Bulk billing is dead. Not a good time to be in Australia if you are sick

[Paul1Perth]

I have lived in a country (actually, countries ...) where that is exactly what happens. This is the way in the whole of Asia. If you do not earn your way, and if you have no family, you die. Exactly - tough poop. Should we adopt that here? No. But there has to be a middle way, a compassionate way. I think the budget could .... could, just maybe ... be a start.

 

I think we had a pretty fair compassionate way before the budget, the budget sent it a bit too close to the "tough poop" direction for me.

[Paul1Perth]

I don't hate you but I do think that people might read it and know to whom you are referring. It's a long shot but it's still possible.

 

Let them read it then and if they were half as bad as docboat said they should be hanging their head in shame. Doubt it though, they would never admit it to themselves that they could possibly resemble the people he's talking about.

[Paul1Perth]

Now there is where we can, and should, have welfare support.

 

Unlike in many Asian countries. Where people do actually thrive despite having come to expect that there is absolutely no safety net. Which is why, when they come over here, they are surprised - astounded - that our society chucks so much money away. We are so far away from being able to emulate that thinking, that it would be impossible for us to copy.

 

Or not thrive and just die. But who keeps count or reports it, no-ones bothered, just the way it is. Do we really want that kind of society here?

[Paul1Perth]

I would have thought it was more like commonsense. When did living beyond your means become so commonplace that when someone suggests living within your means, it's spin?

 

Try telling that to 90% of the aborigine community.

[Tina2]

I can't say what will be worth it. I can only speak from my personal experience, which is that I personally don't buy into this whole "let me put my hand out" scenario and I never have. I, like @docboat, believe that if you can't afford it, you don't have it. I wonder how many of the people who will be directly be affected by this $7 copayment either drink occasionally or have takeaways or smoke? Government can't police people but then if people can't be sensible with money either, then what is your suggestion? You seem to think that everything I say is wrong and that people should churn out kids without pausing to think of the consequences, well what is your answer then?

 

Center Link now have a sort of management card, and rather than getting cash in hand those that abuse the money given get this card to pay the rent, food, esentials. The frustrating thing about this thread is that the LNP supporters cant seem to see that most of use agree that lazy people MUST be made to work, BUT there has to be the work out there, and yet again i say you cant have a blanket rule, people have different reasons for being on unemployment. Even if it were something as simply ticking a box. Are you under the requirements of Family Court answer Yes, then you keep your benifits. Are you working part time or have shown a strong history of casual work in the last 6 months, answer Yes Keep benifits, are you studying answer yes keep benifits. Answer NO well different story. I fully support getting kids off the streets and into some form of work but you cant just tip them out on to the street or the crime rate will go through the roof. Early in this thread I even suggested 2 years military service as an option. No not going overseas to fight in some conflict, but to be based here in Aus. They could learn a basic trade, self respect and disapline.

Edited May 26, 2014 by Tina2

[Tina2]

I can't say what will be worth it. I can only speak from my personal experience, which is that I personally don't buy into this whole "let me put my hand out" scenario and I never have. I, like @docboat, believe that if you can't afford it, you don't have it. I wonder how many of the people who will be directly be affected by this $7 copayment either drink occasionally or have takeaways or smoke? Government can't police people but then if people can't be sensible with money either, then what is your suggestion? You seem to think that everything I say is wrong and that people should churn out kids without pausing to think of the consequences, well what is your answer then?

 

So if you cant afford the rent you should not have a place to live ?? Oh of course you can sleep in the car with your 3 kids.

[jasepom]

News is the copayment won't get passed through parliament. The whole budget is a fiasco if you ask me. There's nothing in there that is good for this country. With some luck we will have the govt losing it's support and hopefully an early election called.

[AJ]

 

So if you cant afford the rent you should not have a place to live ?? Oh of course you can sleep in the car with your 3 kids.

Now you are beeing Overdramatic!!

[Tina2]

I have said so many times that I do not support the so called "dole bludgers", and yes if people on low incomes are buying cigarettes and alcohol then sure they can afford the copayment. I am talking about the people who do not abuse the system, the vulnerable, the elderly, the disabled etc., these are the people who will suffer. If the liberals want to attack these "dole bludgers" then they need to look far more closely at their welfare system and attempt to put steps in place to target the right people. But they're not doing that, they're targeting everyone on a low income, earning or not. And their propogranda is making lots of people believe what they're doing is right too, that's the sad thing.

 

Of course people shouldn't produce child after child if they can't afford it, but we're heading into dangerous territory if we're talking about sterilising them - I don't know what the answer to that one is, I wish I did.

 

Scrap the baby bonus and the paid maternity leave thats a good place to start. Use that money for higher subsidies on things like before and after school care so single parents can work and know there kids are safe. Bring back the old style trade schools so kids can be in school but from gr 10 can start learning a trade, yes I know they can do that at TAFT but it is the fees that are the issue, and if still in school they can continue with there basic education. If we are to head down the road the LNP want of "everyone" working and little or no welfare there needs to be a huge mind shift and look at what is done overseas, so workers can bring children to work and they are cared for in the companies child care center.

[AJ]

The baby bonus has been scrapped

[Tina2]

We could perhaps assess the absent parent's lifestyle? If they have to live like paupers without any luxury they may think it's not worth it and put their hand in their pocket. I don't understand the mentality of these people tbh.

 

Exactly ! and there is a government dept looking into CS right now to see what can be done. No good baseing CS on the tax return, to easy to hide money when you are self employed. Surely if the claim is they are on a low income and cant pay but own an expencive home, have nice holidays, and several cars then surely alarm bells should start ringing. Another thing to consider is "household" income rather than just the absent father as many tranfer assetts in to other peoples names like the current girl friends name.

[Paul1Perth]

News is the copayment won't get passed through parliament. The whole budget is a fiasco if you ask me. There's nothing in there that is good for this country. With some luck we will have the govt losing it's support and hopefully an early election called.

 

My guess is they'll negotiate with PUP and the other parties that might swing it for them, reduce some things, fiddle at the edges and then make people believe they've come out of it pretty good.

[Tina2]

Now you are beeing Overdramatic!!

 

Well actually NO this is the reality of the situation. Go ask the salvos, or St Vincent De Paul who are trying to desperatly house people who have already hit rock bottom, Goodness only know what will happen if the welfare payment changes get through.

[flag of convenience]

I'd say the $7 payment is a furphy which looks like it won't get off the ground. Palmer looks to not support many of the proposals and as such the Senate will block most all the bills. The budget though does clearly display the sheer arrogance of the ruling party in attempting to push through such a right wing budget on broken promises. At some stage the slogans had to cease and some substance come into play ahead of thrill political ideological crassness.

Hardly smart attempting to introduce such change in one hit considering the make up of the Senate and the fact that Palmer, though to the right, is far removed from any number of budget desired policy.

I suppose it begs the question will Abbott remain leader in the medium term?

[Skani]

The baby bonus has been scrapped

 

Although it has been replaced by a "Newborn Upfront Payment and Newborn Supplement" (:rolleyes:) for many people.

[Paul1Perth]

I'd say the $7 payment is a furphy which looks like it won't get off the ground. Palmer looks to not support many of the proposals and as such the Senate will block most all the bills. The budget though does clearly display the sheer arrogance of the ruling party in attempting to push through such a right wing budget on broken promises. At some stage the slogans had to cease and some substance come into play ahead of thrill political ideological crassness.

Hardly smart attempting to introduce such change in one hit considering the make up of the Senate and the fact that Palmer, though to the right, is far removed from any number of budget desired policy.

I suppose it begs the question will Abbott remain leader in the medium term?

 

Palmer is just out for himself and if he thinks it will get him in the news and a bit of publicity who knows what he would support. He's making it up on the fly.

[flag of convenience]

Palmer is just out for himself and if he thinks it will get him in the news and a bit of publicity who knows what he would support. He's making it up on the fly.

 

He is but it would appear kind of fancies himself as a bit of a maverick champion of the people. As long as it doesn't impact on his business ambitions it is fair reckoning that he won't play ball with Abbott.

[Paul1Perth]

He is but it would appear kind of fancies himself as a bit of a maverick champion of the people. As long as it doesn't impact on his business ambitions it is fair reckoning that he won't play ball with Abbott.

 

He fancies himself allright. Not sure whether it's as a champion of the people though. If people are daft enough to believe he could give two hoots about anyone other than his public profile and what's good for Clive Palmer then those that voted for him might feel happy enough.

 

Couldn't believe he got any votes tbh, the guys a political joke. Guess it just showed how bad the other parties were.

[jasepom]

He fancies himself allright. Not sure whether it's as a champion of the people though. If people are daft enough to believe he could give two hoots about anyone other than his public profile and what's good for Clive Palmer then those that voted for him might feel happy enough.

 

Couldn't believe he got any votes tbh, the guys a political joke. Guess it just showed how bad the other parties were.

 

He started off as a joke but he's actually winning a lot of support for his opposition to the budget. He was the first polly on the radio to denounce the PMs rhetoric about the economic crisis. He is someone who's not willing to toe the line with the Liberals so we at least have someone in opposition that's willing to ask questions.

 

if you listen to the guy he's actually a passionate Australian. He has a public profile sure but he doesn't seem to care about his reputation he's just a straight talking guy no bullshit.

[Diane]

At the risk of being accused of posting more 'leftie' links (:wink:) I enjoyed this article with some very sensible suggestions http://theaimn.com/2014/05/25/horse-trading/

[GreatToBeBritish]

Well as a nurse in a very busy emergency department I actually wholeheartly agree with this. I have just spent $400 on my dog at the vets for an eye complaint. We seem to be ok with paying for vets bills etc and yet when it comes to paying for your own medical stuff there is a mutany.

 

The stupid silly things that people come into ED for that could go elsewhere for help .. but they choose to come to ED at no cost to them. I would be more than happy to pay $7 to see a qualified medical practitioner for myself or family if I was concerned in anyway. .. Rant over

[Paul1Perth]

Well as a nurse in a very busy emergency department I actually wholeheartly agree with this. I have just spent $400 on my dog at the vets for an eye complaint. We seem to be ok with paying for vets bills etc and yet when it comes to paying for your own medical stuff there is a mutany.

 

The stupid silly things that people come into ED for that could go elsewhere for help .. but they choose to come to ED at no cost to them. I would be more than happy to pay $7 to see a qualified medical practitioner for myself or family if I was concerned in anyway. .. Rant over

 

You choose to have a dog or not though and as far as I know the medicare contributions don't go to vets. I would gladly pay extra into medicare for the doctors to be free for everyone. Cut out a whole heap of cost for processing who is and isn't going to get charged too. Doctors costs are going to increase just because he has another job to do now in making sure people pay, record it somewhere and probably report on it to some government department.

[Diane]

I was chatting to a friend that lives in the US the other day - he ended up out of work for a short period and was so stressed out about it: not so much because of the work angle, but because without a permanent job that includes health insurance as part of the package he was going to have reall difficulty paying the premiums for his family. He had heart scare a short while back and had to go into hospital for one night for tests - the bill was $14,000. For one night. Luckily the tests were all clear and at the time he was employed and his company picked up most of the bill, meaning he only had to find about $1,500 himself. I think Abbott wants the Australian system to mirror the American system as much as possible, and this conversation brought it home to me just how disastrous for the average Australian worker that would be. Fine for those of us earning mroe than Barack Obama for whom the threat of unemployment is about as remote as the chance of finding the missing Malaysian Airlines jet (how much of our money has he spent on that so far anyway?), but for those not so fortunate who have to do a real job, in the real world, perhaps a very scary future.

[fairystar32]

actually there was a woman with kids sleeping her a van not far from my home, the community got her help. Situations change things happen, not everyone is a dole bludger.

 

Now you are beeing Overdramatic!!

[caramac]

Well as a nurse in a very busy emergency department I actually wholeheartly agree with this. I have just spent $400 on my dog at the vets for an eye complaint. We seem to be ok with paying for vets bills etc and yet when it comes to paying for your own medical stuff there is a mutany.

 

The stupid silly things that people come into ED for that could go elsewhere for help .. but they choose to come to ED at no cost to them. I would be more than happy to pay $7 to see a qualified medical practitioner for myself or family if I was concerned in anyway. .. Rant over

 

 

In what way will charging a co payment to those who can't or don't want to pay it reduce attendance at an ED?

 

You having a dog is your choice - him or her being healthy has no advantage to society. Having a healthy workforce does.