JuliePaul Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 Hi guys, we've been in Australia 4 years and are looking at moving back to the UK permanently. when we initially made the move to Aus, we had to complete a form for leaving the UK (cannot remember the name of this form), my question is do we need to complete a similar form to advise the UK government that we are returning permanently from overseas? hope that makes sense, also any other advice of things we need to set up before we make the move home! ☺️ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 Not sure which form you mean for leaving the UK? Do you mean the HMRC tax form? I am not aware of anything similar in Australia - we certainly didn't fill anything in but we purposefully timed leaving employment at the end of the tax year and then just completed a tax return as normal and ticked the box to say it would be out last tax return (it a standard question - I guess because so many people leave - WHV etc.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuliePaul Posted January 2, 2015 Author Share Posted January 2, 2015 Not sure which form you mean for leaving the UK? Do you mean the HMRC tax form? I am not aware of anything similar in Australia - we certainly didn't fill anything in but we purposefully timed leaving employment at the end of the tax year and then just completed a tax return as normal and ticked the box to say it would be out last tax return (it a standard question - I guess because so many people leave - WHV etc.) Yes I think it was the tax one! We are now australian citizens as well, are we able to still claim our super when we reach that age or transfer it to our UK pensions? Also, we own a property here would we have to pay tax on the money that we take back to the UK from the sale of our house here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 We didn't fill in any forms with ATO when we left - I can't 100% say that's right though! You certainly don't have to pay tax on money that you take back from Australia from the sale of a property (assuming it is your residence) As for Super you cannot transfer it to a UK pension (as far as I know) but it will be paid out on retirement so you will get it. We were there 5 years so our Super won't be that much, not sure what we'll do with it - might depend where my son ends up, if he goes back to Australia it might be a useful holiday spends fund! Otherwise you can of course transfer it to the UK once it's paid out - it would be subject to tax over and above tax free allowance, not sure of the rules - too far off for me to get too worried about it and in any case the rules change all the time. If it is a concern from you there is a sub-forum with an expert for advise Andrew from Vista or something like that and Alan Collett is a qualified accountant and also very good. Just noticed you are from Kendal, are you moving back there? It's a place I know well as my in-laws lived there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mungbean Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 The form you filled in when you left UK would have been P85, which is to inform HMRC that you won't be earning and paying tax any more in that year. Usually this means you get a small tax refund. If you don't have PR then you should be able to claim your Super back, minus tax, when you leave Aus. See https://www.immi.gov.au/allforms/superannuation/ You will have kept your P45 from when you left your last employment in UK. When you give this to your new employer there this would kickstart the process of telling HMRC that you are back and working again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryDXB Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 Make sure that you get back on the Electoral Roll as soon as you get back - you can do it online once you have an address, even if its a temporary one. Many businesses use Credit Check companies to check on you; they in turn use the Electoral Roll to verify your existence - you face huge grief if they can't find you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scuffythetugboat Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 (edited) You will fill out a card at the airport when you leave. You'll tick the box 'leaving permanently' which will trigger the big brother system. Simple! When I last went back permanently I didn't fill out a form as such, I did let the revenue know by phone that I was back. All went well. Edited January 3, 2015 by scuffythetugboat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 You will fill out a card at the airport when you leave. You'll tick the box 'leaving permanently' which will trigger the big brother system. Simple! When I last went back permanently I didn't fill out a form as such, I did let the revenue know by phone that I was back. All went well. I was under the impression this was purely 'census' data and had no bearing on the individual at all - having worked in government systems there is virtually no integration between depts so I cannot see DIBP letting ATO know a specific individual ticked a box on a paper form. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scuffythetugboat Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 I was under the impression this was purely 'census' data and had no bearing on the individual at all - having worked in government systems there is virtually no integration between depts so I cannot see DIBP letting ATO know a specific individual ticked a box on a paper form. If was purely census data then why do you have to put all your info on the form then give it to immigration to read. If it was so innocent they wouldn't ask for all your details and then you would drop the form into a box in the corner. Perhaps someone working for Immigration could enlighten us or may they're not allowed to. When I returned to Australia 4 years ago I was contacted by another government department, without any contact from myself, within a month of arriving. How did they know that I was back in the country after 15 years? I renewed my NSW driving license within a week of arriving so they must have obtained my address from them as well as knowing that I had come back for good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LouDYorkie Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 You will have kept your P45 from when you left your last employment in UK. When you give this to your new employer there this would kickstart the process of telling HMRC that you are back and working again. You won't need your old P45. A new employer would only use it if it was within the tax year. As you've been away for a few years, any new employer will gather some info from you (usually on a P46 type form) which gets passed electronically to HMRC (relatively new RTI process). There is no need to call them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rallyjon Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 can i ask as long as its not too personal why you are wanting to come back to the UK? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuliePaul Posted January 3, 2015 Author Share Posted January 3, 2015 We didn't fill in any forms with ATO when we left - I can't 100% say that's right though! You certainly don't have to pay tax on money that you take back from Australia from the sale of a property (assuming it is your residence) As for Super you cannot transfer it to a UK pension (as far as I know) but it will be paid out on retirement so you will get it. We were there 5 years so our Super won't be that much, not sure what we'll do with it - might depend where my son ends up, if he goes back to Australia it might be a useful holiday spends fund! Otherwise you can of course transfer it to the UK once it's paid out - it would be subject to tax over and above tax free allowance, not sure of the rules - too far off for me to get too worried about it and in any case the rules change all the time. If it is a concern from you there is a sub-forum with an expert for advise Andrew from Vista or something like that and Alan Collett is a qualified accountant and also very good. Just noticed you are from Kendal, are you moving back there? It's a place I know well as my in-laws lived there. Great thanks for that! We will have been here 5 years also so same with our super not been much etc and its a fair time away for us to worry too! We have life insurance etc still through our super, is that still valid if your not in the country? As it draws out of our super monthly so if we aren't conributing to the superfund and its not valid we will be as well to cancel? yes we are planning on moving back to Kendal, home is where the heart is, as they say!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuliePaul Posted January 3, 2015 Author Share Posted January 3, 2015 can i ask as long as its not too personal why you are wanting to come back to the UK? Hi Rallyjon I don't mind you asking why we are returning, the long and the short of it is I miss the UK, crazy as it sounds even the cold weather, things I never thought I would miss! The light nights in summer for example, it's dark here at 7pm even in summer! The main reason is we have since had a little boy and I want for him to have a good relationship with all his family, not just a Skype relationship. Don't get me wrong Skype is great but it's definately not the same! It's too expensive to try and come back to the UK every other year as well! Australia is a great country and glorious weather but for me it's not worth the compromise of those close family relationships! I think if you had all your family and friends in Australia then it is the perfect place to live! I knew within the first 6 months that I didn't want to be here forever, hubby loves it and would stay a lifetime, but even this year since having our little boy he has started to feel the pull, that said he still doesn't really want to come back! We've had a great time and made some great friends along the way but home is home! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chortlepuss Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 (edited) We didn't fill in any forms with ATO when we left - I can't 100% say that's right though! You certainly don't have to pay tax on money that you take back from Australia from the sale of a property (assuming it is your residence) As for Super you cannot transfer it to a UK pension (as far as I know) but it will be paid out on retirement so you will get it. We were there 5 years so our Super won't be that much, not sure what we'll do with it - might depend where my son ends up, if he goes back to Australia it might be a useful holiday spends fund! Otherwise you can of course transfer it to the UK once it's paid out - . What if you moved back temporarily prior to cashing in your pension so you were resident in Aus at the time of cashing it in? Could you move back to UK, return to be resident in Aus for a part year/year when aged 65, draw out your pension as a lump sum tax free and return to UK? Is this within the rules? If so, you could have a nice holiday on the 30% tax saved Edited January 3, 2015 by Chortlepuss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rallyjon Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Hi Rallyjon I don't mind you asking why we are returning, the long and the short of it is I miss the UK, crazy as it sounds even the cold weather, things I never thought I would miss! The light nights in summer for example, it's dark here at 7pm even in summer! The main reason is we have since had a little boy and I want for him to have a good relationship with all his family, not just a Skype relationship. Don't get me wrong Skype is great but it's definately not the same! It's too expensive to try and come back to the UK every other year as well! Australia is a great country and glorious weather but for me it's not worth the compromise of those close family relationships! I think if you had all your family and friends in Australia then it is the perfect place to live! I knew within the first 6 months that I didn't want to be here forever, hubby loves it and would stay a lifetime, but even this year since having our little boy he has started to feel the pull, that said he still doesn't really want to come back! We've had a great time and made some great friends along the way but home is home! Thanks for the great reply,much appreciated,Ican understand you saying close family reationships within the family,but quite rightly said,if your family was with you in australia you would stay,is not that the descision your son should make when he is older,it seems like your OH wants to stay aswell, The reason i say this is i think the UK in 10 years ime will be a horrible place to live with whats happening over here,but good luck on your decision and think about not just family relationships but what your son will be growing up into within this country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Great thanks for that! We will have been here 5 years also so same with our super not been much etc and its a fair time away for us to worry too! We have life insurance etc still through our super, is that still valid if your not in the country? As it draws out of our super monthly so if we aren't conributing to the superfund and its not valid we will be as well to cancel? yes we are planning on moving back to Kendal, home is where the heart is, as they say!! To be absolutely certain you would need to contact your Super fund about the validity of the life insurance etc. We chose to cancel ours but actually regretted it - certainly initially, as due to complicated medical history it took months to get life insurance sorted in the UK (I filled the forms in on-line whilst we were still in Australia, expecting almost instant cover and we had to have interviews, Dr's reports etc.) and it was also very expensive so I rather wish we'd just kept our insurance with the Super even though it would have been paid out of our fund plus it now costs us £250 a month so we could have invested that in a UK pension! Eventually of course there would have been nothing left in the fund to pay the policy and I'm not sure what would have happened then. If it is valid then at least keep it until you have UK policies in place, i didn't plan on either of us dying but I was a bit nervous when we had nothing in place! I'm sure when you first get back the amazing landscape in Cumbria will blow your mind, you do get used to it again though - we've been back in Scotland 18 months now - although the snow topped mountains still managed to take my breath away yesterday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 What if you moved back temporarily prior to cashing in your pension so you were resident in Aus at the time of cashing it in? Could you move back to UK, return to be resident in Aus for a part year/year when aged 65, draw out your pension as a lump sum tax free and return to UK? Is this within the rules? If so, you could have a nice holiday on the 30% tax saved Very much not an expert, as there is not much money involved for us and it's still a fair while off - but as I understand it, you do draw your pension out tax free but dependent on how much income you have from other sources it may be taxed in the UK - that's just normal UK tax rules, pension income is not exempt from income tax - of course many pensions get less than the tax free allowance so don't end up paying tax. Could you 'get round' paying tax by living in Australia half the year? If you did then your tax free allowance in the UK would be half and any UK income gained during the 6 months you were in Australia would need to be declared to the ATO and would be potentially subject to tax in Australia. There may be a way if you are super smart to minimise the tax paid but for me with such a small pension pot in Australia (about $50k between us) it probably isn't worth spending half the year in Australia for! This looks quite useful http://www.taxation.co.uk/taxation/Articles/2014/02/05/319941/australian-pension - it complicates matters further if your Australian pension includes money transferred from a UK pension but in our case we didn't do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuliePaul Posted January 4, 2015 Author Share Posted January 4, 2015 Thanks for the great reply,much appreciated,Ican understand you saying close family reationships within the family,but quite rightly said,if your family was with you in australia you would stay,is not that the descision your son should make when he is older,it seems like your OH wants to stay aswell,The reason i say this is i think the UK in 10 years ime will be a horrible place to live with whats happening over here,but good luck on your decision and think about not just family relationships but what your son will be growing up into within this country. Thanks for your reply, I understand what you are saying but I don't want to deny my son or his extended family of having a close bond! Life is too short and we haven't closed any doors, all of us now hold dual citizenship so there is nothing stopping us returning to Australia in the future if the UK doesn't work out! We had a good life in the UK before we left, we just fancied a change while we had no ties but circumstances change, and I believe we can still have a good life in the UK, otherwise I wouldnt even contemplate moving back. other things to consider is healthcare in Australia, there is an ok public system but a lot is private, even going down the lines of paying to see a gp, $200 for a 10 minute dental check up, I know a lot of people moan about the Nhs etc but until uv experienced the other you don't realise how lucky you are to have it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuliePaul Posted January 4, 2015 Author Share Posted January 4, 2015 To be absolutely certain you would need to contact your Super fund about the validity of the life insurance etc. We chose to cancel ours but actually regretted it - certainly initially, as due to complicated medical history it took months to get life insurance sorted in the UK (I filled the forms in on-line whilst we were still in Australia, expecting almost instant cover and we had to have interviews, Dr's reports etc.) and it was also very expensive so I rather wish we'd just kept our insurance with the Super even though it would have been paid out of our fund plus it now costs us £250 a month so we could have invested that in a UK pension! Eventually of course there would have been nothing left in the fund to pay the policy and I'm not sure what would have happened then. If it is valid then at least keep it until you have UK policies in place, i didn't plan on either of us dying but I was a bit nervous when we had nothing in place! I'm sure when you first get back the amazing landscape in Cumbria will blow your mind, you do get used to it again though - we've been back in Scotland 18 months now - although the snow topped mountains still managed to take my breath away yesterday. Thanks I think I will contact them and off possible keep it like you say until we have other policies in place! Any my regrets about moving back? Where in Aus did you live? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marisawright Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 (edited) What if you moved back temporarily prior to cashing in your pension so you were resident in Aus at the time of cashing it in? Could you move back to UK, return to be resident in Aus for a part year/year when aged 65, draw out your pension as a lump sum tax free and return to UK? Is this within the rules? If so, you could have a nice holiday on the 30% tax saved I think that would be difficult to do - you'd have to be sure you wouldn't be classed as resident in the UK, and that you would qualify as resident in Australia. The rules determining residency are quite different in each country. You might have to sell up in the UK, and the costs of doing that for the sake of a few months would probably cost more than the tax saved! The way to avoid the problem is to take a pension from your superannuation, not the lump sum. The pension will be treated as ordinary income by the UK tax office, but if you're retired you may not be earning much over the tax-free threshold anyway, and so won't be subject to much tax. If you take the lump sum, it is tax free in Australia but the UK tax office will regard it as an investment and will take capital gains tax for the profit you've made on it since you left Australia - which could be a big chunk. Edited January 4, 2015 by Marisawright Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fizzybangs Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Yes I think it was the tax one! We are now australian citizens as well, are we able to still claim our super when we reach that age or transfer it to our UK pensions? Also, we own a property here would we have to pay tax on the money that we take back to the UK from the sale of our house here? You need to leave an Australian bank account open as super do not send abroad. No you do not pay tax on the house money anywhere but if you invest it or leave it in bank account for any length of time and ear interest you might depending on how much you earn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.