flag of convenience Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 Like I said, "Last one in the balloon pulls up the ladder". I hope it all works out for you. Heaven forbid you ever want to move to another country and start again. You'd be at the mercy of whoever had recently gained citizenship in that country. And even any change in regulations, which may be more to the point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 We came over on a 457, several reasons really, we did apply for permanent residency and paid out a hell of a lot of money in the process (family of 4) at the very end medicals/police check etc., etc., etc., all completed and being told on forums "that's it the visa will be through any day now" we were told by diac we were 5 points short and no you can't do anything else but reapply if you can find those 5pts from somewhere as this came through we had birthdays and consequently "lost" points - gutted is a understatement - so our only choice left was employer sponsorship which scarilly happened very quickly, and told by sponsor we can help you gain PR (dangle that carrot) So here we are, a gamble i know and its not been easy to say the least and yes we will pay education fees and are already doing so for eldest to attend tafe, and "voluntary" contributions at school. financially, i said the other day i feel we've committed financial suicide, but we will survive and i will have to find a job, but i keep being told that won't be a problem (by citizens) as there aren't enough nurses here to fill the vacancies in the ever expanding healthcare system and especially in mental health. I don't know what the future will hold, i will be honest and say yes i would like to have pr and stay forever, as a family we are committed to australia and have ploughed a awful lot of money into the local ecconomy, small fry in in the larger scale of things i know.. I just thought i would share our story on why we had to go for 457 Odd. You as a mental health nurse I would have thought would have qualified. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keily Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/western-australia/families-could-boycott-wa/story-fnhocxo3-1226699388884 looks like they are getting the publicity they wanted :biggrin: mrs keily Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErmintrudeMcMoo Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 Until the state government clarifies whether people already here will have to pay then everyone is left in limbo, it's like they just came out with the first thing they thought of without thinking about how they will fully implement it. Having said that the education dept is going to be screwed for funding, they are talking about 1000 jobs cuts between teachers and admin staff, less money coming from a central budget with schools being hung out to dry and left to pay for more things locally. Going to the education dept with a petition will achieve diddly squat, petition the government, they are the ones who make the policy. To be honest I think the government is doing this to try and put the brakes on people coming over, and it does bring wa into line with most other states. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 Those with several kids should perhaps be of the mind if a 457 best suits their requirements. I question that if a temp visa(as the Irish family in WA Today, came on) goes with the moving of a whole family with5 kids to the other side of the world, is not being somewhat reckless all round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyHeart Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 no more reckless than staying put with no chance of earning a decent wage to bring them up! interesting to see the 'if you dont like it get fecked brigade' If all the 457 holding nurses did one the hospitals would be on their knees! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mongrel Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 This fee can be claimed on tax I believe as it is a work related cost , slug Barnett trying to get one up on Canberra again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Que Sera Sera Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 no more reckless than staying put with no chance of earning a decent wage to bring them up! interesting to see the 'if you dont like it get fecked brigade' If all the 457 holding nurses did one the hospitals would be on their knees! This is another point entirely . If an occupation is that much in demand ( ie most medical professions ) then they should have the critical skills list again and fast track PR not plug the gap with 457's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mongrel Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 Those with several kids should perhaps be of the mind if a 457 best suits their requirements. I question that if a temp visa(as the Irish family in WA Today, came on) of 457 goes with the moving of a whole family with5 kids to the other side of the o, is not being somewhat reckless all round. Sensationalist stuff again , majority of 457 are Asian and they will pay it , look at the kids at Winthrop , a lot of Asian kids fees are 20 k a year . Hospitals are setting on 457 because they need staff and its the quickest route , they are fair with pr , but it isn't guaranteed . Barnetts a louse , be fun when he comes for penalties , watch the system shut down when the public sector Says NO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyHeart Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 A lot of nurses don't have the points...crazy...rules changed shortly after we came..they make it up as they go along..cant blame them I suppose all governments think of the here and now without much thought for the long term consequences...save a bit now..do it cheaply....worry about it when your the opposition again... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiara Posted August 18, 2013 Author Share Posted August 18, 2013 You're wrong actually, we have several politicians involved. An education is a right as laid out in the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child, to which Australia is a signatory. Every child has the right to a free education and the WA government have completely ignored this through some clever legal sidestepping. What they are doing is wrong. Despite the very negative reaction on here, we are gaining a lot of support and are planning a rally at parliament house in a couple of weeks. Thanks to anyone who does support us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 An education is a right as laid out in the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child, to which Australia is a signatory. Every child has the right to a free education and the WA government have completely ignored this through some clever legal sidestepping. What they are doing is wrong.. I don't think the Rights of the Child statement is law. Or if it is, it also means that it is the law that a child will be brought up with "love and understanding" in a "universal brotherhood". No, I don't think it is law, I think it is an aspirational statement, maybe a guiding principle but that is very different to law.. And in any case your children do have access to a free education. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronan20 Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 (edited) I can't believethe amount of venom directed against 457 visa holders on this site. A lot of it seems to be from posters who have PR, and hate the thought of people coming over on 457, who they think may have had an easier ride or may not have spent the same amount of money. I have seen a few posters post that "I spent a lot of money... well so what!! try and not be so nasty. Someone else made the comment, that PR were potential voters, well so could 457 visaholders be potential voters. This is rubbish legislation, that nobody could have foreseen, not even the wonderful visionaries on this site that have PR. If they can change the rules for the 457 visa holders without thinking of the consequences, they can just as easily do it for PR visa holders. You are not a protected species. Rant over......:mad: Edited August 19, 2013 by Ronan20 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest littlesarah Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 I don't think there is 'venom' as such - just the obvious statement that 457 visa holders are not afforded the same privileges as those who hold PR visas. The 457 visa, in my view, seems to come with much less certainty all round than a PR visa - it doesn't entitle the holder to much more than the right to live and work in Australia for such time as the sponsor wishes to employ them. I'm not getting into the rights and wrongs of that - it is the way it is, and anyone applying for sponsorship should be cautious about doing so, in my opinion. As for rules changing for PR visa holders, I would imagine that would be harder to enact because of the fact that PR visa holders have much the same rights as citizens, with the exception of the right/requirement to vote or do jury service. Essentially, WA is just bringing in the same conditions that apply in other states that already charge non-residents for schooling. I agree it seems unfair that the change will apply to those already here, and those who are affected can (and obviously are) exercising their democratic right to make their views known. But, with any change in law there are often winners and losers (e.g. I will most likely miss out on the baby bonus by about 2 weeks). As for the 'rights of the child', I think WA is on relatively safe ground because they are not denying children an education, but charging for the privilege. (Compare that to countries in which female children cannot legally attend school). If other States are able to charge for schooling, in the eyes of Federal law, it would seem that there is a precedent. But I'm no lawyer... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiara Posted August 19, 2013 Author Share Posted August 19, 2013 Ronan20, couldn't agree more, very surprised by the vitriolic reaction to this. What is everyone so afraid of? And littlesarah I'm sorry but they ARE denying them an education! By saying you have to pay for it they're putting it out of reach for many families and many are facing some very tough choices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 Have you considered home schooling ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Que Sera Sera Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 I can't believethe amount of venom directed against 457 visa holders on this site. A lot of it seems to be from posters who have PR, and hate the thought of people coming over on 457, who they think may have had an easier ride or may not have spent the same amount of money. I have seen a few posters post that "I spent a lot of money... well so what!! try and not be so nasty. Someone else made the comment, that PR were potential voters, well so could 457 visaholders be potential voters. This is rubbish legislation, that nobody could have foreseen, not even the wonderful visionaries on this site that have PR. If they can change the rules for the 457 visa holders without thinking of the consequences, they can just as easily do it for PR visa holders. You are not a protected species. Rant over......:mad: Well I'm not against 457 holders at all, I have friends who have come over on them and are lovely people. But I am against the visa itself. It's continually putting the holder at disadvantages , this being one of them. I still believe PR is the better route IF you can get it. What's wrong with that opinion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peach Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 Once WA bring in this policy and come into line with NSW and ACT, how long before VIC, SA and NT follow suit? Personally I still think if an employee is facing a shortfall, it is the sponsors responsibility to fix. Much in the same way as they are responsible for repatriating 457 families back to their country of origin at the end of the contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiara Posted August 19, 2013 Author Share Posted August 19, 2013 Not everyone gets PR, and it is expensive. On the one hand we're being told that the country can't afford us, on the other hand we're being told 'go for PR' which will make us even more expensive. For our family the cost of the PR visa has tripled in the past three months. We will be trying to go for it - if hubby's employer is willing to sponsor us - but there's no guarantee of success. And yes, I will homeschool if I have to face these fees, and I'll be busily applying for Canada in the meantime... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenon4017 Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 (edited) Once WA bring in this policy and come into line with NSW and ACT, how long before VIC, SA and NT follow suit? Personally I still think if an employee is facing a shortfall, it is the sponsors responsibility to fix. Much in the same way as they are responsible for repatriating 457 families back to their country of origin at the end of the contract. Hey, don't forget QLD! And TAS. OK, forget TAS, but without QLD Australia wouldn't have a pointy bit at the top right. And that's about the only bit people can draw correctly. Anyway, your question was how long before the change goes nationwide? Just as soon as the polis realise it's a vote winner. Get tough on boat people, get tough on 457s. Get tough on anyone who can be scapegoated without being able to fight back. If employers do come under pressure, I would imagine they'll just try to sponsor PR, which would work out cheaper. Maybe for some 457s it'll be a less than an ill wind. As for venom, this gets pretty close: >>I've seen too many here flashing the cash on big houses and living in areas they can't afford $76 a week is barely more than a carton of beer. Ultimately though if they don't like it they can always go back to the UK they do have that option. What brand of beer are you drinking? And are you drinking the whole carton before you post? A family with two kids will have to get 8k together in 4 months. 500 bucks a week. I couldn't do that. And they've had no warning. Edited August 19, 2013 by Xenon4017 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 Ronan20, couldn't agree more, very surprised by the vitriolic reaction to this. What is everyone so afraid of? And littlesarah I'm sorry but they ARE denying them an education! By saying you have to pay for it they're putting it out of reach for many families and many are facing some very tough choices. You miss the point. 457s are here to fulfil a particular supposed requirement. It is not, or shouldn't be the same rights as those here on PR. The costs are far less to apply and if the salary is too low to support your own family then easy don't accept it. I agree though one year should be given to those already here and will be impacted on. All new ones pay the required amount. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VERYSTORMY Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 Ronan20, couldn't agree more, very surprised by the vitriolic reaction to this. What is everyone so afraid of? And littlesarah I'm sorry but they ARE denying them an education! By saying you have to pay for it they're putting it out of reach for many families and many are facing some very tough choices. Nobody is denying children an education. You are here on a tmp basis - one step up from a WHV. Australia, is NOT your home country as you are not resident in Australia. You are abl to gain free education in your home country. The fact you chose to bring your children to another country for a 4 year period was your choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 I think its fair to question thought the level of commitment to Australia of these 457 holders. Should we offer a free education if they will bugger off to Canada at the first hint of a better offer there ? I'd say No. Free education for citizens and possibly PRs but not temporary visitors sounds right to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenon4017 Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 I think its fair to question thought the level of commitment to Australia of these 457 holders. Should we offer a free education if they will bugger off to Canada at the first hint of a better offer there ? I'd say No. Free education for citizens and possibly PRs but not temporary visitors sounds right to me. You could also question the level of commitment from PRs, or even citizens for that matter. Is a 457 on 120k a year contributing more than some dole bludger who's never worked a day in his life? "and possibly Prs". That sounds interesting. What kind of conditions would you make? Resident for a minimum time period? Cumulative tax revenue above a certain threshold? Level of participation in community activities? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
northernbird Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 Not forgetting those that stay long enough for citizenship and return to their country of origin. A lot have take advantage of education, centrelink, medicare. No different in tax $$ to a 4 year 457. Where is the vitriol towards them. There but for the grace of God and all that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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