claiming pension when leaving oz as PR

[Tea4two]

Hi guys

 

Quick question, is it true that we cant release money work have paid to our super over the last 2 years when we leave?

 

My cousin is here on sponsored visa and will leave to go back after 3 years and he can claim thousands back, yet us that paid a fortune to get here on a resident visa, we are going back to uk next year and we dont get back anything till we are pension age if am lucky enough to get to it??

 

Could of done with the money to put towards a house back home.

[Peach]

If you are a PR visa you can't get the money back until you retire.

[Tea4two]

If you are a PR visa you can't get the money back until you retire.

 

Ok I thought as much, will add this to the list of reasons for leaving australia, thanks

[buzzy--bee]

Ok I thought as much, will add this to the list of reasons for leaving australia, thanks

 

You could, of course, have discovered this before you left for Australia and taken it into consideration as a potential reason not to come, rather than blaming Australia for the fact that you don't like its legislation.

 

BB

[Rupert]

Ok I thought as much, will add this to the list of reasons for leaving australia, thanks

 

Yes it will have to stay there until retirement. This is how retirement savings work you see, it is how it works in the UK as well, so not sure why this is a reason to leave Australia.

 

Your poor cousin on the other hand, will have three years less of pension contributions, this is not a good thing you know...

[buzzy--bee]

it is how it works in the UK as well,

 

Don't think it is.

 

I moved my UK pension to Australia.

 

BB

[Rupert]

Don't think it is.

 

I moved my UK pension to Australia.

 

BB

 

I was really referring to not being able to get the cash until retirement, which is what the OP seems to want to do.

[Tea4two]

You could, of course, have discovered this before you left for Australia and taken it into consideration as a potential reason not to come, rather than blaming Australia for the fact that you don't like its legislation.

 

BB

 

Ill blame OZ if I like cos like a lot of their legislation it's crap. If I leave here with no intent to return I should be able to give up my PR status and take my super with me allowing me to invest it where I like- in a house which is like a pension anyway or towards my UK pension. Instead it will sit in OZ and I have no doubt more legislation will come in over the years making it inaccessible or useless to me when the exchange rate changes. This rule was brought in to stop people withdrawing their super and then returning to OZ with no pension. I should be able to give up my PR so I can't return and take it with me.

 

We did lots of research before we came out actually but this wouldn't have been a make or break for us as you don't exactly come here as a PR expecting to leave.

 

I merely asked a question in case there were loopholes as there often are.

Edited August 18, 2013 by Rupert
Removing personal comments.

[Tea4two]

Don't think it is.

 

I moved my UK pension to Australia.

 

BB

This is my point. You can move pensions in to OZ ones, but not vice versa

[Tea4two]

I was really referring to not being able to get the cash until retirement, which is what the OP seems to want to do.

 

I didn't say get the cash to go splashing out on holidays, I said for a house. This is an investment and its personal opinion how you want to set yourself up for the future. I understand how pensions work thank you.

[Rupert]

I didn't say get the cash to go splashing out on holidays, I said for a house. This is an investment and its personal opinion how you want to set yourself up for the future. I understand how pensions work thank you.

 

Well you don't seem to understand how pensions work, because you are questioning why you cannot access it now. And you also seem to be suggesting that there is something unusual about the Australian pension system, try getting your UK pension money for a house now..

 

Pensions and super are for your retirement. Not for houses, boats, cars, holidays or anything else that you want now. It would be very easy for anyone to say, I want my retirement money now but I will invest for the future honest, but that would be completely ungovernable and history shows that many people do need encouragement to save for retirement. How can a government decide who can be trusted and who cannot be trusted to put money away for retirement. That is why pensions are a good thing. You are only seeing the very small picture on this.

Edited August 18, 2013 by Rupert

[Tea4two]

No Rupert you are seeing the small picture on this. When we leave OZ we want our super to come with us which is very reasonable if we have no intent to return. That is why temp visa holders can get theirs (in cash may I add) when they leave...because they are not intending to be in this country when they retire. It is absolutely not unreasonable to expect the same if I give up my PR visa. Who wants 2 yrs+ of super sat in an account in another country! It doesn't make sense.

 

My husband gave the example of buying a house because his cousin will be able to do exactly that. However we would be happy to have the money transferred to our UK pension. And in fact I got a rebate of my government pension after working on a contract of less than two years in the UK to fund part of the move here. I could do that as we have been savvy with other investments in the UK and have no retirement worries thank you.

 

Don't preach to me about the purpose of a pension (especially not boats etc as this was never mentioned) when the issue here is why it would be reasonable to have your super in another country you have no intention of retiring in...I'll tell you why, because its another money making scan. They hope you forget about it as its so insignificant and it will go unclaimed which means it will go straight to the Australian taxation office according to the advert on TV at the moment. It isn't money the government has given me, it's money that I have worked for and as such should be able to transfer it to my chosen pension when I leave the country. Simple.

[MarkJP]

You can’t compare your situation with your husband’s cousins as he was on a TEMPORARY visa. You chose to get a PERMANENT visa which puts you in the same boat as any other Australian. The clue is in the name. Pretty much every civilised country has similar rules regarding pensions. Usually after a couple of years it’s inaccessible until retirement. Yes you’ve worked for this money but you’re going to get a benefit from it (tax-free) when you retire. If you don’t keep track of it then that’s your own problem.

 

It’s not a money making scam. If anything the Government are losing money on Super with all the tax breaks etc. The reason you can’t transfer to a UK pension is because they are very different systems in terms of tax relief so it’s not like for like.

 

Having said all that, there are I believe ways of accessing your Super if you are prepared to relinquish your PR. I think it involves submitting a case to the Tax commissioner and then you need your Super fund to comply too. It’s pretty complicated but if you’ve a large sum it may be worth getting professional legal advice on it.

[Tea4two]

You can’t compare your situation with your husband’s cousins as he was on a TEMPORARY visa. You chose to get a PERMANENT visa which puts you in the same boat as any other Australian. The clue is in the name. Pretty much every civilised country has similar rules regarding pensions. Usually after a couple of years it’s inaccessible until retirement. Yes you’ve worked for this money but you’re going to get a benefit from it (tax-free) when you retire. If you don’t keep track of it then that’s your own problem.

 

It’s not a money making scam. If anything the Government are losing money on Super with all the tax breaks etc. The reason you can’t transfer to a UK pension is because they are very different systems in terms of tax relief so it’s not like for like.

 

Having said all that, there are I believe ways of accessing your Super if you are prepared to relinquish your PR. I think it involves submitting a case to the Tax commissioner and then you need your Super fund to comply too. It’s pretty complicated but if you’ve a large sum it may be worth getting professional legal advice on it.

Thanks for the helpful last paragraph. Why people on here think they can be so patronising is beyond me. "The clue is in the name". I'm well aware chief of the differences having gone through the system ourselves. But why can't I compare? If he can get his back when he leaves permanently so should we when we leave permanently...in whatever way they see fit. Whether that's to tax the hell out of it first I don't care. But I don't want two years worth of a pension in another country. Say what you like but OZ is a money making scamming country. We paid so much to get here and rules like this (which we have already found don't apply in the UK as they let you transfer it to another country) only reinforce what we think. My opinion and no smart talking judgemental POI members can change that. I don't think we will ask for advice on this forum again... All you get is sarcy, judgemental people who offer no helpful advice at all.

[Que Sera Sera]

Thanks for the helpful last paragraph. Why people on here think they can be so patronising is beyond me. "The clue is in the name". I'm well aware chief of the differences having gone through the system ourselves. But why can't I compare? If he can get his back when he leaves permanently so should we when we leave permanently...in whatever way they see fit. Whether that's to tax the hell out of it first I don't care. But I don't want two years worth of a pension in another country. Say what you like but OZ is a money making scamming country. We paid so much to get here and rules like this (which we have already found don't apply in the UK as they let you transfer it to another country) only reinforce what we think. My opinion and no smart talking judgemental POI members can change that. I don't think we will ask for advice on this forum again... All you get is sarcy, judgemental people who offer no helpful advice at all.

 

 

:shocked: Ouch

[Peach]

Having said all that, there are I believe ways of accessing your Super if you are prepared to relinquish your PR. I think it involves submitting a case to the Tax commissioner and then you need your Super fund to comply too. It’s pretty complicated but if you’ve a large sum it may be worth getting professional legal advice on it.

 

I don't think this is true... The only plausible way I've heard of possibly getting the money out is to open a self-managed fund and then basically embezzle the money out.

[MarkJP]

To be honest I think the “sarcy, judgemental” responses are more to do with your attitude that this country owes you something than your question itself. Yes the UK allows you to transfer pension overseas which is a good thing but it is one of the more advanced in this area. Australia does not allow it and never has. However given the amount of people coming and going in Oz in recent decades I can see this changing in the future.

 

You can’t expect immigration to just take your word for it that you’re leaving permanently. The fact is, when you have permanent residency you can return to the country at any time. If a temporary resident wants to leave the country then they’re happy to give them a refund as they couldn’t care less if they blow it all, they’re not going to be retiring in Australia, therefore it’s none of the Australian governments concern.

If you though took a refund and went back to the UK and spent it all, you could still go back to retire in Australia and live off state benefits. I’m not saying this is your intention at all but it may be for some people and that is what they are looking to avoid.

[Tea4two]

Which is exactly why I said if we give up our PR status therefore they don't have to take our word for it, we wouldn't be able to come back. And if we did it would be by applying again and starting the PR process again... Which those on a temp visa can do also.

you know nothing about my attitude. I have never expected anything from this country other than what I make of it. And the only thing Australia owes me is MY super that I paid. We came here off our own back, paying PR fees and tests and we didn't go for the route of having an employer give us support to move here. We didn't expect anything from anyone. But I can criticise and question legislation if I like...favouring the UK system over this one. It doesn't mean my attitude is wrong or I expect something for nothing.

[Ronan20]

I just e-mailed my super fund about withdrawing my super and returning home. this is what the e-mail response was:

 

The option to withdraw your Superannuation Fundsafter departing Australia is only open to members who are not citizens ofAustralia or New Zealand.

 

Nothing there about PR

[Tea4two]

Thanks for that Ronan, I'll try contacting mine directly and see what the advice is also. Thanks

[Peach]

I just e-mailed my super fund about withdrawing my super and returning home. this is what the e-mail response was:

 

The option to withdraw your Superannuation Fundsafter departing Australia is only open to members who are not citizens ofAustralia or New Zealand.

 

Nothing there about PR

 

The information on the ATO website is clearer: http://www.ato.gov.au/Individuals/Super/In-detail/Temporary-residents/Super-information-for-temporary-residents-departing-Australia/

[h=2]About departing Australia superannuation payment[/h] If you are a temporary resident working in Australia, your employer has to make super guarantee contributions for you if you're eligible.

You can claim super benefits you accumulated while working in Australia if all of the following apply:

 

 

• you visited on a temporary visa (excluding visa subclasses 405 and 410)

• your visa has ceased to be in effect

• you have left Australia.

 

Your claim is generally for a 'departing Australia superannuation payment' (DASP).

 

 

Who cannot claim a DASP?

 

 

• Australian citizens

• New Zealand citizens

• Permanent Australian residents

• Retirement visa holders

• Investor retirement visa holders

 

If you are in one of the above categories, you have the right to retire in Australia, so you cannot claim a DASP. However, if you are a New Zealand citizen leaving Australia permanently, you may be able to transfer your super to New Zealand.

[scuffythetugboat]

Just to add to the confusion. I spoke to my super fund a couple of months ago with regards to withdrawing my money from my fund. One scenario was if you are over 55 when you depart permenantly to retire from Australia then you can withdraw all your funds. I was quite surprised by this as I'm an Australian citizen. I don't have it in written form but I did get the man to repeat what he said.

[Tea4two]

Yes that is confusing but looking at the ATO website it would seem clear? I think we will get some financial advice so we know if there are any loopholes people aren't aware of then I'll post to advise what they say Thanks

[blossom]

If you left the country on a pr visa it doesn't last forever, so maybe you just have to wait for it to expire???

[MarkJP]

I’ve no interest in getting into an argument and I agree with you that there should be an official way of revoking residency or transferring your pension overseas. You spent a lot of time and money getting the permanent residency so that you could get the exact same rights as an Australian and that’s what you’ve gotten, for better or worse.

 

Unfortunately there’s no a la carte residency where we can choose the best bits of each countries laws so we have to just accept that some things won’t work out the way we wanted. I’m going to have the exact same issues as you when I return home but I accepted this when I signed up for it.

 

It is still your money; it’s still there and you still have complete control over where it’s invested. Any pension you build up in the UK will be the same, you won’t be able to access it until retirement.