Rupert Posted November 29, 2013 Share Posted November 29, 2013 The 457 visa was introduced in 1996 by John Howard. Well that is fascinating but I have no idea what relevance that has to my comment. Because my comments are clearly about the current Liberal Government as the first post refers to an article criticising the current government for apparently loosening 457 requirements. And my point is simply that they, the current government, have not done this. That is all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scuffythetugboat Posted November 29, 2013 Share Posted November 29, 2013 Well that is fascinating but I have no idea what relevance that has to my comment. Because my comments are clearly about the current Liberal Government as the first post refers to an article criticising the current government for apparently loosening 457 requirements. And my point is simply that they, the current government, have not done this. That is all. Not the way I read it. You clearly state the the Liberal party did not introduce the 457 visa when it did back in John Howards reign. The current Liberal government has a member that was the Minister for Employment under Howard and he was Tony Abbott. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinmaclec Posted November 29, 2013 Share Posted November 29, 2013 I have heard of a scam originating in a country next to the UK that allows people to set up an abn and sponsor themselves! There are migration agents who do this for them, so is this right too? And if this happens with people from that country then i can only imagine how many dishwashers are sponsored as chefs from Asian countries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fensaddler Posted November 29, 2013 Share Posted November 29, 2013 I have heard of a scam originating in a country next to the UK that allows people to set up an abn and sponsor themselves! There are migration agents who do this for them, so is this right too? And if this happens with people from that country then i can only imagine how many dishwashers are sponsored as chefs from Asian countries. This is fraud and abuse of the system. Those involved should be prosecuted and DIBP should be taking enforcement action, if they are not already. I doubt any government of whatever stripe is going to sanction or turn a blind eye to this sort of abuse of the law. Neither does it do any favours to everyone who migrates legitimately, by whatever route. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinmaclec Posted November 30, 2013 Share Posted November 30, 2013 People don't migrate on 457's they have temporary work permits. You hear a lot of stories of them on these forums of people selling up everything and coming to OZ to emigrate only to be made redundant and go home without a penny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joebloggs Posted November 30, 2013 Share Posted November 30, 2013 People don't migrate on 457's they have temporary work permits. You hear a lot of stories of them on these forums of people selling up everything and coming to OZ to emigrate only to be made redundant and go home without a penny. Careful now, you might upset some of these 'Migrants'. After all according to some they are far superior than those of us who are PR and citizens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted November 30, 2013 Share Posted November 30, 2013 Well that is fascinating but I have no idea what relevance that has to my comment. Because my comments are clearly about the current Liberal Government as the first post refers to an article criticising the current government for apparently loosening 457 requirements. And my point is simply that they, the current government, have not done this. That is all. But they have/or will loosen up compliance to 457. Only an add on social Media will fulfil requirements.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted November 30, 2013 Share Posted November 30, 2013 We have more in common than you think right now FoC. You're not the only person here thinking about the big picture, and just because people disagree with you doesn't mean they are acting any more our of personal self-interest than you are. I share your dislike of much that this government is intent on doing, though I don't make the 'a priori' assumption that everything they do will be wrong. I'm not sure whether you do either, to be fair. And I think I'm on your side of politics, by and large. In my world, not all companies are bad, and many understand the need to look after their staff. Maybe I'm lucky in my experience, or even naive, if you want, but not everybody with manager on their business card is an evil grasping bastard. Just some of them. My big concern is one I know you share, and is at the heart of my worries on the way that 457s are being bagged. I know you have genuine concerns about the labour market impact of some 457 migration, and whilst I think you overstate that, and understate the potential advantages, I sense your concern is genuine. However, my concern about this is that for many in the community, bagging 457s is a coded form of racism, and is thus a very dangerous game to join in with. Like you I fear the rise of the One Nation right in Australia, and I worry that some 457 is going to be on the wrong end of a beating, or worse. I've seen the looks on people's faces when I tell them I'm on a 457 - it says 'you're not the picture I had in my head', because the picture they had in their head is some form of malevolent bogeyman. If such bogeymen exist, it's my experience that most 457s don't fit the stereotype. Have a good weekend. Well as you may have read in my posts, a major concern of mine besides the non compliance checks on business rorting the system, in heavily engaging off shore staff while neglecting those here, is the rise of racism. There are numerous community concerns at the moment which are simply not being addressed. Business is ever increasing casual employment and short term contracts onshore while ever looking off shore for 457s. The market will of course become saturated creating a pull of lowering wages and conditions for all. Not only that but the allowing of foreign investors free reign on the new build housing market and rules easy enough to get round in the established market is preventing many here getting a foot on the ladder. Certain rulings have been lifted in both areas of work and housing that are not at all favourable to the folk living here. Two things of great importance which would be very easy for exploitation in the political sense. Few countries be it in Asia or Europe would allow such things happen let alone to go out and actively allow business in both sectors to actively recruit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted November 30, 2013 Share Posted November 30, 2013 Australians by nature are lazy, that is even driving 50 foot to the local shop!. If I owned a large Oil company i would go the extra expense and mile to get expats. The jobs would get done better and cheaper due to better skilled and harder workers who aren't hung up on trade union ways of doing things. I do find it unfair as I know others on more than me doing the same job, they get flown home for 2 or 3 weeks off every 10 weeks also when i get nothing. The other side for them is that they have to go after 4 years................ the market is drying up as the economy shrinks, as more 457's go home it leaves less people here. That make it easier and cheaper to rent, better availability and less competition of goods and you never know service may even improve :-) Of course we could be like The Gulf States and employ only foreign labour to do all the work. I'm sure your Nepalese, being worked to death in Qatar, building the Football stadiums would jump at coming to OZ and work for $1000 a month and your Thai's would far prefer to work on farms here than Moshav's in Israel and the list goes on. Where exactly does that leave your inhabitant already here? Funny in England Aussies are thought to be hard workers, non complaining at least. Wonder why they are such a different breed at home? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack13 Posted December 1, 2013 Share Posted December 1, 2013 You rather miss the point. Why should you get a job over a local doing the same task? Prejudice regarding immigration? Of course there is. Immigration outside of refugees is required to suit the demands of the country not vice versa. Treated equally? Are you suggesting a worker in Manchester should have the same entitlement as a local or a backpacker over here on a WHV should be able to compete on equal footing as a local? Laughable to say the least. I think anyone from the UK should be top of the chain when it comes to immigration purely because we (our country) made Australia what it is today. I also think yes, yes they should. But remember your speaking to someone who thinks all UK citerzens should have the right to live and work in Australia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted December 1, 2013 Share Posted December 1, 2013 I think anyone from the UK should be top of the chain when it comes to immigration purely because we (our country) made Australia what it is today. I also think yes, yes they should. But remember your speaking to someone who thinks all UK citerzens should have the right to live and work in Australia. Ignore him - he is only looking for a reaction! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack13 Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 No, just airing my opinion as I have as much right to as the next person. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenon4017 Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 Funny in England Aussies are thought to be hard workers, non complaining at least. Wonder why they are such a different breed at home? Ah, the sound of a nail being hit squarely on the head. Could it be, that Aussies moving abroad are a bit more willing to exert themselves to make their new home a success? Might that rationale be extrapolated to say that most immigrants tend to have a bit more motivation to "get on" than those who have discovered ways to milk their own domestic system? There's the real rort. People who've come to the conclusion that working hard is....well, too much hard work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest16631 Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 I think anyone from the UK should be top of the chain when it comes to immigration purely because we (our country) made Australia what it is today. I also think yes, yes they should. But remember your speaking to someone who thinks all UK citerzens should have the right to live and work in Australia. ......now would that include all those who migrated to the uk ,who now want to move on.....? .......or do they have to be second generation migrants....? .......of any race ........as way back when Britain had any sway on Australia's growth...... .......many cultures didn't exist in the uk...... .......think it's best if immigration is controlled by merit....a use to the host country... ........those coming bring a skill...... ........and of course the refugees......as they need a haven..... ......really don't think you can just choose a country tbh..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack13 Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 ......now would that include all those who migrated to the uk ,who now want to move on.....?.......or do they have to be second generation migrants....? .......of any race ........as way back when Britain had any sway on Australia's growth...... .......many cultures didn't exist in the uk...... .......think it's best if immigration is controlled by merit....a use to the host country... ........those coming bring a skill...... ........and of course the refugees......as they need a haven..... ......really don't think you can just choose a country tbh..... Well its not based on Merit now because people get in on defacto visas and by who they marry and stuff. Whole familys get in because of one member being eligible. I think anyone who is like myself 100% English born and bred, whole family should get in. In my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenon4017 Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 I think anyone who is like myself 100% English born and bred, whole family should get in. In my opinion. Absolutely. Just post your name and DOB and we can run one of those online genealogy searches. Just to make sure you haven't got any "contamination" in there. I'd hate to see your plans derailed because your great grandmother was born in Cowdenbeath. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 Absolutely. Just post your name and DOB and we can run one of those online genealogy searches. Just to make sure you haven't got any "contamination" in there. I'd hate to see your plans derailed because your great grandmother was born in Cowdenbeath. The she would definately have came over on one of the convict ships! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack13 Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 well its no more unfair and unreasonable than the current rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NANNY NELLY Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 Hi My husband is a 1st class machinist / toolmaker we are here on a 457, he was laid off by a company he was contracted to in September and the Sponsor has yet to find him more work, I feel there is a definite no no attitude to 457 workers here in Perth at present. Our 90 days are nearly up and we are dreading having to go back to the UK and leave our Daughters and Grandchildren. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul1Perth Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 (edited) People don't migrate on 457's they have temporary work permits. You hear a lot of stories of them on these forums of people selling up everything and coming to OZ to emigrate only to be made redundant and go home without a penny. There are a few posts, might even be on this thread, can't be bothered to read back, where people have successfully got PR but came in on 457's. Personally not got a problem with people who manage to get in this way, fair play to them. In fact I don't know anyone who would object to it. The people I hang around with aren't bothered whether otheres are here on 457's, PR's or any other visa. It's how you behave once you're here that counts. Really if people sell up everything to come on a 457 then more fool them. They should know that the visa is not meant for PR. Edited December 2, 2013 by Paul1Perth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul1Perth Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 Well as you may have read in my posts, a major concern of mine besides the non compliance checks on business rorting the system, in heavily engaging off shore staff while neglecting those here, is the rise of racism. There are numerous community concerns at the moment which are simply not being addressed. Business is ever increasing casual employment and short term contracts onshore while ever looking off shore for 457s. The market will of course become saturated creating a pull of lowering wages and conditions for all. Not only that but the allowing of foreign investors free reign on the new build housing market and rules easy enough to get round in the established market is preventing many here getting a foot on the ladder. Certain rulings have been lifted in both areas of work and housing that are not at all favourable to the folk living here. Two things of great importance which would be very easy for exploitation in the political sense. Few countries be it in Asia or Europe would allow such things happen let alone to go out and actively allow business in both sectors to actively recruit. I'll agree with you about Asian countries but Europe seems to be a free for all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul1Perth Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 Of course we could be like The Gulf States and employ only foreign labour to do all the work. I'm sure your Nepalese, being worked to death in Qatar, building the Football stadiums would jump at coming to OZ and work for $1000 a month and your Thai's would far prefer to work on farms here than Moshav's in Israel and the list goes on. Where exactly does that leave your inhabitant already here? Funny in England Aussies are thought to be hard workers, non complaining at least. Wonder why they are such a different breed at home? They aren't mate. That's just Dusty's bigoted view as he obviously thinks he's better than your average Aussie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul1Perth Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 I think anyone from the UK should be top of the chain when it comes to immigration purely because we (our country) made Australia what it is today. I also think yes, yes they should. But remember your speaking to someone who thinks all UK citerzens should have the right to live and work in Australia. We'd be overrun next week by that policy. As for your assumption that the UK made Australia what it is today, is way off the mark. Aus has taken a good look at where the UK has gone wrong on a number of fronts and had the luxury of being able to adopt some good things and throw some bad things out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NANNY NELLY Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 (edited) We didn't have anything to sell up, we were expecting to stay the 4 years on the 457. have been saving for the CPV @ 42.000$ each. Edited December 2, 2013 by NANNY NELLY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daveakaginge Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 Really if people sell up everything to come on a 457 then more fool them. They should know that the visa is not meant for PR. Very opionionated statement, how do you know that 457'ers, don't know the full facts of what a 457 visa entails. We are here on a 457, and we are fully aware of the entitlement, we have also been 'fools', and sold up, to live our dream. We may be here 4 years, or 8 years, or longer, and if we could get pr, would do so in a heartbeat. Do not be so quick to judge my friend, without being in full knowledge of each individuals circumstances,I resent being called a fool,further, many go on to get pr and full citizenship, alas our ages preclude us from treading the same path. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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