Paul1Perth Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Exactly - no-one would notice as the number of people arriving was always negligible. They had no discernible effect on anyone's life so this Australian obsession with 'stopping the boats' is a complete mystery other than the habitual xenophobia... Don't agree that no-one would notice. We used to get reports daily on the news on how many boats had turned up wherever. Usually Christmas Island, with pictures of refugees as close as the cameras were allowed. It's been pretty obvious since this government has been in that the reports have virtually disappeared and the boats do seem to have stopped. I'm not a great lover of this government and Tony Abbott but what a change to actually make a promise or commitment and stick by it. Must be a first for a politician.:yes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul1Perth Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Didnt they just stop reporting on the Boats coming in? makes me laugh, there are 20 times the amount coming in but then not going home on planes. I think if the effort to come in via a dodgy boat then they earned it. I've never understood the argument of the number coming in by plane. To do that you would need a passport and papers to get on a plane wherever you get on it. You would be checked for same papers and passport on the way in. If everything is in place and correct I don't have a problem with those people. They are as welcome as anyone else. The ones that turn up without papers wouldn't get very far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ptp113 Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Don't agree that no-one would notice. We used to get reports daily on the news on how many boats had turned up wherever. Usually Christmas Island, with pictures of refugees as close as the cameras were allowed. It's been pretty obvious since this government has been in that the reports have virtually disappeared and the boats do seem to have stopped. I'm not a great lover of this government and Tony Abbott but what a change to actually make a promise or commitment and stick by it. Must be a first for a politician.:yes: The reports disappeared because it's banned. Common knowledge here what's going on but the rest of Oz is now in the dark. TA and co wanted it that way and Murdoch etc agreed. TA does what Murdoch and Rome dictate and nothing more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenon4017 Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 I've never understood the argument of the number coming in by plane. To do that you would need a passport and papers to get on a plane wherever you get on it. You would be checked for same papers and passport on the way in. If everything is in place and correct I don't have a problem with those people. They are as welcome as anyone else. The ones that turn up without papers wouldn't get very far. To get on the plane you do need papers, true. But quite often alighting passengers just destroy their documents, wander round the concourse for a few hours then present themselves as stateless asylum seekers. Obviously they refuse to yield any useful information, so what can you do? It's as good as arriving on the beach. Bigger airports like Heathrow have tremendous trouble in tracking who came from where. What amazes me is that people embark on a journey where their only hope of survival rests on a third party account of "that country is a soft touch". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul1Perth Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 To get on the plane you do need papers, true. But quite often alighting passengers just destroy their documents, wander round the concourse for a few hours then present themselves as stateless asylum seekers. Obviously they refuse to yield any useful information, so what can you do? It's as good as arriving on the beach. Bigger airports like Heathrow have tremendous trouble in tracking who came from where. What amazes me is that people embark on a journey where their only hope of survival rests on a third party account of "that country is a soft touch". But don't they end up in exactly the same place as the other asylum seekers? Why would someone destroy papers that would get them in a country if they weren't somehow worried that it would put them in a bad light? To me we wouldn't be wanting those type of people in Aus. anyway and they need to be locked away somewhere till background checks can be made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daveakaginge Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Exactly - no-one would notice as the number of people arriving was always negligible. They had no discernible effect on anyone's life so this Australian obsession with 'stopping the boats' is a complete mystery other than the habitual xenophobia... We said that back in the UK, several years ago, now look!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MACDONALDO67 Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Think I'll try the boat thing. I can't seem to get in legitimately. :biglaugh: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenon4017 Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 But don't they end up in exactly the same place as the other asylum seekers? Why would someone destroy papers that would get them in a country if they weren't somehow worried that it would put them in a bad light? To me we wouldn't be wanting those type of people in Aus. anyway and they need to be locked away somewhere till background checks can be made. Yes they do, but they've had a more comfortable trip over. They destroy their papers so that there's nothing to contradict their basis for seeking asylum, or their claim about who they are or where they came from. Most of the places that produce refugees are in turmoil, so they haven't got anyone to man the phones in case immigration call to check up. So they end up in a kind of limbo. It's difficult to determine the veracity of their story so you either believe them and process them accordingly, or keep them locked up pending a decision/more info. But clearly the capacity for the latter is finite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul1Perth Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 The reports disappeared because it's banned. Common knowledge here what's going on but the rest of Oz is now in the dark. TA and co wanted it that way and Murdoch etc agreed. TA does what Murdoch and Rome dictate and nothing more. I think you are wrong. I've heard people from Christmas Island, including the governor being interviewed and they've backed up that arrivals have stopped. Also heard stories from ABC journalists who have tracked down would be asylum seekers who had paid out for boats and got their money back off the people smugglers, much to my surprise. Didn't think the people smugglers would be giving refunds. The ABC are pretty independent of the government and seem to be doing their level best in finding any story that might make the government out to be telling lies about arrivals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul1Perth Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Think I'll try the boat thing. I can't seem to get in legitimately. :biglaugh: Sorry mate, wrong colour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul1Perth Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Yes they do, but they've had a more comfortable trip over. They destroy their papers so that there's nothing to contradict their basis for seeking asylum, or their claim about who they are or where they came from. Most of the places that produce refugees are in turmoil, so they haven't got anyone to man the phones in case immigration call to check up. So they end up in a kind of limbo. It's difficult to determine the veracity of their story so you either believe them and process them accordingly, or keep them locked up pending a decision/more info. But clearly the capacity for the latter is finite. If I was working on processing I would be more suspicious of these than people arriving by boat, They would be on the next plane back from wherever they came from if it was left to me. Same as would happen to people from other countries if they rocked up with no papers. Can't see that they would be able to just disappear for a few hours with all the security around. Maybe though, I see you mentioned Heathrow and I'm sure the bigger the airport the harder it is to keep track of people. It would still be tricky (or should be) to disappear for any length of time before passport control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenon4017 Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 They would be on the next plane back from wherever they came from if it was left to me. And where exactly did they come from? Their boarding pass is the first document down the toilet. They might look "brown" but that's hardly a definitive guide to exactly which country they originated. Even if you can use CCTV footage at the landing gate, it doesn't follow that arriving from country X means born in country X or that country X will take them back. When I was in Switzerland there was a case of a Nigerian who had committed a violent murder. He was imprisoned, and the Swiss wanted to send him back after he'd completed a certain period inside. (So they knew who he was and where he came from). But, the Nigerians said they didn't want him, understandably enough. They refused to give permission to land for the plane carrying him. What can you do? There no law that says you have to take back your own citizens, especially violent criminals. In the end the Swiss paid Nigeria the costs of locking the guy up there. Dealing with the "international unwanted" is like a huge game of 'pass the donkey'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul1Perth Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 And where exactly did they come from? Their boarding pass is the first document down the toilet. They might look "brown" but that's hardly a definitive guide to exactly which country they originated. Even if you can use CCTV footage at the landing gate, it doesn't follow that arriving from country X means born in country X or that country X will take them back. When I was in Switzerland there was a case of a Nigerian who had committed a violent murder. He was imprisoned, and the Swiss wanted to send him back after he'd completed a certain period inside. (So they knew who he was and where he came from). But, the Nigerians said they didn't want him, understandably enough. They refused to give permission to land for the plane carrying him. What can you do? There no law that says you have to take back your own citizens, especially violent criminals. In the end the Swiss paid Nigeria the costs of locking the guy up there. Dealing with the "international unwanted" is like a huge game of 'pass the donkey'. Judging by the attack on the Asian guy in a park over Christmas and then the sexual assault of a 14 year old a couple of weeks back by another group we might have a few Africans to return soon too. If they ever catch them that is. It should be easy enough to tighten up security and monitoring between plane and passport control CCTV is one way for sure. If all else fails then Manus Island wouldn't be a favoured destination amongst refugee seekers I wouldn't imagine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Les Patterson Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 The ABC are pretty independent of the government and seem to be doing their level best in finding any story that might make the government out to be telling lies about arrivals. Oh yes that hotbed of pinko, radical, fifth columnists........stone them I say, we must have no distention,nastiness towards Rupert or negative reporting of Captain Catholic's asylum seeker policies or his Obergruppenfuhrer Morrison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diane Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 I'm quite curious as to where you're getting your data here. You've gone form having no interest to seemingly being well-informed. I'm a person of average intelligence who realised that the vast majority of everyday news sources in Australia are owned by one man (remember I live in Adelaide and our ONLY daily paper is the Advertiser, owned by Murdoch) so I actively sought out alternative news sources to get a balance. I know in Britain the papers are just as biased, one political way or another, but at least there is a choice of bias, so in the end it balances a little more. I also am the mother of two teens who are at the age where they take an interest in the wider world, question things a bit more - talking with them and their friends made me realise that, despite what you'd think from reading the Aussie papers, stopping hugely disadvantages people from having the chance to live their lives in a better place isn't the number one concern for most people here. There are a lot of people (although you'd never realise it from the papers) who would like the Barrier Reef to still be there for their grandchildren, not destroyed in the interests of a quick buck; who strongly feel that people should have equal rights and options regardless of their sexuality, gender or race; who don't think it's right that the gap between those that have and those that have not should get wider; who don't think an Australian leader should be sucking up to regimes who torture and abuse human rights... Are you really happy only being told what the Abbott government thinks you need to know, and then hearing on an overseas news service that you haven't been told the truth? And then hearing that they are trying to gag one of the few independent news services we have left? I don't say any other government is any better than they are - unfortunately the saying about power corrupting is very true in many cases - but I'm pretty shocked by how much damage this government has done, or started to do already, in the short time they have had their power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Didnt they just stop reporting on the Boats coming in? makes me laugh, there are 20 times the amount coming in but then not going home on planes. I think if the effort to come in via a dodgy boat then they earned it. They still come by plane but that of course is not in the public domain. Too many are fed what to think by the manipulated news chain and sections of the biased press. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Think I'll try the boat thing. I can't seem to get in legitimately. :biglaugh: Warrington/Liverpool that bad is it? You'll need to explain your case legitimately just why that is so. OZ is not an entitlement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Les Patterson Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 They still come by plane but that of course is not in the public domain. Too many are fed what to think by the manipulated news chain and sections of the biased press. Oh god....I've just had to give Hanrahan a "like".......I must be slipping or going soft in the head or pissed :wink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Don't agree that no-one would notice. We used to get reports daily on the news on how many boats had turned up wherever. Usually Christmas Island, with pictures of refugees as close as the cameras were allowed. It's been pretty obvious since this government has been in that the reports have virtually disappeared and the boats do seem to have stopped. I'm not a great lover of this government and Tony Abbott but what a change to actually make a promise or commitment and stick by it. Must be a first for a politician.:yes: As already stated, don't know how many times, accountability is at an all time low with this government. Now a secret, military operation, much to the dismay of the naval establishment, no doubt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Oh god....I've just had to give Hanrahan a "like".......I must be slipping or going soft in the head or pissed :wink: A definite sickening which may be the beginning of something rather serious. Another and I'd say possibly fatal? As usual though always here to help out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Les Patterson Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 As already stated, don't know how many times, accountability is at an all time low with this government. Now a secret, military operation, much to the dismay of the naval establishment, no doubt. I have a mate of Flag rank in the RAN and he said "the troops" are not happy with what they have been ordered to do......neither is the Navy hierarchy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 The leaking of some 10,000 names of asylum seekers, sounds to me an inside job to rightly subvert, (IMO) the present illogical not to say probable illegal policy of depriving humanity to those incarcerated. As such their privacy has been compromised and they should be released without further ado. Manus Island and Nauru closed and a proper policy with Indonesia worked out on the matter. The entire matter has been handled very shoddily by the present government. One can only imagine the hash they will make in their dealings with health. Not to mention everything else they touch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenon4017 Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 ...the vast majority of everyday news sources in Australia are owned by one man (remember I live in Adelaide and our ONLY daily paper is the Advertiser, owned by Murdoch) so I actively sought out alternative news sources to get a balance. I know in Britain the papers are just as biased, one political way or another, but at least there is a choice of bias, so in the end it balances a little more. ... ... I don't say any other government is any better than they are - unfortunately the saying about power corrupting is very true in many cases - but I'm pretty shocked by how much damage this government has done, or started to do already, in the short time they have had their power. Well a choice of bias isn't really a substitute for independent facts. But back to the plot; what, specifically, has TA done that has roused your ire? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 I have a mate of Flag rank in the RAN and he said "the troops" are not happy with what they have been ordered to do......neither is the Navy hierarchy. I too am aware of that. The Armed Forces are for the defence of the nation or the helping out in disaster relief. Not to act in political matters and used a political football by government. The Howard government done the same thing with the children overboard affair. It came out later that The Senior Service was ropable. They were put into a position were they were forced to go with a lie, started by government. I expect some anger with the government over the intrusion into Indonesian waters as well. (govt has said something along the lines of disciplining those in charge) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenon4017 Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Judging by the attack on the Asian guy in a park over Christmas and then the sexual assault of a 14 year old a couple of weeks back by another group we might have a few Africans to return soon too. Well, leaving aside for a moment the racist slant on your observation, you do realize that Africa is a continent, not a country. You can't just "send them back to Africa", you have to determine to which political entity they belong. It's like the US saying "send them back to Europe", then dropping off a plane load of Russian mafia at Luton airport. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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