What to do if you miss the school application deadline?

[Aunt Agatha]

Thanks Wattsy, I am trying to do all the right things to give my kids the best start in life while still holding true to my principles. No one ever said it would be easy! I don't expect anything to be handed to me, here or in the UK, hence all the hard work I am doing now to try and get the balance right.

 

Great news that your soon-to-be-local schools aren't usually oversubscribed. I wonder what effect the change from three tier to two tier will have?

I am not very good at being pushy unfortunately (I'm the sort of person who apologises to the GP for bothering him when I'm ill!) I am hoping to win them over with my wit and repartee :wink:

[Xenon4017]

You don't have to justify your decisions to me or anyone else.

 

I only posted because you asked if there is an outcry in the UK over this. And the answer is, no, no more than usual. There would be more of an outcry if returning migrants got better treatment than those paying into the system right now. As it stands, you get to choose where you live, but this conveys no guarantees regarding school placements. You might find this disappointing, but the groundswell of opinion isn't behind you on this issue. You may even find that as a recent migrant, you are at the back of the queue.

[wattsy1982]

As it stands, you get to choose where you live, but this conveys no guarantees regarding school placements. You might find this disappointing, but the groundswell of opinion isn't behind you on this issue. You may even find that as a recent migrant, you are at the back of the queue.

 

I dont see that Aunt Agatha is is expecting/demanding that she will auto get 'the' school just because shes played it well and moved into the right area.

 

Ultimately the final say is with the powers that be all Aunt Agatha can/is going to do is do all she can on her part to stand her in the best possible position for selection. She is moving back at a time to be able to choose live in the catchment area. I think any family in the UK would love to live in the ideal catchment area but obviously its just not logistically possible to just keep moving, they just pick the right area for primary/junior and have faith in the system that their child will be lucky and follow the 'usual' path of schools.

[Aunt Agatha]

"You don't have to justify your decisions to me or anyone else.

 

I only posted because you asked if there is an outcry in the UK over this. And the answer is, no, no more than usual. There would be more of an outcry if returning migrants got better treatment than those paying into the system right now. As it stands, you get to choose where you live, but this conveys no guarantees regarding school placements. You might find this disappointing, but the groundswell of opinion isn't behind you on this issue. You may even find that as a recent migrant, you are at the back of the queue."

 

 

Indeed.

 

I must correct you one final time on your assumption that as a returning British citizen I am expecting better treatment than those who live in the UK currently. You are completely off the mark there.

 

I was simply interested to know if there was an outcry/media coverage over what seems to be a messy system and some schools oversubscribed while others are half-empty etc. There must be a fair few parents, from all echelons of society, feeling stressed about the process. Anecdotally, the British friends I have spoken to since discovering how the system works have all said "it's a nightmare" so it would seem there is basis for the idea that people aren't happy with it.

 

Anyway, moving on...

Edited June 2, 2014 by Aunt Agatha

[wattsy1982]

people moving back (to any country) are in a tough situation from the off.

 

When we moved here we were told "I wouldnt expect anything as you are not citizens, fair point.

 

BUT

 

When we return we are told "i wouldnt count on anything as youve been living away for x years....again, fair point.

 

One of the reasons we left the UK was because of all the handouts to foreigners so I sure as hell wouldnt expect/want to be given things over anyone else but I would hope that on the whole, our situation, like yours Aunt Agatha we tick most boxes and are by no means the 'best candidate' but also not the worst.

 

All the best

[Aunt Agatha]

Cheers ears.

 

Part of the problem is that I didn't know about any of this stuff until yesterday. This situation never came up when I was a kid and of course we never needed to look into it until now. I concede that my stress and confusion about the situation could have come off as moral outrage which of course is not how I feel at all. Mostly it just seems like a big old hassle, especially when you're trying to work it all out from 16,000 km away. I am already worried about choosing the "wrong" place to live so potentially choosing the "wrong" school or having it chosen for us adds a certain amount of pressure.

[MovingtoTasmania]

 

@Aunt Agatha There was an outcry during the late 90's when the Greenwich ruling first came in to effect and now, because of the problems we are currently having with an influx of European migrants arriving, some areas do suffer more than others. There have been some (quite inflammatory IMO) articles in the dailies about parents who can't get their children in to local schools and recently an article about one family in particular who have one child at one school and they were allocated a place for their older child at a secondary school some distance from where they live and apparently it's going to be a bit impossible to drop/collect both children at beginning/end of school. There weren't people who lived in a big city either! I think you'll be fine as going to Northumberland, I don't believe there is such a high concentration of people there and also, I have friends in that part of the country and have never heard of problems with school allocation up there. If you were going to London, Surrey, Kent etc., it would be a different story.

[Aunt Agatha]

Thanks MovingtoTasmania. Northumberland is our intended destination but we may end up elsewhere due to job opportunities so could still struggle. I think it's awful that siblings can't always be enrolled in the same school, that's something I really want for my kids.

[caramac]

Do Scottish schools have the same criteria for entry? Maybe it'll be different if you end up in Edinburgh?

 

I've not heard of it being a problem outside cities or the SE. We had a choice of primary schools in Norfolk when we returned from Perth. It was a few years ago now, but not much has changed there since.

My friend lives in Wells, Somerset and has four children. I spoke to her last night and she said she had no problem getting her children into the schools (primary and secondary)of her choice either. They are at three different schools.

Do you ever look at that well known forum for mothers? There is always lots of advice in the education section there, but most of the angst seems to be in and around London, Birmingham, Manchester...

[Aunt Agatha]

I'm not sure Caramac, it's something I'll need to look into. It sounds like maybe we'll be okay if we stay away from the big cities. I just don't know if that's possible yet. It's hard having to wait on X before we can do Y as there is no way to just crack on and get some things sorted. We'll be fine one way or another I'm sure.

 

 

I know of the well known mother's forum of which you speak but have never been on there - I'll check it out now, thanks.

[Aunt Agatha]

Quick update in case it's useful for anyone else.

 

I emailed the relevant council about moving from Australia and this is part of their response:

 

"You can choose up to 3 preferred schools in the order of your preference. Each school is processed as a separate application and a criteria placed against each school. The schools in X can be oversubscribed and it is best to list more than one school. If you apply after the closing date your application will be processed as a late application and may disadvantage you in that you may not be offered your preferred school. No application is processed until after the closing date and not on a first come first served basis.

 

You can apply from Australia online but it would be helpful for you to provide supporting documentation regarding your proof of residency in order to apply the correct criteria for each school. A copy of a tenancy agreement or solicitors letter to say you are completing on a sale by September 2015 or if you own a property already you are returning to a document that links you to the property."

Edited June 3, 2014 by Aunt Agatha

[gabbycat]

I don't know if this is any help but I've just moved bcd to the UK with a primary and secondary school child. Both schools were academies and therefore we had to apply directly to the school rather than messing about with applications to county. In Somerset you apply to county if you are joining the first year of a school along with the whole intake i.e. Reception or year 7 but if you are joining an academy mid year then you apply direct to the school. We found dealing directly with the schools very easy and had no trouble getting the places we wanted.

[Aunt Agatha]

Thanks gabbycat. That doesn't apply to my preferred schools at the moment and we are applying to reception class but it's good to know that others might be able to apply direct to the school.

@wattsy1982 could be useful for you?

 

Finding a decent rental in our budget that meets our needs (including allowing pets) is proving the biggest challenge at the moment. Obviously things could change between now and Oct but there seems to be very little out there in the town we want to live.

[cathy99]

For what it's worth I'll give you my limited knowledge, although not that limited as I worked in the school admissions team for 12 years so I can tell you how it was in the south west, I understand it may be different in different parts of the country.

 

for the first instance, there is nothing stopping you from applying for a school in an area if you know the area you will be moving too, even if you are abroad - in North Somerset we didn't have 'catchment area' they were called area's of responsibility, meaning anyone living anywhere could apply for a school place - but the tricky bit came, if the school was over subscribed then they have a criteria they have to follow, which is Looked After children first, then children with siblings then distance. So for instance say you apply for a school and you're still in Australia after the deadline and it's filled up with LA children and siblings then every single applicant that applied for that school after these criteria had their addresses measured as the crow flies so it is then done on distance, so obviously the person living closest to the school would be offered a place and if you're in oz then that puts you at a disadvantage, but like I said doesn't stop you applying. You would then be put on a list in number order of who is closest to the school, but you wouldn't be able to alter your address once you move it is taken from the address you are at at the time of applying.

 

It's always best to put all your 3 options down otherwise if you don't get your first choice you will just be offered the next nearest school with a place available.

 

Another option would be to apply for a school place using your parents address, which is allowed (well it was in our area) and all they would have to do is write a letter to confirm that yes you were living with them.

 

With regards to feeder schools, this was never the case in our area, secondary schools were done on catchment only, again there was nothing stopping you from applying for a school outside of catchment but if it was oversubscribed then the same criteria would be applied.

 

Hope this helps x

[Aunt Agatha]

Thanks Cathy99, it is helpful to have that extra information.

 

Unfortunately it doesn't apply to my case as the three primary/first schools we like are usually oversubscribed, as is the secondary school. One of the oversubscription criterion of our preferred secondary school is children whose education would benefit from continuing within the learning trust (i.e. those attending the feeder schools), distance from the school gate is another (this is after cared for children etc.) So it makes sense to try and get back our eldest to start her school journey at one of the feeder schools and for us to try and live as near to the school as possible. Of course we may end up being offered a different school anyway. Our parents don't live in the same local authority as the area we want to live so can't use their address, though it now looks like we will be staying with them for a short while.

 

Another option is to forget about these particular schools altogether and go back to the drawing board which is looking increasingly likely!

[Sustain]

That's exactly it Gbye Grey Sky, we need to be "on the ground". Yes I've noticed the increased rents around a good school when searching on Rightmove and I read that a property in a good catchment can add 20% to it's sale price.

 

This moving countries thing is not for the faint hearted. My head is spinning.

 

Have you been looking at the schools around Harrogate?

 

I need to get a primary (year 5 and year 10)

 

Have you seen this school:

http://www.hlc.org.uk/parents/

Edited June 9, 2014 by Sustain

[Aunt Agatha]

I had a quick look when I clicked on the "map & schools" tab on Rightmove.co.uk. I Googled a couple of OFSTED reports and they weren't that great! But of course I have no idea what area of the town I was looking in, I'm sure there are lots of really good schools. I didn't come across the school you linked to but we're not looking for private schools and as I have a daughter and a son I want them to go to the same co-ed school.

 

I wonder what Harrogate is like for work?

[Sustain]

I had a quick look when I clicked on the "map & schools" tab on Rightmove.co.uk. I Googled a couple of OFSTED reports and they weren't that great! But of course I have no idea what area of the town I was looking in, I'm sure there are lots of really good schools. I didn't come across the school you linked to but we're not looking for private schools and as I have a daughter and a son I want them to go to the same co-ed school.

 

I wonder what Harrogate is like for work?

 

Oops didn't even notice about whether it was private

 

It apparently takes boys until 11?

 

You were looking for business analyst work? or was that your hubby? sorry mind like a sieve today

[Guest Guest 47403]

I had a quick look when I clicked on the "map & schools" tab on Rightmove.co.uk. I Googled a couple of OFSTED reports and they weren't that great! But of course I have no idea what area of the town I was looking in, I'm sure there are lots of really good schools. I didn't come across the school you linked to but we're not looking for private schools and as I have a daughter and a son I want them to go to the same co-ed school.

 

I wonder what Harrogate is like for work?

 

Harrogate itself is not great for work, most work is in Leeds, Harrogate is nice but not worth living in if you have to commute to Leeds IME. There are nice areas closer to Leeds without the nightmare commute.

[Aunt Agatha]

I did see it takes boys until 11 but I am looking for a co-ed school that goes all the way through. My DH is looking for business analyst/information management work, I'm hoping to hang on to my freelance work from Australia.

 

Thanks Baz, that's what I suspected. Could you suggest some nice places closer to Leeds please? I am keeping a very open mind about areas and DH has noticed a couple of good roles in Leeds.

[Sustain]

Harrogate itself is not great for work, most work is in Leeds, Harrogate is nice but not worth living in if you have to commute to Leeds IME. There are nice areas closer to Leeds without the nightmare commute.

baz, what commute times would I expect from harrogate too Leeds by train or car?

Would also like alternative recommendations if you can think of some that allow proximity to both harrogate and Leeds.

[Guest Guest 47403]

baz, what commute times would I expect from harrogate too Leeds by train or car?

Would also like alternative recommendations if you can think of some that allow proximity to both harrogate and Leeds.

 

Not sure about the train as I always drove I used to leave at 7:15am to get to the office for 9am about a mile before Harewood house you're just crawling in, I left the office at 5:30 and got home for around 6:40pm it's only about 19 miles but really isn't a nice commute.

 

As for Alternatives I would seriously look at Guiseley and Yeadon.....even Rawdon and Horsforth a bit closer into Leeds.

[Guest Guest 47403]

I did see it takes boys until 11 but I am looking for a co-ed school that goes all the way through. My DH is looking for business analyst/information management work, I'm hoping to hang on to my freelance work from Australia.

 

Thanks Baz, that's what I suspected. Could you suggest some nice places closer to Leeds please? I am keeping a very open mind about areas and DH has noticed a couple of good roles in Leeds.

 

See above for areas Aunt A.

[caramac]

baz, what commute times would I expect from harrogate too Leeds by train or car?

Would also like alternative recommendations if you can think of some that allow proximity to both harrogate and Leeds.

 

 

My friend lives in Boston Spa and commutes to Leeds. It's a lovely little town with a good community. She had one child at the Grammar School at Leeds - http://www.gsal.org.uk and has one here - http://sjfchs.org.uk, which is obviously Harrogate. Her daughter gets the bus to Harrogate.

[Tappers2oz]

I don't know if this is any help but I've just moved bcd to the UK with a primary and secondary school child. Both schools were academies and therefore we had to apply directly to the school rather than messing about with applications to county. In Somerset you apply to county if you are joining the first year of a school along with the whole intake i.e. Reception or year 7 but if you are joining an academy mid year then you apply direct to the school. We found dealing directly with the schools very easy and had no trouble getting the places we wanted.

 

We applied to an academy but still had to go through the council. (Appeals are done by the academy though so that's a bonus.)

Guess it differs from area to area.