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Evolution

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This is a really random question, but me and Paul were talking about Evolution (as you do) and I said that we've stopped or will stop evolving soon because we've (humans on the whole) become lazy and have everything we need and want. I said if anything we'll become less intelligent because of relying on second hand things (internet, tv etc) rather than discovering things for ourselves, and then there's bad diets and smoking and drinking etc. Then there's making of tools and clothing which is why we don't have lots of hair anymore or claws! Paul thinks we'll look completely different in a million years...his reason being 'it's obvious' haha. I disagree though.

what do you guys reckon? Maybe i'm wrong....maybe we'll just have to see in the future when we're long gone!

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Guest Shell15

Love it Brit!! Well done.. this will get them going ;) lol by the way I don't believe in evolution! ooo aaar!!! there are plenty of monkeys out there but im definitely not one of them.. haha

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This is a really random question, but me and Paul were talking about Evolution (as you do) and I said that we've stopped or will stop evolving soon because we've (humans on the whole) become lazy and have everything we need and want. I said if anything we'll become less intelligent because of relying on second hand things (internet, tv etc) rather than discovering things for ourselves, and then there's bad diets and smoking and drinking etc. Then there's making of tools and clothing which is why we don't have lots of hair anymore or claws! Paul thinks we'll look completely different in a million years...his reason being 'it's obvious' haha. I disagree though.

what do you guys reckon? Maybe i'm wrong....maybe we'll just have to see in the future when we're long gone!

 

I got into a similar discussion with my son last week. He is a fountain of wisdom (or stuff he gets from the internet anyway). We got onto evolution and got stuck at why we still have apes, monkeys, chimps etc if we evolved from them. We should have Mr Neanderthal man living amongst us blah blah blah. Kinda reminded me of the time I had some acid and spent the whole night discussing Jesus landing on a space ship.

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I'm a caveman according to my ex wife,not very hairy tho........................


"The problem with neo conservative capitalism and it's insatiable greed for more wealth and disparity amongst the populace,is that it ended up being the catalyst for the great depression and modern recession"

 

Me,tonight:wubclub:

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Come on people, i want answers/opinions :P. Are you religious shell? Not that it matters at all! Just wondered why you don't believe in Evolution. I don't know why i use the word believe, because there is strong evidence to suggest we evolved, which I accept.

 

Well we don't directly come from the apes and monkeys you see today....we come from a similar species ....we are mr neandarthal men/ladies! We are amongst the others haha. There's only a 0.2 difference between us and apes you know....

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Come on people, i want answers/opinions :P. Are you religious shell? Not that it matters at all! Just wondered why you don't believe in Evolution. I don't know why i use the word believe, because there is strong evidence to suggest we evolved, which I accept.

 

Well we don't directly come from the apes and monkeys you see today....we come from a similar species ....we are mr neandarthal men/ladies! We are amongst the others haha. There's only a 0.2 difference between us and apes you know....

 

Ask me one on footy?:biggrin:better chance then,nah seriously tho,its a good thread:wubclub:,just dont want to be thinking on a sunday,its just not right somehow:no:,when ive had a smoke i might tho,deep subjects wreck my swede when ive had a smoke!:wacko:


"The problem with neo conservative capitalism and it's insatiable greed for more wealth and disparity amongst the populace,is that it ended up being the catalyst for the great depression and modern recession"

 

Me,tonight:wubclub:

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Isn't it funny how we have the most intelligent like conversations when drunk/drugged up....not that i've been on drugs! But friends! I think I got high on weed fumes once tho, there was 5 other people smoking it in the same room as me, hahaha

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Guest Shell15

Well they always seem intelligent at the time (maybe) ;)

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Or people were just too wimp to talk about them sober. Because as a kid looking intelligent was UNcool!

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I read that sir David Attenborough is of the opinion humanity is no longer evolving and I have to say I agree. Don't know if I really want to get into it in any depth on a public forum as there are many different (conflicting) views, but I think at the very least our medical advances are eliminating an element of survival of the fittest, that's to say nothing of the social support that is available in most developed countries.

Humanity will always strive to find new technology and gain new knowledge I think that's the human condition and there are still many intelligent people out there doing the research but whether humans shall evolve further? Have to admit that when I walk down my local high st devolution is the word that springs to mind . . .

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In order to know (and/or prove) that we've stopped evolving we'll have to do a retrospective analysis. Hence I'm afraid we'll need to wait quite a while before having a definitive answer :)

 

I reckon we're still evolving - but I have no empirical data to back it up :)

 

Which as a scientist means I have to admit I know nothin at all really cos I can't prove it :)


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Come on people, i want answers/opinions :P. Are you religious shell? Not that it matters at all! Just wondered why you don't believe in Evolution. I don't know why i use the word believe, because there is strong evidence to suggest we evolved, which I accept.

 

Well we don't directly come from the apes and monkeys you see today....we come from a similar species ....we are mr neandarthal men/ladies! We are amongst the others haha. There's only a 0.2 difference between us and apes you know....

 

Evolution occurs out of necessity to adapt to the environment. So for that to happen the environment needs to change dramatically. A nuclear war, an ice age triggered by a huge volcano or a large meteorite crashing into earth. That sort of thing.

 

Humans certainly dont appear to have changed much since the earliest homo sapiens, but in evoltionary terms (30 odd thousand years ago) thats still a blink of an eye. Some noticeable changes have come about through nutrition and medicine: we're taller than even a couple of generations ago, and we live too long, we used to die from heart attacks and strokes, we now die from cancer.

 

So the next quantum leap in evolution? Not sure. Webbed feet and gills?


My Brain Hurts!

 

 

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Definitely still evolving, we will evolve into humpty dumpties as our legs are no use anymore, drive everywhere lol


Petals

:ssign15:taking no prisoners :wink:

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Evolution is simply the change to fit circumstances and it's not necessary for the better, so of course we will continue to evolve. As a species we will become thinner boned, less aerobically able, smaller muscle mass, whatever, because we don't need to spend all that energy on the tools to help us survive, it's all evolution, but not necessarily survival of the fittest.

 

There's an interesting book by Dougal Dixon (actually I think there are two; After Man, and Man After Man) which postulates what humans would become if the major animals became extinct and humans evolved to fill the ecological niches.

 

The old "why are there still monkeys/chimps/apes if we evolved from them is very easy to answer; we didn't evolve from them, we all evolved from an ape-like common ancestor. Dawkin's The Ancestor's Tale (although a dry book by his standards) shows the bifurcation points - to our present knowledge - going back to archaea.


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I think we are still evolving. A couple of examples would be that as a young child, we have the ability to digest lactose, which is the sugar found in milk. Historically, the gene that controlled that would shut down after weaning, but as we begun to domesticate animals and drink milk from them, this gene Remained active in some people and was passed down so that today, something like 95% of Northern Europeans carry it.

 

Originally we would have all had brown eyes, but about 10000 years ago, a genetic mutation caused someone to have blue eyes. It is thought that blue eyes persisted because of the evolutionary pressure for a man not to invest his paternal resources in another mans child. It is virtually impossible for two blue eyed parents to have a brown eyed child (because it is a recessive gene), so blue eyed men may have sought blue eyed females to ensure that they knew the paternity of their children. Research has shown that blue eyed men tend to find blue eyed women more attractive, whereas brown eyed men and all women have less preference.

 

There is other evidence such as development in some people of resistance to diseases such as malaria or HIV, changes in brain development etc are all evidence of natural selection at work.

 

It is thought though that evolution has slowed though. The reason for this is that sperm is far more likely to carry a genetic mutation than an egg, particularly sperm from older men. It used to be the case that men reproduced throughout their lives, and had many children, until later in life, so the chances of genetic mutations were higher and would lead to evolution being driven forward. However, these days men tend to have fewer children at a younger age (men do, for women it is getting later), so the chances of those genetic mutations is lower and so evolution is slowing.

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Come on people, i want answers/opinions :P. Are you religious shell? Not that it matters at all! Just wondered why you don't believe in Evolution. I don't know why i use the word believe, because there is strong evidence to suggest we evolved, which I accept.

 

Well we don't directly come from the apes and monkeys you see today....we come from a similar species ....we are mr neandarthal men/ladies! We are amongst the others haha. There's only a 0.2 difference between us and apes you know....

 

Its funny you talk about apes as for some reason last night i watched "planet of the apes" last night! i think it will go full circle and apes will gradually take over the world again!! so basiacally we are all doooooooooooooomed!!!!!:biglaugh:

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I believe we are evolving, just as many other animals are....................that is, if our environment changes at a "manageable pace" (whatever that is). The sea is warming (in places) and fish are surviving. Live fish once available only as imports into the fish keepiyg hobby, which would have died in water of lowere ph than in nature, are now bred in captivity with their offspring surviving in much higher/lower temperatures and different ph to those found in nature. On the opposte end, fish once found in warm waters are now being found in cooler.

 

Is our ability to live longer due entirely to advances in medicine or are our organs adapting to the changes brought about since the industrial revolution? Are our antibodies eveolving to counter new invader variants?

 

Is smoking actually doing non-smokers a service by allowing them to evolve further and develop their bodies to counter the effects of smoke? ..........................just being a bt naughty there :biggrin:


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Guest Shell15
Come on people, i want answers/opinions :P. Are you religious shell? Not that it matters at all! Just wondered why you don't believe in Evolution. I don't know why i use the word believe, because there is strong evidence to suggest we evolved, which I accept.

 

Well we don't directly come from the apes and monkeys you see today....we come from a similar species ....we are mr neandarthal men/ladies! We are amongst the others haha. There's only a 0.2 difference between us and apes you know....

i was brought up by very religious parents. Im not religious but more spiritual. I was brought up not to believe in evolution and so the deep rooted teachings play a big part in it i guess. My husband and kids do believe, and we often have discussions about it.. For me i would like to think our existance is far more complex and personnel then evolution.. Who knows? Interesting topic though..

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I read that sir David Attenborough is of the opinion humanity is no longer evolving and I have to say I agree. Don't know if I really want to get into it in any depth on a public forum as there are many different (conflicting) views, but I think at the very least our medical advances are eliminating an element of survival of the fittest, that's to say nothing of the social support that is available in most developed countries.

Humanity will always strive to find new technology and gain new knowledge I think that's the human condition and there are still many intelligent people out there doing the research but whether humans shall evolve further? Have to admit that when I walk down my local high st devolution is the word that springs to mind . . .

 

do you live in Scotland or Wales?


My Brain Hurts!

 

 

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As Eera said the Ancestor's Tale by Richard Dawkins is a very good read on the subject, if a bit dry (and I say that as someone who quite likes dry books, my wife always asks what boring rubbish I'm reading at the moment).

 

I think I read in the Guardian recently that as we gain more knowledge a fair few points in the book have become obselete / modern science has disproved some of the hypotheses in the book. But it is really interesting in how closely we different creatures are related - e.g lungfish are more closely related to humans than they are to bony fish.

 

Essentially we are not "descended" from any living animal. Roughly 6m years we had a common ancestor with modern day Chimpanzees and Bonobos. No-one really knows what this creature would have looked like but we can guess. From this ancestor many creatures evolved, most became extinct, and only 3 exist today - chimps, bonobos and us. As you go further and further back you find more and more "common ancestors".

 

Forgot to say - a tip for buying cheap books in Aus. I got this book at a library sale - they were selling their old stock of. $2 for 5 books. They were selling children's books for $1 per random box of 10. Great value way of doing it - even cheaper than Amazon.

Edited by Rugby Lad

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Surely we are evolving now at a greater rate than ever before? We have just implanted the first 'bionic' eye, organ transplants have become almost 'run of the mill', and David Icke believed in the lizard king (or was that Jim Morrison?) :laugh:


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There have been evolutionary adaptations in recent history, some of which are due to cultural preferences, others down to tragic events in history. Here are a few examples.

 

Ever heard the one about Asians not being able to hold their drink? In the pre-modern era, drinking water was often unsafe. Europeans tended to brew and drink beer, as the process killed off harmful microorganisms in the water. (The expression small beer comes from that era, and was generally drunk by children.) As a consequence, selection favoured those who could process alcohol. In contrast, Asians tended to be tea drinkers (boiling water sterilised it), and so didn't have the same selective pressures put on them.

 

As an aside, tea being adopted as the British national drink allowed cities to grow rapidly during the industrial revolution.

 

I once read that the reason AIDS is less of a problem in Europe is a consequence of the Black Death! Apparently the genes that protect against the plague also confer some immunity to HIV.

 

In sport, there's a high proportion of black athletes, and some of this is unfortunately due to the slave trade. The traders selected the biggest and strongest, and these were further whittled down by the conditions on the ships across the Atlantic. Consequently the Caribbean and African-American populations tend to have more muscle (particularly the explosive fast-twitch fibres) than those of European descent.

 

Meanwhile the Kenyan marathon runners (who have a lot of slow-twitch muscle fibres) are an example of a more isolated population that has concentrated a particular set of characteristics.

 

Incidentally, before I get branded as being horribly racist for the above, I should point out that if you want to have the most healthy children possible then marry someone of a different ethnic background. Having no common ancestors within a few thousand years means that any offspring will have a greater genetic mix, and so inherited conditions are less likely.

Edited by Graemsay

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