flybyknight Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 there will always be extreme views from both sides of the argument. society, and the media tell us which one to laugh at though. in my few months living and working in Melbourne it feels like the U.N! i have met so many people with such diverse backgrounds, and i can honestly say i haven't met one person who was in any way awkward. yes im a pom, and yes its mentioned a lot, but it's more of a conversation piece, something to talk about. bit like Brits talking bout the weather i guess. no animosity, its just nice. im sure at some point ill meet the idiots, from the gene pool with no deep end. the world is shrinking, air travel started it, the Internet has galvanised it, and places like Australia are leading the world into the new way, we are but human, any other differences are trivial. some communities and countries will fight it, maybe for generations, but eventually, the world will become more like the Australia i've seen. well done! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fergal007 Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 What did she do, to bring it upon herself I mean? Watch it on Youtube, if she had shut up initially after some people has passed remarks , I don't thing it would have went so far ie the brick being hurled through the window, by the end of the incident it looked like half the bus was ready to lynch her! Common sense would have been to keep her mouth shut. I think she was a young,French backpacker who was probably half pissed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacaranda Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 (edited) I'm only going from my own experiences here so can't generalise.Ok abit of background.Around 8 years ago,my OH and I started a project in India,which involved building a school.We have over the years spent time in India.On our trips back to Oz,it shocks and saddens us both having to listen to people passing derogatory remarks about Indians.We've chosen to show these people (Australians)compassion for their ignorance. Edited January 22, 2013 by Jacaranda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 You like to get personal dont you, well i suggest instead of doing it on the forum you pm me and we can take it up there. Your vile rather pathetic comment was akin to being throttled by a soggy lettuce mate.Apart from the likelihood the lettuce has possibly a greter chance of having a set of..............I won't be vile........A bit of a girl's blouse I'm sorry to say. Further more have no intent getting into a personal pm with a non entity whose dabating skills are at best questionabe. debate......Any future abusive pm's I will post for all to read. Did I mention you really could sharpen your punch line....fatal how you leave yourself so open. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 I' only going from my own experiences here so can't generalise.Ok abit of background.Around 8 years ago,my OH and I started a project in India,which involved building a school.We have over the years spent time in India.On our trips back to Oz,it shocks and saddens us both having to listen to people passing derogatory remarks about Indians.We've chosen to show these people (Australians)compassion for their ignorance. It is but I'm happy to say change is evident. I have worked in the NGO sector where a few have risen to the top. Still work to do but if folk of good intent don't accept racist behaviour around them it makes a difference..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 (edited) No mate, he has just personally abused me, i have not said a word to him, i was just having a debate. Personally abused as if......just trying to gauge the reasons for your distaste of foreigners....yet want to become come one yourself? I accept I shouldn't have wondered aloud and you are entitled to be racist..just as I am entitled in kind (and will) respond. Been for a curry in Slough recently? Edited January 22, 2013 by flag of convenience Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Andy Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 Your vile rather pathetic comment was akin to being throttled by a soggy lettuce mate.Apart from the likelihood the lettuce has possibly a greter chance of having a set of..............I won't be vile........A bit of a girl's blouse I'm sorry to say. Further more have no intent getting into a personal pm with a non entity whose dabating skills are at best questionabe. debate......Any future abusive pm's I will post for all to read. Did I mention you really could sharpen your punch line....fatal how you leave yourself so open. I suggest you post what i messaged you then for all to see, you accused me of being part of some right wing organization and even disgracefully bought my family into it for simply having a view that you disagreed with. I have debated the thread while you have got personal where as i did it via pm although i would not call my pm to you vile and abusive, so go ahead post it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Pom Queen Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 You have been warned, anymore after this will be deleted and infractions handed out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starlight7 Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 Getting back to the topic rather than the pistols at dawn, I haven't seen much if any racism in Australia except perhaps in 1980s and 90s when the Vietnamese people came over. At that time people felt very threatened by them because there were a few knife fights- so they were all tarred with the same brush, so to speak. Now you get similar against Somalians because of the train robberies- which is done by maybe 6 or 7 kids who give the whole race a bad name. Apart from those sort of things I think Australia is very welcoming to all races. Having said that. though, I think there is a danger of anti muslim issues coming up, not helped by some of the comments from the clerics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ausborn Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 I grew up in brisbane. You will find people very tolerant to most races. There's sometimes the odd tongue in cheek comment but usually nothing degrading and straight out offensive. Mixed race families and couples are very common. I grew up very multicultural and never experienced much racism aimed directly at people. Remember Australia is one of the most multicultural countries, and most here are very used to it. The trouble will only be there if you go looking for it. Living a normal suburban life I don't think you will experience much trouble at all with racism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 Watch it on Youtube, if she had shut up initially after some people has passed remarks , I don't thing it would have went so far ie the brick being hurled through the window, by the end of the incident it looked like half the bus was ready to lynch her! Common sense would have been to keep her mouth shut. I think she was a young,French backpacker who was probably half pissed. Just watched it and found it extraordinary. I can't see what she did wrong tbh. She was singing in French (or at least in French accent, the sound wasn't great) and laughingly told the locals "you're crazy" when they repeatedly told her to "Shut the f*ck up/ f*cking shut up" before calling her a c*nt several times over. What struck me was the really visceral tone of the anger and how quickly this flared up. Was it that she carried on singing after another passenger shouted "Aussie, Aussie Aussie" at her that really light the blue touchy paper?. That they felt it affronted their sense of national pride?. She's then threatened with bolt-cutters!. The looks of utter hatred on the faces of some of those passengers is shocking, as is the guy who then starts ranting about how he hates Black people and the other guy who offers him his fishing knife. WTF? What's reassuring is that when you look at the comments below the link on Youtube, there are some people who are angry and ashamed at what they've witnessed. I'd say perhaps that she misjudged her audience, but the responses she received, not just from one isolated psycho either, were extreme and utterly shameful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitalis Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 Right, racism is defined in many different way so everyone will have many different opinions but what I am really looking for is some information from those that already reside in Oz please. I don't know if my Mum is trying to put me off the big move down under with my family but she told me a story about a family she knows that moved to Oz and basically they were back home within 2 years due to racism. They spoke of how racist the country was, now I didn't ask where they lived in Oz what ethnic background they were or who they were but it got me thinking a little which has resulted to me writing this on here to get some honest opinions. Thanks It's nowhere near as racist as the UK is towards White people put it that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 I grew up in brisbane. You will find people very tolerant to most races. There's sometimes the odd tongue in cheek comment but usually nothing degrading and straight out offensive. Mixed race families and couples are very common. I grew up very multicultural and never experienced much racism aimed directly at people. Remember Australia is one of the most multicultural countries, and most here are very used to it. The trouble will only be there if you go looking for it. Living a normal suburban life I don't think you will experience much trouble at all with racism. Like calling people Wogs?, talking about 'de-wogging?,' 'he/she's got a bit of wog in them?.' I guess it depends upon what you regard as the norm I suppose, and this term does seem very common over here. I've met people from Greek, Italian and Maltese backgrounds who refer to themselves as 'Wogs / Wog Boys' and I wonder if they're trying to reclaim the term and make it their own as certain sections of the African-Caribbean community in the U.S. and U.K. have done with the N-word, or whether they just take the term on the chin in order to fit in in Australia. As a White Briton it leaves me feeling very uncomfortable when I hear it, a bit like hearing someone willingly participating in their own racial oppression, but then I'm looking at it through the eyes of an outsider. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fergal007 Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 Just watched it and found it extraordinary. I can't see what she did wrong tbh. She was singing in French (or at least in French accent, the sound wasn't great) and laughingly told the locals "you're crazy" when they repeatedly told her to "Shut the f*ck up/ f*cking shut up" before calling her a c*nt several times over. What struck me was the really visceral tone of the anger and how quickly this flared up. Was it that she carried on singing after another passenger shouted "Aussie, Aussie Aussie" at her that really light the blue touchy paper?. That they felt it affronted their sense of national pride?. She's then threatened with bolt-cutters!. The looks of utter hatred on the faces of some of those passengers is shocking, as is the guy who then starts ranting about how he hates Black people and the other guy who offers him his fishing knife. WTF? What's reassuring is that when you look at the comments below the link on Youtube, there are some people who are angry and ashamed at what they've witnessed. I'd say perhaps that she misjudged her audience, but the responses she received, not just from one isolated psycho either, were extreme and utterly shameful. "What struck me was the really visceral tone of the anger and how quickly this flared up" That is when she should have put a lid on it! she kept going and inflamed the situation further, I think she was drunk and did not expect to get such a response. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jomark Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 It makes me laugh how some australians need to point out that you are from the uk by using the saying "and your a pom" ?????? like you need reminding, we had a run in with some bloke on the beach over our dog running up to his and his response was "and your a pom" (this happened twice lol), my OH wouldnt let a bloke off the bus in the middle of the street and his response was " and your a pom", i was promoting Australian products in woolworths and a womens response was "and your a pom"....... well no **** sherlock.... luckily i find the stupidity of it all very funny :biglaugh: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 "What struck me was the really visceral tone of the anger and how quickly this flared up" That is when she should have put a lid on it! she kept going and inflamed the situation further, I think she was drunk and did not expect to get such a response. I agree she was naive, and I would have kind of expected someone to tell to belt up, but threatening to kill her with bolt-cutters?!. Hardly proportionate as responses go is it?. It's the naked anger and hatred that's really evident to me. This isn't someone yelling to her "f-off home Frenchy" as they get off the bus, these are people seeing themselves as sinned against and wanting to take that anger out on someone. I suppose I'm curious as to where that anger comes from as much as anything. Is it a dislike of outsiders?, an expectation that outsiders should behave only in a certain way whilst in Australia?, fear of difference?, or was her singing really just that bad?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fergal007 Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 I agree she was naive, and I would have kind of expected someone to tell to belt up, but threatening to kill her with bolt-cutters?!. Hardly proportionate as responses go is it?. It's the naked anger and hatred that's really evident to me. This isn't someone yelling to her "f-off home Frenchy" as they get off the bus, these are people seeing themselves as sinned against and wanting to take that anger out on someone. I suppose I'm curious as to where that anger comes from as much as anything. Is it a dislike of outsiders?, an expectation that outsiders should behave only in a certain way whilst in Australia?, fear of difference?, or was her singing really just that bad?! Is it a dislike of outsiders?, an expectation that outsiders should behave only in a certain way whilst in Australia?, fear of difference?, or was her singing really just that bad?! I think its a combo of all the above, there is a bit of an undertone of anti-immigrant sentiment no matter where your from and as the economy tightens more this will rear its ugly head. Blaming the immigrant for all of your woes is an easy shot. I think its fear of difference more than anything and lack of culture on the bogans behalf. It occurred on a bus in Frankston (i think) and it is not a very delightful part of town according to some people. TBH it just looked like bogans being bogans, if you dont drink VB, own a Holden, eat pies, speak our language etc etc , then your not an Aussie! and plus half of them have probably never been outside of Aus and probably didnt even know it was french she was speaking. Her singing was terrible Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ausborn Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 Is it a dislike of outsiders?, an expectation that outsiders should behave only in a certain way whilst in Australia?, fear of difference?, or was her singing really just that bad?! I think its a combo of all the above, there is a bit of an undertone of anti-immigrant sentiment no matter where your from and as the economy tightens more this will rear its ugly head. Blaming the immigrant for all of your woes is an easy shot. I think its fear of difference more than anything and lack of culture on the bogans behalf. It occurred on a bus in Frankston (i think) and it is not a very delightful part of town according to some people. TBH it just looked like bogans being bogans, if you dont drink VB, own a Holden, eat pies, speak our language etc etc , then your not an Aussie! and plus half of them have probably never been outside of Aus and probably didnt even know it was french she was speaking. Her singing was terrible Terrible video, you no its not the norm. Find it funny how people that take offence so easily in oz are quick to call Aussies bogans. So anyone who drives a ute, eats pie and drink beer is a bogan. Your in the wrong country mate. . Your explanation above sounds a bit like the way most Brits talk about Eastern Europeans , French and Africans in the uk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisher1 Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 (edited) I dont live in Australia but my daughter does. We are (I suppose) white, middle class poms. I have experienced racism, from Welsh speakers (most recently about a month ago when I was serving in a shop and a customer walked away from me when I apologised (in Welsh) for not understanding. About twenty years ago, newly arrived in a French speaking country, I spent two hours with a French dictionary trying to work out what an 'important message for the neighbourhood' meant. It turned out to be a far right group asking people to rally round and work towards getting these foreigners (us) out because we were stealing their jobs etc etc etc. This is, however, only a very small taste of what I am sure people who appear racially different from the majority have to go through. So no, I don't think my experience can compare, but it gives me a very small insight into the nastiness of it all. Racism is everywhere, I think the sane ones among us need to try to counter it wherever we can. That starts, I believe, with trying to avoid calling each other horrible names - should be obvious shouldnt it? - and that includes 'red neck' and 'bogan' Edited January 22, 2013 by Fisher1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fergal007 Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 Terrible video, you no its not the norm. Find it funny how people that take offence so easily in oz are quick to call Aussies bogans. So anyone who drives a ute, eats pie and drink beer is a bogan. Your in the wrong country mate. . Your explanation above sounds a bit like the way most Brits talk about Eastern Europeans , French and Africans in the uk. ****............... I am half bogan I eat pies and drink beer!!!! I refuse to buy a ute as they are a complete was of space, can i be a bogan with a Honda CRV LOL!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fergal007 Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 Terrible video, you no its not the norm. Find it funny how people that take offence so easily in oz are quick to call Aussies bogans. So anyone who drives a ute, eats pie and drink beer is a bogan. Your in the wrong country mate. . Your explanation above sounds a bit like the way most Brits talk about Eastern Europeans , French and Africans in the uk. Eastern Europeans.. I lived with a few Polish people in London,lovely people great drinkers ( bit to much with the vodka) and they have some lovely cured meats French: I love them and their country I drove from St Malo to Hossenger surfing, eating fresh bread, cheeses, pate and washed down with vino. Viva La France. Africa: Have only been to mystical Morocco, Mauritania and the Western Sahara in a Toyota Hilux , lovely places with deep histories and cultures, the spices and food in the souks are amazing, sorry I have only been to North western Africa, but the rest is on the list to do Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bromney Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 Racism exists everywhere, Australia is no exception but nor is it any more racist than the next country. Perception of racism largely depends on personal experiences. I have suffered verbal and physical racist abuse in the UK but that doesn't mean I automatically think it's a more racist place than Australia. I just had the misfortune of encountering mindless thugs. The sad fact is as the world becomes much more of a global economy there will always be migrants to various countries. Some will welcome them while those less able to compete with the migrants will attack them and hide behind the ugliness that is racism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bogdan Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 I was having a drink with one of my mates at a pub in Central London and an English lady in her 50s who was having a drink on her own and was a bit tipsy came to us and asked me a few times to "f*** off back home" and at the same time apologising to my friend (who is English) that she had to be rude in front of him, because we, Eastern Europeans don't get it if asked nicely. I would imagine though there should be less racism against Eastern Europeans in countries such as Oz/Us as they are not part of Europe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beddy Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 Right, racism is defined in many different way so everyone will have many different opinions but what I am really looking for is some information from those that already reside in Oz please. I don't know if my Mum is trying to put me off the big move down under with my family but she told me a story about a family she knows that moved to Oz and basically they were back home within 2 years due to racism. They spoke of how racist the country was, now I didn't ask where they lived in Oz what ethnic background they were or who they were but it got me thinking a little which has resulted to me writing this on here to get some honest opinions. Thanks my family are white British and we live in Queensland .When we first came out here me and my husband went to the local tavern on a few occasions which left me feeling very vulnerable and very reluctant to speak openly in public because of my British accent . To be honest I felt unworthy, unwelcomed and generally not liked because of a few comments. However them few comments at a time when I was settling in was immense to me and left me analysing the impact of racism . Never before had I felt this way or even considered my nationality as a label .However I did feel they were racist remarks and aimed at my nationality which to me were very hurtful at the time . I am now at a place where I feel I can challenge these remarks and maybe they were just banter and seen by me something too deep . I now feel I could hold my own and give anyone a run for their money whether banter or genuine racist remarks because I now feel settled . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelvin Charles Posted January 22, 2013 Author Share Posted January 22, 2013 Some great comments, very mixed so thank you. It is definitely something to think long and hard about from the comments that have been posted on here. I know everyone has a different experience and not one experience seemed to be the same but I just want to make sure we are doing the right thing for the kids too. Thank you soooo much for all your comments...now to show my Wife :-D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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