Citizenship

[foyna]

Hi,

 

I was just wondering if you came on holiday to Australia a couple of months before receiving your PR does the 4 year citizenship clock start from then?

[Peach]

Hi,

 

I was just wondering if you came on holiday to Australia a couple of months before receiving your PR does the 4 year citizenship clock start from then?

 

No, it doesn't start until you become a resident by activating your PR visa.

[xenos1987]

http://www.citizenship.gov.au/applying/how_to_apply/migrant_perm_res/

 

If you were granted a migrant visa offshore your permanent residence date is the date of your first arrival in Australia on this visa.

If you were granted a permanent residence visa onshore your permanent residence date is the date that visa was issued.

 

You also need to be in Australia for 4 years (1 of which as a PR) to be eligible.

[foyna]

Ah ok, it seems that some other posts (I put mine up before looking) say it does http://www.pomsinoz.com/forum/migration-issues/186376-residency-requirement-citizenship.html#post1936222790 also quotes this website- http://www.australianmigrations.com/visa_citizenship_rrt.htm

[Peach]

Ah ok, it seems that some other posts (I put mine up before looking) say it does http://www.pomsinoz.com/forum/migration-issues/186376-residency-requirement-citizenship.html#post1936222790 also quotes this website- http://www.australianmigrations.com/visa_citizenship_rrt.htm

 

But on a tourist visa you are not classed as a resident (either temporary or permanent) and you had no status once you left, so the time does not count.

[Guest GeorgeD]

Ah ok, it seems that some other posts (I put mine up before looking) say it does http://www.pomsinoz.com/forum/migration-issues/186376-residency-requirement-citizenship.html#post1936222790 also quotes this website- http://www.australianmigrations.com/visa_citizenship_rrt.htm

 

Yes, I've been keeping an eye on this too...by the looks of things you can use time spent on a tourist visa to count towards the citizenship requirement. I'm in a situation like this...I first came to Oz in June 2010 as a tourist..left...came as a Temp resident in Oct 2010, then PR Oct 2012...so does my 4 years start in June 2010 or Nov 2010. According to several agents it is June 2010 as I was legally in Oz on a valid visa at that point.

 

Would love to hear from someone who has done it!

[xenos1987]

Ah ok, it seems that some other posts (I put mine up before looking) say it does http://www.pomsinoz.com/forum/migration-issues/186376-residency-requirement-citizenship.html#post1936222790 also quotes this website- http://www.australianmigrations.com/visa_citizenship_rrt.htm

 

Cool wasn't aware that it was possible that a visitor visa counts towards it - guess it would make sense since being on a student visa (temp visa) does count towards meeting the residency requirement

[Guest GeorgeD]

But on a tourist visa you are not classed as a resident (either temporary or permanent) and you had no status once you left, so the time does not count.

 

AMVL seem to think differently. At least two of their RMA staff are members of this forum...

 

From their website http://www.australianmigrations.com/visa_citizenship_rrt.htm

 

In order to be eligible for Australian Citizenship, applicants must meet a number of residence requirements, including;

 

• 12 months as a permanent resident; and

• Being lawfully resident in Australia for 4 years immediately prior to lodgement; and

• Absences from Australia of no more than 1 year in the last 4 years and not more than 90 days in the 12 months immediately before applying.

 

Lawful residence does include time spent on temporary visas (i.e. Student, Working Holiday, Tourist, Bridging Visa) prior to grant or permanent residency.

[Peach]

Yes, I've been keeping an eye on this too...by the looks of things you can use time spent on a tourist visa to count towards the citizenship requirement. I'm in a situation like this...I first came to Oz in June 2010 as a tourist..left...came as a Temp resident in Oct 2010, then PR Oct 2012...so does my 4 years start in June 2010 or Nov 2010. According to several agents it is June 2010 as I was legally in Oz on a valid visa at that point.

 

Would love to hear from someone who has done it!

 

That seems daft, by that logic I must be able to apply for citizesnship. I first came to Australian in 2002 and again in 2004 and then I activated my PR visa in Oct 2010. There is a ministerial waiver for time spent overseas with your Australian partner, but it only counts the time when after your PR was granted.

[Peach]

AMVL seem to think differently. At least two of their RMA staff are members of this forum...

 

From their website http://www.australianmigrations.com/visa_citizenship_rrt.htm

 

In order to be eligible for Australian Citizenship, applicants must meet a number of residence requirements, including;

 

• 12 months as a permanent resident; and

• Being lawfully resident in Australia for 4 years immediately prior to lodgement; and

• Absences from Australia of no more than 1 year in the last 4 years and not more than 90 days in the 12 months immediately before applying.

 

Lawful residence does include time spent on temporary visas (i.e. Student, Working Holiday, Tourist, Bridging Visa) prior to grant or permanent residency.

 

So I can add the weeks I spent here on holiday to my total residence, but not the gaps when I went back to the UK?

[foyna]

I think the issue is around being out of the country for more than 12 months. I have email AMVL so I will let you know.

[xenos1987]

Peach,

 

I think if you decided to apply for citizenship today then if you were legally here (on any temp visa) on 24/09/2009 and you have been a PR since 24/09/2012 then you are eligible provided you meet the "Absences from Australia of no more than 1 year in the last 4 years and not more than 90 days in the 12 months immediately before applying" criteria.

 

[xenos1987]

https://www.ecom.immi.gov.au/citz/startIntervalCalc.do

 

[h=1]Lawful Residence date[/h]If you were granted a Temporary Residence or Permanent Residence visa before you arrived in Australia, the date that you first arrived on that visa is the Lawful Residence date. If you were granted a Temporary Residence or Permanent Residence visaafter you arrived in Australia, the date that that visa was granted is the Lawful Residence date.

[Guest GeorgeD]

So I can add the weeks I spent here on holiday to my total residence, but not the gaps when I went back to the UK?

 

Not sure, but here's may take from my own situation...

 

You go back 4 years from today...during that time (including time as a tourist) do you meet the requriements listed above? From my own perspective I came around the 1st June 2010 as a tourist (eVisitor) for about 10 weeks and left mid August. I then got my 309 offshore spouse visa and arrived in mid October. I was offshore for 2 months or so. I believe I can apply in June 2014 as 4 years prior to that I legally entered Oz and I have not been out of Oz for more than a total of 12 months during that time, and I don't plan on being out for more than 90 days in the final 12 months. I could be completely and utterly wrong, however.

[foyna]

Ah ok, thank you. Sadly back to September for us then!

[Peach]

https://www.ecom.immi.gov.au/citz/startIntervalCalc.do

 

Lawful Residence date

 

If you were granted a Temporary Residence or Permanent Residence visa before you arrived in Australia, the date that you first arrived on that visa is the Lawful Residence date. If you were granted a Temporary Residence or Permanent Residence visaafter you arrived in Australia, the date that that visa was granted is the Lawful Residence date.

 

So this confuses me more. A visitor visa is a temporary residence visa?

[foyna]

Australian

Citizenship Act 2007 Residence Requirements

 

To satisfy the residence requirements you must have:

 

 

 

• 4 years lawful residence in Australia. This period must include 12 months as
  a permanent resident immediately before making an application for Australian
  citizenship
  
• and
  
• absences from Australia of no more than 12 months in total in the 4 years
  prior to application, including not more than 90 days in the 12 months
  immediately prior to application.
  

 

Lawful residence means residence in Australia on a temporary or permanent

visa.

 

This is also confusing! Appears it's not straight forward at all!

[xenos1987]

The Temporary Residents Program has four

broad categories:

• Working Holiday Makers—young people

holidaying in Australia with short‑term work and

study rights. At the end of 2009–10, Australia had

reciprocal working holiday visa arrangements with

25 countries.

• Overseas Students—(or international students) are

people studying full‑time in registered courses in

Australia on a Student visa valid for the length of

their course.

• Skilled temporary residents—people mostly

recruited by Australian companies who enter as

temporary skilled migrants for up to four years

under the Temporary Business (Long Stay)

(subclass 457) visa.

• Other temporary residence—a range of temporary

residence visas allowing people to come to

Australia for social, cultural, international relations

and training purposes.

 

http://www.immi.gov.au/media/publications/statistics/popflows2009-10/pop-flows-chapter3.pdf

 

Dunno and this pdf does not make it clearer

[Guest GeorgeD]

https://www.ecom.immi.gov.au/citz/startIntervalCalc.do

 

Lawful Residence date

 

If you were granted a Temporary Residence or Permanent Residence visa before you arrived in Australia, the date that you first arrived on that visa is the Lawful Residence date. If you were granted a Temporary Residence or Permanent Residence visaafter you arrived in Australia, the date that that visa was granted is the Lawful Residence date.

 

Yes, I've seen that before. It seems to differ from what AMVL have said. To be fair though, other agents have also said the same as AMVL on previous threads on the same subject. The consensus from the agent community here seems to be that tourist visa time can count towards Citizenship.

 

Would be nice to hear from any RMAs browsing this thread

[foyna]

I got this response which I thought I would share:

 

Hi Fiona

 

It can start in April provided in the 4 years from April you do not spend more than 12 months out of Australia – so you would have already used up 5 months now.

 

Regards,

Helen Duncan, BA (Hons), Director

Registered Migration Agent (MARN) 0003187

Fellow Migration Institute of Australia

[Rupert]

Hi,

 

I was just wondering if you came on holiday to Australia a couple of months before receiving your PR does the 4 year citizenship clock start from then?

 

I believe you can, but only if you had a valid visa throughout. If you were without a visa inbetween the tourist visa and PR visa, then I believe the clock will have reset.

[boganbear]

For the sake of a few months is it really worth all this fuss? Just apply 4 years after you came to reside properly instead of trying to rort the system. My understanding is tat tourist visas are not temporary residency visas area tey are not mentioned in te temporary visa category http://www.immi.gov.au/media/fact-sheets/47temporary_residence.htm

 

There are many instances of people coming to the UK as tourists and then disappearing to become illegal immigrants. Whilst you later gained a legal visa what you did is not really that different so I don't see why your time on a tourist visa should count

[Rupert]

For the sake of a few months is it really worth all this fuss? Just apply 4 years after you came to reside properly instead of trying to rort the system. My understanding is tat tourist visas are not temporary residency visas area tey are not mentioned in te temporary visa category http://www.immi.gov.au/media/fact-sheets/47temporary_residence.htm

 

There are many instances of people coming to the UK as tourists and then disappearing to become illegal immigrants. Whilst you later gained a legal visa what you did is not really that different so I don't see why your time on a tourist visa should count

 

Well to be fair, whether anyone thinks time on a tourist visa should count is irrelevant. I firmly believe that it would count in certain circumstances but as I mention above, I believe it would require the OP to have had a substantive visa throughout. So if there was even a one day gap between the tourist visa expiring and the PR visa being granted, I think that resets the clock.

 

I do however agree with you, in that if there is any uncertainty (and clearly there is) then why not just wait for the sake of a couple of months.

[ancient brits]

AMVL seem to think differently. At least two of their RMA staff are members of this forum...

 

From their website http://www.australianmigrations.com/visa_citizenship_rrt.htm

 

In order to be eligible for Australian Citizenship, applicants must meet a number of residence requirements, including;

 

• 12 months as a permanent resident; and

• Being lawfully resident in Australia for 4 years immediately prior to lodgement; and

• Absences from Australia of no more than 1 year in the last 4 years and not more than 90 days in the 12 months immediately before applying.

 

Lawful residence does include time spent on temporary visas (i.e. Student, Working Holiday, Tourist, Bridging Visa) prior to grant or permanent residency.

 

 

 

Just to confirm that I came to Aus on a tourist visa 21st September 2008 pending my CPv143 pr visa being granted. Cpv 143 pr visa was granted Feb 4th 2009.

 

I became eligible for citizenship on 22nd September 2012. This was because the time spent in Aus on tourist visa prior to my PR 143 bring granted counted towards the 4 year residency needed. During this 4 years I made 3 trips back to UK to visit family totalling 11 weeks out of Aus. I also had a trip back between getting approval after test and having citizenship ceremony.

 

Myself and DH put in application for citizenship in January 2013 and after taking test in May 2013 We both have now had the ceremony and became an Australian citizen on 11th September 2013. DH has never been back to UK yet.

 

I hope this info helps you with your dates query

 

Rita