chiara Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 (edited) I'm sure you're all aware that the government are trying to push through legislation to make parents on 457 visas pay $4000 per child to attend a state school, from January 2014. For many this will create a financial burden on what is already an extremely expensive country. Personally we are facing $20k a year to send our kids to our local school if this comes through (and please if you want to post about how I shouldn't have them if I can't afford them, please post elsewhere, I've already heard it and taken note...) The government already cut the living away from home allowance (LAFHA) for 457 visa holders last year, cutting hundreds of dollars off our weekly incomes, so this is just another kick in the teeth. Please sign the petition , it may achieve nothing, but it might achieve something...we're also trying to get together and see if we can do something more proactive, so let me know if you're interested in being involved. Thanks! https://www.change.org/en-AU/petitions/the-department-of-education-wa-abort-plans-to-introduce-a-4-000-school-fee-for-children-on-457-visas Edited August 11, 2013 by The Pom Queen Forum rules, post edited Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy1 Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 Personally, I would have hoped that it would be grandfathered for people already here so that they would not have to pay the $4000 fee. Potential or new 457 applicants will be aware of the change and budget accordingly or simply decide not to apply. It is fair enough to expect payment of school fees - but that is only my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 Well I also would have thought that perhaps it would apply to new 457 applicants only... but if that is not the case then I think people should take it up with their employers, People coming on a 457 via should make sure that they or their employer can pay school fees before they move on this temporary visa. Too many assume this is a permanent visa or entitles them to the same right as citizens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 Sorry but do you really believe that a petition on Facebook by a load of pis*ed off poms is going to make the slightest bit difference! I read a good point on another forum about how a lot of the 457 families are not english speaking and interpreters, teachers aides etc have to be paid for, not every 457 family is POM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiara Posted August 10, 2013 Author Share Posted August 10, 2013 Wow, thanks for the support guys!! Firstly, people on 457 visas pay tax the same as everyone else, and remember we're not entitled to medicare or any other bonuses that PR or citizens can expect. That's fine by the way. Secondly, the only way around it for the likes of me is to apply for PR, so explain to me how that suddenly makes my children affordable to the system? This is effectively forcing those on 457 visas to apply for PR, even though many of us have little or not interest in staying more than four years. It's silly. And remember, an Aussie child coming to Ireland can be educated in a state school for nothing. We in Ireland took endless amounts of **** from our government, and that is why we are here now, so yes it may achieve feck all, but we've learned the hard way that if you do nothing at all then - surprise surprise - nothing changes. Anyone who wants to support this, please sign. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiara Posted August 10, 2013 Author Share Posted August 10, 2013 And by the way, the biggest groups of 457 holders are the Indians, English and Irish....and last time I checked my English is pretty good... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dxboz Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 Aw Chiara that is such a shame for you but you hit the nail on the head when you put Indians first in your list of who comes on 457s. It's the non English speaking kids who are putting a massive drain on resources. Aussie kids going to Ireland can already speak English. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VERYSTORMY Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 Sorry, but as an ex 457 I agree with it. 457 holders are not residents. What they get is a lot more than they would in most other countries. It is arguable that they should not get healthcare as the reciprocal agreement was not designed for long term temp but for tourists. At the end of the day, the taxes someone pays in 4 years is not even close to covering things like education. It takes a lifetime of paying tax to cover this. Not 4 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiara Posted August 10, 2013 Author Share Posted August 10, 2013 We lived in the UAE for three years, and paid the equivalent there for schooling. Difference was that we paid no tax at all...that was the agreement! Here we paid $50k last year. I fail to understand how when we get PR (which we'll have to now) makes us suddenly affordable? They recruited us from Ireland, they clearly 'needed' my husband's skills, but half way through it they are now saying 'whoops, we've changed our minds, sorry but now you must pay us 16k!' very stormy that is bullshit!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
northernbird Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 Sorry, but as an ex 457 I agree with it. 457 holders are not residents. What they get is a lot more than they would in most other countries. It is arguable that they should not get healthcare as the reciprocal agreement was not designed for long term temp but for tourists. At the end of the day, the taxes someone pays in 4 years is not even close to covering things like education. It takes a lifetime of paying tax to cover this. Not 4 years. What a ridiculous argument. A PR comes over having made no contribution either, do you suggest we charge them? You say some ridiculous stuff here sometimes but this takes the bloody cake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy1 Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 (edited) We lived in the UAE for three years, and paid the equivalent there for schooling. Difference was that we paid no tax at all...that was the agreement! Here we paid $50k last year. I fail to understand how when we get PR (which we'll have to now) makes us suddenly affordable? They recruited us from Ireland, they clearly 'needed' my husband's skills, but half way through it they are now saying 'whoops, we've changed our minds, sorry but now you must pay us 16k!' very stormy that is bullshit!! You yourself said that you have no intention of staying more than four years, whereas a PR is making that commitment to stay (and a lifetime of taxes). I would say that is the difference in direct response to your comment. Education is expensive and really $4000 is fair for someone like yourself who does not want to live here permanently but who will be using the education system for four (I presume four,as you said 16k) children. Edited August 10, 2013 by Sammy1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cki2011 Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 Sorry, but as an ex 457 I agree with it. 457 holders are not residents. What they get is a lot more than they would in most other countries. It is arguable that they should not get healthcare as the reciprocal agreement was not designed for long term temp but for tourists. At the end of the day, the taxes someone pays in 4 years is not even close to covering things like education. It takes a lifetime of paying tax to cover this. Not 4 years. i totally agree with this.... You expect the OZ government to pay for the education of children for families who are coming to the country to earn good wages then move after 4 years which means they are not going to work there when they leave school and put anything back.... I can't see you getting much support with the petition even from 457 visa holders.... If I was in your position I would rethink my finances or think about getting a PR visa.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VERYSTORMY Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 Because, on a 457, the assumption is that you are coming for a max of 4 years. Maybe a lot less. The point of the visa is to fill a short term skills gap while an employer can recruit or train. If you are PR, the assumption is you are here for good. So will pay tax for decades not just a few years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
northernbird Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 Because, on a 457, the assumption is that you are coming for a max of 4 years. Maybe a lot less. The point of the visa is to fill a short term skills gap while an employer can recruit or train. If you are PR, the assumption is you are here for good. So will pay tax for decades not just a few years. so what about the ones that come over, stay long enough for citizenship and bugger off to whence they came. Shall we charge an exit tax, ask for a refund as they aren't sticking around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VERYSTORMY Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 so what about the ones that come over, stay long enough for citizenship and bugger off to whence they came. Shall we charge an exit tax, ask for a refund as they aren't sticking around. The difference is that governments work on assumptions. The assumption is that a PR visa is what it says on the tin. A 457 is a very temp visa. The principle has applied to uni education for ever. For the same reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cki2011 Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 so what about the ones that come over, stay long enough for citizenship and bugger off to whence they came. Shall we charge an exit tax, ask for a refund as they aren't sticking around. People do change their minds after coming and yes people do just stay long enough to become citizens but they had the PR which gave them the option.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
northernbird Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 The difference is that governments work on assumptions. The assumption is that a PR visa is what it says on the tin. A 457 is a very temp visa. The principle has applied to uni education for ever. For the same reason. To move the goalposts for people already here is disgusting. I am not adverse to charging on the whole but it should only apply to new visa applicants IMO not people already here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
northernbird Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 People do change their minds after coming and yes people do just stay long enough to become citizens but they had the PR which gave them the option.... Their kids have still used 4 years of education costs with no future contribution through, no different whatsoever to a 4 year temp visa IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiara Posted August 10, 2013 Author Share Posted August 10, 2013 We may have considered staying, but now we're under pressure to get PR or leave so we're considering our options. I still fail to see how we cost more on 457s than on PR visas.... the fact that it costs us more to live here than PRs or citizens already seems to make no difference to you...and the fact that the kids' school is pretty poor is beside the point... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mongrel Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 Their kids have still used 4 years of education costs with no future contribution through, no different whatsoever to a 4 year temp visa IMO. IMO NB if people leave after taking citizenship , this should be revoked if they haven't stayed for a period , can't see the reasons myself but I'm stopping lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 ..and the fact that the kids' school is pretty poor is beside the point... But it was ok when you were getting it for free? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
northernbird Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 I've signed your petition. I have lots of friends on 457 visas equally as outraged as you. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mongrel Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 so what about the ones that come over, stay long enough for citizenship and bugger off to whence they came. Shall we charge an exit tax, ask for a refund as they aren't sticking around. Totally on the money NB , my thoughts exactly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VERYSTORMY Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 It is simple math. The government assumes on PR you will pay tax for the rest of your working life here. Say twenty years. On a 457 you will pay tax for 4 years. It is as simple as that. If you paid $50k in tax for 4 years, that is $200k. But, if you were PR, they assume $1 mill in tax. It is the same logic as asking contributory parents to hand over a big wad of cash. There not going to pay in to the system long enough against outgoings. This isn't personal against you. It is just I can see the logic. I am sorry this has a negative impact on you. But, to me, the logic makes sense. Though I do think there is some demonization of the 457 and think it will get worse as it is an easy political target. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mongrel Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 I've shared your petition. I have lots of friends on 457 visas equally as outraged as you. Good luck. Tbh kid I think that they can claim it on tax , as another poster says as I've said for yonks Poms are a small percentage of migrants loads of 457s are Asian If, when abbot gets in he will lower the minimum salary for 457 so his mates can get cheap labour in Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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