Australians say no to 457

[Guest The Pom Queen]

Saw this advertisement today, I didn't know about the new changes.

 

Are you a young person looking for work? Or perhaps you know someone - a son, daughter, student - who is? If so, you won't believe the latest from the Abbott Government when it comes to bringing in temporary foreign workers on 457s.

 

Under the Abbott Government's 457 Visa ‘Labour Market Testing’ (LMT) system:

 

• Employers only have to advertise jobs for around 30% of all 457 visa nominations.

 

• Employers have no obligation to prove they made good faith efforts to employ Australians first or keep records of any job interviews.

 

• And - shockingly - the few job ads that have to be placed can now be put on Facebook for only a few minutes, then taken down. There is no minimum advertising time.

 

Comrades at Cfmeu - Construction & General are slamming the announcement allowing employers to legally avoid their responsibility to employ Australians first and ‘Facebook’ their way to 457 visas for temporary foreign workers.

[akiralx]

Not surprising - Abbott just wants to fulfil his promise to Aus big business to continue to provide an unending source of cheap overseas labour.

[jack13]

And- so what? These people on 457's have spent years and lots of time and money gaining qualifications and experience for the right to stay in Australia and do there job. I bet a lot of these people who are complaining about the 457's are more than happy to sign on Centrelink.

[Rupert]

Saw this advertisement today, I didn't know about the new changes.

 

Are you a young person looking for work? Or perhaps you know someone - a son, daughter, student - who is? If so, you won't believe the latest from the Abbott Government when it comes to bringing in temporary foreign workers on 457s.

 

Under the Abbott Government's 457 Visa ‘Labour Market Testing’ (LMT) system:

 

• Employers only have to advertise jobs for around 30% of all 457 visa nominations.

 

• Employers have no obligation to prove they made good faith efforts to employ Australians first or keep records of any job interviews.

 

• And - shockingly - the few job ads that have to be placed can now be put on Facebook for only a few minutes, then taken down. There is no minimum advertising time.

 

Comrades at Cfmeu - Construction & General are slamming the announcement allowing employers to legally avoid their responsibility to employ Australians first and ‘Facebook’ their way to 457 visas for temporary foreign workers.

 

There has previously been no market testing for 457 visa holders.

 

So this a step in the right direction for those people worried about jobs going to non citizens and permanent residents.

 

For this group to pitch the argument like this, is really rather pathetic government bashing for the sake of it.

Edited November 22, 2013 by Rupert
clarifying!

[AJ]

 

And- so what? These people on 457's have spent years and lots of time and money gaining qualifications and experience for the right to stay in Australia and do there job. I bet a lot of these people who are complaining about the 457's are more than happy to sign on Centrelink.

They dont bother with centrelink, they just marry imaginary girlfriends and live happy ever after, sound familiar?

[Petals]

Yep seen it and it is not going to be something Aussies are happy about now especially as jobs seem to be disappearing weekly, BP just put off a whole lot, Banks sending more jobs overseas. There are many graduates and aussies with degrees and experience who are also looking for work. However the employers prefer the 457 because they can do what they like with people on these visas its not so easy to shaft a resident employee. Think on as we have said before some people have great result taking this quick route, others regret it, and lose their money.

[Paul1Perth]

And- so what? These people on 457's have spent years and lots of time and money gaining qualifications and experience for the right to stay in Australia and do there job. I bet a lot of these people who are complaining about the 457's are more than happy to sign on Centrelink.

 

The 457 visa is a temporary working visa, never meant for people to be getting in on those really. Fair play to the ones that manage it though. Problem with this and every other Liberal/Conservative government is they will do everything to look after their mates in big business. Making sure that they can keep profits high, shareholders happy, make the rich richer and keep the working class in their place. That's how I reckon they see it anyway. Been going against the grain for the last few years here in Aus where the working man and guys who are actually doing a bit of the hard graft have been getting a decent wage.

All the time the mining companies and Liberal Government have been waging their arguments about salaries for working class people being too high and the usual crap about "not being sustainable" and threatening to move offshore or do their mining in Africa or Russia. Gina Reinhardt is a typical example, quoting the miners salaries in Africa being $5 a day or something and almost suggesting that she should be given the opportunity to bring in a few on 457's and pay them the same sort of rate.

 

She's not one bit bothered about the run of the mill Aussie employee who has been working for her company probably most of their life. She would get rid of them tomorrow if she could get someone cheaper. I don't think for one minute Andrew Forest and the rest of the GM's are any different either. They are all out for themselves. Worst one of the lot is Clive Palmer, talk about just being in it for yourself. That guy would cut a deal with the devil if he thought it would make him an extra dollar.

 

Doesn't matter that executive salaries have gone through the roof in the same time, difference is they are on several million a year where the truckie they love to complain about is on $100,000. Somehow though the problem is always cost of labour, not overblown executive salaries and excessive profits.

 

The changes mean that the 457 visa is open to more abuse by employers to bring in cheap labour. Not going to help anyone trying to get into Aus on a permanent basis.

[boganbear]

Not surprising - Abbott just wants to fulfil his promise to Aus big business to continue to provide an unending source of cheap overseas labour.

 

I would love to know where all this cheap overseas labour is coming from. everyone I know on a 457 earns far more than I do. Most 457s are not flipping burgers in Maccas but are highly skilled and qualified.

[Rupert]

The 457 visa is a temporary working visa, never meant for people to be getting in on those really. Fair play to the ones that manage it though. Problem with this and every other Liberal/Conservative government is they will do everything to look after their mates in big business. Making sure that they can keep profits high, shareholders happy, make the rich richer and keep the working class in their place. That's how I reckon they see it anyway. Been going against the grain for the last few years here in Aus where the working man and guys who are actually doing a bit of the hard graft have been getting a decent wage.

All the time the mining companies and Liberal Government have been waging their arguments about salaries for working class people being too high and the usual crap about "not being sustainable" and threatening to move offshore or do their mining in Africa or Russia. Gina Reinhardt is a typical example, quoting the miners salaries in Africa being $5 a day or something and almost suggesting that she should be given the opportunity to bring in a few on 457's and pay them the same sort of rate.

.

 

Well I agree with your first sentence, it was never intended for this purpose.

 

But are you aware that the Liberal government have been in power for only a couple of months now and they did not introduce the 457 visa? No it was always there, well when I say always I can only comment on the last 12 years when I have been aware of it anyway.

 

The good news for those concerned about jobs for Australians are that is me new restrictions are finally coming in with some market testing being introduced in November 2013. Certainly it was the idea of the previous government, but only in their dying days and most saw it as a cynical attempt to capture some last minute headlines and votes, they didn't care that much about labour testing during the previous 6 years after all eh? Not even during the GFC.

 

Must admit I am same as the poster below, people I know on 457 visas are highly skilled and they are not paid any differently to any other employee.

[colinmaclec]

I would love to know where all this cheap overseas labour is coming from. everyone I know on a 457 earns far more than I do. Most 457s are not flipping burgers in Maccas but are highly skilled and qualified.

 

A lot from Ireland and Asia. I have met a lot in my industry who came here on holiday visas and got sponsored but earn less than average. Professional occupations such as engineers etc are different but a 23 year old tradesman? What is the benefit of that to young Australians or people who migrate who are experienced?

[Joebloggs]

I would love to know where all this cheap overseas labour is coming from. everyone I know on a 457 earns far more than I do. Most 457s are not flipping burgers in Maccas but are highly skilled and qualified.

 

A lot are not highly skilled or qualified, they are just prepared to do crap jobs for less money than Aussies because its a possible route to PR. Sure in the job contract and visa paperwork its says they are going be getting X when in reality its all show for the visa and they work for less than the TSMIT. For some people who dont have the qualifications to get PR going the route with no real skills assessment is their only way even if the are working for a pittance very few rock the boat. Why do you Immigration can now link into the ATO to check actually how much 457ers are being paid?

 

as for flipping burgers they actually removed Cafe and Fastfood business from the 457 1st July 2013... now ask yourself why did they do that?

 

And- so what? These people on 457's have spent years and lots of time and money gaining qualifications and experience for the right to stay in Australia and do there job. I bet a lot of these people who are complaining about the 457's are more than happy to sign on Centrelink.

 

I often laugh at cheap throw away lines like this, there will always be a certain % of dole bludgers. 457 visas dont affect dole bludgers, you just cant squeeze blood from a stone.

 

But it does make me laugh ....some people who have no hope of obtaining PR/Migration often spew this kind of rubbish in some attempt to justify why they should get a foot in through the door, the just want to reduce everyone else to their value.

 

If you truely are a gun at what you do then you will be snapped up easy on a 457 its that simple.... its just childish to rubbish locals because they have more of a natural right to work and live in Australia than you do.

 

Its just sour grapes.

[Incata]

The requirements to do labour market testing comes in on Monday 23rd November.

[jack13]

A lot are not highly skilled or qualified, they are just prepared to do crap jobs for less money than Aussies because its a possible route to PR. Sure in the job contract and visa paperwork its says they are going be getting X when in reality its all show for the visa and they work for less than the TSMIT. For some people who dont have the qualifications to get PR going the route with no real skills assessment is their only way even if the are working for a pittance very few rock the boat. Why do you Immigration can now link into the ATO to check actually how much 457ers are being paid?

 

as for flipping burgers they actually removed Cafe and Fastfood business from the 457 1st July 2013... now ask yourself why did they do that?

 

 

 

I often laugh at cheap throw away lines like this, there will always be a certain % of dole bludgers. 457 visas dont affect dole bludgers, you just cant squeeze blood from a stone.

 

But it does make me laugh ....some people who have no hope of obtaining PR/Migration often spew this kind of rubbish in some attempt to justify why they should get a foot in through the door, the just want to reduce everyone else to their value.

 

If you truely are a gun at what you do then you will be snapped up easy on a 457 its that simple.... its just childish to rubbish locals because they have more of a natural right to work and live in Australia than you do.

 

Its just sour grapes.

 

Not really. Look the way I see it like it or not. These people on 457's that get jobs over Australians who don't, are obviously the better person for the job. They are not stealing the job or taking away the job, they are just simply the best man or woman for the job. Simples! which is why an employer would pick them over someone else. And in the case of that more deserving of a job in Australia.

 

And also if the are willing to do rubbish jobs that Australians don't want to do, well then good on them. yes, of course they should be allowed to live and work in Australia because someone has to do those jobs. And there you go you've said it yourself, Australians don't want to do those sorts of jobs. The way I look at it a job is better than no job at all. If I was unemployed I would do the rubbish job.

Edited November 27, 2013 by jack13

[Joebloggs]

Not really. Look the way I see it like it or not. These people on 457's that get jobs over Australians who don't, are obviously the better person for the job. They are not stealing the job or taking away the job, they are just simply the best man or woman for the job. Simples! which is why an employer would pick them over someone else. And in the case of that more deserving of a job in Australia.

 

And also if the are willing to do rubbish jobs that Australians don't want to do, well then good on them. yes, of course they should be allowed to live and work in Australia because someone has to do those jobs. And there you go you've said it yourself, Australians don't want to do those sorts of jobs. The way I look at it a job is better than no job at all. If I was unemployed I would do the rubbish job.

 

Where did I say Australians didn't want to do those jobs? I didn't say that.

 

What I said was foreigners are prepared to do it for less money as a trade off to get PR, doesn't make them better at the job just cheaper.

[fensaddler]

I'd be intrigued how many of you on here rubbishing 457s actually got here on one? Sure, police the system properly so that it isn't rorted, and people aren't exploited, but bear in mind that most 457s are highly skilled people working in international labour markets, are in well paid jobs, have to be paid the going rate for those jobs, and aren't likely to be undercutting new graduates or unskilled workers. And if the job ceases to exist, they go home. Unions want to scaremonger about this in exactly the same way that Gina wants to drive down wages. It is also important to remember that the labour market isn't a zero sum game - otherwise there would be no jobs here at all because there weren't any when the first fleet arrived. People in well paid jobs pay tax and buy goods and services, which in turn creates jobs for other people. Giving a 457 a job does not automatically mean that someone else loses out - in fact the opposite may be true. Properly used, the 457 creates wealth and jobs, brings new ideas and skills (or perhaps provides a much needed skill in a public service) and trains young Australians so that their companies are more competitive and profitable.

Edited November 27, 2013 by fensaddler

[VERYSTORMY]

A lot of the scaremongering has come from the unions and mining. But the reality is very different to the way the unions have portrayed it.

I have worked at a number of the biggest mines in Oz. In that time I can count on the fingers of one hand the amount of 457 holders that were not white collar professionals such as geologists and engineers.

In most mines, 80% of the geological teams were either on a 457 or had originally come on a 457. The reason being that australia has not produced anything like the number of geologists it needs. So, they have to be recruited from outside.

The biggest mine to open in Oz in the last decade was found by a team that is almost entirely British with a smattering of kiwis. If that team had not existed, the mine would not exist and the 1000 Australians that work there would not be employed.

[Pozz]

I got here on one, and can testify that it is nowhere near as easy as everybody here says!

 

I decided to go this route when the point system changed, and as a medical professional with 14 years experience suddenly dropped enough points to no longer be eligible for a skilled migrant 175 to get here during one of the many criteria changes; emailed the minister for immigration via an open forum to ask how i could migrate to australia. The response I recieved advised me that sponsorship via work or state was preferred. This was in 2010.

 

Fortunately I found sponsorship, and now have pr through the 457 transition scheme.

 

I don't know anybody on a 457 who is flipping burgers, or doing unskilled work, and believe me I know a lot of people on 457's.

[flag of convenience]

And- so what? These people on 457's have spent years and lots of time and money gaining qualifications and experience for the right to stay in Australia and do there job. I bet a lot of these people who are complaining about the 457's are more than happy to sign on Centrelink.

 

The so what is that the 457 was supposedly in place to recruit high qualified labour that couldn't be sourced in Australia. Some of us have been aware of the farce for a long time. What does the fact foreigners have qualifications give any entitlement to enter Australia? A recipe for a breakdown in race relations and a general suspicion of foreigners from everywhere ....I think a lot will take offence to the Centre Link jibe.

[flag of convenience]

There has previously been no market testing for 457 visa holders.

 

So this a step in the right direction for those people worried about jobs going to non citizens and permanent residents.

 

For this group to pitch the argument like this, is really rather pathetic government bashing for the sake of it.

 

There was with the original mark 1 of the 457. Later quietly done away with. Previous government said they would restore employers need to search for local workers prior to searching off shore. As it should. How is it government bashing? Fully deserved critique ..

[Pozz]

I think jack13 was saying that most people who complain about 457's have no idea what they are talking about, and those that do come here on that visa are because there is a void in the australian workplace.

[flag of convenience]

Not really. Look the way I see it like it or not. These people on 457's that get jobs over Australians who don't, are obviously the better person for the job. They are not stealing the job or taking away the job, they are just simply the best man or woman for the job. Simples! which is why an employer would pick them over someone else. And in the case of that more deserving of a job in Australia.

 

And also if the are willing to do rubbish jobs that Australians don't want to do, well then good on them. yes, of course they should be allowed to live and work in Australia because someone has to do those jobs. And there you go you've said it yourself, Australians don't want to do those sorts of jobs. The way I look at it a job is better than no job at all. If I was unemployed I would do the rubbish job.

 

They are bringing in a passive work force, dependant on their employer for a permanent visa, willing to put up with crap in the process. Nothing to do with those already here can't or want do the work. As the requirements to seel locals don't require prove that they actually did attempt to source at local level the whole thing is a joke. Aussies in fact barely get a look in, in many cases.

[flag of convenience]

I think jack13 was saying that most people who complain about 457's have no idea what they are talking about, and those that do come here on that visa are because there is a void in the australian workplace.

 

Only problem being jack13 is rather confused with the reality. Self interest I expect. No there is no idea of any void in the Australian work place if employers don't have to show any prove attempting to access local employees.

[Pozz]

They are bringing in a passive work force, dependant on their employer for a permanent visa, willing to put up with crap in the process. Nothing to do with those already here can't or want do the work. As the requirements to seel locals don't require prove that they actually did attempt to source at local level the whole thing is a joke. Aussies in fact barely get a look in, in many cases.

 

Only problem being jack13 is rather confused with the reality. Self interest I expect. No there is no idea of any void in the Australian work place if employers don't have to show any prove attempting to access local employees.

 

I can only comment on my own experiences and of those in similar professional circles.

 

My experience shows that employers have to prove themselves worthy to sponsor 457 temporary, and 186 permanent visas, which is not an easy process. I can not comment on 457 visa processes outside of the UK, of which I am dubious of.

[dxboz]

Not really. Look the way I see it like it or not. These people on 457's that get jobs over Australians who don't, are obviously the better person for the job. They are not stealing the job or taking away the job, they are just simply the best man or woman for the job. Simples! which is why an employer would pick them over someone else. And in the case of that more deserving of a job in Australia.

 

Locals should not have to compete with 457s for jobs. If there is a job a local with similar experience should get it - doesn't matter who is better person for job if both have similar skills. Companies should also be investing in training their workforce not bringing in more 457s. 457s were only supposed to be if skills were not available in Australia - this does not appear to be what is happening. It has all gotten out of control. I know one company rapidly expanding (white collar workers) and it is full of 457s with two token Aussies. There should also be a training budget for each 457 they take on but it certainly is not getting spent where it should be. Tighter controls are needed.

Edited November 27, 2013 by dxboz

[Xenon4017]

We've got a couple of 457s. It's for a specialist industrial process field, and the idea was to train up local people. We've gone through three locals guys in 2 years who at first wanted the job then quit for one reason or another. One of our 457s will have to leave next year anyway.

 

I hear a lot about giving jobs to locals, but when we try, they move on as soon as they hit the first hurdle. It seems to be just too easy to give up and fall back on the Centrelink cushion. Or take the long-service holiday.

 

None of the 457s I know are screwing the tops on toothpaste; they're bringing unique skills that can't be found here and although they're trying to pass these skills on, no one seems to be interested.