Why are so many Britons leaving Australia?

[Paul1Perth]

It's not people who don't like Australia who make it out to be worse.......it IS changing! Its a fact! Things are a lot more expensive, fuel much dearer, property dearer, food prices a lot higher.

Since I lived here I have been through more extreme weather events than I ever had before!

 

Life don't revolve around going to the beach on every day off!!!! It's not all sunshine and roses

 

Ours mostly does and we still love it after 20 years.

[Guest Zee]

Where I live its £147 to go to the cinema but only thruppence to go to the zoo. Mind you the animals roam wild. And unemployment is 7.619% in my village which is a far better village than your village yabba yabba yabba

 

For gords sake people. Get over yourselves. This is an internet forum for info, shared experiences, banter. Get a drink

 

Brilliant! I love this stuff! :laugh:

[Guest Zee]

Yes - this is true. I think I read (may be wrong on this point) that if your spouse has done any work you are also not counted as unemployed.

 

But this ignores the major point. Anyone who bases major life-changing decisions on MACROECONOMIC data is a complete idiot. Someone who advises others to do so even more so.

 

It's not just that macroeconomic data is notorious for being subject to political manipulation but that it is far too unwieldy to relate to anybody's life. It is far more important to you that there is work in your local area, that pays enough to give you a reasonable quality of life, and gives you the chance of promotion, pay rises, new opportunities etc.

 

You see it all the time on here. Is $xxxxx enough to live in Xxxxxxx? Well how much do you earn now, how much equity will you be bringing over, where do you want to live, where are you in your working life, what do you expect to be earning in 2, 5, 10, 25 years, what pension / superannuation do you have in place?

 

Simply quoting meaningless numbers is b*ll*cks, no matter what position you are trying to prove.

Yes: another 9.6 second jobbie. I was drafted in, not so long ago acturarelily, to DEET (as it was?) to assess stats, and more importantelly, to assess the veracity of the data collection methodology.

 

I told them what they didn't want to hear,-the report was binned.

 

Don't quote stats-they're a farcycle joke.

[Harpodom]

Ours mostly does and we still love it after 20 years.

 

that must require Zen-like levels of self discipline

[Paul1Perth]

Yes - this is true. I think I read (may be wrong on this point) that if your spouse has done any work you are also not counted as unemployed.

 

But this ignores the major point. Anyone who bases major life-changing decisions on MACROECONOMIC data is a complete idiot. Someone who advises others to do so even more so.

 

It's not just that macroeconomic data is notorious for being subject to political manipulation but that it is far too unwieldy to relate to anybody's life. It is far more important to you that there is work in your local area, that pays enough to give you a reasonable quality of life, and gives you the chance of promotion, pay rises, new opportunities etc.

 

You see it all the time on here. Is $xxxxx enough to live in Xxxxxxx? Well how much do you earn now, how much equity will you be bringing over, where do you want to live, where are you in your working life, what do you expect to be earning in 2, 5, 10, 25 years, what pension / superannuation do you have in place?

 

Simply quoting meaningless numbers is b*ll*cks, no matter what position you are trying to prove.

 

I think if we tried to estimate or work out how much we will be earning in 2, 5, 10 years down the track we would never do anything. We didn't think when we emigrated that the UK would go backwards and the exchange rate and cost of housing would swing in our favour to the extent it did. Who knows what's going to happen in the next year, let alone 10. Did all the so called experts see the GFC coming?

 

I get a nasty feeling on here that a few are gloating at the moment that things seem to be cooling a little in Aus. They would love to see it slip into recession maybe then they could all jump on the told you so bandwagon.

 

Not going to be any good for the people queuing up for visas or hoping for 457 visas and sponsored employment. The government and companies can and will act fast and cut immigration targets. All those forecasts for skilled personnel shortages can change quickly.

 

Personally I think it's a bit of a storm in a tea cup and a few of the massive projects have been put on hold for a while. The minerals are still in the ground till the price is right, they aren't going anywhere. I've seen other posts on here saying that things needed to calm down in the mining sector and we shouldn't be getting rid of our natural resources so fast, leave some for future generations. So it may turn out to be a good thing and just a steady production and profit margins for the big companies over the next year or so. They don't have to earn record profits every year do they? I'm sure they would like to and Gina Rinehart would love to employ people for $2 an hour too, would mean a few billion more in her back pocket.

 

Don't start panicking just yet, give it a week or 2 and see where the iron ore price goes. We've seen the same with the oil price, up and down with disaster being predicted one week and back to lower prices the next.

[Rugby Lad]

I think if we tried to estimate or work out how much we will be earning in 2, 5, 10 years down the track we would never do anything. We didn't think when we emigrated that the UK would go backwards and the exchange rate and cost of housing would swing in our favour to the extent it did. Who knows what's going to happen in the next year, let alone 10. Did all the so called experts see the GFC coming?

 

I get a nasty feeling on here that a few are gloating at the moment that things seem to be cooling a little in Aus. They would love to see it slip into recession maybe then they could all jump on the told you so bandwagon.

 

Not going to be any good for the people queuing up for visas or hoping for 457 visas and sponsored employment. The government and companies can and will act fast and cut immigration targets. All those forecasts for skilled personnel shortages can change quickly.

 

Personally I think it's a bit of a storm in a tea cup and a few of the massive projects have been put on hold for a while. The minerals are still in the ground till the price is right, they aren't going anywhere. I've seen other posts on here saying that things needed to calm down in the mining sector and we shouldn't be getting rid of our natural resources so fast, leave some for future generations. So it may turn out to be a good thing and just a steady production and profit margins for the big companies over the next year or so. They don't have to earn record profits every year do they? I'm sure they would like to and Gina Rinehart would love to employ people for $2 an hour too, would mean a few billion more in her back pocket.

 

Don't start panicking just yet, give it a week or 2 and see where the iron ore price goes. We've seen the same with the oil price, up and down with disaster being predicted one week and back to lower prices the next.

 

Sorry mate,

 

I think you've completely misunderstood me. I was specifically saying that all this macroeconomic stuff doesn't matter at the personal level.

 

What I meant by what will you earn in 2, 5, 10, 25 years time is are you getting the new job at a level where you are looking at 5 promotions in the next 25 years or none? For example I was earning £16000 in 2000, £23000 in 2001 and £50000 in 2008 (before falling back in 2009/10) - all in the Army. That was because I got promoted.

 

You surely know when you take on a job whether you are at your career ceiling or starting out at the bottom. Right now I'm at the bottom level in my job, I get promoted on 16 Nov 12 and I'll get a fair pay rise (depending on where I'm posted to). I'll get promoted again in late 2014 and after that it's up to me to apply for specialist roles / management promotions. It doesn't take the brains of an Archbishop to think this through when you are emigrating.

 

Do I take into account the slowing of the mining boom, or Australia's seasonally adjusted GDP growth, or the unemployment rate of the entire country? No, because it just isn't that important to any one person's particular personal circumstances.

 

That was the point I was trying to make.

 

EDIT: Obviously behind the macroeconomic data there is real personal pain - esp. when discussing unemployment. I don't believe anybody wants to see people made unemployed to say "I told you so". I was unemployed from Dec 10 - Oct 11 (with a bit of shitty casual work) and I wouldn't wish it on anyone.

Edited September 5, 2012 by Rugby Lad

[Guest Zee]

Angry man. Oh the irony:wink:

 

Ah Sorry jon, when the thread moves fast and pages are turned, sometimes things are missed....

 

We haven't met, have we? If you think my posts show anger.....!!

 

As I said: this is a discussion forum. Heated is one thing, but getting angry whilst sitting in your home (generally) tapping away on a keyboard? Seriously?

 

I'm surprised that that is all it takes for some, and for the record, to date I haven't 'met' any nasty pasty on this site. Not one.

[starlight7]

I think the people on here are remarkably pleasant and certainly very supportive if someone is in trouble or going through a hard time. Should look at some other forums- now THERE are some nasty pastys!

[Guest guest36187]

Ours mostly does and we still love it after 20 years.

 

I moved to Australia and couldn't give a four x about beaches!

[Paul1Perth]

I moved to Australia and couldn't give a four x about beaches!

 

So in your case Joanne it wouldn't really matter that that "Life don't revolve around going to the beach on every day off!" like you said in an earlier post.

I was just pointing out that those that do like it can. Not compulsory or anything. I know a few people who don't like the beach, not many as we live in a beachy suburb, so there wouldn't be much point living that close if you're really not bothered about it. Cheaper options away from the beach.

[Guest guest36187]

Doesn't matter to me who likes what! Borin world if we were all the same. Was just stating that it doesn't bother me, nothing more.

 

I hope that those who love it do it. I know my parents are always off to mooloolabah for coffee, cake and just to walk on the sand. I'm a hinterland girl myself. I tend to find myself doing what I did in uk. Still have house to clean, shopping to do, errands to run, studies to do, work ive brought home...lol

Edited September 5, 2012 by guest36187

[Guest Shell15]

because the sausages are (apparently) not nice? Or perhaps maybe the lemons are too expensive..?

[VERYSTORMY]

I think if we tried to estimate or work out how much we will be earning in 2, 5, 10 years down the track we would never do anything. We didn't think when we emigrated that the UK would go backwards and the exchange rate and cost of housing would swing in our favour to the extent it did. Who knows what's going to happen in the next year, let alone 10. Did all the so called experts see the GFC coming?

 

I get a nasty feeling on here that a few are gloating at the moment that things seem to be cooling a little in Aus. They would love to see it slip into recession maybe then they could all jump on the told you so bandwagon.

 

Not going to be any good for the people queuing up for visas or hoping for 457 visas and sponsored employment. The government and companies can and will act fast and cut immigration targets. All those forecasts for skilled personnel shortages can change quickly.

 

Personally I think it's a bit of a storm in a tea cup and a few of the massive projects have been put on hold for a while. The minerals are still in the ground till the price is right, they aren't going anywhere. I've seen other posts on here saying that things needed to calm down in the mining sector and we shouldn't be getting rid of our natural resources so fast, leave some for future generations. So it may turn out to be a good thing and just a steady production and profit margins for the big companies over the next year or so. They don't have to earn record profits every year do they? I'm sure they would like to and Gina Rinehart would love to employ people for $2 an hour too, would mean a few billion more in her back pocket.

 

Don't start panicking just yet, give it a week or 2 and see where the iron ore price goes. We've seen the same with the oil price, up and down with disaster being predicted one week and back to lower prices the next.

 

I disagree. I dont think there is anyone on here to gloat. Certainly not from those of us in the industry as it is going to have a negative impact on us all. Even those in fairly safe roles as i know my boss is already thinking he wont have to give a pay rise next year because i am a lot less likely to leave and if i did there are now candidates to replace me.

 

I think it is a lot bigger than a storm in a tea cup. This isnt news to a lot of us, as it started some months ago. It wasnt just the artifical floor of $110 for the iron ore price being breached, it was a clear slowing in demand from China was happening. I noticed it around March.

 

I have just come from a meeting with one of the senior management and it was mentioned that 3 months ago getting drill rigs was hard and you had to be prepared to either wait or offer large amounts of cash. This week we have already taken 3 calls from drilling companies asking if we would like a rig.

 

Its not all just about the price of iron or other metals either. There have been a lot of mutterings in the industry for a long time about the costs of exploring and mining here and the over zealous burocracy involved. I think the two coming together has just provided a perfect storm.

 

Lots of the companies are saying that it is no longer worth the hassle in Oz as it was when things were going really well in prices, but its now changed. The result is a huge amount are pulling out of Oz and taking projects in other countries. China also seems to be keen. I was working in central Africa until April and it was interesting how the plane from Uganda and Ethiopia was packed with Chinese mining engineers.

 

I wasnt shocked by it. As when i arrived in Oz 4 years ago and went on site to discover truckies were getting close to $100k a year it was obvios it wasnt sustainable. Its not just wages either.

 

I have to drill a project before Christmas. It is on an active mine site, about 200m from a very big hole in the ground and next to a waste dump. However, i still have to submit a POW to the mines dept to gain permission. That will take upto 8 weeks to come back. I then need to gain heritage and environmental clearance which will take 4 weeks if i am lucky. The costs in sumitting this are substantial. There is also a risk in them refusing for no other reason than they can. At which point you just re submit and they normally then approve. Then i can start drilling at $400 a meter.

 

Or i can take a piece of ground in say Peru, not have a fraction of the paperwork, the goverment will do my enviro clearance for me and the dril cost is $180 per meter.

 

Not brain surgery

As for if it is a good thing? I dont know. I, personaly dont think so as the game is well known that when a place is abandoned for one reason or another by mining companies it takes a long time to get them back interested.

[Eera]

I have to drill a project before Christmas. It is on an active mine site, about 200m from a very big hole in the ground and next to a waste dump. However, i still have to submit a POW to the mines dept to gain permission. That will take upto 8 weeks to come back. I then need to gain heritage and environmental clearance which will take 4 weeks if i am lucky. The costs in sumitting this are substantial. There is also a risk in them refusing for no other reason than they can. At which point you just re submit and they normally then approve. Then i can start drilling at $400 a meter.

 

Or i can take a piece of ground in say Peru, not have a fraction of the paperwork, the goverment will do my enviro clearance for me and the dril cost is $180 per meter.

 

 

 

Alleluia! One of my major jobs recently was an 18 week investigation which started about 5 years ago with the plan that we'd be in and out, do the geotech, prestrip would start the next year and coal would be cut in 2012.

 

Enter environmental and cultural clearance. I'll point out this site is a cow property that has be chain-cleared for over 100 years (huge chains strung between a pair of dozers and dragged to knock over the scrub) and is sandwiched between two other mines. Cultural clearance took 4 *years*, we've been back pretty much full time since that last 18 weeks contract having to re-do the drilling for various contractural reasons, it's put the project 6 years behind schedule, our bill alone was in the order of 3 million bucks, and we are small fry on site.

 

You're right about the sudden availability of drill rigs; I've got a job on at the moment which the client is insisting on down hole hammer rather than coring (because they're thick and can't see something that destroys the sample is no good for RQD) and we are getting prices as low as $9 per meter from various companies.

[TheGreatDane]

I've got a Ping Pong Pom on my team and had to re-employ him as he moved the family out to Oz 6 months ago but failed to find suitable employment.

 

Personally, I've applied for a De Facto Visa so I can leave this sinking ship!

[legoman]

I've got a Ping Pong Pom on my team and had to re-employ him as he moved the family out to Oz 6 months ago but failed to find suitable employment.

 

Personally, I've applied for a De Facto Visa so I can leave this sinking ship!

 

 

 

 

 

 

That ships been sinking for an awfully long time, interesting that my aussie pal says the same about Oz and wants to ove to the......usa

[MARYROSE02]

I wonder when Australia is going to copy the UK (and USA) and have a few banking failures. Even the present Labor Govt, incompetent as it is, has not achieved that yet.

[Jacaranda]

Unemployment is almost half in Australia to what it is in the UK, so whatever the figures are, it's far better in the land of plenty downunder. Yer can't believe the serveys anyway, apparently there's a big conspiracy against the UK and in favour of Oz, lol.

Well it would be half,because the UK has alot more people.Actually for Australia,thats pretty high!

[MARYROSE02]

Its 5% in Australia and over 8% in the UK, nearly half like I said. I have said many times the UK has a lot to offer, but it's better in Australia according to facts and figures.

 

Sod the facts. We just want to read a good story - preferably a fantasy - set in Australia.

[wakeboard1980]

Well it would be half,because the UK has alot more people.Actually for Australia,thats pretty high!

 

I don't understand your post. What has the number or people in each country go to do with the percentages? It's a percentage of unemployed not an actual number.

[northshorepom]

I wonder when Australia is going to copy the UK (and USA) and have a few banking failures. Even the present Labor Govt, incompetent as it is, has not achieved that yet.

 

Not going to happen, for three reasons: Firstly they are much smaller outfits with much less exposure to investment banking risk, secondly they never did a "Northern Rock" and borrowed cheap money wholesale on short term capital markets to lend long term as mortgages (all the banking failures in the rest of the world fall into one of these categories and mostly the first), thirdly the government gave them an explicit guarantee to cover people' deposits to 100% in the GFC, and this still stands. In fact the last of these is the reason the Aus banks mostly have a AAA rating (some are AA or AA+ from memory but I haven't checked recently), it probably notches them a coupe of ratings points higher because lending to them is much lower risk as a result.

 

One of the better policy decisions by this government as it has undoubtedly cushioned the country from some of the effects of the GFC elsewhere, but it wasn't a policy avenue open to governments of larger countries and in fairness, at the time it wasn't without its own risks

 

Doesn't stop the banks making out it's their superb management and foresight was behind them not being big enough to be exposed to dodgy US paper, and is behind their credit ratings now, but hey, that's business!

[amibovered]

Not going to happen, for three reasons: Firstly they are much smaller outfits with much less exposure to investment banking risk, secondly they never did a "Northern Rock" and borrowed cheap money wholesale on short term capital markets to lend long term as mortgages (all the banking failures in the rest of the world fall into one of these categories and mostly the first), thirdly the government gave them an explicit guarantee to cover people' deposits to 100% in the GFC, and this still stands. In fact the last of these is the reason the Aus banks mostly have a AAA rating (some are AA or AA+ from memory but I haven't checked recently), it probably notches them a coupe of ratings points higher because lending to them is much lower risk as a result.

 

One of the better policy decisions by this government as it has undoubtedly cushioned the country from some of the effects of the GFC elsewhere, but it wasn't a policy avenue open to governments of larger countries and in fairness, at the time it wasn't without its own risks

 

Doesn't stop the banks making out it's their superb management and foresight was behind them not being big enough to be exposed to dodgy US paper, and is behind their credit ratings now, but hey, that's business!

 

Not everyone would agree with you it seems, they were talking about this on ABC radio yesterday

http://www.smh.com.au/business/warning-after-the-boom-itll-be-dutch-and-go-20120829-2513n.html

[Dan Collins]

I wonder when Australia is going to copy the UK (and USA) and have a few banking failures. Even the present Labor Govt, incompetent as it is, has not achieved that yet.

 

Let's hope not.

 

A long time ago, that happened; in Victoria, WA... This was one of the reasons the 'six pillars policy' was created.

 

Actually it was a Labor policy, though please don't take this as any endorsement as I don't do politics. This stopped a large 'pillar' bank taking over another pillar and drastically reducing competition, and increases a failure risk to the economy. Something that DID happen in the UK and, well, you know the rest. AMP and National Mutual (as it was known then) were taken out in the late 90s and it became the 'four pillars policy'. There was much argument at the time the policy was too restrictive, but perhaps with hindsight, it was good it was never dismantled completely. Having said that, CBA snaffled Bankwest from HBOS in 2008. This was a big WA concern and in some way, a pillar at the time, for that state.

 

So, there you go. The risk is always there, don't get me wrong, but the strength of the pillars in Aus (relative the world) brings confidence to the average person on the street. In fact, during the run up in the GFC, there were no guarantees on bank accounts. I don't think Aussies even contemplated they could lose their money until very late in the day. Working now in the UK, I think the policy remains a key strength to the Aus banking system. It's not impossible, but at least there's a plan to reduce any contagion.

 

Cheers

[Guest Zee]

That ships been sinking for an awfully long time, interesting that my aussie pal says the same about Oz and wants to ove to the......usa

 

Good point. Grass/ green/ hill !!

[VERYSTORMY]

Not going to happen, for three reasons: Firstly they are much smaller outfits with much less exposure to investment banking risk, secondly they never did a "Northern Rock" and borrowed cheap money wholesale on short term capital markets to lend long term as mortgages (all the banking failures in the rest of the world fall into one of these categories and mostly the first), thirdly the government gave them an explicit guarantee to cover people' deposits to 100% in the GFC, and this still stands. In fact the last of these is the reason the Aus banks mostly have a AAA rating (some are AA or AA+ from memory but I haven't checked recently), it probably notches them a coupe of ratings points higher because lending to them is much lower risk as a result.

 

One of the better policy decisions by this government as it has undoubtedly cushioned the country from some of the effects of the GFC elsewhere, but it wasn't a policy avenue open to governments of larger countries and in fairness, at the time it wasn't without its own risks

 

Doesn't stop the banks making out it's their superb management and foresight was behind them not being big enough to be exposed to dodgy US paper, and is behind their credit ratings now, but hey, that's business!

 

I would say the banks here are in some of the worst shape of any country. They are fine if unemployment stays low. But, Australia has one of the highest levels of household dbt in the world. If unemployment rises, there are going to be a lot of strain on banks. The lending practices of most make the worst sub prime lenders look frugal. Mortgage levels in Oz are routinly so high that as a proportion of salary they would in many other countries be automatically regarded as mortgage stress.