conandviv Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 I work as a Special Needs Teacher in a special school in the UK and as a Special Needs Advisory Teacher for the Outreach Service of the special school where I work, advising mainstream schools about Special Education Needs. I also facilitate Special Education Needs training for the Teaching School department of the special school where I work. I have worked in a specialist educational provision for eight years in the UK. My university qualifications are a 4 year BA and MA combined, Master of Modern Languages degree from the University of Manchester, awarded in 2004 and a primary PGCE (with Modern Foreign Languages) from Manchester Metropolitan University awarded in 2005. My PGCE included Special Education Needs training and I have completed further Special Education Needs training during my time working in specialist educational provisions, such as a course in sign language, positive handling etc... I have been looking into applying for a visa to move to Adelaide. I have contacted a couple of registered migration agents in the UK to enquire about migrating, and they have given me conflicting information: one of them stated I would be able to be assessed by AITSL as a Special Needs Teacher and the other thought that I may need to apply to be assessed as a Primary Teacher. On the immi.gov.au site it states the required skill level for Special Needs Teacher is: 'This occupation has a level of skill commensurate with a bachelor degree or higher qualification. At least five years of relevant experience may substitute for the formal qualification. In some instances relevant experience and/or on-the-job training may be required in addition to the formal qualification (ANZSCO Skill Level 1).' So I believe my four year bachelors/masters degree plus primary PGCE and relevant experience meet this criteria but I can't tell from the information available from AITSL whether this corresponds with AITSL's requirements. The immi.gov.au site advises contacting the assessing authority to check specific requirements. So I contacted AITSL directly and despite numerous requests for clarification all they do is refer me to the information on the application form and in their Q&A, which doesn't give definitive clarification for this query. Can anyone clarify which assessment route is appropriate for me? Since I work as a Special Needs Teacher, I have a lot of experience in this field, I would be applying for jobs as a Special Needs Teacher in Australia and this profession is on the SOL, whereas Primary Teacher is not, I thought applying for assessment as a Special Needs Teacher would be the appropriate route for me, but if I need to apply as a Primary Teacher it would be good to know this before I begin the application process and potentially waste a lot of money applying for the wrong assessment. Many thanks for any clarification or precedents that anyone can offer! :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geordielass44 Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 I am also an SEN teacher and at first went down that route but my agent,after speaking to numerous people ,said i wouldn't qualify - the main issue was that although I had a MA in SEN and other post-graduate qualifications I did not have a further 45 days of supervised teaching practice further to the 45 minimum I had had during my PGCE qualification. I then applied at a secondary school teacher and that was fine. They recognised my advisory work which at that point constituted about 8/10 of the previous 10 year's work. Please feel free to PM me, Tracy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oddball Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 (edited) It sounds like this is the criteria from AITSL that could possible trip you up... "An initial teacher education qualification of at least one year full-time study (or part-time equivalent) at the higher education (university) level that includes a minimum of 45 days of supervised teaching practice with students in a school setting, and a formal post graduate qualification in special education of at least one year in duration (full-time or part-time equivalent) at the higher education (university) level following the completion of the initial teacher education qualification. NOTE - Applicants relying on a postgraduate special education qualification to, in-part, meet the professional criterion must have completed a minimum of 45 days of supervised teaching practice in a school setting as part of their initial teacher education qualification to meet the professional assessment criteria." It's the 'AND' in the above statement that is tricky. You need a one-year initial teaching training (including 45 days supervised teaching), AND a further one year at univeristy to specialise in special needs education. Unfortunately any qualifications earned outside/after university won't help you. AITSL are definitely in the business to make money, so they won't be dishing out any free advice. They'll just tell you to apply (which I realise is very unhelpful). When you say your PGCE included special needs training... was this a focus of your PGCE? Or did you just do a few units on it? For example, my undergraduate secondary teaching degree included special needs training, but by no means was this the focus of my degree. Also, during your PGCE, did you have 45 days supervised teaching? I know that primary teacher is on the CSOL at the moment, but I'm sure sure what states are sponsoring for that or under what conditions. Also- advice on a particular career from the DIBP should be taken with a pinch of salt, as AITSL are the ones who have the authority to grant the skills assessment which is required to apply, so their say is final. Edited January 27, 2015 by oddball 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conandviv Posted January 27, 2015 Author Share Posted January 27, 2015 I am also an SEN teacher and at first went down that route but my agent,after speaking to numerous people ,said i wouldn't qualify - the main issue was that although I had a MA in SEN and other post-graduate qualifications I did not have a further 45 days of supervised teaching practice further to the 45 minimum I had had during my PGCE qualification. I then applied at a secondary school teacher and that was fine. They recognised my advisory work which at that point constituted about 8/10 of the previous 10 year's work. Please feel free to PM me, Tracy Thanks for the info! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conandviv Posted January 27, 2015 Author Share Posted January 27, 2015 It sounds like this is the criteria from AITSL that could possible trip you up... "An initial teacher education qualification of at least one year full-time study (or part-time equivalent) at the higher education (university) level that includes a minimum of 45 days of supervised teaching practice with students in a school setting, and a formal post graduate qualification in special education of at least one year in duration (full-time or part-time equivalent) at the higher education (university) level following the completion of the initial teacher education qualification. NOTE - Applicants relying on a postgraduate special education qualification to, in-part, meet the professional criterion must have completed a minimum of 45 days of supervised teaching practice in a school setting as part of their initial teacher education qualification to meet the professional assessment criteria." It's the 'AND' in the above statement that is tricky. You need a one-year initial teaching training (including 45 days supervised teaching), AND a further one year at univeristy to specialise in special needs education. Unfortunately any qualifications earned outside/after university won't help you. AITSL are definitely in the business to make money, so they won't be dishing out any free advice. They'll just tell you to apply (which I realise is very unhelpful). When you say your PGCE included special needs training... was this a focus of your PGCE? Or did you just do a few units on it? For example, my undergraduate secondary teaching degree included special needs training, but by no means was this the focus of my degree. Also, during your PGCE, did you have 45 days supervised teaching? I know that primary teacher is on the CSOL at the moment, but I'm sure sure what states are sponsoring for that or under what conditions. Also- advice on a particular career from the DIBP should be taken with a pinch of salt, as AITSL are the ones who have the authority to grant the skills assessment which is required to apply, so their say is final. Thanks for your advice. Special needs wasn't the focus of my PGCE. If my teaching placements during my PGCE qualify as supervised teaching I would have more than the 45 days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oddball Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Yes, the teaching placements count. As far as I'm aware, the only state sponsoring primary school teachers (which you would likely get a positive skills assessment for) is WA, and you must have a job offer before they agree to sponsor. Considering Australia has a flood of unemployed primary teachers, the chances of this are slim. Have you considered going back to uni for one year to specialise in special needs? Does your partner have a job on the SOL or CSOL? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conandviv Posted January 27, 2015 Author Share Posted January 27, 2015 Yes, the teaching placements count. As far as I'm aware, the only state sponsoring primary school teachers (which you would likely get a positive skills assessment for) is WA, and you must have a job offer before they agree to sponsor. Considering Australia has a flood of unemployed primary teachers, the chances of this are slim. Have you considered going back to uni for one year to specialise in special needs? Does your partner have a job on the SOL or CSOL? My husband's job would come under the CSOL. My sister is a permanent resident in Australia married to a native Australian citizen. My sister is now eligible for full citizenship but I don't think she has got around to finalising that yet. So I'm now wondering whether that would provide me with a better route in terms of family sponsorship? I have also made contacts in special education in Adelaide so I was thinking about enquiring to see if I can secure a post in special education and pursuing the employer sponsorship route? Any advice would be gratefully received! :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oddball Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 It doesn't really matter if your sister gets citizenship. In terms of sponsorship, a PR has the same rights. To be eligible for the 489 she would have to be living in what's considered to be a regional area (all of SA is). However, you would still need a positive skills assessment from AITSL. Even if you secure a post in Adelaide as a special needs educator, you still need the positive assessment from AITSL. What is your husband's career? Have you checked to see which states are sponsoring his job and under what conditions? This might be a better option! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conandviv Posted January 27, 2015 Author Share Posted January 27, 2015 It doesn't really matter if your sister gets citizenship. In terms of sponsorship, a PR has the same rights. To be eligible for the 489 she would have to be living in what's considered to be a regional area (all of SA is). However, you would still need a positive skills assessment from AITSL. Even if you secure a post in Adelaide as a special needs educator, you still need the positive assessment from AITSL. What is your husband's career? Have you checked to see which states are sponsoring his job and under what conditions? This might be a better option! Okay, so to review the options: * If I look into a one year post-graduate qualification specifically in SEN I may then qualify for AITSL Special Needs Teacher and for the 189 visa? * If my sister nominates me and I get the Primary Teacher AITSL assessment I would then be eligible for the 489 but this would be limited to four years? (my sister lives in Adelaide) * If I secure a special education post and get the Primary Teacher AITSL assessment I may then be eligible for the 186 if the employer agrees to nominate me? * My husband is the owner/managing director of a graphic design and print company, which employs eight people, and he is a graphic designer by trade. Managing Director does seem to be on the SA state nominated list, although it seems to be on the Australian CSOL rather than the SOL, so would that potentially be a better option? Thanks so much for your guidance and clarification! :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oddball Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 * Yes. * For the 489, you still need a job on the relevant skilled occupation list, which I don't think primary is at the moment. * I don't know enough about the 186 to comment, sorry What I do know is that you must be registered as a teacher with the TRB of the relevant state, if that helps. This can take quite awhile. * With regards to your hubby, maybe start a new thread with queries about his skills, skills assessment, and visa options. It will get more views as this thread specifically pertains to teaching. I'll be honest and say I don't know a lot about that occupation! In the short term, I think you should explore all options to see what gives you the best opportunity! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geordielass44 Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 I think the major problem is the need for an additional 45 days supervised teaching practice for the SEN qualification...to calrify you need 1. A minimum of 45 days supervised teaching practice for your PGCE AND 2. a further 45 days supervised teaching practice relating to your SEN qualification. I don't think this is something that happens in the UK as once you are qualified you are qualified as it were! No need for more supervised teaching practice as you are already qualified to teach all children. I have a PGCE in Secondary History then I studied for a Post-Graduate Certificate in the co-ordination of SEN, an Advanced Diploma in SEN and a Masters in SEN/inclusion but i didn't meet the criteria as there was no supervised teaching practice in those qualifications. We had to go back to the drawing board and go down the secondary teacher route. I am still planning to look for SEN jobs when in Australia as have plenty of qualifications/experience but needed to go the secondary route to secure the visa. good luck - hope this is helpful. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benj1980 Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 I'm SEN as well, and knew I wouldn't qualify due to lack of teaching practice post qualification. Different countries have different rules! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conandviv Posted January 27, 2015 Author Share Posted January 27, 2015 * Yes.* For the 489, you still need a job on the relevant skilled occupation list, which I don't think primary is at the moment. * I don't know enough about the 186 to comment, sorry What I do know is that you must be registered as a teacher with the TRB of the relevant state, if that helps. This can take quite awhile. * With regards to your hubby, maybe start a new thread with queries about his skills, skills assessment, and visa options. It will get more views as this thread specifically pertains to teaching. I'll be honest and say I don't know a lot about that occupation! In the short term, I think you should explore all options to see what gives you the best opportunity! Thanks for the advice! Just a thought, would my primary PGCE make me eligible for AITSL assessment as Early Childhood Teacher since one of my main teaching placements was in KS1 with children under the age of 8, providing the placement was longer than 45 days? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conandviv Posted January 27, 2015 Author Share Posted January 27, 2015 I think the major problem is the need for an additional 45 days supervised teaching practice for the SEN qualification...to calrify you need 1. A minimum of 45 days supervised teaching practice for your PGCE AND 2. a further 45 days supervised teaching practice relating to your SEN qualification. I don't think this is something that happens in the UK as once you are qualified you are qualified as it were! No need for more supervised teaching practice as you are already qualified to teach all children. I have a PGCE in Secondary History then I studied for a Post-Graduate Certificate in the co-ordination of SEN, an Advanced Diploma in SEN and a Masters in SEN/inclusion but i didn't meet the criteria as there was no supervised teaching practice in those qualifications. We had to go back to the drawing board and go down the secondary teacher route. I am still planning to look for SEN jobs when in Australia as have plenty of qualifications/experience but needed to go the secondary route to secure the visa. good luck - hope this is helpful. It seems incredible that with all your SEN qualifications and experience you wouldn't meet criteria for assessment as Special Needs Teacher, this makes me reluctant to do a further year post-graduate SEN qualification, because they don't tend to include teaching practices, so I may end up still not meeting criteria. Great that you had secondary on the SOL to fall back on whereas for me primary is no longer on the SOL. Thanks for sharing your experience though. Just a thought, would my primary PGCE make me eligible for AITSL assessment as Early Childhood Teacher since one of my main teaching placements was in KS1 with children under the age of 8, providing the placement was longer than 45 days? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrussell Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 On the immi.gov.au site it states the required skill level for Special Needs Teacher is: 'This occupation has a level of skill commensurate with a bachelor degree or higher qualification. At least five years of relevant experience may substitute for the formal qualification. That is misleading nonsense. I you want me to have a look at your case, please go to my website (pinoyau.com) and use the contact form. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conandviv Posted January 27, 2015 Author Share Posted January 27, 2015 I'm SEN as well, and knew I wouldn't qualify due to lack of teaching practice post qualification. Different countries have different rules! Did you get assessed as secondary then like Geordielass44? Just a thought, would my primary PGCE make me eligible for AITSL assessment as Early Childhood Teacher since one of my main teaching placements was in KS1 with children under the age of 8, providing the placement was longer than 45 days? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geordielass44 Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 It seems incredible that with all your SEN qualifications and experience you wouldn't meet criteria for assessment as Special Needs Teacher, this makes me reluctant to do a further year post-graduate SEN qualification, because they don't tend to include teaching practices, so I may end up still not meeting criteria. Great that you had secondary on the SOL to fall back on whereas for me primary is no longer on the SOL. Thanks for sharing your experience though. Just a thought, would my primary PGCE make me eligible for AITSL assessment as Early Childhood Teacher since one of my main teaching placements was in KS1 with children under the age of 8, providing the placement was longer than 45 days? My agent was very good and did a lot of talking to relevant people before concluding I wouldn't get a positive assessment from AITSL - I was a bit surprised as i have a lot of experience/qualifications but in Australia teachers must do more supervised teaching practice to be qualified SEN teachers (may explain the shortage???!!) I have a friend in Melbourne who is teaching in a special school and she has to get qualified within 5 years (even though she has experience/quals in SEN from UK) I am happy to do whatever is needed in Australia - just hope to stay in SEN teaching as its what i enjoy. i'm not sure about the primary PGCE making you eligible for assessment as an Early Childhood Teacher. I know getting an agent is costly but i am glad we did as they really helped (we had to get it right first time as i was a few months off turning 45) i hope someone can give you further advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conandviv Posted January 27, 2015 Author Share Posted January 27, 2015 My agent was very good and did a lot of talking to relevant people before concluding I wouldn't get a positive assessment from AITSL - I was a bit surprised as i have a lot of experience/qualifications but in Australia teachers must do more supervised teaching practice to be qualified SEN teachers (may explain the shortage???!!) I have a friend in Melbourne who is teaching in a special school and she has to get qualified within 5 years (even though she has experience/quals in SEN from UK) I am happy to do whatever is needed in Australia - just hope to stay in SEN teaching as its what i enjoy. i'm not sure about the primary PGCE making you eligible for assessment as an Early Childhood Teacher. I know getting an agent is costly but i am glad we did as they really helped (we had to get it right first time as i was a few months off turning 45) i hope someone can give you further advice. Thanks for your response. Could you tell us the RMA (company and agent) that you dealt with, if you would be happy to recommend them, as it sounds like they may have relevant experience for our circumstances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conandviv Posted January 27, 2015 Author Share Posted January 27, 2015 That is misleading nonsense. I you want me to have a look at your case, please go to my website (pinoyau.com) and use the contact form. Thanks, your advice/guidance would be really useful. The description quoted is from: http://www.immi.gov.au/Work/Pages/asri/special-education-teachers.aspx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geordielass44 Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Thanks for your response. Could you tell us the RMA (company and agent) that you dealt with, if you would be happy to recommend them, as it sounds like they may have relevant experience for our circumstances. Hi to be honest i think they didn't know and had to do a lot of finding out - but they did a lot of work! I also went with them as my original BA degree was from a university in South Africa and they are a company who deal with a lot of South Africans and had secured visas for other friends in SA. i will PM you their details if you want though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conandviv Posted January 27, 2015 Author Share Posted January 27, 2015 Hi to be honest i think they didn't know and had to do a lot of finding out - but they did a lot of work! I also went with them as my original BA degree was from a university in South Africa and they are a company who deal with a lot of South Africans and had secured visas for other friends in SA. i will PM you their details if you want though. Thanks for the info :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benj1980 Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Did you get assessed as secondary then like Geordielass44? Just a thought, would my primary PGCE make me eligible for AITSL assessment as Early Childhood Teacher since one of my main teaching placements was in KS1 with children under the age of 8, providing the placement was longer than 45 days? Yes I am secondary trained so I went down that route! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oddball Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Geordielass44, I am not convinced that is accurate. Perhaps you were told incorrectly or maybe AITSL has changed the guidelines since then. According to AITSL, you need either: 1) An initial teacher education qualification of at least one year full-time study (or part-time equivalent) at the higher education level that includes a minimum of 45 days of supervised teaching practice with students in a school setting, and a formal post graduate qualification in special education of at least one year in duration at the higher education level following the completion of the initial teacher education qualification. Applicants relying on a postgraduate special education qualification to, in-part, meet the professional criterion must have completed a minimum of 45 days of supervised teaching practice in a school setting as part of their initial teacher education qualification to meet the professional assessment criteria. OR 2) An undergraduate initial teacher education qualification with a specialisation in special education of at least one year full-time study (or part-time equivalent), at the higher education (university) level that includes a minimum of 45 days of supervised teaching practice with students within a special education setting. The way I read it, you only need 45 days supervised teaching in a special education setting if you completed your teaching degree as an undergraduate degree. Obviously for both options, the applicant needs to have a full four years of university education, resulting in the equivalent of a bachelor degree, which conandviv obviously does. This means if you did a post-grad qualification in special education, your skills would likely be positively assessed. I know you're looking at a few different agents, which is a good idea! Best of luck 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conandviv Posted January 28, 2015 Author Share Posted January 28, 2015 Geordielass44, I am not convinced that is accurate. Perhaps you were told incorrectly or maybe AITSL has changed the guidelines since then. According to AITSL, you need either: 1) An initial teacher education qualification of at least one year full-time study (or part-time equivalent) at the higher education level that includes a minimum of 45 days of supervised teaching practice with students in a school setting, and a formal post graduate qualification in special education of at least one year in duration at the higher education level following the completion of the initial teacher education qualification. Applicants relying on a postgraduate special education qualification to, in-part, meet the professional criterion must have completed a minimum of 45 days of supervised teaching practice in a school setting as part of their initial teacher education qualification to meet the professional assessment criteria. OR 2) An undergraduate initial teacher education qualification with a specialisation in special education of at least one year full-time study (or part-time equivalent), at the higher education (university) level that includes a minimum of 45 days of supervised teaching practice with students within a special education setting. The way I read it, you only need 45 days supervised teaching in a special education setting if you completed your teaching degree as an undergraduate degree. Obviously for both options, the applicant needs to have a full four years of university education, resulting in the equivalent of a bachelor degree, which conandviv obviously does. This means if you did a post-grad qualification in special education, your skills would likely be positively assessed. I know you're looking at a few different agents, which is a good idea! Best of luck If that's the case, the course I was considering was a PgCert Autism and Asperger Syndrome, so if I completed that I would potentially meet criteria for Special Needs Teacher? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oddball Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 (edited) If that is a one-year course (or part time equivalent) at university level, then yes. This being said, I just looked and you can do one in special educational needs, which may be more appropriate. This is where I would suggest the advice of an agent! Edited January 28, 2015 by oddball 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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