jomax1991 Posted June 26, 2013 Share Posted June 26, 2013 Hi everyone.. About 6-7 years ago, I fell into the wrong crowd at secondary school. I was caught stealing a pair of earrings and subsequently cautioned by the police, I paid a fine and the case was settled. A short while after, when walking home from school, I was attacked by another girl from my school, I retaliated and managed to push her off me. 2 days later I was arrested and cautioned regarding ABH, even though the other girl started it, the policeman who interviewed me said I looked harmless but had to caution me anyway. Anyway, I'm now 21, almost 22, and am worried that these 2 cautions may affect my application for a WHV. Although the visa asked you whether you have ever been convicted, I am unsure whether the cautions count under this heading. Does anyone know if these cautions may affect my visa application? I'm really worried they will, I've been planning this trip for ages and will be gutted if I don't get accepted. Do you think I should offer to attach some character references? I've never stolen or been in a fight since those 2 occasions, and have gone on to earn a Psychology undergraduate degree, and held down a number of jobs, so I was hoping if I explained that then they may see I have a 'good character' and grant me a visa. Anyone have any ideas or suggestions? Thanks for reading, I'll be grateful for any advice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ukchris Posted June 26, 2013 Share Posted June 26, 2013 I wouldn't worry about that if i was you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lebourvellec Posted June 26, 2013 Share Posted June 26, 2013 Did these things happen when you were under 16?? Im not sure if any of these would show up in Police Report. It wont stop you getting a visa, but you may be asked to submit police report, and could take a bit longer. There are some other threads on same subject in the WHV section. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MovingtoTasmania Posted June 26, 2013 Share Posted June 26, 2013 Hi everyone.. About 6-7 years ago, I fell into the wrong crowd at secondary school. I was caught stealing a pair of earrings and subsequently cautioned by the police, I paid a fine and the case was settled. A short while after, when walking home from school, I was attacked by another girl from my school, I retaliated and managed to push her off me. 2 days later I was arrested and cautioned regarding ABH, even though the other girl started it, the policeman who interviewed me said I looked harmless but had to caution me anyway. Anyway, I'm now 21, almost 22, and am worried that these 2 cautions may affect my application for a WHV. Although the visa asked you whether you have ever been convicted, I am unsure whether the cautions count under this heading. Does anyone know if these cautions may affect my visa application? I'm really worried they will, I've been planning this trip for ages and will be gutted if I don't get accepted. Do you think I should offer to attach some character references? I've never stolen or been in a fight since those 2 occasions, and have gone on to earn a Psychology undergraduate degree, and held down a number of jobs, so I was hoping if I explained that then they may see I have a 'good character' and grant me a visa. Anyone have any ideas or suggestions? Thanks for reading, I'll be grateful for any advice! If you were under 18, these "convictions" (which cautions are, as to receive a caution, you have to admit to the "wrongdoing"), are spent as they will have been "scrubbed" at 18 since you were a juvenile and weren't detained at HMP (Her Maj's Pleasure). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jomax1991 Posted June 26, 2013 Author Share Posted June 26, 2013 Thank you for your replies! I think I was 15 when I got the ABH caution, but may have been 16 when I got the shoplifting caution. I had to have a CRB check 2 years ago when I was working with brain-damaged people, and it came back clear... but apparently you have to mention cautions even if they do not show on the CRB. So do you recommend that I do not mention the cautions at all? Or that I declare them and explain that I was young and stupid, etc? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MovingtoTasmania Posted June 26, 2013 Share Posted June 26, 2013 (edited) Thank you for your replies!I think I was 15 when I got the ABH caution, but may have been 16 when I got the shoplifting caution. I had to have a CRB check 2 years ago when I was working with brain-damaged people, and it came back clear... but apparently you have to mention cautions even if they do not show on the CRB. So do you recommend that I do not mention the cautions at all? Or that I declare them and explain that I was young and stupid, etc? There's no point as you were under 18, so immediately on your 18th birthday, your record is wiped. I think you will be opening a can of worms for no reason. As you say, you were stupid, but you don't need to pay for stupidity for the rest of your life. You learn from it and move on. Put it from your mind now and forget about it because if these were to show up, then you would have a good case against the Police as the law is very clear about juveniles and spent convictions. These cautions will never ever show up, even if you had to have an enhanced CRB check with POVA and POCA checks and DBS. Stop stressing x I would also mention to you that the caution disclosure is for those cautions that you have received as an adult, not as a juvenile. Unless you are incarcerated as a juvenile and still incarcerated on your 18th birthday then there will be no trace of any juvenile delinquency anywhere. Edited June 26, 2013 by MovingtoTasmania Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jomax1991 Posted June 26, 2013 Author Share Posted June 26, 2013 Ok, thank you for reassuring me that it will be alright! :smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MovingtoTasmania Posted June 26, 2013 Share Posted June 26, 2013 Ok, thank you for reassuring me that it will be alright! :smile: You're more than welcome! Sorry for being bossy about the stressing, it's the mum in me coming out! Just get your visa and enjoy yourself my dear x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxlornaxx Posted June 26, 2013 Share Posted June 26, 2013 You should mention it anyway, my husband was under eighteen (26 now) and similar to you received 2 cautions on 2 separate occasions and they showed up so I don't know about them being 'wiped'...they have come up on CRBs but never been an issue as hes always been honest, we mentioned them when applying for a 457 visa and they asked for further details from him, he just gave dates as accurate as he could and short letter detailing the circumstances surrounding it and it was fine, visa granted. Good luck, I can't see it causing problems for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MovingtoTasmania Posted June 26, 2013 Share Posted June 26, 2013 You should mention it anyway, my husband was under eighteen (26 now) and similar to you received 2 cautions on 2 separate occasions and they showed up so I don't know about them being 'wiped'...they have come up on CRBs but never been an issue as hes always been honest, we mentioned them when applying for a 457 visa and they asked for further details from him, he just gave dates as accurate as he could and short letter detailing the circumstances surrounding it and it was fine, visa granted. Good luck, I can't see it causing problems for you. I'm not sure why your husband's showed up. [h=3]Do I get a second chance?[/h]To help people put their convictions behind them there is a rehabilitation period from the time of conviction. After this period has expired, certain criminal convictions are considered “spent” and can be ignored. Rehabilitation periods are as follows: • If you had a prison sentence of six months, the rehabilitation period lasts seven years if you were 18 or over when convicted, and three and a half years if you were under 18. • If the prison sentence was between six months and two and a half years, the rehabilitation period lasts 10 years if you were aged 18 or over when convicted and five years if you were under 18 years. • If you got a fine, probation, compensation order, community service, combination order or curfew order, the rehabilitation period lasts five years if you were over 18 and two and a half years if you were under 18. • If you got an absolute discharge the rehabilitation period lasts six months. • For other sentences there are variations in how long the rehabilitation period lasts. There are also variations for motoring offences. http://www.brightknowledge.org/knowledge-bank/practical-advice/criminal-records-the-facts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smivel Posted June 26, 2013 Share Posted June 26, 2013 Just because something is spent doesn't mean it won't show up. I have 2 things on my record from being under 16 which are both spent and both showed up on a CRB check. Different offences have different periods of staying on your record, depending on how severe the offence is and the age when it was committed. For the WHV though I put them both down on the online application, with rough dates and what the offence was. The visa was granted 5 days later with no questions asked by them so I wouldn't worry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smivel Posted June 26, 2013 Share Posted June 26, 2013 Also, one of mine is for possession of cannabis and I would imagine drug things are looked at more seriously than other offences (other than rape, murder etc) so I think you should be OK. Just be honest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flatpack Posted June 26, 2013 Share Posted June 26, 2013 The age that your convictions get "wiped" in the UK is 17 not 18 as far as my brother in law defence solicitor told me. A caution is "an admission of guilt" and NOT a conviction. If you are asked if you have any convictions you can quite truthfully answer "no". However a caution will still show up on a criminal record check, I know this as I have a caution myself from 2004 and it has shown up on a police records check. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxlornaxx Posted June 26, 2013 Share Posted June 26, 2013 Well they are considered spent and has never been a reason for him being refused a job, visa etc but that doesn't mean it hasn't shown up, I think it's right that they do show up, can be quite important in assessing risk n suitability for certain jobs x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_shel Posted June 26, 2013 Share Posted June 26, 2013 (edited) There's no point as you were under 18, so immediately on your 18th birthday, your record is wiped. I think you will be opening a can of worms for no reason. As you say, you were stupid, but you don't need to pay for stupidity for the rest of your life. You learn from it and move on. Put it from your mind now and forget about it because if these were to show up, then you would have a good case against the Police as the law is very clear about juveniles and spent convictions. These cautions will never ever show up, even if you had to have an enhanced CRB check with POVA and POCA checks and DBS. Stop stressing x I would also mention to you that the caution disclosure is for those cautions that you have received as an adult, not as a juvenile. Unless you are incarcerated as a juvenile and still incarcerated on your 18th birthday then there will be no trace of any juvenile delinquency anywhere. That is not true. I have both cautions and convictions pre 17 all of which show up in CRB, DBS and the ACPO check needed for migration. Nothing is actually wiped from your record but there are points at which you no longer have to declare them. For instance if applying for a standard DBS or just a question on a housing or job application etc in the UK if the post does not require an enhanced DBS check or specifically asks for spent convictions such as certain university course etc. http://www.nacro.org.uk/data/files/nacro-2007021302-65.pdf http://www.nacro.org.uk/what-we-do/resettlement-advice-service/reforms-to-the-rehabilitation-of-offenders-act/ Australian migration Law has nothing to do with the UK Rehabilitation of Offenders Act and things must be declared as ACPO do not follow the rehabilitation of offenders act in disclosing your convictions as agreed by you when applying to them. That said though dont worry about it at all. I have 6 offences from 13 to 16 and got my spouse visa just fine. Edited June 26, 2013 by _shel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brisbec Posted June 26, 2013 Share Posted June 26, 2013 The above reply is correct. Nothing is ever wiped. You may, under certain circumstances ask for some offences to be "weeded" out of your history, but these are exceptional and very rarely happen. The Immigration ACPO certificate will show everything and as mentioned above has absolutely nothing to do with the Rehabilitation of offenders Act. Best be honest. I'm sure you'll be fine :cute: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MovingtoTasmania Posted June 26, 2013 Share Posted June 26, 2013 That is not true. I have both cautions and convictions pre 17 all of which show up in CRB, DBS and the ACPO check needed for migration. Nothing is actually wiped from your record but there are points at which you no longer have to declare them. For instance if applying for a standard DBS or just a question on a housing or job application etc in the UK if the post does not require an enhanced DBS check or specifically asks for spent convictions such as certain university course etc. http://www.nacro.org.uk/data/files/nacro-2007021302-65.pdf http://www.nacro.org.uk/what-we-do/resettlement-advice-service/reforms-to-the-rehabilitation-of-offenders-act/ Australian migration Law has nothing to do with the UK Rehabilitation of Offenders Act and things must be declared as ACPO do not follow the rehabilitation of offenders act in disclosing your convictions as agreed by you when applying to them. That said though dont worry about it at all. I have 6 offences from 13 to 16 and got my spouse visa just fine. Odd that it won't show up on the Enhanced Disclosure (which OP must have had done as part of POVA as she mentioned working with brain damaged adults) and yet it shows up for migration purposes. As you say, must be different because of the different purposes. Shame though that a mistake as a child, follows you forever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flatpack Posted June 26, 2013 Share Posted June 26, 2013 I applied for an ACPO and was surprised to see a caution from 2004 but not 2 convictions from cica 1992. Both convictions were for very minor offences, breaking a window and swearing on public transport but neither are on. Any one shed light on that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smivel Posted June 26, 2013 Share Posted June 26, 2013 (edited) Flatpack, from what I read about the ACPO check things will not show up if they have been "downgraded" (i think they call it that), depending on which of their categories your offence is in (A B or C). So say it takes 10 years for your 1992 offence to clear, and you commit no more offences in that time it will not show on the ACPO check, so your offence from 1992 would of gone in 2002. If you commit another offence in that time, say one that takes 5 years to clear, it resets the clock on the ten year offence and both clear after the ten years. Hope that makes sense. I looked into this for myself and mine have got another 2 years till they are both cleared. Edited June 26, 2013 by smivel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_shel Posted June 26, 2013 Share Posted June 26, 2013 What was the sentence? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jomax1991 Posted June 26, 2013 Author Share Posted June 26, 2013 Just because something is spent doesn't mean it won't show up. I have 2 things on my record from being under 16 which are both spent and both showed up on a CRB check. Different offences have different periods of staying on your record, depending on how severe the offence is and the age when it was committed. For the WHV though I put them both down on the online application, with rough dates and what the offence was. The visa was granted 5 days later with no questions asked by them so I wouldn't worry. That's reassuring! Did you reply for it quite recently then? I really want to be able to write them a letter or something explaining the incidents, like I don't want them to look at it and read 'cautioned for ABH and theft' and write me off straight away without an explanation. Anyone know if this would be possible/if they would read it? Thanks for the replies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghostgirl Posted June 27, 2013 Share Posted June 27, 2013 I had dealing & possession of a class B drug on my record, but since I was under 16 at the time it has never caused me a problem & my WHV got approved the day after I applied for it x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smivel Posted June 27, 2013 Share Posted June 27, 2013 Yeah it was about 2/3 weeks ago when I applied/got approved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jomax1991 Posted June 30, 2013 Author Share Posted June 30, 2013 Thank you again for the replies! I just have one final question ..... I am planning on applying some time within the next month. I was going to do an online application, and where it gives you the box to explain what offenses you've been arrested for, was going to mention the theft and ABH, then attach a document with a letter explaining the circumstances leading to the incidents, how out of character they are, how they will not be re-enacted etc. Does this sound like the about-right thing to do? I just have no idea about visa's and nor does anyone I know! Also, does everyone have to send them an ACPO certificate, or is that only if they ask for it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smivel Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 I wouldn't bother attaching a letter at first, on my application I just put the offences and rough date, as in Sept 2001: Possession of class B drug, Caution Aug 2005: Criminal Damage No point telling them anything they aren't asking for yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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