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ukchris

Islamic riots in Oz

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Beat me to it mate. Debate the post, not the poster and all that. Asking a question like that, on this thread, will only end heading one direction.

aren't you interested in hearing the response?


My Brain Hurts!

 

 

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Play the ball, not the man

 

theres too many men and not enough balls on this thread mate


My Brain Hurts!

 

 

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aren't you interested in hearing the response?

 

I would be interested in hearing responses to my questions as well, but once I seem to ask a 'difficult' question it never seems to be answered . Maybe the same will occur here. You may then understand how others feel.

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I would be interested in hearing responses to my questions as well, but once I seem to ask a 'difficult' question it never seems to be answered . Maybe the same will occur here. You may then understand how others feel.

 

ah, diddums!


My Brain Hurts!

 

 

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Yet again another thread that will be closed by the time i come back on after work.

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....on 3 June 1992, the High Court announced its historic decision, namely overturning the legal doctrine of terra nullius - which is a term applied to the attitude of the British towards land ownership on the continent of Australia.

<dl style="margin-top: 0.2em; margin-bottom: 0.5em; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: sans-serif; line-height: 19.200000762939453px; "><dd style="line-height: 1.5em; margin-left: 1.6em; margin-bottom: 0.1em; margin-right: 0px; ">"...so Justice Moynihan's decision that Mabo wasn't the rightful heir was irrelevant because the decision that came out was that native title existed and it was up to the Aboriginal or Islander people to determine who owned what land."[citation needed] Henry Reynolds</dd></dl>That decision is now commonly called "Mabo" in Australia and is recognised for its landmark status.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddie_Mabo#Land_rights_advocate

 

 

All that decision did was to acknowledge that the Aboriginal inhabited the land before any Europeans discovered it. The Aboriginal is not indigenous to Australia, they migrated here. Remains of another race of people have been found which have been dated earlier than the forebearers of today's Aboriginal.

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I agree with paulv, judge each case individually. If people have been found to be in breech of their visa conditions, fair enough, deport them.

 

What of the people who are children of migrants (maybe even 3rd or 4th generation) and themselves hold citizenship? Deport them too?

 

And to blewyn and ukchris, I get that you are both islamophobic, and that in principle its not a race thing. But please answer this: what would you do with your islamophobia if you were in a position of authority, either in UK or Aus?

 

Their really would be no action to take unless people broke the law, until they broke the law of the land or they breached their visa conditions then I would not wish to take any action as most muslims are law obiding citizens.

Those who like the woman who gave her children the beheading sign, if she came on a visa then I would revoke that visa full stop.

As paulv so graciously pointed out the bible did/does contain versus which we would class as evil, as long as they are not acted out there is nothing to worry about. Although I do not believe that these versus are in the modern day bible the issue is people acting upon them and unfortunately with the quran many muslims throughout the world believe these to be the literal word of their god and that they should act upon them.

I started the thread because the riot that happened was a direct link to muslims and islam, no other reason. It has just been sidetracked by certain people who will hear of no criticism of islam and the way some of its followers behave in relation to its teaching.

Edited by ukchris

We will now be arriving at Perth International Airport:biggrin:

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So I have answered your question hardpom, now I will ask paulv AGAIN and I will aslo fire this at you.

 

What do you think of the versus in the holy quran where it commands its followers to; stone gays to death, kill jews where ever you may find them, fight holy war (jihad) against none believers (everyone who is not muslim), lie for the sake of islam, not to take the kafur (again non muslims) as friends etc.

Do you condem these versus?, it would be interesting to hear you thoughts on these commandment given to mulsims.


We will now be arriving at Perth International Airport:biggrin:

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Their really would be no action to take unless people broke the law, until they broke the law of the land or they breached their visa conditions then I would not wish to take any action as most muslims are law obiding citizens.

Those who like the woman who gave her children the beheading sign, if she came on a visa then I would revoke that visa full stop.

As paulv so graciously pointed out the bible did/does contain versus which we would class as evil, as long as they are not acted out there is nothing to worry about. Although I do not believe that these versus are in the modern day bible the issue is people acting upon them and unfortunately with the quran many muslims throughout the world believe these to be the literal word of their god and that they should act upon them.

I started the thread because the riot that happened was a direct link to muslims and islam, no other reason. It has just been sidetracked by certain people who will hear of no criticism of islam and the way some of its followers behave in relation to its teaching.

 

some, many or most?

TBH I don't disagree with the majority of what you've just posted. The sticking point is that you seem to regard Islam as an inherently bad thing, whereas in truth, like any religious organisation there are a few nutters, but the vast majority are peaceful law abiding nice people.


My Brain Hurts!

 

 

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So I have answered your question hardpom, now I will ask paulv AGAIN and I will aslo fire this at you.

 

What do you think of the versus in the holy quran where it commands its followers to; stone gays to death, kill jews where ever you may find them, fight holy war (jihad) against none believers (everyone who is not muslim), lie for the sake of islam, not to take the kafur (again non muslims) as friends etc.

Do you condem these versus?, it would be interesting to hear you thoughts on these commandment given to mulsims.

No I don't (condemn these verses). Like the bible there is a lot of guff that most rational people are able to take with a pinch of salt rather than interpret everything literally.


My Brain Hurts!

 

 

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No the majority of the quran teaches people how to be good and how to do well, unfortunately the versus which contradict rational thaught are the ones which are brought to people's attention most as they end up costing lives.

Paulv Im waiting!

See you all after work.


We will now be arriving at Perth International Airport:biggrin:

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So I have answered your question hardpom, now I will ask paulv AGAIN and I will aslo fire this at you.

 

What do you think of the versus in the holy quran where it commands its followers to; stone gays to death, kill jews where ever you may find them, fight holy war (jihad) against none believers (everyone who is not muslim), lie for the sake of islam, not to take the kafur (again non muslims) as friends etc.

Do you condem these versus?, it would be interesting to hear you thoughts on these commandment given to mulsims.

 

as I said earlier, I find most if not all religions pretty nutty so attempting to single out one for more ire smacks to me of double standards. As I pointed out the Christian holy books have as many dodgy calls to arms as the Quran, but the privilege that Christianity is afforded allows its followers to conveniently discount anything they feel unease about defending. Muslims however are seemingly expected to get with the Islamophobic program and distance themselves in some way from any passage that the Islamophobes consider offensive.

Finally, it's not for me to condemn anything, I'll leave it to the holier than thou types.

Edited by paulv

"An inspirational leader...exceptionally enthusiastic, committed and motivated" OFSTED 2014.

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This thread is horrendous! Simple if you want answer to these questions go and speak to people of that faith and don't assume! Don't think you are going to get answers by asking a bunch of people who are quoting google or wikipedia! Seems to be a lot of closed minded ranting about things i'm pretty sure the majority of people on here don't even understand! Pretty sure the we are not that much of a 'hot bed' for Islamic Militants here in UK! Not denying we have had a few but I wouldn't go as far to say Hot bed! I live in one of these so called 'Hot Beds' where there has been rioting in the past (Suburb of Leeds) and the last couple of times it has been violence to one of their own in the first place that has caused the uproar. I have seen more 'Anti-Social' Behaviour from people who follow different faith here in these areas, and as race has already been brought into this, by white people who think they are owed something from the government here in the UK! Its not the Muslims are are making the UK a **** hole as you say, but all the people sat at home watching Jeremy Kyle thinking that they should be brought money on a silver platter!


Chris,Cordelia,Finley(2) &Dexter(2 Months)- Visa Granted March 2013

CHECK OUT OUR BLOG - http://migratingleeds2perth.wordpress.com/

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I have a very healthy respect for people and their beliefs – each to their own.

 

I have worked with people from many races and religions and have lived and worked in an Islamic society.

 

As others have said, it’s the minority that caused the problems in the case of these riots in Oz.

 

Just the same as it’s the minority of Brits that give us Poms a bad name abroad, by saying or doing stupid things.

 

I do not agree one bit at all with your comments about ‘murder’ and ‘little white girls’, mate.

 

One thing I will agree with you on is the ‘soft touch’ though – I say this because, had I been involved in a similar riot when I lived in an Islamic society, I know for a fact that I’d have been thrown in jail immediately and then deported, with no chance of ever setting foot in the country again.

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This thread is horrendous! Simple if you want answer to these questions go and speak to people of that faith and don't assume! Don't think you are going to get answers by asking a bunch of people who are quoting google or wikipedia! Seems to be a lot of closed minded ranting about things i'm pretty sure the majority of people on here don't even understand! Pretty sure the we are not that much of a 'hot bed' for Islamic Militants here in UK! Not denying we have had a few but I wouldn't go as far to say Hot bed! I live in one of these so called 'Hot Beds' where there has been rioting in the past (Suburb of Leeds) and the last couple of times it has been violence to one of their own in the first place that has caused the uproar. I have seen more 'Anti-Social' Behaviour from people who follow different faith here in these areas, and as race has already been brought into this, by white people who think they are owed something from the government here in the UK! Its not the Muslims are are making the UK a **** hole as you say, but all the people sat at home watching Jeremy Kyle thinking that they should be brought money on a silver platter!

 

You are right there. This topic, or ones along these lines have been discussed to death before.

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I only came on to find some information about attaching some documents!

 

Did you find the info you were after?

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One important point that should be considered is the safety travelling in Islamic countries. Not forgetting the culture that the visitor should be treated with respect. Hositality can't be faulted in my experience.....

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<iframe width="480" height="270" frameborder="0" marginwidth="0" marginheight="0" scrolling="no" src="http://hub.video.msn.com/embed/39a9cd7f-7311-423d-88da-a31c62570840/?vars=bGlua2JhY2s9aHR0cCUzQSUyRiUyRnZpZGVvLmF1Lm1zbi5jb20lMkYmbGlua292ZXJyaWRlMj1odHRwJTNBJTJGJTJGdmlkZW8uYXUubXNuLmNvbSUyRiUzRm1rdCUzRGVuLWF1JTI2dmlkJTNEJTdCMCU3RCUyNmZyb20lM0QmY29uZmlnTmFtZT1zeW5kaWNhdGlvbnBsYXllciZmcj1zaGFyZWVtYmVkLXN5bmRpY2F0aW9uJmJyYW5kPXY1JTVFNTQ0eDMwNiZjb25maWdDc2lkPU1TTlZpZGVvJnN5bmRpY2F0aW9uPXRhZyZta3Q9ZW4tYXU%3D"><br /> <A href="http://video.au.msn.com/?mkt=en-au&vid=39a9cd7f-7311-423d-88da-a31c62570840&from=shareembed-syndication&src=v5:embed:syndication:&from=dest_en-au" target="_new" title="9RAW: Muslim leaders condemn Saturday's riots">Video: 9RAW: Muslim leaders condemn Saturday's riots</A><br /></iframe>

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I think you need to look at some old testament passages.

You'll find all this and more - God calling his followers to rape and enslave women and children, killing your children if they dishonour you, killing your wife if she commits adultery. Yet I'm still to hear anything about Christianity.

Pot kettle anyone?

 

I think you're confused. There were no Christians living in the "Old Testament" days. All modern day Christians must abide by Jesus' rules:

 

"You have heard that it was said, `Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.'
But I tell you: Love your enemies
and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect."
(Matthew 5:43-48, NIV)

 

 

This is the core of true Christian behavior and anyone who doesn't abide by that is simply not a Christian. I can call myself President and CEO of Goldman Sachs, but if I don't work there and receive a paycheck, I'm nothing Goldman Sachs - same with true Christianity.

 


Skills 24/Aug/2011, IELTS OA 8.5, Submitted 175 - 11/11/11 at 1:11am!! CO: 7 May 2012Grant: 29 May118559f4ilsk2695.gif

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I think you're confused. There were no Christians living in the "Old Testament" days. All modern day Christians must abide by Jesus' rules:

"You have heard that it was said, `Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.'
But I tell you: Love your enemies
and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect."
(Matthew 5:43-48, NIV)

 

 

This is the core of true Christian behavior and anyone who doesn't abide by that is simply not a Christian. I can call myself President and CEO of Goldman Sachs, but if I don't work there and receive a paycheck, I'm nothing Goldman Sachs - same with true Christianity.

 

 

 

i never said that there were Christians in Old Testament days. The clue is in the word 'Christ'-ians'.

But the Old Testament is a Christian holy book, (and Jewish, and Quranic for that matter).

So onto 'true' Christianity?

Which denomination is the 'true' one then?

Who wins the most pious test?

 

Btw trying to prove any religious belief by posting a passage suggesting that a deity controls weather is a bit absurd when we know that the weather is controlled by far more easily explainable means.


"An inspirational leader...exceptionally enthusiastic, committed and motivated" OFSTED 2014.

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i never said that there were Christians in Old Testament days. The clue is in the word 'Christ'-ians'.

But the Old Testament is a Christian holy book, (and Jewish, and Quranic for that matter).

So onto 'true' Christianity?

Which denomination is the 'true' one then?

Who wins the most pious test?

 

Btw trying to prove any religious belief by posting a passage suggesting that a deity controls weather is a bit absurd when we know that the weather is controlled by far more easily explainable means.

 

Pious? It's not about works, but what's in your heart. This is a common misconception about Christianity: Too many people believe a Christian has to be affiliated with organized religion. Organized religion controls people based on what the "men on top" believe. A true Christian is a believer above all, and a person who abides by the words of Christ. End of story. I'm sure many people will disagree with me, but it is what it is.

 

The reason why I quoted the bible text is because (for the people who believe), that is what should be gone by - Not beheadings and stonings. There is a big difference between true Christianity and Muslims.

Also, when you read the old testament, you should read it in context - not take two or three verses and derive a conclusion based on it.


Skills 24/Aug/2011, IELTS OA 8.5, Submitted 175 - 11/11/11 at 1:11am!! CO: 7 May 2012Grant: 29 May118559f4ilsk2695.gif

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Guest Andy
I am confused, aren't we slightly off topic here?

 

Completely off topic, what on earth has what happened thousands of years ago got to do with the nutters of today who want to riot at the drop of a hat?

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