosing that i see as hypocritical, not the choice to not follow rigidly. I also never mentioned the muslim youth Flag. Misrepresenting my words

[gee13 601]

Did you read what I wrote?? It's the selective choosing that i see as hypocritical, not the choice to not follow rigidly. I also never mentioned the muslim youth Flag. Misrepresenting my words

 

Yes you wrote something not based on first hand experience but from what you have been read via the media.

Edited March 9, 2015 by gee13

[HappyHeart 14,374]

Well no you are wrong. I have been living in close proximity to Muslims in Muslim majority country and never ever saw one eat pork. I have come across the odd few in western countries, but don't recall them calling themselves practising Muslims. Hope your not jumping on the anti Muslim bandwagon that predominates on this forum.

 

You've misread what I said. Go back and re-read it

[HappyHeart 14,374]

Yes you wrote something not based on first hand experience but from what you have been read via the media.

 

Wrong again. How the hell would you know??

[HappyHeart 14,374]

I grew up in an area heavily populated by Muslims. I went to school with Muslims, I lived next door to Muslims, my daughter went to a school where signs were not in English, she had little Muslim friends....we went to school plays where there was a heavy multi-cultural influence and lots of Muslim festivals were celebrated, I have extensive experience of what living in a British Muslim area is like, the good bits, the bad bits and the frankly disturbing bits.

 

Since moving to Australia I have met, worked with, socialised many Muslims from countries other than Pakistan and Iraq. I have seen what I think is a fair representation of Muslims.

Edited March 9, 2015 by HappyHeart

[Perthbum 5,725]

They're not muslims if they drink

Thanks fiona I will tell them next time I see them :wink:

[gee13 601]

So you are saying with your 'extensive' experience with muslims you abhor that the young people who choose to be liberal are just the same ones that would.....

 

will follow and shout loudly about one aspect such as lets say eating pork and making a fuss about it and proclaiming how forbidden it is while also partaking of alcoholic beverages to excess (or indeed at all) are big fat hypocrites.

Edited March 9, 2015 by gee13

[Perthbum 5,725]

It is a general assumption that Muslims can not drink alcohol. Not that all believers of Islam go through life sober, but still it’s considered a sin to have a beer. Well, we did a lot of research and in this story we will explain to you why this assumption is wrong. Muslims are indeed allowed to drink. Wine is even glorified in their holy book the Quran and the prophet Muhammad himself drank too. We hope that soon everywhere in the Middle East the sounds of glasses bashing into eachother will replace those of gunshots. Here we go…

The first thing we need to do is to establish that drinking alcohol is not prohibited by the Quran as is claimed by many. There are three passages that hint in this direction. However not in a single occasion it is called haraam, or forbidden by God, like pork meat for example. Here are the three passages:

Quran 2:219 “They ask you concerning alcoholic drinks and games of chance. Say: in them are harm and goods for men, but their harms exeeds their good effects.”

Quran 4:43 “Do not approach prayers while you are drunk.”

Quran 5:90 “O you who believe! Intoxications and gambling, (dedication of) stones and (divination by) arrows are an abomination of Satan’s handwork: so avoid it that you may prosper.”

[HappyHeart 14,374]

So you are saying with your 'extensive' experience with muslims you abhor that the young people who choose to be liberal are just the same ones that would.....

 

Now you are taking the piss Gee.....how can I debate sensibly with you?

[Johndoe 13,043]

Muslims I know are not at all like the way Muslims are portrayed in the media and white people who do not mix or work with them, most muslims I know love a drink, love to socialise with anyone, love going to clubs, love football, love their life in the UK.

 

So who categorises them as Muslims................you? them? The media..............their "bible" FFS!!!!!!!!!!!!

Edited March 9, 2015 by Johndoe

[gee13 601]

Now you are taking the piss Gee.....how can I debate sensibly with you?

 

Im not sure.. you did say it and I had to quote so as to not 'misquote' :laugh: I respect you dearly so I will reserve from challenging your assumptions further :biggrin: now wheres that margaret river merlot and double brie: ? Lets have a cheese platter instead... :jiggy:

[Johndoe 13,043]

Well no if you know Islam. Young are tolerated to bend the rules at least until undertaking the Haj. Just because people are described as Muslim, it doesn't mean they live every/any thing they are expected to adhere to in the book.

 

Who says so? you? And are we talking specifically about (your words) "young"?

[gee13 601]

Anyway back to being back On Topic about PEGIDA and their futile quest to rid the world of muslims.... did anyone catch this :laugh:

 

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jan/21/pegida-leader-styled-adolf-hitler-lutz-bachmann-german-islamist-terrorists-facebook

[HappyHeart 14,374]

Im not sure.. you did say it and I had to quote so as to not 'misquote' :laugh: I respect you dearly so I will reserve from challenging your assumptions further :biggrin: now wheres that margaret river merlot and double brie: ? Lets have a cheese platter instead... :jiggy:

 

I will say to you, they are not 'assumptions' they are my experiences and opinions. Mine to have and to hold, I don't see the need to pull apart peoples opinions because they don't match your own?

I'm telling you what I think about the very specific things I have mentioned. I could tell you about my positive experiences and opinions too but that would be bypassed on this thread no doubt!

[simmo 21,941]

Anyway back to being back On Topic about PEGIDA and their futile quest to rid the world of muslims.... did anyone catch this

 

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jan/21/pegida-leader-styled-adolf-hitler-lutz-bachmann-german-islamist-terrorists-facebook

Do pegida want to rid the world of Muslims or are you fibbing again?

[gee13 601]

Do pegida want to rid the world of Muslims or are you fibbing again?

 

Do pegida want a world full of muslims or are you fibbing again? :laugh:

[Johndoe 13,043]

The point being made by HH is that "selective" adherence to whatever holy book that takes your fancy is no adherence at all........................Fundamentalism is fundamentalism....................be it Jewish, moslem, or Christian..................we can interpret how we so wish to suit our agenda.....................the tragedy is...................that the apolegists always take the path of least resistance..................they will acknowledge the "flaws"...............make excuses as to why and wherefore that particular circumstance has arisen (in the current climate) but never acknowledge or address why that circumstance has arisen in an historical and (future devastating) circmstance................am I making sense? doubt it?...............pissed again but sober enough to know that no amount of debate with some PIO zealots will ever make an impression.................I hate to say this but as an ex "lefty" I realise now, why, with the "in your face" debating skills of some (I won't mention them) I was persuaded to "give up the fight" and let the "bludgers" sort themsleves out. Never thought I'd admit it but as far as the "left' goes on this forum, harpo would put you to shame...............get real...............it's not about you but about "the people" the left seems to take things so personal?

[HappyHeart 14,374]

The point being made by HH is that "selective" adherence to whatever holy book that takes your fancy is no adherence at all........................Fundamentalism is fundamentalism....................be it Jewish, moslem, or Christian..................we can interpret how we so wish to suit our agenda.....................the tragedy is...................that the apolegists always take the path of least resistance..................they will acknowledge the "flaws"...............make excuses as to why and wherefore that particular circumstance has arisen (in the current climate) but never acknowledge or address why that circumstance has arisen in an historical and (future devastating) circmstance................am I making sense? doubt it?...............pissed again but sober enough to know that no amount of debate with some PIO zealots will ever make an impression.................I hate to say this but as an ex "lefty" I realise now, why, with the "in your face" debating skills of some (I won't mention them) I was persuaded to "give up the fight" and let the "bludgers" sort themsleves out. Never thought I'd admit it but as far as the "left' goes on this forum, harpo would put you to shame...............get real...............it's not about you but about "the people" the left seems to take things so personal?

 

I'm glad somebody understood what I was saying! Pissed or not...give that man a big hand!