Alan Collett Posted October 3, 2009 Share Posted October 3, 2009 Hi stephsuej. Being settled is more of a qualitative issue, save only that the longer a person is residing the easier it generally becomes to demonstrate that s/he is "settled " in Australia. I think 3 months residency is probably too early. 6 months is more sustainable if supported by the usual attributes of someone who "usually resides" and is more clearly committed to Australia. See also: Go Matilda - Your Gateway to Australia - News and Go Matilda - Your Gateway to Australia - News Best regards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gollywobbler Posted October 3, 2009 Share Posted October 3, 2009 Hi GollywobblerGood to read your reply We hope to follow our girls and famlies to Australia and hope we can spend the Visa processing time there with them. 1 of our daughters and her Australian husband leave for Kyabram with their 2 girls on Monday,and the other daugher and family leave Boxing Day for Canberra Do you think we would we be able to apply for CPV after 3 months of the 1st daugher with the OZ husband being there???? then go down the road of 12 month visa visits????? or would we have to wait 2 years settle period before the CPV application ? We want to keep things legal and in order and you certainly give some brilliant advice. Many Thanks Stephsuej Hi Stephsuej Does your daughter have Permanent Residency on her spouse visa, please? Since she and her Aussie hubby have two children I imagine that DIAC would have granted your daughter Permanent Residency from the outset but it is crucial to check this point. People are easily gulled by the fact that the Aussie Citizen child in law can sponsor a CPV very promptly. It does not work unless the blood child involved also has Permanent Residency first. Sometimes Spouse visas only grant Temporary Residence to start with, which forces the Parents to wait. It is important not to fall into this trap so please check whether or not your daughter is a Permanent Resident of Oz. In theory Aussie son in law could sponsor you for CPVs once he has spent no more than 3 months back in Oz. Policy specifically says so but it also requires DIAC to look at the facts. The sponsor undertakes that if Parents fall on hard times during their first two years out in Oz, the sponsor will ensure that Parents are adequately housed, clothed, fed and have enough cash to get by on, so as to ensure that Parents won't become eligible to claim anything from Centrelink instead. The legislation requires that your son in law must be sufficiently "settled" in Oz to enable him to fulfil his sponsorship; undertaking. He must be sufficiently settled by the time the CPV application is submitted. This is a Time of Application requirement so the date of the application is the relevant date, NOT the date of the eventual decision about whether to grant the CPV or not. How settled Son in Law will be by the time he has been back in Oz for 3 months depends on the facts on the relevant date - which nobody can predict before he even gets to Australia, hon! Go Matilda - Your Gateway to Australia - News I would suggest as follows: Let both daughters get to Oz and get themselves sorted out so that you will have places to stay when you follow. Then go to Oz for at least 6 months and have a good look around. A CPV is a very expensive way of making an avoidable error. What if one or other of your children can't stand Oz once they get there? I know a couple who are in this very Catch 22 as we speak. Daughter is married to an Aussie and she was given PR straightaway. The miggration agent who acted for the Parents had stacks of experience and he stalled for as long as he could, discouraging a premature CPV application. Out in Oz, Daughter was violently homesick for the UK but she insisted that she would recover once Mum & Dad joined her. They obtained a temporary CPV 173 and followed daughter to Oz. Mum & Dad love Oz and would love to spend the rest of their lives there. However Daughter has found that Mum & Dad's joining her has not cured her homesickness. She remains determined to return to the UK but not for another 3-5 years. The Parents are totally stuck. Their CPV 173 was granted at the end of Jan 2008. The only other visa they are eligible to apply for is the upgrade to the CPV 143. If they decide to upgrade they must apply before the end of Jan 2010. If they gamble and do the upgrade, they could then copy their daughter - who might turn out to be a Ping Pong Pom. Doing the upgrade would solve one set of problems. However if daughter then does not stay in Oz long term, Parents would not have enough capital left to be able to return to the UK and buy themselves a home of their own back here. If they leave Oz in Jan 2010 then a couple of long stay tourist visas would have been a FAR better option than around $40,000 AUD simply wasted on two CPV 173s. It is a dreadful situation because none of the possible options work well - if at all. There is a lot of sense in DIAC's policy of trying to discourage Parents from rushing to apply for expensive CPVs until the situation in Oz has had a chance to settle down and show us which way the family facts and feelings are likely to go in the long term. DIAC have the stats on their side. A surprisingly high number of new migrants find themselves unable to settle happily in Oz. The ones who are not going to stay generally leave Oz within 2 years of their initial arrival. However a significant proportion of the early returners then become Ping Pong Poms. The only way that CPV holders can follow Ping Pong children around is if they pay for CPV 143s first OR they do not apply for Parent migration at all until they have given their children's situations enough time to gel fully so that there is no doubt about where the extended family will eventually settle in the long term. It is easy to say, very difficult to do but it is NOT a good idea to permit emotion to drive your decisions. Missing your close family is not nice but it is survivable. My instinct is that the best thing Parents can do is to take gentle, small steps. If either of your daughters hates Oz, at the moment you would be able to facilitate a return to the UK. If you sell up here and go racing to Oz to await CPVs, you risk making one or other daughter feel that no matter how miserable she is, she will have to grin and bear Australia because of your evident wish to move there as well. I would suggest that you consider a six month visit to Oz in 2010. Now is not a good time to sell homes in the UK and the exchange rate is against you as well Waiting will do less harm to your coffers than not waiting. I would suggest a very light touch for the next year or so, in order to get the message across to both daughters that they have not necessarily taken any irrevocable steps. Mother is the one who is really going to be able to sense whether both daughters are settling well and are shaping up to spend the rest of their lives out in Oz. If they were my daughters, I would promise to make a lengthy visit as soon as it is practicably sensible to do so and I would tell them both that Dad & I are coming for a rekky, with decisions being deferred until after the rekky is over. I would resist pleas of, "Promise me that you and Dad will follow asap?" The answer is that Mum & Dad will follow if and when it proves to be the right thing to do for the WHOLE family, not just for one jittery daughter or grandcub out of the whole tribe! Australia is only a day away. It is not the far side of the Plant Zog. Cheers Gill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephsuej Posted October 3, 2009 Share Posted October 3, 2009 Hi Gollywobbler Yet again brilliant advice. Our daughter has Permanent Residency Visa, and we were both thinking of a 12 month visit 1st then applying for the CPV. We both get concerned on not seeing them all as we are a close family so the instant application of the CPV seemed the way to go. So many ideas so little time it always feels like -but your advice hits home Thank you! stephsuej Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lizg Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 Just to let you know that I got notification from CO on Tuesday to advance to next stage, however as some of you know I'm unlikely to proceed now. Had this came in a year ago I'd have been off! Best wishes to those still waiting. Once I pull out (very shortly) that should move some of you up the list, LizG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gollywobbler Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 Just to let you know that I got notification from CO on Tuesday to advance to next stage, however as some of you know I'm unlikely to proceed now. Had this came in a year ago I'd have been off! Best wishes to those still waiting. Once I pull out (very shortly) that should move some of you up the list, LizG Hi LizG Thanks for the update. How are you keeping? Whichever way you decide to jump on the CPV front, please keep in touch? Hugs Gill xx :hug: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lizg Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 Hi Gill All's well and of course I'll keep you updated. Have you got a thread on the long wait visa! Best Wishes, Liz x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest austibeach Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 Hi Liz, thanks for the information, although I'm sorry to hear that you might not be going ahead with the application. I fully understand what you say about the difference a year makes, as it is certainly putting some strain on us with the changes caused by the recession. We intend to see it through, but as things stand we may have to revise our strategy. Good luck whatever you do, Eric x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gollywobbler Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 Hi LizG Sure there are a couple of threads on the Parent subclass 103 visa! Poms in Oz provides everything! http://www.pomsinoz.com/forum/migration-issues/70128-parent-103-visa-s.html http://www.pomsinoz.com/forum/migration-issues/69948-accurate-timeline-parent-visas-please.html Increasing numbers of families are asking about the (offshore) Parent 103 visa and the (onshore) Aged Parent 804 visa. We have a thread for that too, on our sister site Poms in Adelaide: Cheap Parent Visas Part I - Poms In Adelaide You are too young for it though, my dear! There have been several cases where CPV applications have reached the stage of the PVC making contact to start the final processing but the Parents can't come up with the big money in these straightened times, with an appalling exchange rate as well. For the moment, many parents are safer if they apply for the Parent 103 visa in the first instance because they can upgrade to a CPV 143 application without having to complete any more forms and without paying a new 1st Instalment. Another intriguing idea cropped up last weekend, when one of the Parents from the British Expats CPV thread contacted me to ask whether it is possible to pay the 2nd Instalment in London, in sterling. Preliminary advice from a very experienced RMA is that it is certainly possible to pay in sterling in London and at the moment, DIAC are offering a better exchange rate than the market place is: Currency Converter According to the RMA, British CPV applicants are absolutely entitled to use DIAC's own currency converter, get a bank draft for whatever that says in sterling and to send the draft to Australia House, stating that they are relying on Section 5.36 of the Migration Regulations 1994. Seemingly there is a substantial saving to be made at the moment. I must say, whilst it seems to be a temporary "window of opportunity," DIAC will set a new exchange rate on 1st January 2010. They might start offering AUD $1.50 to the £1. It is worth Eric's while (and that of quite a few others) to keep an eye on this possibility though. Cheers Gill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frizzy1 Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 Hi Frizz The best bet - by a mile - is for them to get a 12 month subclass 676 visa before they leave the UK. Tourist Visa (Subclass 676) The best way to apply for it when a CPV application is in the system is to apply via the old-fashioned paper & post method, using Form 48. It only takes a fortnight or so to get the visas in September/October/November. There is no point in applying for the sc 676 visas until shortly before they are needed. Doing it the old fashioned way and sending the application to Australia House in London is that a human with a brain will deal with the whole thing instead of the brainless DIAC computer. They should send a covering letter with the sc 676 applications, enclosing a copy of the acknowledgement letter for their CPV application. They should explain that they understand that they will have to leave Oz for a while in order that the CPVs can be granted but they would be very grateful if they could be permitted to do most of the remainder of their waiting out in Oz. Tick the box for a 12 month stay. DIAC in London now have lots of experience of CPV applicants requesting long stay tourist visas and they tend to bend over backwards to help. They certainly treated my mother as an honourary Aussie when we did the same thing for her. I was most impressed by their kindness and concern for her. The trouble with using the e-visa system is that the visa processing clerks out in Oz - if they see the application with human eyes at all - are most unlikely to have a clue what a CPV is. The DIAC team in London is quite small and very experienced. Thus they are more helpful as well. Remember to tell Mum & Dad to use Special Delivery both ways to protect their passports. The payment mandate for applications via London is here: http://www.uk.embassy.gov.au/lhlh/files/0013%5fPayment%20Mandate%2epdf How old are Mum & Dad, please? There may be a couple of additional steps that they need to take concerning meds. Cheers Gill Gill, My parents submitted their application via post and today have received a call from Australia House advising that they do not issue 12 months 676 visas with multiple entry. I know this is incorrect as I have one myself! The lady they have been speaking to is adamant that the visa they are asking for is not available even though my parents pointed out that their website refers to this and that their daughter (me) has one. Where do we go with this now? They have been offered a 6 month visa which presumably could be extended if they apply in person whilst out in Sydney. I am a little annoyed as the whole point of applying for the 12 month visa was to avoid having to renew it and I know that she is wrong in the information she is providing my parents. I have tried to ring the lady from Australia House but it just keeps going through to answer machine. Am I correct to persue this or have they recently changed the rules? Any thoughts appreciated! Thanks. Frizz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gollywobbler Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 Gill, My parents submitted their application via post and today have received a call from Australia House advising that they do not issue 12 months 676 visas with multiple entry. I know this is incorrect as I have one myself! The lady they have been speaking to is adamant that the visa they are asking for is not available even though my parents pointed out that their website refers to this and that their daughter (me) has one. Where do we go with this now? They have been offered a 6 month visa which presumably could be extended if they apply in person whilst out in Sydney. I am a little annoyed as the whole point of applying for the 12 month visa was to avoid having to renew it and I know that she is wrong in the information she is providing my parents. I have tried to ring the lady from Australia House but it just keeps going through to answer machine. Am I correct to persue this or have they recently changed the rules? Any thoughts appreciated! Thanks. Frizz Hi Frizz There has been no change to the rules. I suspect that your parents have landed a Jobsworth who does not understand the flexibility that is normally offered when a CPV application is in. If I were your parents, I would ask to speak with the Principal Migration Officer in London. I would also moan to the Parents Visa Centre and lodge a formal complaint via DIAC's global feedback unit: http://www.immi.gov.au/contacts/forms/services/ It is just plain bloody minded to expect CPV applicants to keep forking out for unnecessary journeys by air. The Parents have to be outside Oz in order for the CPVs to be granted in any case. Who gains anything from unnecessary trips to places outside of Oz apart from the airlines? Why do your Parents want multiple entry, though? Wouldn't they prefer an unbroken 12 months in Australia instead? Cheers Gill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frizzy1 Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 Gill, Thanks. I am going to try and speak to the person they have been speaking to today to see what we can do. The reason they want multiple entry is that during the next 12 months, they will need to pop back to the uk a couple of times and also plan to visit Bali and Fiji. I will let you know how we get on! Thanks again. Frizz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frizzy1 Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 Hi, Unfortunatley we can seem to get hold of the person dealing with my parents visa at Australia House in London; when calling her, it just goes to answer machine and no-one is returning our calls. Does anyone have a number at London that we can call to get this escalated? The number on the Australia High Commission website does not work; "callers in the UK can ring our information service on 09065 508 900 for both recorded information and the option of speaking to a live operator between 9am and 4pm London time" Thanks Kirsti Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frizzy1 Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 O.k, well I managed to get through using my mobile and the chap I spoke to was even more unhelpful just stating that it was up to them if a visa was granted or not and that they couldnt help and we needed to speak to the case officer "Virginia". He refused to escalate it. He also stated that the 676 visa was not intended to allow parents "live" in australia whilst waiting for their CPV to come through and that it was only for tourists etc etc. I just dont know where else to go know other than to issue a formal complaint. Trouble is parents are planning to go in a few weeks time and time is running out. Looks like they will just have to accept the 6 month visa and try to extend it when in Sydney. If anyone has any other thoughts, please let me know! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandch Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 Hi All Haven't logged into check this site for a while - but I see it's been quite busy! Gill, just to let you and everyone know that guidance in forums does pay off and one applicant finally managed to make payment of the CPV 2nd VAC at the UK High Commission in London, using the standard exchange rate, thus saving a few thousand quid. But the idea had to come from the threads, the applicant was tenacious, and the High Commission made it difficult, whether by design or otherwise we'll never know. LizG, very sorry to hear you will be changing your plans, but you're not alone. The economy and exchange rate are really against us now, so many plans are being deferred. Australia isn't going anywhere however - it'll still be there next year and the one after. Best wishes to all. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gollywobbler Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 O.k, well I managed to get through using my mobile and the chap I spoke to was even more unhelpful just stating that it was up to them if a visa was granted or not and that they couldnt help and we needed to speak to the case officer "Virginia". He refused to escalate it. He also stated that the 676 visa was not intended to allow parents "live" in australia whilst waiting for their CPV to come through and that it was only for tourists etc etc. I just dont know where else to go know other than to issue a formal complaint. Trouble is parents are planning to go in a few weeks time and time is running out. Looks like they will just have to accept the 6 month visa and try to extend it when in Sydney. If anyone has any other thoughts, please let me know! Hi Frizzy It sounds like you got Jobsworth. There is always one in every office and they are so BLUDDY annoying. All he needs to do is to read the PAMs (Policy/Procedures Advice Manual - the Bible as far as DIAC staff are concerned.) The PAMs state clearly that where the Parent has a queued application for a Parent visa they should automatically be given a stay of up to a year in Australia on a 676 visa if they request it. They don't use the formal queueing system with CPVs because there is no need to. However once the database shows that the CPV application is in and that there are no obvious problems with it, our experience was that Australia House started treating Mum as if she were an honorary Aussie. They couldn't do enough for her, suddenly. It probably isn't worth the cost of another call to give Jobsworth an earful, though? I would complain about his sullen refusal to ask a more senior officer than himself for guidance and I would copy your complaint about Jobsworth to the Manager of the Parents Visa Centre for his information. I would make a formal complaint, though. Cheers Gill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gollywobbler Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 Hi All Haven't logged into check this site for a while - but I see it's been quite busy! Gill, just to let you and everyone know that guidance in forums does pay off and one applicant finally managed to make payment of the CPV 2nd VAC at the UK High Commission in London, using the standard exchange rate, thus saving a few thousand quid. But the idea had to come from the threads, the applicant was tenacious, and the High Commission made it difficult, whether by design or otherwise we'll never know. LizG, very sorry to hear you will be changing your plans, but you're not alone. The economy and exchange rate are really against us now, so many plans are being deferred. Australia isn't going anywhere however - it'll still be there next year and the one after. Best wishes to all. Steve Hi Steve Very well done to the couple who persisted with the AHC in London and forced them to accept that payment in London is lawful, however rare it might be in practice. Very well done to Tony Coates (Welshtone on here, Welsh Tony on BE) who knew the relevant law straightaway when he was asked and who proved to be 100% right. Very well done to you as well for understanding the question and pursuing it for the couple concerned. Incidentally, I have been wondering why the action at the PVC has not speeded up in accordance with the predictions made by Peter Vardos (head of Policy at DIAC) to the Senate Estimates Committee back in May 2009. According to Mr Vardos at that meeting, increasing the quota of CPVs to 7,500 during 2009/10 would bring the processing times down to about 9 months. I suspect that I learned the answer about why that hasn't happened today, by sheer coincidence. I quote Jamie Smith of Hire a Migrant in another thread on here today: Perth business skills office for business visas has had a 50% reduction in manpower as people move out to refugee processing and other places sensitive to the Government. Business investment via 163 etc is usually $250,000 and 2.5 new jobs created, yet Perth is now s l o w to process these economy-growing visas taking nearly a year. I suspect that some of the PVC staff have been seconded to serve at the detention centre on Christmas Island, about 400nm WNW of Perth, roughly. According to Jamie Perth Business Centre staff have probably been roped in for Christmas Island as well. That is where they take the "Boat people" trying to head for Oz from the Middle and the Far East, I gather. In mid-2006 when Mum's visa was in the final stages of processing, the fighting in the Lebanon became really bad. Australia sent several airliners to Cyprus to collect Australian Citizens and PRs and the RAAN deployed ships and boats to get the evacuees to Cyprus. There were a lot of emergency flights for about a week to a fortnight. Several of them were bound for Sydney and Melbourne but it was decided to land at Perth first and do the Immi clearancing there because a lot of the evacuees had no oassports, credit cards or anything else to prove who they were and that they had a right to live in Australia instead. The Aussie Govt decided to take them all to Australia and sort it all out there rather than risk trying to do anything in the Middle East. The entire staff of the PVC except for the Deputy Manager were sent to Perth Airport to meet all these flights and to start helping he passengers. CPV applicants and their children were asked to bear with the PVC staff and be patient - which everyone was happy to do once we were told where all the COs were. Hence I suspect Christmas Island in the current slowdown at the PVC? Cheers Gill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frizzy1 Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 Hi, Yes, will definately be lodging a complaint - he was so rude! Hopefully the person who was actually processing the application may call either me or my parents back over the next few days but I dont hold out much hope at the moment! So frustrating, especially when you know you are right! Thanks again for the friendly ear! Frizz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandch Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 Yes, Gill, thank you for reminding me that I should of course have mentioned Tony high up in my list who provided the source and thus the ammunition for the applicants to quote at the staff in London (who still tried to deny it all). Thanks that man! Cheers Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Avalook Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 I believe Perth did not help either by answering emails questions about London payments by telling people the payment could only be made in Perth in Aus$. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandch Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 I believe Perth did not help either by answering emails questions about London payments by telling people the payment could only be made in Perth in Aus$. Quite right Les - a lot of misinformation and ignorance bouncing around. After next month this facet of the process will probably be consigned to the archives! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Collett Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 I believe Perth did not help either by answering emails questions about London payments by telling people the payment could only be made in Perth in Aus$. The case officers in Perth with whom I have spoken have been very helpful actually, as has an officer in London who took payment from a CP visa client a few days ago and has emailed a screen print confirming the GBP payment of the 2nd VAC directly to the case officer in Perth. Best regards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Collett Posted November 6, 2009 Share Posted November 6, 2009 Further to my above post, following the payment in London last week the CP visas have been granted in Perth this afternoon. Best regards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Avalook Posted November 6, 2009 Share Posted November 6, 2009 Quite right Les - a lot of misinformation and ignorance bouncing around. After next month this facet of the process will probably be consigned to the archives! If you mean the Oz will set a very low fixed rate in January 2010 then you could be right. This, at the moment, may be a very short window open for a few. I would take the view if the rate is close to par for the floating rate and the official rate I would rather take the fixed sterling route and pay in the UK when the time comes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Avalook Posted November 6, 2009 Share Posted November 6, 2009 I believe Perth did not help either by answering emails questions about London payments by telling people the payment could only be made in Perth in Aus$. The case officers in Perth with whom I have spoken have been very helpful actually, as has an officer in London who took payment from a CP visa client a few days ago and has emailed a screen print confirming the GBP payment of the 2nd VAC directly to the case officer in Perth. Best regards. Crikey Alan you seem to be following me all around the internet countering every post I make:policeman:. I could start to take it personal.:laugh: I am of course happy that your client's payment went smoothly and without a hitch. However as you can see from the previous posts not everyone has had the same experience although they got there in the end. Maybe with your links with London and Perth you could suggest the clued up members of staff give some training to the other staff that people on this thread and BritExPat keep coming across. It would be nice if all departments were singing from the same hymn sheet. This whole process is stressful enough without the added complications. Kind regards, Les Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Collett Posted November 6, 2009 Share Posted November 6, 2009 It's nothing personal Les! In an ideal world all DIAC offices would liaise with each other. The reality is that they don't. And in such circumstances an agent who goes into bat for his or her clients can more than save the fees s/he has charged. Some will say it shouldn't be that way, and it probably shouldn't. The rest of us live in the real world. :yes: Onwards! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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