newjez Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 (edited) It may well have lost it's direction but surely you must agree that it is totally wrong for someone to give advice that's its ok to act not only irresponsibly but illegally too, and it is that which I can not let pass without putting it to rights. I wasn't giving advice to anyone, we were just discussing what was and what wasn't legal. Ethics is another thing entirely, and is a personal thing. Why do we teach our children to share when it is rarely in their interests to do so? Are ethics unprofitable? Anyway, I thought we'd answered the thread long ago. Yes you can pay off your credit card overseas, but it is expensive to do so because of the exchange rate. I've done it myself. Edited June 19, 2014 by newjez Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k8bug79 Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 Oh how I love how these threads end up :smile::smile: To answer your question with experience. We have left a couple of cards back in the UK (We have been here nearly a year) we have changed all the addresses to here and we send a lump sum back through Moneycorp to pay off the monthly payments. The GBP is strengthening against the $ and therefore we are not clearing as much as we would like. Cancel all insurances, ppi etc as none are valid over here. There is no problem keeping a UK bank account open just make sure they'll send replacement cards to you when you need them. We added my Mum as a 3rd party signatory to our joint account which was suggested by Natwest as they said that way she can come in and change addresses and make inquiries on our behalf. I will admit to being tempted to walk away, I question who wouldn't, but I am too scared that regs will change and we will have a can of worms to deal with. However they are least of my priority. If things get tough they'll be the first thing to be missed. In response to the 'How can you afford to move' posts, we moved over on a budget and we didn't have any luxuries. We are now way better off than in the UK, have a really good quality of life and have just bought a brand new car. So it's achievable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si T Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 Your statement.. If I had debt in the UK which I wanted to leave because it made commercial sense for me to do so then I would and without a single guilty feeling on my part. No mention of financial hardship just a commercial decision. So yes I did (and do) question your ethics in this regard. Is this what you recommend to your clients ? Maybe I need you to do my tax. I'm sure you could get me a massive refund. Which part of further clarification do you not understand? Again a cheap shot to make you feel better. Get over yourself. Tell you what, you keep your small minded views and I will go back to living my life in the real world rather than judging people on an Internet forum. Deal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misstatt Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 This is exactly why we need to assess people's character before granting them a visa. So morals are out the window these days, all that counts is a commercial decision. Okay so theft is okay, ripping off pensioners - no problem. Why should anyone worry about morals as long as they enrich themselves. I am totally disgusted. Are you in a position to grant visas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerxes Posted June 19, 2014 Author Share Posted June 19, 2014 Oh how I love how these threads end up :smile::smile: To answer your question with experience. We have left a couple of cards back in the UK (We have been here nearly a year) we have changed all the addresses to here and we send a lump sum back through Moneycorp to pay off the monthly payments. The GBP is strengthening against the $ and therefore we are not clearing as much as we would like. Cancel all insurances, ppi etc as none are valid over here. There is no problem keeping a UK bank account open just make sure they'll send replacement cards to you when you need them. We added my Mum as a 3rd party signatory to our joint account which was suggested by Natwest as they said that way she can come in and change addresses and make inquiries on our behalf. I will admit to being tempted to walk away, I question who wouldn't, but I am too scared that regs will change and we will have a can of worms to deal with. However they are least of my priority. If things get tough they'll be the first thing to be missed. In response to the 'How can you afford to move' posts, we moved over on a budget and we didn't have any luxuries. We are now way better off than in the UK, have a really good quality of life and have just bought a brand new car. So it's achievable. Thanks for picking up the thread again for me here! With regards to paying your credit card, how exactly did you do it? My credit card is with Lloyds, who I bank with. I've got a current account and 2 savings accounts with them, so do I close those and just leave the credit card open? Do I tell the bank I'm emigrating? What address do I give them? Sorry for all the questions but I really haven't got a clue! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pablo Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 (edited) Ok,serious now,this is what i think,off the top of my head,the banks(amongst others)have had to pay out billions in compensation over useless PPI policies,they fixed the LIBOR rate we borrow and raise mortgages on,some of them were fined massively,but did joe public get any recompense because of this fraud? They also got away with massively overcharging for "fines" on accounts for years,£35 pound for a computerised letter?honestly! We just had RBS arm,"Global Restructuring Group" deliberately engineering small businesses to go bust,with exorbitant charges and fees,so they could then buy these companies themselves when they went bust,for peanuts. The Royal Mail sell off was another one that cost the tax payer fortunes,the very same banks that "advised" gvnmt on the share price profited by millions within days of the sell off,Lazard bought 6 million shares at £3.30,then sold them at £4.70 a cpl of days later,making £8 million in the process. Lazard at one stage advised selling the shares at £2.12! yer couldn't script it. They've been stealing off the lot of us for years,but the public aren't interested in that,in general anyway,they're too big and powerful for us to worry about eh. Lets moralise and condemn "our own" if they cant(or wont) repay a debt though,it's easier isn't it. The bankers are the real thieves,i wouldn't condemn anyone who stung the banks,others can if they want,your choice,but i wont,i have strong principles on debt,life in general,and doing the right thing,but not when it comes to institutions that have been fleecing us for years,balls to them That's my opinion,it wont change,so don't bother preaching to me,just google "banking scandals",and see how many times these unscrupulous bastards have fleeced you,me and the tax payer in general. The gvnmt has a hobby horse,"scroungers" who they demonize,yet they sit round a table and wine and dine fraudsters who have been fined millions by the courts all over the world,Lazards,the Rothchilds,Merrill Lynch,they're all at it,and have been forever,google the federal reserve scandal in the USA,its unbelievable the amounts we are talking about. So condemn the little man walking away from debt if you want,i only wish the public got as outraged over the real fraudsters,right,i've had me rant,i'll leave this thread alone now,tara!:wubclub: Edited June 19, 2014 by pablo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerxes Posted June 19, 2014 Author Share Posted June 19, 2014 Ok,serious now,this is what i think,off the top of my head,the banks(amongst others)have had to pay out billions in compensation over useless PPI policies,they fixed the LIBOR rate we borrow and raise mortgages on,some of them were fined massively,but did joe public get any recompense because of this fraud? They also got away with massively overcharging for "fines" on accounts for years,£35 pound for a computerised letter?honestly! We just had RBS arm,"Global Restructuring Group" deliberately engineering small businesses to go bust,with exorbitant charges and fees,so they could then buy these companies themselves when they went bust,for peanuts. The Royal Mail sell off was another one that cost the tax payer fortunes,the very same banks that "advised" gvnmt on the share price profited by millions within days of the sell off,Lazard bought 6 million shares at £3.30,then sold them at £4.70 a cpl of days later,making £8 million in the process. Lazard at one stage advised selling the shares at £2.12! yer couldn't script it. They've been stealing off the lot of us for years,but the public aren't interested in that,in general anyway,they're too big and powerful for us to worry about eh. Lets moralise and condemn "our own" if they cant(or wont) repay a debt though,it's easier isn't it. The bankers are the real thieves,i wouldn't condemn anyone who stung the banks,others can if they want,your choice,but i wont,i have strong principles on debt,life in general,and doing the right thing,but not when it comes to institutions that have been fleecing us for years,balls to them That's my opinion,it wont change,so don't bother preaching to me,just google "banking scandals",and see how many times these unscrupulous bastards have fleeced you,me and the tax payer in general. The gvnmt has a hobby horse,"scroungers" who they demonize,yet they sit round a table and wine and dine fraudsters who have been fined millions by the courts all over the world,Lazards,the Rothchilds,Merrill Lynch,they're all at it,and have been forever,google the federal reserve scandal in the USA,its unbelievable the amounts we are talking about. So condemn the little man walking away from debt if you want,i only wish the public got as outraged over the real fraudsters,right,i've had me rant,i'll leave this thread alone now,tara!:wubclub: Lol! I just don't want to start my new life looking over my shoulder and dreading the post coming in case its a threatening letter. Therefore I shall continue paying my debt from Australia! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pablo Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 Lol! I just don't want to start my new life looking over my shoulder and dreading the post coming in case its a threatening letter. Therefore I shall continue paying my debt from Australia! Good for you X,i mean that btw,not being sarky,all i'm saying in the novel above is this,i cant "blame" people for treating banks and financial institutions with the same contempt they've treated us for years,all the above minuscule examples of "their" fraud are a drop in the ocean,haven't mentioned bankers bonuses,or the GFC,largely caused by bankers taking risks,"because" of that bonus system. So i'm not moralising one way or the other,just saying i can understand joe public saying "balls to it,everyone else is fiddling,why cant i?" Right,back to the footy,hope Aus is all you want it to be btw,good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noworriesmate Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 So @pablo, when you or others stick it to the bank, who actually is going to get hurt? NWM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pablo Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 So @pablo, when you or others stick it to the bank, who actually is going to get hurt? NWM Elaborate dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noworriesmate Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 Elaborate dan Well - who is the bank?, were you meaning the staff who would end up losing their jobs, or the various pension funds who hold the shares that our elderly in society rely on? or were you meaning the fat cats who sit in their offices making all the decisions? Because if it's the last, their contracts are so tight they are set for the rest of their lives irrespective of the decisions they make. My point is, when people advocate sticking it to the banks, IMO all it does is perpetuate the problem in hurting the 'little man' who has done nothing wrong. I like your passion and the 'spirit' of what you say but in practice all it does is hurt more people - I can't go with that. NWM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 I guess it is possible to justify anything on that sort of logic isn't it. The big supermarkets are ripping of the dairy farmers, therefore it is acceptable for me to go shoplifting at Coles, if I can get away with it. Where does it end. The better protest would be not to have any credit cards with any banks I would have thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest241083 Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 I guess it is possible to justify anything on that sort of logic isn't it. The big supermarkets are ripping of the dairy farmers, therefore it is acceptable for me to go shoplifting at Coles, if I can get away with it. Where does it end. The better protest would be not to have any credit cards with any banks I would have thought. .......sorry PC but its this attitude that lets it continue..... ........until people vote with their feet.... ........use the small shops..... ........farmers markets...... ........don't use credit....... ........we will continue to be ripped off.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 I was just trying to make a point tink. Where does it end, if we are happy to rip off the bank because we think they are immoral do we condone stealing from supermarkets if we think they are underpaying the farmers etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest241083 Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 (edited) I was just trying to make a point tink. Where does it end, if we are happy to rip off the bank because we think they are immoral do we condone stealing from supermarkets if we think they are underpaying the farmers etc. ........it ends when we do something....... ........all to easy to just use supermarkets..... ........accept that the money borrowed ........ .........has accrued extra interest due to circumstances out of our control........ .........if we don't do something....... .........we will loose the privilege of choice......IMO.... ........just to add ...... ..........banks are controlling the world we live in...... ...........often manipulating.......by....controlling ..........businesses across the country by unnecessarily engineering a default to move the business out of local management and into their turnaround divisions, generating revenue through fees, increased margins and devalued assets. ..........then once in this part of the bank, the business is trapped with no ability to move or opportunity to trade out of the position – ...............they are forced to stand by and watch anr otherwise successful business be sunk by the decisions of the bank. ..............The bank extracts maximum revenue from the business, beyond what can be considered reasonable and to such an extent that it is the key contributing factor to the business’ financial deterioration...........another small business bites the dust......! Edited June 19, 2014 by Tink .....added Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith and Linda Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 I wasn't giving advice to anyone, we were just discussing what was and what wasn't legal. Ethics is another thing entirely, and is a personal thing. Why do we teach our children to share when it is rarely in their interests to do so? Are ethics unprofitable? Anyway, I thought we'd answered the thread long ago. Yes you can pay off your credit card overseas, but it is expensive to do so because of the exchange rate. I've done it myself. Don't think I was quoting you newjez, just what had been posted on this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flybyknight Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 i think it's important to understand how the banks do what they do. these are businesses that needed a financial bail out by the government, that then went on to make huge profits in a relatively short space of time. even while not lending as much to the small guy on the street. the question on everyone's lips should be 'how?' we have always been shown how the BOE sets the rate, and decides how much money is in circulation to control inflation. evidently however the freedoms the banks have allows them to create their own money. worth a read.... http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/mar/18/truth-money-iou-bank-of-england-austerity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k8bug79 Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 Thanks for picking up the thread again for me here! With regards to paying your credit card, how exactly did you do it? My credit card is with Lloyds, who I bank with. I've got a current account and 2 savings accounts with them, so do I close those and just leave the credit card open? Do I tell the bank I'm emigrating? What address do I give them? Sorry for all the questions but I really haven't got a clue! Hi Xerxes, I left both my current accounts open- They both had a small overdraft on that we had hoped to clear but just didn't. We downgraded to the basics. i.e no rewards as we couldn't access them. To start with we put them at my Mums address just to stop the post going to my old address and as soon as we had a permanent address we wrote and amended it. Halifax was easy, they accepted the letter. Natwest is a pain and to be honest I don't think it's been changed completely as they required us to go into branch or send a verified signature by a JP etc.! but anyway it is still able to be used. I tried to close the Halifax recently but the forms didn't reach us on 2 occasions so I have decided as it is at nil it can sit there. So each month we transfer a lump sum from our Oz accounts to our UK accounts through Moneycorp and then just pay our bills through online banking from our UK account. It takes about a week to process and so you have to do it well in advance of due date but it's the cheapest way of doing it. You probably can pay direct to the card in $ but there would be a poor conversion rate. We still have the debt, to be honest it will probably take a while to clear as we are chipping away at it. Of course it is appealing to just run away as suggested above but for now we feel morally obliged to do what we can and hopefully one day we'll be in a position to clear it. Good luck with the move. It certainly isn't ideal to come over with money still owing in the UK. But life isn't ideal and we have done it and look forward to the day that we can keep that money currently being used for UK debt to stay in our account! But our life is so much better that I would never tell anyone to not move just because they have to send money home to clear a credit card! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith and Linda Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 I wondered what people do about credit card debts when they emigrate. We can't afford to pay it off before we go. Can you transfer an outstanding balance on a credit card in the UK to one in Australia? Thanks. OK in answer to your original post, I would thought it doubtful but there are a couple of Aus banks in the UK (commonwealth and NAB are just two I know of) HSBC are world wide too and you can link accounts I believe, you can try asking your question to any of them, they may be willing, but you may need to open an account with them 1st. You could keep your UK bank accounts open and pay it off from Aus, but you will be triple whammied on debt interest, exchange rates and exchange fees. Though not knowing your personal circumstances, and understanding the need for some cash to emigrate, is there any chance of getting some form of loan to pay off your credit card (bank or family)? paying down credit card debt is very very expensive, and this must always be the 1st debt to be cleared as soon as you can. Good luck with everything Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si T Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Well - who is the bank?, were you meaning the staff who would end up losing their jobs, or the various pension funds who hold the shares that our elderly in society rely on? or were you meaning the fat cats who sit in their offices making all the decisions? Because if it's the last, their contracts are so tight they are set for the rest of their lives irrespective of the decisions they make. My point is, when people advocate sticking it to the banks, IMO all it does is perpetuate the problem in hurting the 'little man' who has done nothing wrong. I like your passion and the 'spirit' of what you say but in practice all it does is hurt more people - I can't go with that. NWM Hi NWM I understand where you are coming from with this but you have to draw a line somewhere. For example if I were to say that if you bought something from a retailer in a sale, their profits for the year would be lower, thereby reducing shareholder wealth which reduces the reurns for the shareholders which are generally pension funds. Pension fund returns are then lower which means that the man in the street does not get as much of a private pension when he retires. I have intentionally gone to the extreme to get my point across and obviously don't believe that people should not buy at sales prices because of this but hopefully you get where I am coming from. By the way, I don't advocate sticking it to the banks even though I personally lost my job with one of them due to the cuts they had to make. It was just business and not personal. I simply come from the position that if people get to a point where they have to not pay them off they should not be vilified for that. Cheers Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si T Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Ok,serious now,this is what i think,off the top of my head,the banks(amongst others)have had to pay out billions in compensation over useless PPI policies,they fixed the LIBOR rate we borrow and raise mortgages on,some of them were fined massively,but did joe public get any recompense because of this fraud? They also got away with massively overcharging for "fines" on accounts for years,£35 pound for a computerised letter?honestly! We just had RBS arm,"Global Restructuring Group" deliberately engineering small businesses to go bust,with exorbitant charges and fees,so they could then buy these companies themselves when they went bust,for peanuts. The Royal Mail sell off was another one that cost the tax payer fortunes,the very same banks that "advised" gvnmt on the share price profited by millions within days of the sell off,Lazard bought 6 million shares at £3.30,then sold them at £4.70 a cpl of days later,making £8 million in the process. Lazard at one stage advised selling the shares at £2.12! yer couldn't script it. They've been stealing off the lot of us for years,but the public aren't interested in that,in general anyway,they're too big and powerful for us to worry about eh. Lets moralise and condemn "our own" if they cant(or wont) repay a debt though,it's easier isn't it. The bankers are the real thieves,i wouldn't condemn anyone who stung the banks,others can if they want,your choice,but i wont,i have strong principles on debt,life in general,and doing the right thing,but not when it comes to institutions that have been fleecing us for years,balls to them That's my opinion,it wont change,so don't bother preaching to me,just google "banking scandals",and see how many times these unscrupulous bastards have fleeced you,me and the tax payer in general. The gvnmt has a hobby horse,"scroungers" who they demonize,yet they sit round a table and wine and dine fraudsters who have been fined millions by the courts all over the world,Lazards,the Rothchilds,Merrill Lynch,they're all at it,and have been forever,google the federal reserve scandal in the USA,its unbelievable the amounts we are talking about. So condemn the little man walking away from debt if you want,i only wish the public got as outraged over the real fraudsters,right,i've had me rant,i'll leave this thread alone now,tara!:wubclub: Hey Pabs While I get where you are coming from I don't believe in sticking it to them in return. We have to find a way to make them more accountable to us, the general public. Makes me sound like a communist but that couldn't be further from the truth. I am a true blue capitalist but I believe that it must be controlled so that it benefits the whole country and not those in positions of privilege. I understand that this is an almost impossible goal but if you don't try then it is certainly unachievable. The FSA was supposed to do this but it was pretty much a toothless tiger. I come from the position that where people have to make a choice between paying the bank and putting food on the table then they should not be vilified for making the decision to leave their debts behind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noworriesmate Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Hi NWM I understand where you are coming from with this but you have to draw a line somewhere. For example if I were to say that if you bought something from a retailer in a sale, their profits for the year would be lower, thereby reducing shareholder wealth which reduces the reurns for the shareholders which are generally pension funds. Pension fund returns are then lower which means that the man in the street does not get as much of a private pension when he retires. I have intentionally gone to the extreme to get my point across and obviously don't believe that people should not buy at sales prices because of this but hopefully you get where I am coming from. By the way, I don't advocate sticking it to the banks even though I personally lost my job with one of them due to the cuts they had to make. It was just business and not personal. I simply come from the position that if people get to a point where they have to not pay them off they should not be vilified for that. Cheers Si I don't think your example works as the reason why businesses put things on sale is that they couldn't sell them at full price, ergo if they didn't sell them at discount they would lose the whole revenue from the item and therefore hit profits far more than they would by discounting them. My point is that I do not believe that it is OK for people to arbitrarily decide they cannot afford to pay off their debts which they took out in good faith, either for the reasons Pablo has stated or the ones you have. The right way to do this is to go through proper process, either through a debt management plan which often reduces the debt considerably, by negotiation withe the lender directly, or in the worse case scenario by going down the bankruptcy route. If people genuinely can't pay there are ways of legitimately dealing with this but IMO, simply deciding to walk away from ones obligations should not be one of them, but then again I believe the same with any agreement, whether it be debt, employment or even marriage. Yes agreements can be broken but if we don't do it the proper way society crumbles as eventually we are left with anarchy with everyone out for themselves - that's not a society I find attractive. NWM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si T Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 (edited) I don't think your example works as the reason why businesses put things on sale is that they couldn't sell them at full price, ergo if they didn't sell them at discount they would lose the whole revenue from the item and therefore hit profits far more than they would by discounting them. My point is that I do not believe that it is OK for people to arbitrarily decide they cannot afford to pay off their debts which they took out in good faith, either for the reasons Pablo has stated or the ones you have. The right way to do this is to go through proper process, either through a debt management plan which often reduces the debt considerably, by negotiation withe the lender directly, or in the worse case scenario by going down the bankruptcy route. If people genuinely can't pay there are ways of legitimately dealing with this but IMO, simply deciding to walk away from ones obligations should not be one of them, but then again I believe the same with any agreement, whether it be debt, employment or even marriage. Yes agreements can be broken but if we don't do it the proper way society crumbles as eventually we are left with anarchy with everyone out for themselves - that's not a society I find attractive. NWM I am happy for us to agree to disagree on this. If we all shared the same views then the world would be a boring place. I guess I get riled in the way that the views are expressed rather than the views themselves. Although I would be inclined to disagree that the items only go on sale because they can't sell them. It is also a proactive sales strategy. Surplus stock can more easily be dealt with by robust stock management. Edited June 20, 2014 by Si T Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith and Linda Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 I am happy for us to agree to disagree on this. If we all shared the same views then the world would be a boring place. I guess I get riled in the way that the views are expressed rather than the views themselves. Although I would be inclined to disagree that the items only go on sale because they can't sell them. It is also a proactive sales strategy. Surplus stock can more easily be dealt with by robust stock management. Stock is actually produced specifically for sales, so is it a sale item or are we being ripped off? Marketing ploys! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si T Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Stock is not held specific to a particular sale, especially in retail. Stock is held in the hope of selling it during the period for which it is planned and if it is not then it will be sold in a clearance sale. I would say that it is a bit of both, although ripped off is probably a bit strong (I prefer your use of Marketing Ploy), as it will be held as an item to sell but in the knowledge that it can be sold at a lower sum should it not clear in the "season" (using clothing retail as an example). The goods are bought at full value and often sold at less than cost, especially when you factor in stock holding costs relating to the warehouse, shipping etc. It isn't just the cost price from the supplier which needs to be taken into account. I see your point that the manufacturer will often produce in relation to specific purchase orders from their customers but the general public do not buy under those terms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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