littlekitty Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 Sorry if this is a bit long, but if you had a very small wedding/registry wedding/got married before your wedding day - please read on. Hi all, we are in the process of getting our Prospective Marriage Visa, and we will be getting married within the 9 months (Weeeee! Excited!) and we have the wedding 'planned' for the end of 2013. People are driving us nuts for starters: "When are you getting married???" "Where is it going to be?? (UK/Aus)???" "who are the bridesmaids????" "Can my kid be the flowergirl????" etc etc. I have never been the "little girl dreaming of her wedding her whole life", but still want the nice white dress and all that, and want both families (from all over Aus and UK) and friends to be in attendance. Our marriage celebrant said something very smart to us when we told him we were waiting on our PMV: "well, most couples like you guys get married soon after the partner is back in Aus, just a quiet signing of the papers and no one has to know, and it gives you time to really save for a nice big wedding day...." this totally rang true for us - I am new to Perth and have pretty much gone about setting myself up in a new city from scratch, and my partner will be doing the same once he has his visa. So, we have decided to get married within the 9 months at the registry office, and not tell anyone. We will then set about saving our money for other things (house, a big trip we want to do o/s, wedding) and put the wedding off for maybe 18 months/two years. We want the registry thing to be a total secret as we think a lot of the UK wedding guests will not come/feel cheated if they know we are already married on our 'wedding day'. We just dont think we can afford to have the nice wedding we want with all our out-of-town guests, and set ourselves up in a new city within 9 months. My worry is - that we will get married, not have a 'wedding' as such with family and friends in attendance and support - and this will look bad for our Partner Visa. Like our relationship wont look genuine if we got married in secret and didnt have a public celebration of our marriage? Do you think that could be a factor in our partner visa? We would probably plan to have the wedding before the 2 year period of the permanent Partner Visa being granted... so DIAC would see we did eventually have our big celebration later down the track. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eera Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 You get a marriage certificate regardless of how many people come and how much you spend, can't see it would make a difference unless DIAC want to see your photos. I know how you feel about people muscling in though, I found I had various small relatives being volunteered for roles I had no intention of filling like bridesmaids and flower girls, anda friend on mine deliberately is holding hers on an island with room for 20 guests only so as to avoid having to invite most of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spherian Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 Well my friend is doing the same so in 9 months I can advise then lol.. Pretty sure if the marraige is legal and you are in a genuine relationship and everything is above board then one would assume you will not have too many issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GeorgeD Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 Don't worry...DIAC don't judge how real your relationship is by the size of your wedding cake or the number of guests. Marriage is a legal process, and it doesn't matter if Hello/OK had their paparazzi in helicopters trying to get snaps of it...You are either legally married or you aren't, they don't judge ont he size of the wedding. As long as your friends/family say in their statements thet they know you are married and got married around x time then it'll be fine. Not everyone wants a big wedding. Not everyone can afford a big wedding. It is stressful getting married and the whole migration thing is stressful too...if you want soemthing small and legal, then that's up to you and it isn't really any of DIAC's business. Whether you have a big party at the time or later is also not really any of DIAC's business...people may not want family there if they don't approve of the relationship, if they have been married previously, etc, if they aren't happy about the migration, etc...there are lots of reasons why people have small weddings...but a legal marriage is legal irrespective of how big it is. A marriage certificate isn't enough for a visa...you need plenty of other evidence to prove your relationship. This will be used to judge how real your relationship is...the marriage is either legal adn registered properly or it isn't...and the party afterwards is just a party. My wife's brother was gettign remarried...As soon as his divorce came through, his wife and him booked a ceremeny at Gretna and went and got married. There were only a handful of people in the room. We didn't even find out until the day of it, they ahd forgotten to tell us! And they're just as married as anyone else... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlekitty Posted February 5, 2013 Author Share Posted February 5, 2013 (edited) Thanks for the replies I totally understand that we need to prove more than the marriage certificate etc, and that marriage is marriage (even without a 'wedding'), but my issue was that we dont plan to tell anyone about the registry marriage, so therefore there will be no one to write a statement about our 'married' life together - as everyone will be totally in the dark and think we are still just engaged. My Fiance's step-mum/monstor is already making a huge fuss that its going to be hard to get to Aus for the wedding (they travel to Aus at least once a year anyway!), so if she finds out we are already married on the day then she will feel like there is even more of an excuse not to come - hence my fiances dad will not come either. So we have LOTS of family reasons to keep the legal marriage a secret and just tell everyone we are postponing the wedding til a later date for money reasons. I'm just worried about the fact that - as far as anyone outside Me and the fiance - no one will know we are married and that may look like we are hiding something or keeping the marriage a secret for a 'reason'. Obviously the only reason will be to save the money and to not take the focus away from the 'wedding' day, where we plan to give our family and friends a beautiful day (that they have travelled far for) and they would be none the wiser about us being married already. We will have lots of other evidence etc, so I wasnt thinking that a big flashy wedding would sway DIAC in any way, I was just hoping that they wouldnt think that suspicious or strange. Edited February 5, 2013 by littlekitty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spherian Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 I think its a bit suspicious that you are not telling anyone... You really need a few Ausstie statdecs from close friends or family.. maybe its time to have a chat / advise from an agent and get some professional advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VERYSTORMY Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 I personally do not get the idea of a big wedding. What is the point in it. I can think of a load of things that the thousands can be better spent on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 I don't know anything about the DIAC side of it although it is worth looking into what GeorgeD says about statements - do you need these? I think by the whole "secret" thing then you are kind of setting yourself up for a lifetime of lying which I couldn't be bothered with. You'll have to always pretend your anniversary is a different day! Also these things always seem to come out eventually so how would your family and friends feel then? Would it be better to be upfront and let them make the choice? Also would there be any difference in the ceremony if you are legally married? I don't know if there would if it is a blessing rather than a wedding ceremony? It all seems to be a bit complicated. We did a very simple, quickly organised wedding which was lovely and had 40 guests. You do have the option of a middle ground maybe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spherian Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 The thing is, I wanted to stay in Aus soo bad and my friend who is 12 years older than me with 3 children offered to marry me for a visa, I politely declined! but did think about it for a second and one of the reasons was OMG i couldnt tell anyone that I would be marrying someone just for a visa. etc etc, The marraige doesnt have to be a big deal, but not telling a single person is - in my eyes not a genuine marraige, its a marraige to get a visa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkippyChick11 Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 Hi Little Kitty, Four of my mates (ie 2 couples) have had to do a registry office wedding and a secondary "blessing" when they could afford it. Both couples have applied successfully for visas for Aus. I may be wrong, but with registry office weddings over here, you need to have two witnesses to sign the marriage certificate, I assume it's the same in Aus. Therefore you'll have to let at least two of your mates/family in on the secret, and *bang* there's your two stat decs required for the 309 visa. Good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 We got married and didn't tell hardly anyone. We only invited 4 people, my parents and two friends and that was it. We didn't tell my husbands family till months later when we were on our honeymoon and we sent them cards saying it wasn't just a holiday but our honeymoon. Many of my friends and family didn't know for a long time after and we never made any official announcement of it anywhere. TBH it was never a worry or an issue for us. We just were (and still are) not people who wanted a big wedding, lots of people or a 'big day'. We rather wanted to have a very small simple celebration and to carry on with life without any big build up or come down or changes of focus or anything. I didn't change my name, neither of us wear wedding rings and I never had or wore an engagement ring. None of those things mattered a jot to us. We are totally committed to each other, happily married and that's all that matters for us. We never planned to have a bigger celebration later on and 5 years later, that hasn't changed :biggrin: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
readstogo Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 Plenty of people have low-key semi-secret ceremonies & then chuck a party when ready to celebrate. My bro have very small & intimate ceremony on a beach in Bali, then had a party a month later. His misuse is rather shy & doesn't do big public displays. I threatened to elope if everyone didn't butt out of mine & that calmed everyone down! So long as your relationship is genuine, it doesn't matter how you do it. congrats & enjoy your day, however you decide to do it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
readstogo Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 LOL missus not misuse! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacaranda Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 Do you "have"to get the visa you're going for?The prospectus marriage one?Seems abit silly to me that you have to sneak around,organising a hush hush wedding just for a visa!I'm not up on visa's.Do you live together at the moment?If so can't you just get a de facto one???Why do you have to marry just for the visa's sake?If one of my daughters got married without me knowing,I'd be pretty angry tbh!I had a very very small wedding,and yes our parents were invited but declined,as we were'nt living near either of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 (edited) Sorry if this is a bit long, but if you had a very small wedding/registry wedding/got married before your wedding day - please read on. Hi all, we are in the process of getting our Prospective Marriage Visa, and we will be getting married within the 9 months (Weeeee! Excited!) and we have the wedding 'planned' for the end of 2013. People are driving us nuts for starters: "When are you getting married???" "Where is it going to be?? (UK/Aus)???" "who are the bridesmaids????" "Can my kid be the flowergirl????" etc etc. I have never been the "little girl dreaming of her wedding her whole life", but still want the nice white dress and all that, and want both families (from all over Aus and UK) and friends to be in attendance. Our marriage celebrant said something very smart to us when we told him we were waiting on our PMV: "well, most couples like you guys get married soon after the partner is back in Aus, just a quiet signing of the papers and no one has to know, and it gives you time to really save for a nice big wedding day...." this totally rang true for us - I am new to Perth and have pretty much gone about setting myself up in a new city from scratch, and my partner will be doing the same once he has his visa. So, we have decided to get married within the 9 months at the registry office, and not tell anyone. We will then set about saving our money for other things (house, a big trip we want to do o/s, wedding) and put the wedding off for maybe 18 months/two years. We want the registry thing to be a total secret as we think a lot of the UK wedding guests will not come/feel cheated if they know we are already married on our 'wedding day'. We just dont think we can afford to have the nice wedding we want with all our out-of-town guests, and set ourselves up in a new city within 9 months. My worry is - that we will get married, not have a 'wedding' as such with family and friends in attendance and support - and this will look bad for our Partner Visa. Like our relationship wont look genuine if we got married in secret and didnt have a public celebration of our marriage? Do you think that could be a factor in our partner visa? We would probably plan to have the wedding before the 2 year period of the permanent Partner Visa being granted... so DIAC would see we did eventually have our big celebration later down the track. I find this slightly weird. You ask if anyone had a small wedding before their wedding day? This simply does not make sense, the day you get married is your wedding day, no matter how small the ceremoney is. You can't get married and then "put the wedding off" ... because you have already had it.. I enjoy weddings as a guest, but the big wedding was not for me. I had a small wedding, just 8 people, it was a great day but I was more interested in the marriage. I think if you want to do this low key wedding, by all means have a "party" afterwards, but why spend your life pretending that your wedding and all anniversaries thereafter are on a different date that they really are. I also think it is wrong to lie to people so that they are more likely to turn up. Can't see why either option would make a difference to the visa. Edited February 5, 2013 by Rupert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockDr Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 We had a registry office wedding. Video-ed the ceremony, very few guests, though our parents attended, then had two separate receptions, one in Australia later that day, and another one while we were in the UK for Christmas three months later. Both receptions were equivalent, speeches, cakes, showed the recording of the ceremony, got to wear the dress twice. Everyone was really positive about it, both in Australia and the UK. The ceremony is the official ceremony, regardless of where, when or how few guests attend. I don't see the point in keeping it quiet, and no-one will hold it against you if you have a reception at a later date. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlekitty Posted February 6, 2013 Author Share Posted February 6, 2013 The thing is, I wanted to stay in Aus soo bad and my friend who is 12 years older than me with 3 children offered to marry me for a visa, I politely declined! but did think about it for a second and one of the reasons was OMG i couldnt tell anyone that I would be marrying someone just for a visa. etc etc, The marraige doesnt have to be a big deal, but not telling a single person is - in my eyes not a genuine marraige, its a marraige to get a visa. Thanks for your concern, but myself and my partner are very happily and genuinely in love. I'm not sure why anyone would go through 9 months of hell waiting for a visa, at times apart from each other, if they didnt want to spend the rest of our life together. What I find funny is that this is common practice (destination weddings where the marriage isnt recognised by the home country anyone????) however you would never know if the couple had done this previous to their wedding day, because thats just it - its kept quiet! Of course people will be skeptical about the idea - and I find it very insulting to be told that we may be getting married "just for a visa" (see Spherian) - you are passing judgement on my financial situation in essence. The plain and simple truth is - we cant afford the wedding that we WANT within 9 months. So instead of doing the aforementioned plan, I should have some wedding that I dont want and look back and think "I wish I could have invited more people"? PS, the wedding we want is in no way flashy - around 50 guests and romantic/intimate. Funnily enough, my marriage celebrant, my own mother, and one of my friends offered the idea as well - without me bringing it up. And before you say "then why dont your friend and mother be the witnesses"? My fiance's mother suffers from depression, and if she knew that my mother was the one to see us married legally, she would be very upset. My mum said "you could get married and not even tell me which day you are doing it on, therefore when I go to the wedding, I know - but my memories will be from the wedding day". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlekitty Posted February 6, 2013 Author Share Posted February 6, 2013 For the people out there that think this is a foreign idea: http://boards.weddingbee.com/topic/getting-legally-married-before-our-wedding-day Obviously in their situation, they did it because her husband is in the military. If you read the thread, some people do it for insurance/welfare reasons. My reason is, we need to be (and want to be) married within 9 months of receiving our PMV. I would chuck on a dress and marry him tomorrow - however I want all our family and friends to share the celebration with us and to have a memorable day (especially those from the UK). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlekitty Posted February 6, 2013 Author Share Posted February 6, 2013 I find this slightly weird. You ask if anyone had a small wedding before their wedding day? This simply does not make sense, the day you get married is your wedding day, no matter how small the ceremoney is. You can't get married and then "put the wedding off" ... because you have already had it.. I enjoy weddings as a guest, but the big wedding was not for me. I had a small wedding, just 8 people, it was a great day but I was more interested in the marriage. I think if you want to do this low key wedding, by all means have a "party" afterwards, but why spend your life pretending that your wedding and all anniversaries thereafter are on a different date that they really are. I also think it is wrong to lie to people so that they are more likely to turn up. Can't see why either option would make a difference to the visa. Last time I checked, the words 'Marriage' and 'wedding' meant two different things, just traditionally and historically, its done on the one day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickyNook Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 Last time I checked, the words 'Marriage' and 'wedding' meant two different things, just traditionally and historically, its done on the one day. Do they? First I've heard of it. What's the difference, then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielleferris Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 Hi Little Kitty, I personally believe it your personal choice as to how and when you get married. In your case you do have to consider your visa application, however, the Department of Immigration are not going to look at the fact you had a 'secret registry marriage' as the only deciding factor in assessing your case, they will always look at the big picture and at all of the evidence combined. If you can provide strong evidence that you meet the migration law, regulations and policy for the grant of a spouse visa application that is what you need to focus on pulling together and telling your story to the Department of Immigration backed up with the evidence to prove it. Essentially, the Department of Immigration are assessing whether or not you and your partner have a 'genuine and continuing relationship' and they look at four broad categories: financial aspects;the nature of the household; social context of the relationship; and the nature of your commitment to each other. If you can provide solid evidence in all these four categories, the fact you had a 'secret registry marriage' should not hinder you. Please do not take my post as professional migration advice, purely information for you to consider. You can look at the Department of Immigration website for further information or contact a registered migration agent like myself to get professional migratiion advice and asssistance from a suitably qualified and experienced immigration law specialist. All the best to you and your partner for your big day and the visa process. I would love to help if you wish to PM me. thanks and regards, Danielle Ferris All Australian Visas Registered Migration Registration Number: 0955608 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest79615 Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 the marriage is about commitment, love and future, the wedding lasts a day and is just essentially the meaningless fluff attached to the marriage for a few hours...weddings are meaningless, i know my family would rather i had a committed life long marriage rather than all the 'fluff' of a wedding...we had a small wedding as for us it was about marriage, and my parents are just happy we are happy and have each other..its sad that ourselves and our families didnt get to waste thousands of pounds but we coped Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlekitty Posted February 6, 2013 Author Share Posted February 6, 2013 Do they? First I've heard of it. What's the difference, then? Marriage - the legal or religious ceremony that formalizes the decision of two people to live as a married couple, usually including accompanying social festivities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlekitty Posted February 6, 2013 Author Share Posted February 6, 2013 the marriage is about commitment, love and future, the wedding lasts a day and is just essentially the meaningless fluff attached to the marriage for a few hours...weddings are meaningless, i know my family would rather i had a committed life long marriage rather than all the 'fluff' of a wedding...we had a small wedding as for us it was about marriage, and my parents are just happy we are happy and have each other..its sad that ourselves and our families didnt get to waste thousands of pounds but we coped hit the nail on the head there, LornaG. My fiance and I are excited to have our own little personal afternoon where it's just me and him making a commitment to each other in private. And we are also excited for our families to get together (from all over the world and Aus) for a lovely day where my mum gets to see me in a nice dress. Simple as that. I totally agree with the "meaningless fluff attached" as I cringe at these over the top weddings, but we think the wedding may be the highlight of the month/year/life of some of my fiances family (some have never travelled overseas before) and we wouldnt want to taint that for them by thinking they were getting a 'wedding party' instead of a wedding. Plus, a wedding for 50 people is considered small - but being in Perth, no matter how small it is, its still going to be expensive!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GeorgeD Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 Being married is the legal bit...a marriage certiifacte shows you have doen this. You also have to show the social aspects of your relationship...so you may struggle to do this if nobody says you are married...worse still would be on the off chance that DIAC actually contact one of the people making a stat dec and ask them when you got married...and they say, erm, they're not yet! Another aspect is that your family will find out at some point that you got married previously. It may be further down the line, even years, but they will find out, and people could be upset. I'm not judging, you, it's your choice...but you may have relatives who feel you lied to them about something they feel is really important. Nothing to do with the visa, but something to consider. My friend's wife researched their family tree and discovered that her aunt and uncle had never actually got married...they told the family that they had eloped to Gretna and threw a party when they got back. Turns out they never went through with it but told everyone they had. Her Dad cut all ties with his brother (both in their 70s) because he said he had been lying to him for 40 years saying they were married. Irrespective of the visa situation you could be creating a family time bomb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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