FIFO Mining & Construction Information Session in Perth

[Karl Dyble]

Hi all,

 

I'm originally from England and have been working in FIFO (Fly In Fly Out) mining and construction pretty much since my arrival in Australia 4 years ago. I now run a successful Health & Safety Training company delivering qualifications to most industries including mining and construction in WA. I've posted a few threads on here about getting FIFO jobs and have received a healthy number of replies packed with questions. They are generally the same questions from people who know nothing about FIFO, mining or construction in WA. I don't mean that as a bad thing, I knew nothing about it when I arrived in Perth! Now I know plenty and I would like to share this information with anyone who is interested.

 

However, to stop me from getting an RSI from typing the same thing over and over, I thought I would test the water to see if there was any appetite for Poms (that includes Scots, Welsh, Northern Irish and Irish as far as I'm concerned) to attend an information session in Perth on the subject of FIFO jobs in WA. I would cover:

 

 

 

• CV writing Aussie style
  
• Where to look for jobs
  
• Job / industry options
  
• Required qualifications
  
• Training and tickets - the do's and the definitely don't do's!
  
• Visa requirements
  
• FIFO Life (the good and the bad)
  
• Salary expectations
  
• Answer any questions and provide specific individual advice.
  

 

 

I run a training company so imparting knowledge to people who need it, is pretty much what I do. I'll tell you now that I'm not going to do this for free as I would need to hire a venue and you would all think yourselves hard done by if there wasn't a cup of tea and a biscuit or two to be had but most importantly my time is as valuable as yours! I'm thinking of arranging it for a Saturday in Perth. Please send me a private message and depending on how many reply, I will arrange something ASAP and let you know what I'm going to charge.

 

If you think that I'm being a bit mercenary by charging for this session just think why you are looking at FIFO as a work option in the first place..........MONEY and lots of it. In that case it's only fair that you invest in your own future by paying me to give you advice on how to achieve your goal. Not only this but by advising you on how not to waste money on training courses that won't get you anywhere, I'll be potentially saving you thousands. Sounds fair? You bet it does.

 

Private Message me telling me who you are, where you are (suburb) and how many of you would like to attend.

 

Cheers

 

Karl.

Edited April 17, 2014 by Karl Dyble

[AJ]

Is your company a Registered Training Organisation? What training do you offer? Are your qualifications nationally accredited?

[Karl Dyble]

Hi,

 

I'll have to be quick as I'm off to see a client. My co deals with nationally accredited Work Health and Safety (WHS) Certificate IV and Diploma but I partner with another company who can pretty much provide whatever you want. Give me a call in about 40 mins on 0400 464 883 of you want or reply with you requirements.

 

Cheers.

 

Karl

[VERYSTORMY]

I would just say though that most of this information is available on here. There are a number of regular posters on here that work FIFO either in mining or construction at a range of levels from trades people to senior management

[northshorepom]

What's your view of the prospects with the wind-down in new mine developments, Karl?

[AJ]

Hi,

 

I'll have to be quick as I'm off to see a client. My co deals with nationally accredited Work Health and Safety (WHS) Certificate IV and Diploma but I partner with another company who can pretty much provide whatever you want. Give me a call in about 40 mins on 0400 464 883 of you want or reply with you requirements.

 

Cheers.

 

Karl

I think most of the guys looking for FIFO information would be tradies and for example - Electricians - you dont need Cert IV and Diplomas in WHS, your white card is sufficient. When jobs are advertised they generally tell you what tickets they require and its not really hard to find out who is recruiting etc. Am sure you provide a service to some but personally I wouldnt pay for any of this information, it is all readily available for free as already said by VS.

[Guest Guest66881]

I don't think i will be giving away money into a sector where it is commonly known as a who you know industry, that coupled with a decline in mining in general of late further makes me look at this type of 'opportunity' with some scepticism.

But thank you for bringing it to my attention.

[Karl Dyble]

Hi,

 

mining in WA and the world over has always been boom and bust and anecdotal evidence puts a figure of about 7 years on this cycle (in WA) at least. The USA, Europe and China are key to Australian and more importantly Western Australian prosperity, the more disposable income the US and Europe have, the more Chinese produced goods and Japanese cars are bought which means more steel is required for cars, factories and machinery which in turn drives up demand for Aussie iron ore. More demand for iron ore means more mines, means more exploration, more construction and more demand for people like you and me. Why am I giving you a lesson in supply and demand, I hear you ask? Because, the USA added 192'000 jobs last month (or something like that), the UK is tipped to go beyond its growth forecast and lead European financial growth and China has surpassed its own expectations of growth by several percent.

 

So, my view is that things look like they are on the mend and while it'll take a while for the trickle down effects to reach WA it, will happen. When? I don't know and if I did, I'd be writing this from my Mansion in Cottesloe overlooking the Indian Ocean! Add to this three more factors:

 

1. The world aint getting any less populated and with a house, cooker, TV and a car almost seen as basic human rights, the demand for goods and services will only rise and quickly.

 

2. Australia now is like the USA at the turn of the last century and anyone who thinks that a country this rich in resources, this safe, this beautiful, this inviting and so full of opportunity will stay as underpopulated as it currently is, needs to read a history book. Despite the many bumper stickers saying "f&^% Off! We're full", the population will rise and there will be a massive demand for housing and infrastructure, especially in the more sparsely populated states like errr....I don't know, Western Australia? WA is a long way from anywhere and they are not going to go overseas and import what they already have in their own back yard, which will need to be dug up, processed, and manufactured by the likes of you and me.

 

3. Consider WA’s competitors in the minerals game; Brazil, Nigeria, Congo and many other ‘emerging’ economies. With the greatest of respect to those countries their record on corruption, safety, human rights and environmental performance is less than perfect. China is investing massively in Africa to try and control and exploit the almost untapped natural resources but all it takes for China to lose some or all of this investment is another coup or war, which let’s face it seem to happen pretty regularly! So where would you rather invest? How about a nice safe country, with a stable political environment, near to home, good human rights conditions and environmental performance where you KNOW your investment will be guarded and no-one is going to run off to Switzerland with billions of your hard invested US dollars. I can think of somewhere…. Australia.

 

Anyone who says the mining boom is over may well be right but mining hasn’t gone away, it’s simply normalised and is poised (in my view) for another expansion fairly soon. Once the government gets rid of the mining and resources taxes, the resources companies know where they will stand and may then be able to give the go ahead for some of the projects that are on hold.

To summarise my view, as that is all that this is, don’t worry too much about a perceived ‘wind-down’ as history tells us that things will get better which is not to say that they are currently bad. My last mining job offered, 8 days on and 6 days off on a mine site for $135’000 a year with an additional 4 weeks holiday to add to the 6 days in every fortnight you already get off and the free accommodation, food, travel, clothing, Superannuation, health care, discounts and unlimited sick leave! Nowhere in the world compares to WA for conditions and pay. So don’t be concerned about what will be as no-one, not even me, can know, concentrate on what it is like now which is pretty damn good.

 

Phew! How was that?

 

Karl.

[Karl Dyble]

Hi AJ, VS and Paul and Deb

 

That's cool, if you can get the information for free that's great. You can also get all the information you need to emigrate to Australia for free on this site yet lots of people choose to use Migration Consultants. Some people are OK with reading and piecing information together themselves and some people like to have the information presented to them. This is based on different learner characteristics and the difference between Auditory and Visual leaners. Some like to read it and some like to hear it said. As a training professional I know that there is demand for both types and as such people are free to choose the delivery medium that best suits their individual learner needs. I have already received a number of private messages expressing an interest in this information session.

A point to remember too is that time is a resource and has a cost associated with it so you could spend many hours or days searching on-line for free information or you could pay someone like me a small sum, intended only to cover costs associated with venue hire, refreshments and a bit of my time, to present it to you.

 

AJ, as for your view on people looking for FIFO work mainly being tradies, all I can say is that you must not have been on many mine sites or mining construction projects as the number of support and services staff is huge and on some projects, equal to the number of tradies. Also, who said anything about Cert IV WHS and Diploma in relation to my information session? That was a different post asking what my company offers, not what the intention of the information session was.

 

Thanks for the replies guys and keep them coming.

 

Karl.

[northshorepom]

How was that? Over optimistic, I'd say

 

I agree *in general* with your long-term take, but not in the short-medium term. Resource investments are big ticket items and local workflow coming through from them takes 2-3 years to gear up from when the investment decision is taken, which isn't now. On the contrary, I see a fairly sharp decline (you haven't started to really feel it yet) in the short-medium term.

 

Take a look a these forward projections for transport infrastructure and the drop off that's started and will continue - these forecasts are pretty accurate over that timeframe as they are reliant on the investment decisions of the miners, which are already known.

 

 

 

Also, I don't buy into your view on sovereign risk. People in the developed world overestimate IMO the concern resource companies have for "safe" countries with good human rights and environmental records. In the resources game (I used to work in oil & gas) it's all about volume of throughput and the bottom line $ that can be earned per unit. When you're pumping a million barrels a day from a fairly modest facility, an extra 10c per barrel in costs is a lot of profit lost. At the same time you have to keep a lid on Capex as the investments are big ones and are amortised over a long production period. Their take on sovereign risk is similarly evaluated in $ terms and in those terms, stability and corruption rank pretty low on the concern list. Bigger on the list of concerns is nationalisation risk (as you lose the lot), unpredictable taxation changes (because you'll get your forward projected margin eaten away) and cost escalation, either on the Capex or Opex sides. From the PoV of the first one, Australia is a very safe bet; on the latter two it's anything but.

 

I'm not saying it's doom and gloom; on the contrary, I agree that mining is boom and bust and comes round in cycles. Problem is you're at the start, in terms of Capex (and that's where most of the jobs lie) of a bust, not a way through it. In 5-10 years time the picture will be very different again

[Guest Guest66881]

My last mining job offered, 8 days on and 6 days off on a mine site for $135’000 a year with an additional 4 weeks holiday to add to the 6 days in every fortnight you already get off and the free accommodation, food, travel, clothing, Superannuation, health care, discounts and unlimited sick leave!

 

So what did you do?

[Karl Dyble]

Hi northshorepom,

 

You did ask for my view. You're right though, I am an optimist. Another of my views is that optimism leads to action, pessimism leads to inaction and you don't get squat by doing nothing. I believe that even in a flat or contracting market there are opportunities, you just have to try harder. You obviously know your stuff so I'll bow to that but the truth is that no-one knows, not even those in the know! In fact I'm reading a great psychology book at the moment and it talks about investment brokers and how all of their knowledge, experience and research into the goings on in the business world actually gave them less chance (based on previously analysed data) of making a profit on an investment than a chimp throwing darts at sealed envelopes! Let's let the chimps run the place and see how we get on.

 

Cheers.

 

Karl.

[Karl Dyble]

Hi Paul and Deb,

 

in what respect do you mean what did I do? If you mean as a job, I worked as a Health and Safety Advisor and Safety Trainer for a big named mining company.

[Guest Guest66881]

Yeah sorry didn't make clear thanks,

my other big obstacle is the one of previously employed people in the mining sector and the knowing others still in it, gives the new guy a poor start at getting in.

I know a lot of people with good quals and experience in the jobs they have but still no real way into that sector, so how would doing your event make that easier or differ from doing the leg work ourselves just by knocking doors etc?

Most see the mining sector as a closed industry more so now and for years to come - the old saying goes, 'it ain't what you know but who you know'.

[Karl Dyble]

Hi

 

Nepotism? In mining? This is the first I've heard of it! Only kidding. Nepotism is everywhere, just look at George W Bush and Kim Yong Un.

 

Moving to Australia and making a new start is hard and it's even harder to do that and then move into an industry which pretty much doesn't exist in the UK. That's not to say it's impossible, I managed it. Mining is not all run by Neanderthal rock apes employing their old pal 'Chipper' because they go way back. There are things called HR departments who are pretty thorough and like to see a well presented CV with the right information on it including the applicable training and qualifications. There are also some companies who exist solely to exploit to FIFO wannabes and will offer you extremely costly and ultimately useless, when combined with no experience, training courses. There are different ways in to mining and you may need to take a less direct route etc.

 

You said in your post that "I know a lot of people with good quals and experience in the jobs they have but still no real way into that sector, so how would doing your event make that easier or differ from doing the leg work ourselves just by knocking doors etc?" Has the 'leg work' approach worked? If not why not? Answer these questions before we discuss it any further.

 

Cheers.

 

Karl.

 

 

Yeah sorry didn't make clear thanks,

my other big obstacle is the one of previously employed people in the mining sector and the knowing others still in it, gives the new guy a poor start at getting in.

I know a lot of people with good quals and experience in the jobs they have but still no real way into that sector, so how would doing your event make that easier or differ from doing the leg work ourselves just by knocking doors etc?

Most see the mining sector as a closed industry more so now and for years to come - the old saying goes, 'it ain't what you know but who you know'.

[newjez]

Not making a judgement, but this does sound like one of those property investment seminars that you get at the end of a property boom. You know, the ones where they take all the desperate mums and dads for one last ride before the boom crashes.

[Karl Dyble]

Hi,

 

For someone not making a judgement, this sounds a lot like a judgement. If you don't want in that's fine but please don't put other people off with your uniformed opinions. I have already stated my reasons for proposing this information session in my original post and why there might be a cost involved. (Please read it more carefully).

 

I also object to you insinuating that I'm trying to take people for a ride. Why would you say that and what are you basing it on?

 

My original post was written with only the best intentions in mind for the reasons stated and I have already discussed with a mining recruitment consultant who is a friend of mine to offer practical advice to those who are struggling to get a foot in the door.

 

What if I had proposed a BBQ for members of poms in oz to help them get to know each other and settle into Australian life, maybe show a few slides and give out some leaflets of useful information or ask a speaker or two along to give advice to make the task of assimilation into Australian society a little easier, oh and by the way there might be a small cost involved to cover venue hire and a few drinks and some of my time in arranging it?

This example parallels exactly what I was proposing in my original post. Do you think people would say, why do they need to come to this event when they can find friends on this forum or people don’t need this kind of event for whatever miserable uninformed reason that they can pull out of their behind?

 

This is my last post on the subject. If you want information about the mining industry, go and find it yourselves. If you want to throw your money away on useless courses that will get you nowhere, go right ahead, if you want to send CV after CV and get nothing and generally sit around moaning about how mining is all about what who you know and not what you know then that’s fine too. Maybe after months of frustration and getting nowhere fast you might think differently about someone who was offering a service for which there is obviously a demand (if not, why do I constantly get private messages on the subject) and the inconvenience of paying a small sum for someone to arrange it, hire a venue in which to present it and cup of tea and a bite to eat.

 

Now I remember why I moved out of the UK. The negativity!

[AJ]

Hi,

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is my last post on the subject. If you want information about the mining industry, go and find it yourselves. If you want to throw your money away on useless courses that will get you nowhere, go right ahead, if you want to send CV after CV and get nothing and generally sit around moaning about how mining is all about what who you know and not what you know then that’s fine too. Maybe after months of frustration and getting nowhere fast you might think differently about someone who was offering a service for which there is obviously a demand (if not, why do I constantly get private messages on the subject) and the inconvenience of paying a small sum for someone to arrange it, hire a venue in which to present it and cup of tea and a bite to eat.

 

Now I remember why I moved out of the UK. The negativity!

Actually, a lot of us are doing quite nicely thanks

[Guest Guest66881]

No need to get all shirty, talking of shirts just taken mine off while i jump in my pool in my backyard of my house, like i said i know lots who have made the attempt and all have failed half of them are own business owners, go figure.

You say you worked as a health and safety consultant earning the mega mine bucks, why jack it in then?

[VERYSTORMY]

I will throw in my tupence on the industry.

 

Most of you know me, for those that don’t I am the senior geologist and project manager for an Australian miner with projects in several countries and I am currently based at a large (probably the largest advanced exploration project) in Africa. I have experience of working at a number of the largest nonferrous mines in Australia and on some of the largest exploration projects as well as a number of projects in Africa, South America and Asia.

 

First I will address the issues of mining in the developing world.

Put simply, they are not as bad as seen and while there are some negatives such as finding high caliber staff can be a challenge in some, the pluses are that there are many people wanting to better themselves and are very loyal if treated well. The political risk in most developing countries is actually very small. In fact there have been periods in the last few years where most international mining companies had Australia in the top 5 for having the worst political risks. The vast majority of Africa for example is fine to work in and the governments are very keen to be seen to be proactive to get investment. Infrastructure is often no worse from a mining perspective than Australia - both are often remote. There are a number of advantages of places such as Africa, particularly costs. We are about to commence our drilling for the season. We will be using an Australian drilling company, with Australian drillers and Australian made rigs. My drilling cost - the biggest chunk of this year’s budget - will be about half of what I would pay to have the same company drill in Australia.

 

If I want to buy a dump truck in East Africa, it costs me about 60% of what the same truck would cost in Australia.

 

Next, the future for mining

I am very pessimistic for the short to medium term (0-5 years). Simply because there is too much metal either on stream or about to come on stream, while at the same time the demand for it is reducing. Many people point to China and say it is still buying lots of metal. True, it is. However not necessarily for the reasons people think. The vast majority of iron ore now going into china is not being sent to mills to produce steel. It is being stored and used as collateral for loans for other things. At the same time, even the Chinese government is starting to accept that there is a major problem with private and corporate debt and is starting measures to impact it.

We see that in the other metals such as zinc and nickel whose prices are much lower. Nickel has had a recent bounce due to Indonesia banning nickel concentrate exports, but every analyst expects that ban to be lifted in the near future.

Gold is still actually at a very good price – I remember only a few years ago there were parties in Kal when it went over $1200. The problem for Australia is that most of the large deposits – Sunrise, Granny Smith, Telfer and others are getting towards end of mine life. Super Pit, the biggest of them all only has a couple of years mining left. At the same time there is very little exploration going on and a general acceptance that any big deposit is now going to be deep – meaning very difficult and expensive to explore and beyond the budgets of all but the biggest companies and the big companies have the ability to choose from anywhere in the world to explore.

[Cockney68]

Anyone know if Karl is still kicking about the forum ???

[VERYSTORMY]

He hasn't posted since this thread which is 2.5 years ago.

 

If you have a question, I am sure some of us can help.

[AJ]

Obviously his course didnt go down too well then!

[amibovered]

I imagine demand for it has fallen a fair bit in the last two and a half years.

[Cockney68]

The slippery prick was running Advantage training and has just closed the business leaving people with unfinished qualifications. They were taking enrollments up until the beginning of Feb. I just did 8 months study on a diploma for bugger all. Offered refunds etc but has since vanished off the face of the earth. Hopefully no one else will get mugged by him