Citizenship: "When did you first arrive lawfully in Australia?"

[CollegeGirl]

See, that would make more sense to me - but that directly contradicts what I have read elsewhere easily a dozen times - that people get told by Immi that they DO need to reinstate it. Of course, we all know if you call Immi you'll get a different answer every time. I am still personally going to call to reinstate it if I am ever in that situation. Better safe than sorry.

[wongkitogalo]

See, that would make more sense to me - but that directly contradicts what I have read elsewhere easily a dozen times - that people get told by Immi that they DO need to reinstate it. Of course, we all know if you call Immi you'll get a different answer every time. I am still personally going to call to reinstate it if I am ever in that situation. Better safe than sorry.

 

They DO need to reinstate if they travel using their substantive Visa.

 

Most people would have thought that since their substantive visa is still valid, the BVA is not kicked in yet (which is true) but once you are travelling out, the ineffective BVA is automatically killed.

 

I found this in IMMI web:

 

A Bridging visa B (BVB) is a temporary visa. It lets you leave and return to Australia while your application for a substantive visa is being processed. If you return to Australia within the specified travel period, you can then remain lawfully in Australia while your substantive visa application is being processed.A substantive visa is any visa which is not a bridging visa or a criminal justice visa or an enforcement visa. You can hold a substantive visa and a BVB at the same time.

If you still hold a substantive visa that allows you to travel and you believe you can return to Australia before your substantive visa ends, it is your decision whether or not you want to apply for and be granted a BVB before you travel.

If you decide not to get a BVB but use your substantive visa to travel, you will need to contact your case officer as soon as you return to Australia and before your substantive visa ends.

[Raul Senise]

There is much confusion surrounding how bridging visas work.

 

You need to reinstate a bridging visa A if:

 

 

• A bridging visa A has been granted because you have lodged a valid visa application:
  
• The bridging visa A is not in effect because you still hold a substantive visa (in effect the bridging visa A is in the background waiting for your substantive visa to expire);
  
• You depart Australia and return while still holding the substantive visa. This has the effect of cancelling the bridging visa A;
  
• As such, on your return to Australia, you need to reinstate the bridging visa A before your substantive visa expires;
  

 

 

You need to apply for a bridging visa B if:

 

 

• Your substantive visa has expired, the bridging visa A is active and you need to travel; OR
  
• You depart Australia when your substantive visa is still active but will expire before you return;
  

 

The bridging visa B allows you to depart and return to Australia between certain dates and on your return remain lawfully in Australia until a decision is made on your application.

[CollegeGirl]

I knew that BVAs definitely need to be reinstated when people leave without BVBs and their substantive visa is still in force... but I've seen multiple instances of people being told by Immigration that they need to reinstate the BVA after they've gotten a BVB and come back. Perhaps just another case of more erroneous information from Immi. Wouldn't surprise me!

[BritChickx]

This.

 

You can count a tourist visa before the PR visa, but only if you held a visa of some description continuously, if you had any gaps between the tourist visa expiring and the PR visa starting then you cannot count the tourist visa.

so my four years can start from last month? If i go from tourist visa to bridging visa to partner visa, and only go out of the country for holidays.

[dianaos]

This.

 

You can count a tourist visa before the PR visa, but only if you held a visa of some description continuously, if you had any gaps between the tourist visa expiring and the PR visa starting then you cannot count the tourist visa.

 

I have just found this on the citizen website which clarifies that e visas (visitor visas) are not included as part of the 4 year continuous residence requirements even if it was held prior and continuos with the temporary or permanent resident visas. But could be if the e visa was to replace an expired resident return visa (which means the applicant must have held a temporary resident visa before the e visa. See below

 

Australian Citizenship Act 2007 Residence Requirements

 

 

To satisfy the residence requirements you must have:

 

 

4 years lawful residence in Australia. This period must include 12 months as a permanent resident immediately before making an application for Australian citizenship and

absences from Australia of no more than 12 months in total in the 4 years prior to application, including not more than 90 days in the 12 months immediately prior to application.

 

 

Lawful residence means residence in Australia on a temporary or permanent visa.

 

If any of the following applied to you in the past 4 years, please telephone the Citizenship Information Line on 131 880 during business hours to discuss your circumstances.

 

 

You obtained an e-visa to replace an expired Resident Return Visa (RRV)

You obtained a bridging visa of any type

You lodged an onshore application for a permanent visa then travelled overseas on your temporary visa

You are a New Zealand citizen on a Special Category Visa (SCV)

 

I hope this helps everyone as the original post definitely had me confused and maybe even a tad excited...but ho hum we will just have to wait:(

[wongkitogalo]

I rang them and they pull out all of my travel movements and checking all visas that I have held before.

You have to answer a lot of questions before they can pull out your informations in their system.

 

They then will be able to tell you exactly if you meet 4 years lawful residence in Australia, and the date that you will be eligible to put

your application.

Edited December 17, 2013 by wongkitogalo

[Franconian]

I was just reading through this thread, but it is still not clear for me...:swoon:

 

I arrived in Australia on my 1st Working Holiday Visa in July 2009 until June 2010

Back on Evisa from October 2010 for 6 weeks (Evisa expiry July 2011)

 

Then I returned on my 2nd Working Holiday Visa in January 2012 and stayed until now (Permanent resident was granted in January 2013)

 

I don't understand if the "Lawful Residence Date" would be January 2012 or if the first visit counts, i.e. July 2009?

[Quinkla]

I don't understand if the "Lawful Residence Date" would be January 2012 or if the first visit counts, i.e. July 2009?

It would be January 2012. There was a discontinuity between July 2011 and January 2012 when you were not resident. To apply for citizenship, you must have been resident in Australia for 4 years continuously.

[blossom]

It would be January 2012. There was a discontinuity between July 2011 and January 2012 when you were not resident. To apply for citizenship, you must have been resident in Australia for 4 years continuously.

I believe you can have a year out of the country in that time can't you?

[MaggieMay24]

I was just reading through this thread, but it is still not clear for me...:swoon:

 

I arrived in Australia on my 1st Working Holiday Visa in July 2009 until June 2010

Back on Evisa from October 2010 for 6 weeks (Evisa expiry July 2011)

 

Then I returned on my 2nd Working Holiday Visa in January 2012 and stayed until now (Permanent resident was granted in January 2013)

 

I don't understand if the "Lawful Residence Date" would be January 2012 or if the first visit counts, i.e. July 2009?

 

From reading the information on the citizenship pages of the DIBP site, I assume it would be January 2012. While you were here for some lengthy periods prior to January 2012, there were gaps during which you had no legal status in Australia at all as you didn't hold a valid visa so you couldn't be considered a lawful resident.

[MaggieMay24]

I believe you can have a year out of the country in that time can't you?

 

My interpretation is that you can be out of the country as long as you continue to have lawful status in Australia. If you leave because one visa expires and you don't re-enter until a new visa is issued, you wouldn't have any lawful status during that gap.

[Quinkla]

I believe you can have a year out of the country in that time can't you?

You must hold a valid visa continuously during that year. One day without a visa and your clock has to reset.

[NickyNook]

You must hold a valid visa continuously during that year. One day without a visa and your clock has to reset.

 

No, you don't and no, it doesn't.

 

We're going round in circles. See post #38.

 

JAJ has stated elsewhere that nowhere in the Act is it stated that a valid visa is needed for those periods absent from Australia.

 

JAJ is the citizenship expert. If he says a valid visa is not needed, then a valid visa is not needed.

Edited April 1, 2014 by NickyNook

[Quinkla]

JAJ has stated elsewhere that nowhere in the Act is it stated that a valid visa is needed for those periods absent from Australia.

My reading of the Act is that you must not have been unlawfully present in Australia during the four year qualifying period (s22(1)(b)). Absences of up to 12 months may be treated as being present in Australia for the purposes of calculating a period of residence (s22(1A)). However, if you avail of s22(1A) to claim you were present in Australia whilst you didn't hold a valid visa, you cannot comply with s22(1)(b) as it would have been a period of unlawful presence in Australia.

[Franconian]

Thanks for your replies!

 

I finally reached someone from the Citizenship Information Line.

 

He checked my passport in their system and confirmed the same date I received through the calculator when entering my "Lawful Residence Date" of the first stay, i. e. 1 year earlier.

 

Good news for me

[sapphilor]

Hope no one minds if I resurrect this thread. Here's my question:

 

16th of April 2012 - my first arrival to Aus, on an eVisitor tourist visa

30th June 2012 - departure from Aus (eVisitor still valid, but it has a no-more-than-90 days at a time clause)

12th of January 2013 - arrival to Aus (on a following eVisitor, granted while the first one was valid because it would've expired while I was in the country)

bridging visa A, and then 457 visa followed, I only left the country twice for 12 weeks total.

20 of November 2015 - PR granted.

 

When will I be eligible for citizenship?

a) 21 November 2016, because the "first entry date" of the 16th of April 2012 counts?

b) 13rd of January 2017, because the continuous 4 years matter since 12 of January 2013?

 

Thanks!

Edited November 22, 2015 by sapphilor

[Ken]

Hope no one minds if I resurrect this thread. Here's my question:

 

16th of April 2012 - my first arrival to Aus, on an eVisitor tourist visa

30th June 2012 - departure from Aus (eVisitor still valid, but it has a no-more-than-90 days at a time clause)

12th of January 2013 - arrival to Aus (on a following eVisitor, granted while the first one was valid because it would've expired while I was in the country)

bridging visa A, and then 457 visa followed, I only left the country twice for 12 weeks total.

20 of November 2015 - PR granted.

 

When will I be eligible for citizenship?

a) 21 November 2016, because the "first entry date" of the 16th of April 2012 counts?

b) 13rd of January 2017, because the continuous 4 years matter since 12 of January 2013?

 

Thanks!

 

My calculation would be 20 November 2016 as I thought you only needed to be on PR for the final year of the 4 year qualification period not a year and a day (but then I've had a PR visa for over 5 years so it's not part of the rules I read up on so if say it's a year and a day I'll believe you).

[sapphilor]

My calculation would be 20 November 2016 as I thought you only needed to be on PR for the final year of the 4 year qualification period not a year and a day (but then I've had a PR visa for over 5 years so it's not part of the rules I read up on so if say it's a year and a day I'll believe you).

 

hehe, that part isn't so important. I'd definitely give it that extra day for good measure. The question was more about whether or not I needed to wait until Jan 2017. Only relevant because I may be planning an o/s trip around that time and you need to be in the country for citizenship processing.

 

It says "4 years immediately prior" - so for me that's 20th of November 2012, but I wasn't in the country around that date, hence the confusion.

Edited November 22, 2015 by sapphilor

[Ken]

hehe, that part isn't so important. I'd definitely give it that extra day for good measure. The question was more about whether or not I needed to wait until Jan 2017. Only relevant because I may be planning an o/s trip around that time and you need to be in the country for citizenship processing.

 

It says "4 years immediately prior" - so for me that's 20th of November 2012, but I wasn't in the country around that date, hence the confusion.

 

No you don't need to have been in Australia 4 years before applying (I wasn't) provided you did visit Australia at some point before that. You merely need to have been in Australia for 3 out of those 4 years (and if I remember rightly 9 out of the last 12 months) and to have held PR for at least the last 12 months. As I'm sure you'd expect time spent in Australia illegally doesn't count. Some of the commentators on this thread seemed to think you needed to have a valid visa throughout the 4 years. My reading of it is you only needed a valid visa for any periods spent in Australia (but I could be wrong).

[sapphilor]

No you don't need to have been in Australia 4 years before applying (I wasn't) provided you did visit Australia at some point before that.

 

Thanks! Good to hear there's someone else in a similar situation. The online wizard also agrees with you. I put in my dates and it said that I will be eligible on the 20th of November 2016. I was just being nitpicky with the "4 years immediately prior" thing.

 

As for having a valid visa or not, that doesn't matter in my case because my visas were valid throughout - the first evisitor (jan 2012 - jan 2013) was overwritten by the second one (dec 2012 - dec 2013), which got replaced by a bridging visa A. This because my 457 was processing onshore and my maximum 90 days at a time on the evisitor had elapsed. In May 2013 that bridging was replaced by 457, and now I have been granted a 186 (PR). Continuous visas, just not continuous presence in the country.

 

Edit: I just remembered that there's a small 'twist' in it. The first evisitor was on a different country's passport to the 2nd one. But it's still me, they know all my citizenships and have all my current passports' details (they're both still current and will be next year as well). So I guess it shouldn't matter as long as I submit them both.

Edited November 22, 2015 by sapphilor

[4kusnik]

Hi guys,

 

I would highly appreciate if you could clarify few points from Residence Calculator. I was granted a PR visa offshore and on border website it is written:

If you were granted a migrant visa offshore your permanent residence date is your date of first arrival in Australia on this visa.

I was granted a PR visa on 3 Oct 2014 and arrived to Australia first on 25 Dec 2014 to activate my visa.

Then I came back to my home-country on 6 Jan 2015 and returned back to Australia permanently on 9 Jan 2016.

 

Could you please explain what would be Permanent Residence Date and Lawful Residence Date in my case.

 

Thank you.

[Ken]

Hi guys,

 

I would highly appreciate if you could clarify few points from Residence Calculator. I was granted a PR visa offshore and on border website it is written:

 

I was granted a PR visa on 3 Oct 2014 and arrived to Australia first on 25 Dec 2014 to activate my visa.

Then I came back to my home-country on 6 Jan 2015 and returned back to Australia permanently on 9 Jan 2016.

 

Could you please explain what would be Permanent Residence Date and Lawful Residence Date in my case.

 

Thank you.

 

Assuming you haven't and do not leave Australia after 9 Jan 2016 then your 4 year residency period commenced on 9 Jan 2015 and you will be eligible for citizenship on 9 Jan 2019 (3 years continuously in Australia plus one year in 4 that you're allowed to be outside of Australia). It's a pity you spent over a year outside of Australia otherwise you would have been able to include the period before you left in your 4 year residency period.

[4kusnik]

Assuming you haven't and do not leave Australia after 9 Jan 2016 then your 4 year residency period commenced on 9 Jan 2015 and you will be eligible for citizenship on 9 Jan 2019 (3 years continuously in Australia plus one year in 4 that you're allowed to be outside of Australia). It's a pity you spent over a year outside of Australia otherwise you would have been able to include the period before you left in your 4 year residency period.

Hi Ken,

 

Could you please clarify why my 4 year residency period commenced on 9 Jan 2015 and I will be eligible for citizenship on 9 Jan 2019. If 4 year residency started from 9 Jan 2016 then I presume The date of eligibility for citizenship should be 9 Jan 2020.

 

Thank you.

[Quinkla]

Hi Ken,

 

Could you please clarify why my 4 year residency period commenced on 9 Jan 2015 and I will be eligible for citizenship on 9 Jan 2019. If 4 year residency started from 9 Jan 2016 then I presume The date of eligibility for citizenship should be 9 Jan 2020.

 

Thank you.

 

You are eligible for citizenship at the point where you:

 

 

 

• entered Australia four or more years ago,

• have held a visa entitling you to be in Australia continuously for the past four years,

• have held a permanent residence visa for at least the past year,

• have spent no more than one year away from Australia in the past four years,

• have spent no more than 3 months away from Australia in the past year.

 

 

Hence, if you entered Australia in 2014, you can include the year away from Australia prior to your return in 2016 as counting towards the four year qualification provided you do not spend any more time away from Australia. If you go away for a fortnight, you will then need to add an extra two weeks to the date of eligibility, etc.