Do I stay or Do I go - Confused.com

[SaffaInLondonMovingToOz]

I'm sorry. Reading my post, I come off as a whinging Saffa. That was not the intention. It was just to offer you a different view of Aus which I thought would help you understand that Aus is not all it's cut out to be. We were happy where we were and we threw it away because of a rough patch we hit and we decided to follow our emotions instead of fact.

 

Hi SaffaLeavingOz

 

Thanks SO very much for you detailed message, it's really given me some really good insight! It's really good to hear from a Saffa that has had similar experiences to me. I think all of the things you say are true, having too many choices makes it very hard to stick to something because you always wondering if it won't be greener on the other side.

 

I must be honest one of the biggest reasons I want to remain in the UK is I will probably be financially better off and I will be closer to SA, especially since my brother is having his first baby next year and over the last couple of years I have realized how important family is to me. The long flight and the jet lag is big consideration.

 

In regards to what I am going to do, even thought I am not 100% sure yet, I am leaning towards "trying it out" for a year only and then coming back to the UK as I will have a return flight. I need to just try it and get Australia out of my system for once and for all, I can tick that box and move on. Maybe by some magic I will love it more than the UK (highly doubtful), but I think what it will do is only highlight for me how much I have in the UK, which probably is not such a bad thing as I have taken it for granted a bit over the last few years. Workwise, hate my job here in the UK, I have been in it since I moved here due to sponsorship which is thankfully now over, so I need to change jobs either way. I know moving to another country is a bit drastic and tad expensive, but it might be the reset I need. I won't be going home to SA for the time I am there, almost everyone wants to come and see me - no surprises there :-)

 

When are you moving back to the UK?

[Quoll]

Even if you hate your job, take a career break! You lose nothing in the process. Belt and braces!

 

My eldest son was raised in Aus but went to UK for a post uni gap year ..... 11 yrs ago. I asked him about returning to Aus and he just said "After living in London why on earth would you?" He's now mid 30s, married and on the property ladder with a career he loves. He's been back for 3 holidays and he couldn't wait to leave after the last one - he just wanted to get back to his buzzing life, he was bored silly! That said, Aus is more appealing for the young, I don't reckon it has nearly as much for the elderly (of which I am one)

[saffaleavingoz]

Hi SaffaInLondon

 

 

You'd be surprised how many people have had similar experiences, believe me you're not alone.

 

 

Whatever you choose to do make sure that you're doing it for you and not someone else's idea of what life could be like. That includes my views. I often found that I was influenced subconsciously by family and friends who would say simple things like "I wish I could go to oz, I hear its paradise and the photos of the beaches in the travel mag looks amazing" etc. strange as it may sound. That positive message actually made me think "yeah, we're lucky and we'd be stupid to not do it".

 

 

other than that, don't burn any bridges in your work you hate. You never know who you'll need to call on if you decide to go back to the UK.

 

 

We're planning for a June move.

[starlight7]

I have met several people from SA over here- not many of them seem to settle well. They are just, well, different. Different attitudes, different outlook on life. They don't 'get' us. Funny really because there are certain nationalities which do seem to settle well as a broad generalisation- one of these being the Dutch, and another the Italians ( even though the OP is part Italian, exception proves the rule) I have no explanation for this, it just kind of happens.

[SaffaInLondonMovingToOz]

I am not going to lie, part of the reason why I am reluctant to let go of the dream of moving to Australia are based in other people's opinion that I will be missing a great opportunity. But then without having first hand experience of living in Australia what else do I have to go on other than other people's opinions & experiences? Problem is I have heard so many mixed opinions, so short of having a look for myself I won't know for sure. I do think I will know very quickly whether its for me or not, I knew within 3 months of living here that I wanted to stay, so I am hoping I will have the same clarity in Australia. But in saying that I still have huge uneasiness about both staying and going, either way I am a bit screwed ;-) Maybe I should take some of my mum's advice "you made your bed, now you have to lie in it"!

 

Bit off topic, but I won't burn any bridges, if nothing else I own the company I work for a lot of gratitude because I won't be in this situation if it wasn't for them sponsoring me. BUT I do think the work sponsorship program is very flawed in that companies exploit employee's on sponsorship, and my current company is a prime example of this. So no I will not be calling on them when I return to the UK - once bitten, twice shy. And will my current skill set I would not really need to (I hope).

 

The one good thing about all of this is I am single and don't have any major ties to any country other than emotional, so picking up and moving for a year and then returning is much easier than with a family. I take my hat off to people who move their whole families, that has got to be hard work!

[SaffaInLondonMovingToOz]

Even if you hate your job, take a career break! You lose nothing in the process. Belt and braces!

 

My eldest son was raised in Aus but went to UK for a post uni gap year ..... 11 yrs ago. I asked him about returning to Aus and he just said "After living in London why on earth would you?" He's now mid 30s, married and on the property ladder with a career he loves. He's been back for 3 holidays and he couldn't wait to leave after the last one - he just wanted to get back to his buzzing life, he was bored silly! That said, Aus is more appealing for the young, I don't reckon it has nearly as much for the elderly (of which I am one)

 

I probably will be the same after a year, but then at least I will be wiser in knowing it's not for me :-)

[SaffaInLondonMovingToOz]

Maybe it depends on which part of South Africa your are from?

[mickinqld]

Dear SaffaInLondon

 

I'm also a South African, living in Aus (Melbourne) for 7 years. I've been in the same boat many many times, i.e. should we stay or should we go, etc. The "we" is my wife, two children and I. It seems that the more options you have, the more difficult it is to make a decision, especially on something that is life changing. We're preparing to leave Aus for the UK.

 

My advice will be biased towards saying that you should think twice about moving to Aus. Unfortunately taking bias out of an answer is almost impossible for almost everyone. And I've also seen in your posts that you're very happy in London. You'll never find utopia. So if you're very happy, then that's enough reason to stay put and enjoy your life. You have something that many people lose through bad decisions based on emotions and not fact.

 

My reasons are based on my own views.

 

Fact 1. You live a heck of a lot closer to SA now than you would being in Aus. Even in Perth. It costs us around $7,000-$9,000 dollars on flight tickets to travel at a decent time of year from Melbourne to Cape Town to see family and old friends. Then there is the spending money, which is another $2,000-$4,000 for a 2-4 week stay. Granted, this is with family in tow, but if you do the math, you'll see that it's very expensive to travel from Aus to SA for a holiday.

 

Fact 2. The time zone between Aus and SA is a killer. You'll spend about a week recovering from jet lag in SA, unless you're one of the lucky ones that take a couple of days. With us, that takes one third of our holiday away from us because we can't enjoy family and friends when we're all walking zombies. Also, we can't just pick up the phone or Skype whenever we want. We have to wait and time our comms to SA. It's normally late evening here, and mid morning/late afternoon in SA. You really are at the arse end of the world here.

 

Fact 3. All cities in Aus suffer from a small town mentality, including the big centers Melbourne and Sydney. Which on London and New York standards are quite small in the first place. They also have the added issue of tall poppy syndrome. It is very very rife here. Funny enough I haven't seen that in the smaller rural towns, but it's all over the place in the cities. Australian workplaces are the most frustrating I've ever encountered. In general, Aussies are lazy and self-obsessed. Which is why I hire mainly foreigners. The work ethic is non existent.

 

Fact 3. London is one of the greatest cities on the planet. The diversity and acceptance of other cultures and the integration that's possible is second to none. Not so in Aus. In general, Aussies don't like foreigners. And you'll always be a foreigner if you don't speak with an Aussie accent.

 

Fact 4. There are a LOT more opportunities in the UK and the rest of Europe for work and business. I've just come back from a four week business trip to London, and I can't believe the opportunities I see there when I compare it to the economic prospects in Aus. Aus is living on borrowed time. I own an IT consultancy in Mlebourne, specializing in erp deployment.

 

Fact 4. Although you know this already, and I'm only saying this because I got a sense that you want to capture some of your old days in SA in Aus, Australia is nothing like South Africa. Not in culture. Not in diversity. Not in climate. Yes, the sun shines here far more than in the UK. Similar to SA. But it's not the same. It burns. It's not friendly sun like in SA or the Mediterranean. I'm Italian-South African, and I have an olive complexion. I burn in Aus. Not in SA. My kids can't enjoy a day out in the sun like they do in SA.T

 

Fact 5. There is no such thing as ubuntu in Aus as you find in SA. That sense of compassion and togetherness. You won't find that here. UK has more of this than Aus.

 

Fact 6. Australia is a VERY insular society. They can't see anything past their own borders. It's also a nanny state that puts the UK to shame. Growing up in SA, we all had a very real sense of the world and our place in it. You don't have that in Aus.

 

Fact 7. In Aus, it's all about the beautiful people and sports. Aus doesn't really have a defining culture. And a European-type appreciation for the arts, history, science, comedy, etc. and similar passions that we foreign-born people have, are lost on most Aussies.

 

Fact 8. Australia is probably more safe than the UK.

 

Fact 9. Life in Aus for me has been soul destroying. It's a personal fact I know, but you have to consider that life in Aus just won't match up with life in the UK.

 

There are a lot more things but these come to mind. I know they're based on my own bias, but I also recognize some things in your posts that I have gone through before. And if I have stayed put in the country I was happy in, things may have been different. One of the most unsettling things I've encountered is that everyone "back home" seems to have just got on with their lives and tried to eek out every bit of enjoyment from their lives as they could. We, the priviledged ones, with Italian and South African and Aussie passports, seem to be the ones not able to enjoy life because we can't make a decision and stick with it. We have too many choices. And we can't settle.

 

I don't think you want to leave London. I think that you have a picture in your head of what life in Aus could be like. But I promise you, that picture is 99.99999% flawed.

 

Don't make the mistake of chasing the wind.

 

 

Great at post may I say and very well conveyed, and myself being originally from London, would agree with every point you make.

 

Strangely enough, I get on very well with many saffas in aus now because I find you much closer in attitude and outlook than the locals here.

 

although I am looking at returning to the uk after 12 years in aus for many reasons including the ones listed above, I would say to the OP though that a year would fly by in a new country especially if you treat it like an extended holiday and see as much as you can of the country during that period. I do think that now you have the opportunity, if you do not take it you will regret it in the future.

 

but I would leave as much of your life intact in the uk for you to return to at any stage you wish to return. That includes friends, property, finances, career, etc. I will have to rebuild that part of my life back in the uk and not looking forward to the hastle and cost.

 

the very best of luck to you though!

[Chortlepuss]

I have met several people from SA over here- not many of them seem to settle well. They are just, well, different. Different attitudes, different outlook on life. They don't 'get' us. Funny really because there are certain nationalities which do seem to settle well as a broad generalisation- one of these being the Dutch, and another the Italians ( even though the OP is part Italian, exception proves the rule) I have no explanation for this, it just kind of happens.

 

I had someone from SA working for me and she told me they have a different work ethic. She certainly knuckled down and delivered - although her comments around the office about the Ozzies being lazy bludgers were a bit misplaced and didn't go down too well! Most S Africans I have met are pretty ambitious and driven, assertive speakers and that can be seen to be at odds with the QLD laid back 'matey' culture. To me they are also seem less emotional at work which for me (with a long history of working in the UK) suits.

[wattsy1982]

Sometimes you need to step away from the UK to fully appreciate all that's on offer - I'm glad I did, but cannot wait to return so I can start to really live my life again!

 

This is 100% the best and truest thing EVER said...not just with the UK but life in general...be it people, places, jobs etc.

 

Its so easy to take things for granted when you are there...but when this is taken from us and we are faced with something different..all of a sudden we see it through different eyes.

 

I used to work in London for 5 years prior to moving out here (commuting)...couldnt wait to get away from london after work and get back to the country (suffolk) now.....when i see london on TV especially at xmas it is so appealing...maybe grass is greener etc...its not, just different.

 

Im only 30 but all of a sudden i miss the history of UK/Europe and the quaint places and buildings....never thought id hear myself say that this side of 50!

[starlight7]

I miss the history too- but that is all and the benefits outweigh that.

[Gbye grey sky]

You have had some great responses on here with good arguments both ways. I cannot bring much in the way of personal insight or experience. I am 53, happily married (2nd time) to an Oz citizen with a daughter of 9. I have lived in the south of England all of my life but planning to move to Queensland in 2015.

 

I think that your intention to go for a year at least is spot on and your friends encouraging you to go are right. Some may secretly wish they too had the courage to do this but instead will lean on your experiences. It is not the same. I did not have the opportunity to travel when I was younger but if I had I strongly suspect I would have been cautious and talked myself out of it.

 

Life is for living and experiences, good or bad, shape character and make you. When you are 32, single and with work skills that are in demand should you play safe. Not in my opinion. Gofor itand soak up the experience. Your posts indicate that you would be a nice person to know. People who have lived in different countries are vastly more interesting to know in later life and great company.

 

Sorry about the ramble.

[SaffaInLondonMovingToOz]

Thanks everyone for your wonderful responses!

 

I has, of yet, not made a decision. Yesterday I was convinced I was going to go for a year, soak up the experience & sun. But today I am thinking again that I should stay put, get on the property ladder (something I am dying to do), travel more (finally that will be easier with a British Passport), go home to see family as often as I can and generally make the best of my life here. The thing that worries me about the year is the financial aspect of it. It will eat into my savings considerably, savings I was hoping to use to buy a home sometime in the near future.

 

Anyway I am meeting up with some of my best friends at the weekend to talk this through, they are in a similar position to me and also planning to move to AUSin next year or 2, and they also have their doubts. So will be good to talk to someone in person. I am also going to make a list - sounds lame, but I am willing to try anything at this point!

[stephensteve]

Hi, buying a property would be a great idea....you can then travel, rent it out and it will be there when you go back.

 

Coming to oz for a couple of months would be a great option too, it will cost you all your money, but a great trip,

 

Best of luck anyway..:biggrin:

Edited November 9, 2013 by stephensteve

[saffaleavingoz]

Curious whether you've made a decision yet?

[Melanie939]

I know what you mean cos I hate the what if ?if only ? They will always be at the bk of your mind ,you do sound like you have a great life here though ,awww I do feel for you such a tuff decision ,I am going through something similar , I always say never regret what you do just what you didn't do ,I would go and if the worst happens come back )

[golgo13]

Hello,

 

 

What a great thread and saffaleavingoz I salute you because I have felt exactly the same way you have, minus the kids he he

 

You have outlined what many expats feel and one of my best friends from Pretoria is really struggling with being in Melbourne, he has his partner there and still struggles.

 

I lived in Oz from the age of 25 (2006 - 2012), my main reason was going over to 'see' the place for a girl, however that did not work out but I fell in love with the Australia!

 

However despite loving Aus there was always an itch in the back of my mind that I wanted to return to London to prove myself there and experience the travel that Europe provides.

 

I recently returned from a trip to Japan which cost me £500 return and a 12 hour flight. From Aus which is only 9 hours away I would no way find anything even close to that is affordability!

 

I got my Australian citizenship and then headed to London on a two year plan, one year to discover the place and the second year to live.

 

SaffaInLondonMovingToOz I would highly recommend getting your UK citizenship because that is a huge safety net!

 

I would also suggest that you give Oz a try so that you can make an informed decision but take the approach that you are 'visiting', ensure you have maintained enough links in the UK to make your return easier.

[Ali500]

You said it yourself it takes a long time years in fact to settle in a new country. I've been in Australia four years and am still not completely settled/ happy. If you are really happy in England then why leave to put yourself in limbo. You'll also find it even harder settling in if your heart isn't 100 per cent behind the move. If I was as happy as you sound I wouldn't be changing that!

[garyupnorth]

To me it's quite simple.

if you like it, then stay and if you don't then go. That "give it 2-5 year", IMO is BS.

You'll know if its for you within 6 months so why put yourself through it and endure it any longer than you have to. (Trust YOUR OWN instincts)

Whilst the reason for you coming to Australia is still valid then hang in there, once it becomes null and void get out.

 

Sorry for being so blunt, but to me its that simple.