Australia harder than many post

[dodgy]

It never ceases to amaze me of the many people who come to Australia and forget the fact that they have been through the same struggles and endurance to get here and feel they have to be outright rude to people going through the same struggles.Come on people show some impassion.

[Chortlepuss]

What many people struggle with is when they have a successful career in UK, are in demand 'back home' but can't establish the same success here. It seems to happen a lot, I can walk into a job in UK, just can't do this in Brisbane. Demand is different here, rules are different here and very rarely does the most suitable/experienced person get selected for a role. Contacts here are everything, and I get that, but still don't understand how someone being a good mate can take precedence over basic ability. It's embarrassing - I know one IT programme manager who employed her mate as a project manager on 1k a day - he still didn't manage to produce a project plan after a year in post! Of course the project was a failure but she didn't really care! I'll add that this programme manager is highly well paid and sought after .. In the UK she'd be unemployable but she has great friends in high places

I do admire the OP for trying to spread the word - I research everything really thoroughly but struggle with the culture differences 7 years on... But sadly this can fall on deaf ears - People much prefer the Phil Spencer angle

[flag of convenience]

I think some rather harsh comments as well. It can't be easy to see your pile dwindling by the month. It wasn't long ago all/many roads seem to lead to WA. In the sense of work and big bucks anyway. It is not hard to see why folk would be enticed from abroad to set their prospects on a better life in WA.

I know nothing about chippies but assume they were part of the boom, easy money syndrome that seemed to inflict WA.

 

Folk tend to only want to hear the positives prior to immigrating understandably, otherwise the whole process would be up for questioning. Perhaps a tighter reign should be enforced by immigration into where the job shortages actually are. Not just granting a visa to anyone with a trade. I can see a lot of areas being over subscribed in the future. Could be deliberate policy of course in order to keep costs down.

 

Still one can't help but feel for folk whose dreams/hopes unravel to an extent through little fault of their own. It is hard to know conditions until on the ground after arrival. Perhaps the cost of upheaval to an Eastern state is prohibitive? Six months isn't long but can appear a lifetime if doing it tough.

[flag of convenience]

What many people struggle with is when they have a successful career in UK, are in demand 'back home' but can't establish the same success here. It seems to happen a lot, I can walk into a job in UK, just can't do this in Brisbane. Demand is different here, rules are different here and very rarely does the most suitable/experienced person get selected for a role. Contacts here are everything, and I get that, but still don't understand how someone being a good mate can take precedence over basic ability. It's embarrassing - I know one IT programme manager who employed her mate as a project manager on 1k a day - he still didn't manage to produce a project plan after a year in post! Of course the project was a failure but she didn't really care! I'll add that this programme manager is highly well paid and sought after .. In the UK she'd be unemployable but she has great friends in high places

I do admire the OP for trying to spread the word - I research everything really thoroughly but struggle with the culture differences 7 years on... But sadly this can fall on deaf ears - People much prefer the Phil Spencer angle

 

I expect tradesmen fall into another category also. WA was until recently rather open to tradies and the like, but harder perhaps for degree holders. As such expectations fanned by positive reporting lead to the thinking of abundance. Another reason

[flag of convenience]

It never ceases to amaze me of the many people who come to Australia and forget the fact that they have been through the same struggles and endurance to get here and feel they have to be outright rude to people going through the same struggles.Come on people show some impassion.

 

Perhaps those in more recent times didn't have such struggles and those of longer standing had other advantages. Namely cheap housing and high pound. I'm sure those who have had to struggle would have an understanding.

[colinmaclec]

What many people struggle with is when they have a successful career in UK, are in demand 'back home' but can't establish the same success here. It seems to happen a lot, I can walk into a job in UK, just can't do this in Brisbane. Demand is different here, rules are different here and very rarely does the most suitable/experienced person get selected for a role. Contacts here are everything, and I get that, but still don't understand how someone being a good mate can take precedence over basic ability. It's embarrassing - I know one IT programme manager who employed her mate as a project manager on 1k a day - he still didn't manage to produce a project plan after a year in post! Of course the project was a failure but she didn't really care! I'll add that this programme manager is highly well paid and sought after .. In the UK she'd be unemployable but she has great friends in high places

I do admire the OP for trying to spread the word - I research everything really thoroughly but struggle with the culture differences 7 years on... But sadly this can fall on deaf ears - People much prefer the Phil Spencer angle

 

Totally agree with this and that can make it very hard for people who were not at the bottom of their respective careers. Perth has been flooded with people coming here and the jobs are not here despite the government issuing visas. Hence the reason there is such a backlash against 457's. There are a lot of young guys with trades come here on WHV looking for sponsorship and working for less money than the locals or those of us who emigrate with families. It would have been very different a few years back compared to now.

[starlight7]

It can be very hard these days and so much depends on luck- where in Australia you end up and settle, whether the local economy in the state is booming or in the doldrums. By the time you get here sometimes things which looked great a few months previously have turned to dust. When we first applied the houses were laughably cheap but by the time we got here, about 12 months or so later, everything had doubled. This was in the 70s and things are so much harder now. There is a different attitude here for sure ( it actually worked to our advantage) and we found that people actually worked longer hours than in the UK and of course with Australia's face firmly fixed towards Asia this will not improve but only get worse. It is a different way of life, different values, different in so many ways.

[Kenny Mclachlan]

Yes it can be tough getting yourself established, particulary if you were earning well in the UK. But you've got to ask yourself the question 'why did you really come out here?' If it was because you thought you could earn more for less work (like some of the down under shows want you to believe) then you are going to be very very disappointed. If it was for a better lifestyle, then this weekend drive to your nearest coast and take a good look around, then drive for an hour in the opposite direction and take a gander at how different that scenery is from the place you just drove from. Then, when that's done, go back to a populated area, say hello to a few random people and listen to them say 'Hi' back with a smile.

 

Any of that remind you of the UK? No, nor me and that's why I'm staying despite the sometimes tough position financially.

 

There are many things in Oz you don't have to work hard for - nice people and beautiful locations being 2 of them.

[tea4too]

Yes it can be tough getting yourself established, particulary if you were earning well in the UK. But you've got to ask yourself the question 'why did you really come out here?' If it was because you thought you could earn more for less work (like some of the down under shows want you to believe) then you are going to be very very disappointed. If it was for a better lifestyle, then this weekend drive to your nearest coast and take a good look around, then drive for an hour in the opposite direction and take a gander at how different that scenery is from the place you just drove from. Then, when that's done, go back to a populated area, say hello to a few random people and listen to them say 'Hi' back with a smile.

 

Any of that remind you of the UK? No, nor me and that's why I'm staying despite the sometimes tough position financially.

 

There are many things in Oz you don't have to work hard for - nice people and beautiful locations being 2 of them.

 

This is what I see on a regular basis out and about www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-23490611 and I genuinely don’t see or meet those people who refuse to smile or respond to a pleasant ‘hello’ or ‘good morning’. I know there are areas of the UK where life is tough and difficult, but it’s too sweeping a generalisation to imply that nice people and beautiful locations are the prerogative of Aus, and scarcer than hens teeth in Britain. Not trying to turn this into a Aus versus UK thread but felt the need to redress the balance just a little. Tx

Edited August 21, 2013 by tea4too
tidying

[Kenny Mclachlan]

This is what I see on a regular basis out and about www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-23490611 and I genuinely don’t see or meet those people who refuse to smile or respond to a pleasant ‘hello’ or ‘good morning’. I know there are areas of the UK where life is tough and difficult, but it’s too sweeping a generalisation to imply that nice people and beautiful locations the prerogative of Aus, and scarcer than hens teeth in Britain. Just my opinion of course, and not trying to turn this into a Aus versus UK thread but felt the need the need to redress the balance a little. Tx

 

You're right of course, there are areas in the UK that differ wildly. I spent most of my life in different parts of the UK, both with work and living and I can honestly say that, as the years passed by, there was an ever-increasing underlying aggressive feel to most places that I visited or lived. You can see it in everyday life as people constantly walk around about their business not wishing to make eye contact with those they don't know already. Yes, if you took the time to say hello to someone they would likely return the favour with a smile but they would also likely be highly suspicious of you for doing so. There are also lovely, picturesque places but you need to get away from populated areas (which are dwindling rapidly) to find them. Friendly faces and beautiful places are always to be found in the UK but, in my opinion, this is the exception and not the rule. This is one of the main factors in our decision to move our family elsewhere. Unfriendly faces and ugly places seem to be the exception to the rule here and, when you say hello to a stranger here, you don't tend to get a suspicious hello back.

 

I know there will be those that agree and those that disagree as this, of course, is simply my opinion based on what I saw thorugh my eyes.

 

I don't think this should be a UK vs Oz thread either but more of a balanced debate for those that may be thinking of returning? Oz won't suit everyone and neither will the UK.

[VERYSTORMY]

You're right of course, there are areas in the UK that differ wildly. I spent most of my life in different parts of the UK, both with work and living and I can honestly say that, as the years passed by, there was an ever-increasing underlying aggressive feel to most places that I visited or lived. You can see it in everyday life as people constantly walk around about their business not wishing to make eye contact with those they don't know already. Yes, if you took the time to say hello to someone they would likely return the favour with a smile but they would also likely be highly suspicious of you for doing so. There are also lovely, picturesque places but you need to get away from populated areas (which are dwindling rapidly) to find them. Friendly faces and beautiful places are always to be found in the UK but, in my opinion, this is the exception and not the rule. This is one of the main factors in our decision to move our family elsewhere. Unfriendly faces and ugly places seem to be the exception to the rule here and, when you say hello to a stranger here, you don't tend to get a suspicious hello back.

 

I know there will be those that agree and those that disagree as this, of course, is simply my opinion based on what I saw thorugh my eyes.

 

I don't think this should be a UK vs Oz thread either but more of a balanced debate for those that may be thinking of returning? Oz won't suit everyone and neither will the UK.

 

Do you realise that over 90% of the UK is not built on and is still countryside?

[tea4too]

You're right of course, there are areas in the UK that differ wildly. I spent most of my life in different parts of the UK, both with work and living and I can honestly say that, as the years passed by, there was an ever-increasing underlying aggressive feel to most places that I visited or lived. You can see it in everyday life as people constantly walk around about their business not wishing to make eye contact with those they don't know already. Yes, if you took the time to say hello to someone they would likely return the favour with a smile but they would also likely be highly suspicious of you for doing so. There are also lovely, picturesque places but you need to get away from populated areas (which are dwindling rapidly) to find them. Friendly faces and beautiful places are always to be found in the UK but, in my opinion, this is the exception and not the rule. This is one of the main factors in our decision to move our family elsewhere. Unfriendly faces and ugly places seem to be the exception to the rule here and, when you say hello to a stranger here, you don't tend to get a suspicious hello back.

 

I know there will be those that agree and those that disagree as this, of course, is simply my opinion based on what I saw thorugh my eyes.

 

I don't think this should be a UK vs Oz thread either but more of a balanced debate for those that may be thinking of returning? Oz won't suit everyone and neither will the UK.

 

No worries, most of us base our views, thoughts and opinions on personal experience and no one can tell us how to feel. But having worked in various parts of the UK too I can honestly say that I have never felt as you describe. Some areas I liked better than others, some places I met more people I liked or maybe disliked, some streets I would feel very comfortable living in, or wouldn’t touch with a barge pole. But they are my personal views based on my experiences and don’t prove anything really.

 

I responded to your original post as the bits I highlighted (post 34) seemed to suggest that there was no room for doubt, and for me…..there is. Tx

[Xenon4017]

Do you realise that over 90% of the UK is not built on and is still countryside?

 

Or that 90% of the deforestation of GB took place during the middle ages.

 

But anyway, surely you're not arguing that the UK is not overcrowded compared to Oz?

 

But back to the point of the previous post. I tend to agree that people are friendlier here, even if it's just superficially. I think it's in the national persona to greet strangers. And somehow I get the feeling that they're not trying to classify me during their impromptu chats. I must admit I've had some pretty banal conversations here too, but I've seen hardly any aggression or suspicion either.

[VERYSTORMY]

Or that 90% of the deforestation of GB took place during the middle ages.

 

But anyway, surely you're not arguing that the UK is not overcrowded compared to Oz?

 

But back to the point of the previous post. I tend to agree that people are friendlier here, even if it's just superficially. I think it's in the national persona to greet strangers. And somehow I get the feeling that they're not trying to classify me during their impromptu chats. I must admit I've had some pretty banal conversations here too, but I've seen hardly any aggression or suspicion either.

 

No, not saying it is not overcrowded - Oz is practicaly empty. But, to claim you have to go far to get away from people and built environment in the UK is false

[Bobj]

No, not saying it is not overcrowded - Oz is practicaly empty. But, to claim you have to go far to get away from people and built environment in the UK is false

 

Quite interesting, the last few posts. I know it is digressing but have a squiz at this.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18623096

 

Cheers, Bobj.

[newjez]

tbh in either country if someone walked up to me in the street and said hello, they would be doing a survey or trying to sell me something. In both countries, I tend to avoid eye contact and keep walking. Possibly more chance of a pick pocket in the uk, so maybe the people are a bit more street wise.

 

I drive to work through the south downs past Arundel castle, and I used to ride to work up beside the Swan river - and it is pretty hard to beat either view

 

You're right of course, there are areas in the UK that differ wildly. I spent most of my life in different parts of the UK, both with work and living and I can honestly say that, as the years passed by, there was an ever-increasing underlying aggressive feel to most places that I visited or lived. You can see it in everyday life as people constantly walk around about their business not wishing to make eye contact with those they don't know already. Yes, if you took the time to say hello to someone they would likely return the favour with a smile but they would also likely be highly suspicious of you for doing so. There are also lovely, picturesque places but you need to get away from populated areas (which are dwindling rapidly) to find them. Friendly faces and beautiful places are always to be found in the UK but, in my opinion, this is the exception and not the rule. This is one of the main factors in our decision to move our family elsewheiew,re. Unfriendly faces and ugly places seem to be the exception to the rule here and, when you say hello to a stranger here, you don't tend to get a suspicious hello back.

 

I know there will be those that agree and those that disagree as this, of course, is simply my opinion based on what I saw thorugh my eyes.

 

I don't think this should be a UK vs Oz thread either but more of a balanced debate for those that may be thinking of returning? Oz won't suit everyone and neither will the UK.

Edited August 22, 2013 by newjez

[Xenon4017]

Quite interesting, the last few posts. I know it is digressing but have a squiz at this.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18623096

 

Cheers, Bobj.

 

Interesting read. But of course, there's lies, damn lies and statistics. An intensive poultry farm would be classed as rural, I suspect. But it is more of an eyesore (and nose sore??) than a canal aqueduct, or suspension bridge. There's not much "natural" in the UK. Even the green patchwork that we regard as countryside is the result of many centuries of shaping by the hands of the inhabitants. Oz lacks these obvious signs. The natural beauty here is as Nature intended, not as man made it.

 

And I'd agree that even in city scapes in the UK there are hidden corners, and what a delight they are. I'd also suggest that having really huge uninhabited areas here doesn't really benefit me much. What do I care if there's not another soul for 2 miles or 200 miles. It feels just as empty. The only time I appreciate it is at the beach, where I can wander 100m "away from the thronging (thonging?) masses" and get about a hectare for myself.

 

Perhaps the previous posters celebration of isolation here is borne from a desire to "get away from it all" and he can't achieve this if he's confronted with views over "some of it".

 

Another point that I find interesting is that Europe tends to have greater access to the countryside. In the UK the ramblers are quite militant about their rights to pathways, and in Switzerland where I used to live, there are laws about what the owner can and can't do with private woodland. One thing he can't do is put up fences and exclude access. Even allowing others to gather firewood is entrenched in law. Whereas in Oz, if you own the land you really own it. Put up a fence, let your Rottweilers run free and threaten to shoot anyone who wanders over the boundary.

[Peach]

Whereas in Oz, if you own the land you really own it. Put up a fence, let your Rottweilers run free and threaten to shoot anyone who wanders over the boundary.

 

That depends on which state / territory you live (no one owns land in ACT for example) and whether or not you've got valuable minerals resources underneath it....

[Guest Ptp113]

With all due respect I'm not here to ask for advice on the day to day running costs

I'm well aware of our costs the original post is more about the reality of life down under which if I'm honest is as much a culture shock as financial tbh .Aussies are certainly not Europeans more insular

\

 

Thank Christ they're not Europeans, that would be the pits!