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simmo

Is it wrong to warn people about expectations of Oz

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Nothing wrong with warnings if their correct. But when the warnings are just from a single persons bad experience in Australia, or the selected few on here that only have a anti oz agenda and feel its their duty in life to warn everyone of Australia then it should be takin with a grain of salt.

I think a few on here have ruined this forum( in my time of viewing it) . Noticed now that the balanced Aussies and poms here in oz that could be very helpful have disappeared now. This forum needs more people like Johndoe for example. People that know poms and australians here with good knowledge. It's a shame as its only the haters that seem to have a voice on here now. If something doesnt match the views on things , they ruin a thread. Not a great place for future immigrants to get reliable info.

I know so many British families here from my family, parents social group, work colleagues and friends I've met over the years. I can honestly say I haven't seen struggle , whinging, comparisons ect nothing like I see on here. I showed a bloke this forum at work, he's from Leeds . He looked at it that night and couldn't believe what he seen written on here. Him and his wife had a good laugh at British people's expense and he's British. Been here 18 months.

Moral is dont believe everything you read. Likewise for both countries.

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OK.. So to summarise: Its OK to warn people about unrealistic expectations of Australia as long as you follow "the rules".

 

 

  1. You must use empirical data
  2. You must NEVER speak in "general" terms, thats a big no no
  3. Criticisms must be structured
  4. All views are invalid unless you have acclimatised to the heat.???
  5. You must not post to generate a "reaction", reactions are bad so it seems.:err:
  6. You must always acknowledge that your experience, likes, dislikes, needs, and outlook on life may not be be the same for everyone else.
  7. ....... I'll leave it at that.

 

But it seems that there is a lot of rules and regulations on posting opinions on here, reading some of the posts it comes across(to me that is) that some of the people happy in aus seem to think that folk with a not so rosey picture of the place are trying to insult them personally and I don't think this is the case. Maybe if you just took it with a pinch of salt instead of raising to it and getting so defensive the atmosphere here wouldn't be so edgy. If you love your life and where you live it shouldn't bother you about what others think of it.

It's all in the mind:goat:

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My experience is that the vast majority of poms Ive encountered through work and play have carved out very happy lives here and are not contemplating a return to the UK. A good portion have never been back, others go back semi regularly. I don't hear a lot of whinging about things being bad, to the contrary I often hear people saying how good we have it here, thats from well established migrants as well as newer ones. I think we need to keep a sense of perspective here and realise that polarised views will occur and just accept it. I think theres most definitely a place for returness on the forum as it helps give the other side of the migration story. Lets also not forget that ping ponging is a very common phenomena and many who go back and criticise what they left do return, and vice versa!

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My experience of being in the UK jobs market, is now two years old. But my view of how it was post-2007, is pretty grim - ever more offshoring, graduate recruitment being cancelled, pay freezes & cuts, council cuts to services, people I care about losing their jobs and struggling to find work. It wouldn't say immigration into the UK was a big factor, but it was frustrating to read about how some were successfully milking the system.

 

Six years on from the GFC I don't think much has improved, but I'm no longer part of that system and don't have direct sight of it. And I sincerely can't see where the recovery will come from in the UK. In my industry (IT) I don't think there is hope.

 

So in all, if someone posted bagging the UK I wouldn't feel a need to defend it, but it would somewhat reflect my experience and feeling. But presently in Australia, I can see stormy waters ahead - but for me, things are pretty good here.

 

I can only speak for my industry and most of my friends in Oz work in the same industry.

 

Grad recruitment is close to zero - which in an industry that has an average age in the 50's is very stupid

Everyone is moving offshore - hence why i am in Tanzanaia on a fifo from Perth

Pay freezes are now normal and a mate in QLD has just had to accept a big (20%) reduction in pay along with his entire team in order to prevent more redundancies

There have been and going to be a lot more redundancies across the industry

Lots of people i care about - close friends, have lost their jobs and cant find others or can only get the odd day here and there

Not seeing cuts to council services yet. But, as the economy slows and less tax coming in, i expect to. Am seeing around where i live a number of reposessed houses coming on the maket.

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No of course theres nothing wrong with imparting some of your experiences onto new members and potential migrants, as others have said it gives food for thought. I think there lies a danger here in not crediting people with enough intelligence. Most people who emigrate are surely educated enough ( hopefully) to appreciate that its not necessarily the answer to ALL your dreams and that there are downsides to living here. Just as anyone watching 'escape to the country ' appreciates that the beautiful remote rural paradise is just a 'part' of the 'dream' We all have dreams and where it goes a bit sour for me is when people, clearly excited and full of hope get the stuffing knocked out of them by very black and white negative ideas. Like 'you WILL struggle to live or find a decent home on (insert various amounts) Or the 'theres more to life than beaches and barbies etc' As I say credit people with enough intelligence to realise those things for themselves. I assert that 'most' or 'many' expats expect better weather, enhanced leisure time and activities and an altogether satisfactory experience..and many achieve it. It is quite galling to be doubted and mocked on your positive experience as suggested by another poster.

 

 

Brilliant post totally agree, think most people are open minded to how life will be in Aus anyway but once you get reading plenty of different takes good or bad stories & opinions you get an even better hopefully more realistic prospective of Oz, but for some to treat us like were stupid... It's just plain ignorance, I just them with a pinch of salt, were all different & we'll all soon enough find out for ourselves whether Oz is for us for a few years or for longer..


Ellen x

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Brilliant post totally agree, think most people are open minded to how life will be in Aus anyway but once you get reading plenty of different takes good or bad stories & opinions you get an even better hopefully more realistic prospective of Oz, but for some to treat us like were stupid... It's just plain ignorance, I just them with a pinch of salt, were all different & we'll all soon enough find out for ourselves whether Oz is for us for a few years or for longer..

 

Nobody thinks anyone who loves their life in Aus is stupid!!!!!!!

OMG!!!!

 

sorry:wubclub:

Edited by simmo

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Guest Guest26012

I don't warn people about their expectations of oz, I merely give my opinion. It's up to the reader to take on board the info from people who actually love here. I understand that some opinions are different from mine and that's fine, each to their own. But as we live here and are happy I hope my opinions are fair.

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Nobody thinks anyone who loves their life in Aus is stupid!!!!!!!

OMG!!!!

 

sorry:wubclub:

 

I'm not in Aus myself!!! & I've not said people in oz are stupid! I'm saying the way some people treat members on here who are asking for advice treat them like there stupid


Ellen x

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No Simmo thats not what she meant, I think the poster is referring to how when you post about being excited and how youre expecting/hoping for some fab times in Oz someone coming along and pishing on their parade for want of a better term and assuming because they are full of hope that the hope and anticipation is misguided due to things not being 'all that' in oz when clearly the vast majority have a reasonable idea of what to expect

Edited by HappyHeart

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I don't warn people about their expectations of oz, I merely give my opinion. It's up to the reader to take on board the info from people who actually love here. I understand that some opinions are different from mine and that's fine, each to their own. But as we live here and are happy I hope my opinions are fair.

Of course they're fair - they're yours..

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No Simmo thats not what she meant, I think the poster is referring to how when you post about being excited and how youre expecting/hoping for some fab times in Oz someone coming along and pishing on their parade for want of a better term and assuming because they are full of hope that the hope and anticipation is misguided due to things not being 'all that' in oz when clearly the vast majority have a reasonable idea of what to expect

I must admit some of the advice comes accross as quite glib and more sensitivity wouldn't go amiss in both directions.

The thing is though a lot of people have been spoon fed a lot of misinformation on job prospects costs of living ect then got there and felt completely underwhelmed and conned. TBH i don't see much p!ssing on parades more of a heads up, then maybe some over defensiveness, then a row starts..

I read a post recently about a private group like the MBTTUK one for those very happy in Aus? maybe this would be a good idea for when people just want to hear good things about australia which is fine IMO.

Edited by simmo
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Guest

As much as I enjoy taking the p*ss out of Australia, I'd be horrified if my jibes put anybody off coming here. That said, I very much doubt that there are readers back in Britain having ernest conversations along the lines of "but love, there's some bloke in South Melbourne who described the place as "over-priced mediocrity," what do you reckon, should we cancel the flights?"

 

I think it's easy to see the negative stuff and fly into a panic. After all, this is moving countries we're talking about here, not choosing a new internet provider or a car insurer. It's natural to panic when we see views contrary to what we'd hope to read. But, it's important to read the forums in depth and therefore get a sense of the regular posters and where they're coming from. That way, prospective migrants can cut through the respective agendas and personal feuds on here and weigh up the useful information which is available to them.

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I can only speak for my industry and most of my friends in Oz work in the same industry.

 

Grad recruitment is close to zero - which in an industry that has an average age in the 50's is very stupid

Everyone is moving offshore - hence why i am in Tanzanaia on a fifo from Perth

Pay freezes are now normal and a mate in QLD has just had to accept a big (20%) reduction in pay along with his entire team in order to prevent more redundancies

There have been and going to be a lot more redundancies across the industry

Lots of people i care about - close friends, have lost their jobs and cant find others or can only get the odd day here and there

Not seeing cuts to council services yet. But, as the economy slows and less tax coming in, i expect to. Am seeing around where i live a number of reposessed houses coming on the maket.

 

I live in Canberra - the swamp - where the government thankfully prevents offshoring by outsourcers.. Bumpy road ahead with the election, but otherwise things are on an even keel.

 

Don't really understand why you'd want to pick my post apart? It was factual, in response to a question and all about my experiences in the UK. It's great that you're sharing, but I made no reference to mining in QLD?

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Guest guest76088

1. This is a specialist forum.

2. Everyone on it has an interest in Australia and its relationship to UK

3. Due to the nature of the forum everyone is equally-able to post a view or account

4. People are more likely to post if they have an extreme view, account or grievance

5. The history of users' posting and the quantity and content of their previous contributions is available if you can be bothered to look at it

6. The topic of discussion is likely to have been covered many times before and is available if you can be bothered to look at it for corroboration

 

Caution should be exercised by the reader as to misinformation, hidden agendas, entrenched positions, stupid, mischief-making, inflammatory posting and plain lies and deceit.

All of this can be found on online fora.

 

In the long run equilibrium and efficiency in the discussion is usually achieved by other contributors opposing the view or questioning the facts. However this requires a high volume of relevant posts on the topic.

 

The end result is a lot of data which requires evaluation. A problem comes with stupid people expressing opinion as fact inferred simply from their own single experience.. To ask for evidence in response usually leads to a cut-and-paste fest and often clouds the issue further.

 

So in answer to your question, all opinions and views should be aired but critically evaluated.

 

BigD

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Son I've been out running in 40C+, nd 36 is a warm day, nothing more. I'd take your carton but it'd be taking candy from a baby.
Running in 40c+?Thats bordering on insane!People drop dead doing stuff like that!Well you know what they say Wendee?Mad dogs and englishmen!:laugh:

When the power of love overcomes the love of power,the world will know peace ~ Jimi Hendrix

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I live in Canberra - the swamp - where the government thankfully prevents offshoring by outsourcers.. Bumpy road ahead with the election, but otherwise things are on an even keel.

 

Don't really understand why you'd want to pick my post apart? It was factual, in response to a question and all about my experiences in the UK. It's great that you're sharing, but I made no reference to mining in QLD?

 

Well, to be pedantic, it was your experiences/opinion more than factual.

 

I would also say it wasn't really answering the question, not straight in the way the question was asked, although it was straightforward to assume an answer to the question. The answer being, of course, that no, you wouldn't react to such a post about the UK even though you would react to a post about Oz giving someone else's view of reality.

 

None of this is a drama - it's all about individuals' points of view and they're all different. But I do wonder why you picked out the previous post (the Red Rose one) as being particularly objectionable for stating a "reality" which you clearly think is incorrect. It comes across as if you think you react to posts which are clearly incorrect or wrong, when the truth is they're just ones you don't agree with. Again not a drama, just don't make out it's anything higher than that I would suggest.

 

I also note you "liked" the very next post, which did precisely what one of mine yesterday did (purport to be balanced but actually not be) and to which you took great exception. You're no better than the rest of us, you react to posts you don't agree with

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You're no better than the rest of us, you react to posts you don't agree with

 

I certainly never said that I was better than anyone. Am trying my best to not react. In my last incarnation I made it a principle to not post in CTF and MBTTUK, once I did I became part of the fight too. That's happening again sadly. I really admire the likes of Pablo, Fleabo and M2M that are able to rise above / ignore it. :wubclub:

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found Aus about 10% cheaper on most things even before you negotiate the usual discount.

 

Question (from a newbie to Australia): Can you negotiate prices in big stores eg on fridges and freezers, and is that common practice, or is it just in small local stores? Have to buy a new fridge/freezer soon and it would be helpful to know of other's experiences.

 

Thanks


If you are looking for help applying to a job, writing a CV, cover letter or answering selection criteria, contact the experts at www.fremantlehr.com.au.

Based in Perth and helping clients worldwide to get the job they want in the company they want.

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Guest Guest26012
Question (from a newbie to Australia): Can you negotiate prices in big stores eg on fridges and freezers, and is that common practice, or is it just in small local stores? Have to buy a new fridge/freezer soon and it would be helpful to know of other's experiences.

 

Thanks

 

​You can, we've done it lots of times!

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Question (from a newbie to Australia): Can you negotiate prices in big stores eg on fridges and freezers, and is that common practice, or is it just in small local stores? Have to buy a new fridge/freezer soon and it would be helpful to know of other's experiences.

 

Thanks

 

Yep. Walk in and say I have x amount of cash in used 20s and I want that one.

 

​Worst they can do is tell you that 'your dreaming'

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Well, to be pedantic, it was your experiences/opinion more than factual.

 

Factual was perhaps a poor choice of word. What I mean't was that I didn't lie about what I observed, the things I wrote were truthful / factual i.e. I didn't make it up.

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I must admit some of the advice comes accross as quite glib and more sensitivity wouldn't go amiss in both directions.

The thing is though a lot of people have been spoon fed a lot of misinformation on job prospects costs of living ect then got there and felt completely underwhelmed and conned. TBH i don't see much p!ssing on parades more of a heads up, then maybe some over defensiveness, then a row starts..

I read a post recently about a private group like the MBTTUK one for those very happy in Aus? maybe this would be a good idea for when people just want to hear good things about australia which is fine IMO.

 

 

​I think anyone who feels they were misinformed and then gets underwhelmed and conned...come on, really who are they going to blame, posters on PIO? Most people will research their own field in terms of job prospects, research their own cost of living etc. I don't really think that a private section of the forum is necessary though because its really not a case of people 'only wanting to hear good things' about Australia is it?

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Guest chris955

Absolutely, it is no different.

 

Question (from a newbie to Australia): Can you negotiate prices in big stores eg on fridges and freezers, and is that common practice, or is it just in small local stores? Have to buy a new fridge/freezer soon and it would be helpful to know of other's experiences.

 

Thanks

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Just realised have answered my own concerns there in that if people are going to blame PIO for being too positive when all in the garden not as rosy as expected again those who complain that a falsely negative picture is unfair should also accept that people ( myself included) can make their own minds up and that information from a forum can be taken relatively lightly. I draw the line at the need for critical analysis of posts though, my goodness those of us that have studied have done enough of that! PIO is supposed to be light relief! My conclusion, stay calm and carry on ( whatever your plans!) or opinions!

Edited by HappyHeart

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Guest chris955

One thing I have noticed is that there seems to be quite a few that object to what they consider to be overly negative but have no problem with something that is wildly overly positive. To my mind there are many positives and negatives in both countries.

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