Phoenix16 Posted August 9, 2013 Share Posted August 9, 2013 You used to be able to claim school fees if you earnt under $120,000 joint I Believe years ago, not sure if its still the case though ? Very proberbly though 457 visa holders would be excluded! I don't know that for sure just conjecture but wouldn't be surprised! A very helpful comment and thank you x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VERYSTORMY Posted August 9, 2013 Author Share Posted August 9, 2013 Not really sure what you are trying to prove with some of your posts to be honest. We all know about the 186 PR Visa that where there is a Transition Stream especially for 457 visa holders. I am saying that this is not unfair. Not that unexpected. Yes there isn a transition stream. But. That is actually completely different from the 457. Go and read. The 457 is designed for one thing only. To bring in skilled staff during a TEMPORARY shortage of that skill. The idea being that 4 years is long enough to train a local and send the 457 home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoenix16 Posted August 9, 2013 Share Posted August 9, 2013 I am saying that this is not unfair. Not that unexpected. Yes there isn a transition stream. But. That is actually completely different from the 457. Go and read. The 457 is designed for one thing only. To bring in skilled staff during a TEMPORARY shortage of that skill. The idea being that 4 years is long enough to train a local and send the 457 home. I would also say that the 457 is a great visa for OZ to get highly skilled and talented people into the country very quickly to start performing the skills they desperately desire and in return they have (in the past) offered very attractive terms to translate that visa to a PR status VERY quickly...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mongrel Posted August 9, 2013 Share Posted August 9, 2013 I would also say that the 457 is a great visa for OZ to get highly skilled and talented people into the country very quickly to start performing the skills they desperately desire and in return they have (in the past) offered very attractive terms to translate that visa to a PR status VERY quickly...... Talk shite it's for employers to pay less Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoenix16 Posted August 9, 2013 Share Posted August 9, 2013 Talk shite it's for employers to pay less Totally disagree, you're talking cheap labour I'm talking a totally different scenario, I do agree 457 should be stopped to prevent slave labour entering the country and undermining real employment for Australians, I think we're on different wave lengths in this argument.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest26012 Posted August 9, 2013 Share Posted August 9, 2013 I would also say that the 457 is a great visa for OZ to get highly skilled and talented people into the country very quickly to start performing the skills they desperately desire and in return they have (in the past) offered very attractive terms to translate that visa to a PR status VERY quickly...... They have, in the past Jessie but times are changing? I'm on the fence with this one. The 457 is a very risky visa at this present time and not one I would recommend to anyone. It is an opportunity for employers to recruit temporarily until they can fill that role permanently. With the downturn in the economy I fear that the temporary status of the visa will be just that, temporary. It worked for us, but that was a long time ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mongrel Posted August 9, 2013 Share Posted August 9, 2013 Totally disagree, you're talking cheap labour I'm talking a totally different scenario, I do agree 457 should be stopped to prevent slave labour entering the country and undermining real employment for Australians, I think we're on different wave lengths in this argument.... Disagree , I know as fact 457s are on salaries under what an Australian would work for , they might be equivocal to the legal criteria but they would not get an equal Aussie to do it . Plus all 457s are not Brits the majority are Asian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoenix16 Posted August 9, 2013 Share Posted August 9, 2013 They have, in the past Jessie but times are changing? I'm on the fence with this one. The 457 is a very risky visa at this present time and not one I would recommend to anyone. It is an opportunity for employers to recruit temporarily until they can fill that role permanently. With the downturn in the economy I fear that the temporary status of the visa will be just that, temporary. It worked for us, but that was a long time ago. I really do agree with you, we also came here when the climate was thriving, it was a good time and I think those days are gone, we were lucky, we were niaive, it all worked out, but even I've seen the slow but sure shift in the economy, 457's were 10 a penny when we arrived, My hubby brought all his 'good guys' with him but now the company wouldn't even entertain a 457 and yet 2 years ago it was the norm, there is definitely a shift in the economic climate here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoenix16 Posted August 9, 2013 Share Posted August 9, 2013 Disagree , I know as fact 457s are on salaries under what an Australian would work for , they might be equivocal to the legal criteria but they would not get an equal Aussie to do it . Plus all 457s are not Brits the majority are Asian @ I agree with you in thwt if you came here on the basic stipulated salary required to get a visa then you're doomed. I just don't have the knowledge and understanding of what happens at that level, I can imagine though and it upsets me very much... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tickled Pink Posted August 9, 2013 Share Posted August 9, 2013 I would also say that the 457 is a great visa for OZ to get highly skilled and talented people into the country very quickly to start performing the skills they desperately desire and in return they have (in the past) offered very attractive terms to translate that visa to a PR status VERY quickly...... Thats what happened with us, we were PR inside 1 year... the 457 was a means for speedy arrival. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tickled Pink Posted August 9, 2013 Share Posted August 9, 2013 Disagree , I know as fact 457s are on salaries under what an Australian would work for , they might be equivocal to the legal criteria but they would not get an equal Aussie to do it . Plus all 457s are not Brits the majority are Asian You can't say you know this for a fact as you don't know everyone on a 457! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VERYSTORMY Posted August 9, 2013 Author Share Posted August 9, 2013 Disagree , I know as fact 457s are on salaries under what an Australian would work for , they might be equivocal to the legal criteria but they would not get an equal Aussie to do it . Plus all 457s are not Brits the majority are Asian That is not my experience of 457. In fact, I think all of them have been paid more than Australian colleagues as a lot of Oz mining companies have a preference for Brit explorers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quoll Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 That is not my experience of 457. In fact, I think all of them have been paid more than Australian colleagues as a lot of Oz mining companies have a preference for Brit explorers. Must say that most of the 457 visa holders I have met have basically been screwed over by their employers with wages well under the local market! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
northernbird Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 That is not my experience of 457. In fact, I think all of them have been paid more than Australian colleagues as a lot of Oz mining companies have a preference for Brit explorers. Mine neither. Certainly all the oil and gas people that came over at the same time as we did were on significantly more than the local staff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramot Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 My daughter in Sydney on 457 visa certainly wasn't paid less than her contemporaries and non of her friends have ever complained of being screwed by their employers. I'm sure some are, but perhaps it depends on your skill level? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc 53 Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 No it is a visa for temp employment only. As such the rules can be changed anytime. If folk thought it a quick and cheap way to get into OZ, then really no ones fault but there's. As such I don't see why education be provided free. A number could have come on more permanent visa arrangements but chose 457 with little thought of possible consequences. Come any downturn in the economy conditions for temps were bound to change. If you really believe that you are shockingly insular. the 457 visa is an arrangement between the state, an employer and the applicant. Each has obligations that are identified at the outset. The employer offers employment, transport fares, shipping costs and commits to return travel expenses in case of relationship breakdown with the applicant. In return the employer wants a business asset that is fit for immediate purpose in terms of education, but more importantly experience. Remember the experience bit, I will be referring back to this later. The applicant commits to provide the education, experience do a good job, not break the law and pay taxes. In addition, take out health care etc. The state commits to provide startle services etc, blah, blah. Now, that experience bit is the key here. You simply cannot turn out an experienced technician, tradesman, engineer, doctor, police officer etc from a training course. That is what the 457 is geared around, plugging gaps in a market that requires experience. At the moment Oz is in a downturn. Rightly so, it is not competitive, houses cost waaaaaaaay too much and the cost of living is adversely affecting most people. Add to this the cost of child care in a state school where the applicant is already taxed to the eyes, yet also has to pay extra for private health, and many will leave, even more will not come. Remembering that a large number of 457 guys work in nasty mining type places, what will happen when Oz is not in a downturn? The mines, any company in fact will have to make choices: - pay more for locals in a highly competitive market. Nope, this will drive up costs. - fly in single applicants with no kids usually means younger, less experience. This opens the door to cheap labour by the plane load from India etc. - Advertise for experienced applicants with kids willing to pay tax, extra insurance for health and now state education. I would hope that anyone with an ounce of common dog would turn there nose up at this! In short this warping of pre-existing agreements will damage Oz and its economy for a long time. BTW I am a permanent resident (I have never trusted employers) earn way above the average wage and am putting my kid into private school. I pray to god she goes to university in Europe! I heard a phrase recently "you cannot polish a turd but you can roll it in glitter". The Australian education system is like the turd, sans glitter. It is awful, truly awful, and I mean at all levels. To think people now pay fees at university for such a poor product/service makes me want to weep. I do not agree with what the state is doing. But if you are to come to Oz make sure: -you can afford the house - you can afford the food - you can afford private school regards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 You can't say you know this for a fact as you don't know everyone on a 457! No one has to know everyone with a 457 to know that this visa was being systematically abused. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MicheleW Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 I seriously don't understand the comments about Australian education being rubbish at all levels and the advise to send your kids to a private school. Where do people think that the majority of teachers in private schools were educated - the Australian school system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Que Sera Sera Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 I seriously don't understand the comments about Australian education being rubbish at all levels and the advise to send your kids to a private school. Where do people think that the majority of teachers in private schools were educated - the Australian school system. And Doctors, Scientists etc etc etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VERYSTORMY Posted August 11, 2013 Author Share Posted August 11, 2013 I seriously don't understand the comments about Australian education being rubbish at all levels and the advise to send your kids to a private school. Where do people think that the majority of teachers in private schools were educated - the Australian school system. I don't know anything about school education as we don't have children. But, the quality of undergrad education is dire. Or at least that is what I have seen in my own discipline. I have recruited a number of Oz new grads and they have all been at the equivalent standard of a first year grad from a UK uni. In fact, a number I would say would not not pass first year and we mainly recruited from the top ranking depts in Oz - UWA and CODES. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peach Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 In fact, a number I would say would not not pass first year and we mainly recruited from the top ranking depts in Oz - UWA and CODES. But there again, you would say that. As far as I can tell there isn't a single thing about Australia that you haven't found cause to moan about. From the food, construction, dog paths, people and now education system.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johndoe Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 Remind me why I just took a break :rolleyes: To hear some talk, you would think that Australia would be on it's heels if they only employed those grads, from all disciplines, that come out of Oz education and rise to be experts in their fields.....................or is it the "Euro educated" that have got Oz to where it is today? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VERYSTORMY Posted August 11, 2013 Author Share Posted August 11, 2013 But there again, you would say that. As far as I can tell there isn't a single thing about Australia that you haven't found cause to moan about. From the food, construction, dog paths, people and now education system.... But it doesn't stop it being true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newjez Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 (edited) But it doesn't stop it being true. To be fair, when looking at around 4% unemployment, which is technically full employment, you may not have been looking at the pick of the crop. A donkey with a degree could have got a position. People don't seem to understand what is going on here. The mining boom is slowing. Unemployment is starting to rise. The govt doesn't want any more immigrants - and so they are making it harder for you to come. End of story. Petitions to end the school fees are a nonsense. The govt knows what it is doing. It is trying to discourage immigration. States only have limited powers, so it is using what powers it has. You will probably see the press and public opinion turning against immigration in the very near future, under the title - they are stealing our jobs. It couldn't have been plainer if they had booked the front page and printed 'Go Home Johnny Foreigner' Edited August 11, 2013 by newjez Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 To be fair, when looking at around 4% unemployment, which is technically full employment, you may not have been looking at the pick of the crop. A donkey with a degree could have got a position. People don't seem to understand what is going on here. The mining boom is slowing. Unemployment is starting to rise. The govt doesn't want any more immigrants - and so they are making it harder for you to come. End of story. Petitions to end the school fees are a nonsense. The govt knows what it is doing. It is trying to discourage immigration. States only have limited powers, so it is using what powers it has. You will probably see the press and public opinion turning against immigration in the very near future, under the title - they are stealing our jobs. It couldn't have been plainer if they had booked the front page and printed 'Go Home Johnny Foreigner' If that was the case, the government would not be maintaining the record rates of around 200,000 immigrants a year. No they are looking at all ways and means to raise revenue. Besides the government has vested interests in maintaining and growing the over inflated housing market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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