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bonza2211

ENS subclass 186 - (Transition vs Direct Entry)

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Hi Guys,

 

I have reviewed the SkillSelect system that has been introduced and see the following options for me to get PR :

 

1. Transition Stream - Pretty straight up.

 

PRO - Pretty much a win under the newly announced rules, employer absorbs costs.

CON - I become "eligible" to apply for the Transition stream on 16/07/2013 if I stay with the same employer

 

  • My 457 was granted ONSHORE on 16/07/2011 and I have been with the same employer since.
  • Employer is eligible for sponsorship and I have aready discussed te possibility for when the time comes
  • New CSOL has my nominated occupation for the 457 (i.e. I can nominate the same occupation which was approved for 457)

 

2. Direct Entry - Ambiguos as to whether I will be eligile even

PRO - Possibly get PR sooner and get my personal life on track

CON - I understand I need to submit a skill assessment, Need EOI fulfilled, costs and ambiguity

 

 

  • Age : 29.4
  • Education : Masters in Marketing from the University of Sydney completed Dec 2011.
  • Work experience : 1.5 years relevant Austrlian work experience. 3 years work experience in Asia prior to starting my Masters in 2010.
  • IELTS score : 8.5 (expired)

 

 

I plan on finding a sound Migration Agent/Lawyer to discuss my situation, however I aware that there are some reputed agents on here such as Raul who tell it like it is and will enable me to understand what things really mean.

 

Waiting to apply under the Transition stream is a good year away but high chance of things going smoothly and economically viable. However it leaves me battling my personal life due to curtailed freedom.

 

If applying under Direct Entry is a viable option and will see me even save 6-8 months in the process towards becoming Permanent I an live with the ambiguity and costs as it means a whole lot to me.

 

Your thoughts?

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I can't help much but I'm interested in hearing what responses you receive on here.

 

I'm in a similar position, my 2 years on 457 visa will be up Jan 2013 and work have confirmed that they will be willing to sponsor me for PR at that point. However, my concern is that there could be any number of unknown changes made by Dept of Immi during that time and I'd like to try and get PR sooner rather than later.

 

However, my dilema is that I doubt I'd pass a skills assessment for my 457 nominated occupation (spec Manager) and I'm not even sure it's on the CSOL list. However, my past work experience is as a Loss Adjuster, which is on the CSOL list and I'm sure I can jump through the relevant hoops to get a positive skills assessment for Loss Adjuster. I'd be interested to find out if it is possible to nominate for a different occupation when applying throught the Direct Entry stream (as to what is noted on your 457 visa)? In fact I would say that the work I am doing just now relates more closely to Loss Adjuster than Spec Manager in any event...

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Hey mate,

 

No worries lets hope we have some of the reputed agents who post frequently will give us some feedback.

 

My idea with this thread is to get some basic ground work before approaching a lawyer. However in your case it is a question of 4 months (16 saturdays!!) and rules will not change during this time. The usual cycle is July 1st every year. I'v to wait a full calender year which is a bit scary and in limbo not to mention causing my relationship to be stressed out.

 

If I was in your place I'd get my paperwork started and apply in Jan under the transition :)

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Direct entry - if employer agrees to sponsor you, you need the SKills Assessment and 3 years experience - which you have.

 

IELTS now valid for 3 years.

 

Was you still studying while working on your 457?

 

Also for Skills assessments and DIAC they usually use post qualification work experience as the criteria.

 

You need the full facts of your case reviewed by a Registered Migration Agent, agents that post on the forum do not usually give individual migration advice - but general information to questions.

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Hey mate,

 

No worries lets hope we have some of the reputed agents who post frequently will give us some feedback.

 

My idea with this thread is to get some basic ground work before approaching a lawyer. However in your case it is a question of 4 months (16 saturdays!!) and rules will not change during this time. The usual cycle is July 1st every year. I'v to wait a full calender year which is a bit scary and in limbo not to mention causing my relationship to be stressed out.

 

If I was in your place I'd get my paperwork started and apply in Jan under the transition :)

 

Sorry, my post should have said January 2014... so I have 16 months to wait and we all know that Dept of Immi changes can scupper everyones best laid plans!

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Sorry, my post should have said January 2014... so I have 16 months to wait and we all know that Dept of Immi changes can scupper everyones best laid plans!

It may be worth speaking to a registered migration agent as Im sure your occupation needs to be on SOL 1 or CSOL to be able to be sponsored under ENS.

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Direct entry - if employer agrees to sponsor you, you need the SKills Assessment and 3 years experience - which you have.

 

IELTS now valid for 3 years.

 

I took the IETLS in April 2009, so its past 3 years now. This is not an issue for me, Im pretty confidant I can replicate the 8.5 (as I have got this score twice in the past).

 

Was you still studying while working on your 457?

 

 

Yes.

 

--I entered Australia on a student visa in February 2010

--I started part time work in March 2011 with my present employer

--I was sponsored by the same Employer to go fulltime and my 457 was approved on 16/Jul/2011

--I completed one unit of study while on my 457 to successfully recieve my Masters in Marketing.

 

Also for Skills assessments and DIAC they usually use post qualification work experience as the criteria.

 

ShouldI then be concerned? As Post-qualification I only about a year (on the 457). However I am well above the average salary, have shown accelerated growth in my workplace with an employer willing to sponsor me.

 

You need the full facts of your case reviewed by a Registered Migration Agent, agents that post on the forum do not usually give individual migration advice - but general information to questions.

 

Most definately would do so. Just trying to gather whatever I need before hnd and have a fruitful consultation when Im there.

 

Also I think having a consultation from one of the Agents present on this board will motivate them to continue to provide advice to those in need.

 

Thank you very much for yor inputs :notworthy:

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Hi All

 

I'm keen to join this discussion as I've just realised that what, I thought, was about to be a straightforward process has now got rather complicated. I'm here under my husband's 457 visa and have been in the same job for 6 months now. I asked my employer to nominate my position so that I could apply for PR under the ENS scheme, but I see that its all changed. I'm not yet eligible for the Transition Scheme, having only been in post 6 months, but also the Direct Entry option says that I'm not eligible if I already hold a 457 visa???!

 

Does anyone else understand how the Direct Entry thing is meant to work and how someone who is offshore with no visa can be eligible, while someone with a visa in a job is not?

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Hi All

 

I'm keen to join this discussion as I've just realised that what, I thought, was about to be a straightforward process has now got rather complicated. I'm here under my husband's 457 visa and have been in the same job for 6 months now. I asked my employer to nominate my position so that I could apply for PR under the ENS scheme, but I see that its all changed. I'm not yet eligible for the Transition Scheme, having only been in post 6 months, but also the Direct Entry option says that I'm not eligible if I already hold a 457 visa???!

 

Does anyone else understand how the Direct Entry thing is meant to work and how someone who is offshore with no visa can be eligible, while someone with a visa in a job is not?

 

Hi MrsMoo !

 

Where did you get that a 457 visa holder CANNOT apply under ENS186-Direct Entry?

 

The reason i ask is that there is a possibility that the wording on the IMMI website is ambiguos...

 

Excerpts below from the following doc - http://www.immi.gov.au/skilled/skilled-workers/_pdf/perm-sponsored-reforms.pdf

 

The Direct Entry stream is for applicants who are untested in the

Australian labour market and have not held a subclass 457 for at least

the last two years or are applying directly from outside Australia.

 

The above can lead the reader to believe that those on the 457 CANNOT apply. However it seems they are simply saying that it is an option for those who havent held it "for atleast 2 years". Further it states "or are applying directly from outside Australia" - which indicates onshore applicants are acceptable. This leads me to believe that even those on a 457 who satisfy the CSOL/IELTS/EOI and other requirements can apply. Will need a lawyer to confirm.

 

 

The Direct Entry stream will be for visa applicants outside Australia or who are

not able to apply under the Temporary Residence Transition stream, for

example, international students.

 

The above suggests that international students can apply. This means those in the country or possibly even on the old 485 (TR) visa.

 

Employers who apply through ENS Direct Entry will need to demonstrate:

-the business is actively and lawfully operating in Australia

-the position is full-time and available to the prospective migrant for

at least two years

-the nominated occupation is on the new consolidated sponsored

occupation list

-the prospective migrant will be paid the ‘market rate’. That is, the

nominee will be paid at least as much as an Australian employed in

the same position in the same location

-the employer provides training to Australians.

 

To me the new 186 ENS Visa appeas a lot more streamlined than before however it maybe more difficult to actually secure PR. Time will tell.

 

I hope to see a lawyer shortly and will post back in the next few weeks.

Edited by bonza2211
Edited links

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Disclaimer : I AM NOT SURE IF THE BELOW APPLIES TO SKILLSELECT POST JULY 2012.

 

Points test calculator - http://www.harriswake.com/skillselectpointscalculator

 

I'v scored 80 in the above calculator, this is based on my previous IELTS score of 8.5

Also need to check the ceiling on my intended occupation nomination inthe CSOL.

 

Also below is the SkillSelect Invitations to apply to migrate - Round 1 August 2012 Results :

http://www.immi.gov.au/skills/skillselect/index/report-2012-08/

Edited by bonza2211

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Hi MrsMoo !

 

Where did you get that a 457 visa holder CANNOT apply under ENS186-Direct Entry?

 

The reason i ask is that there is a possibility that the wording on the IMMI website is ambiguos...

 

Excerpts below from the following doc - http://www.immi.gov.au/skilled/skilled-workers/_pdf/perm-sponsored-reforms.pdf

 

 

 

The above can lead the reader to believe that those on the 457 CANNOT apply. However it seems they are simply saying that it is an option for those who havent held it "for atleast 2 years". Further it states "or are applying directly from outside Australia" - which indicates onshore applicants are acceptable. This leads me to believe that even those on a 457 who satisfy the CSOL/IELTS/EOI and other requirements can apply. Will need a lawyer to confirm.

 

 

 

 

Hi Bonza

 

It was exactly this wording from the govt website that has put the cat among the pigeons. My employer had said they'd be happy to sponsor me but then came back quoting this section directly saying that, because I had a 457 visa already, I wouldn't be eligible. Since then I've been trying to figure out whether it was just ambiguously worded not least because it would make no sense that you could go straight to PR from nothing but if you have a visa and a job you're scuppered!

 

Unfortunately I still haven't found anything concrete and I need to do so if I am to convince my employer that their money won't be wasted.

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You can apply for direct entry if you are in the country on a 457, this is the option for people who have held it for less than two years - and so are not eligable for the temporary residence stream. This is what it says on the immigration site:

 

Choose the Direct Entry stream if you have never, or only briefly, worked in the Australian labour market and have not held a subclass 457 visa for the last two years, or if you are applying directly from outside Australia.

 

We are in the process, applying onshore, through this stream - so I know it is definately possible.

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Hi all, I spoke briefly with a migration agent. If you read my other post, I was also on a 457 in almost exactly two years working, but shifted to another employer.

Hence my ability to apply for the first stream got invalid as I need to work for another two years on my new company, though I have already worked for two years my previous employer, under same work category. I hope in the future, this can be taken into consideration as I reckon some people out there would be on my same shoes who shifted employer and now cannot apply for PR without being assessed with their skill, required for a higher English mark etc... though you already have demonstrated 2 years or more on the 457.

 

The migration agent suggestion was to have my skills assessed, then apply under direct entry. I also raised the same concern, because the immi wordings are straight forward that it is for those who are untested on AU market and have not held a 457. So, I will let you know if I become successful on this.

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Hi Bonza

 

It was exactly this wording from the govt website that has put the cat among the pigeons. My employer had said they'd be happy to sponsor me but then came back quoting this section directly saying that, because I had a 457 visa already, I wouldn't be eligible. Since then I've been trying to figure out whether it was just ambiguously worded not least because it would make no sense that you could go straight to PR from nothing but if you have a visa and a job you're scuppered!

 

Unfortunately I still haven't found anything concrete and I need to do so if I am to convince my employer that their money won't be wasted.

 

MrsMoo, you need to do what I intend. Gather every concievable piece of information that can assist your application, prepare a mock file and locate a reputed Migration lawyer. Get their opinion it will cost you anywhere between 100-300$ for a consultation.

 

Then go back to your employer and let them know what you have found out.

 

In my case our firm has a Migration agent that they have regularly used in the past. Still I want to do my homework and be able to take swift action.

 

Also the posts from the members below indicate that individuals such as you and me MAYBE eligible to apply for the Direct Stream if we meet all criteria.

 

You can apply for direct entry if you are in the country on a 457, this is the option for people who have held it for less than two years - and so are not eligable for the temporary residence stream. This is what it says on the immigration site:

 

Choose the Direct Entry stream if you have never, or only briefly, worked in the Australian labour market and have not held a subclass 457 visa for the last two years, or if you are applying directly from outside Australia.

 

We are in the process, applying onshore, through this stream - so I know it is definately possible.

 

Thank you. These were my thoughts too. Are you applying via an agency?

 

Hi all, I spoke briefly with a migration agent. If you read my other post, I was also on a 457 in almost exactly two years working, but shifted to another employer.

Hence my ability to apply for the first stream got invalid as I need to work for another two years on my new company, though I have already worked for two years my previous employer, under same work category. I hope in the future, this can be taken into consideration as I reckon some people out there would be on my same shoes who shifted employer and now cannot apply for PR without being assessed with their skill, required for a higher English mark etc... though you already have demonstrated 2 years or more on the 457.

 

The migration agent suggestion was to have my skills assessed, then apply under direct entry. I also raised the same concern, because the immi wordings are straight forward that it is for those who are untested on AU market and have not held a 457. So, I will let you know if I become successful on this.

 

I will look into your other post, thanks for that. It would be good for us to have updates n your progress or experience in this regard.

 

Still no sign of any registered agents on this thread, however it sees like there will be a few of us who can contribute as time goes by.

 

Good luck!

Bonza +_+

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We're doing our own application as it is pretty straight forward for us, we are being sponsored by a very well established employer who often goes through this process as they tend to 'import' certain skills regularly, and they don't mind doing it as people don't tend to leave as soon as they have it. For this reason the HR dept are very up to speed on the rules/regs etc, and have been able to guide us through the process very smoothly. I understand we are very lucky to be in this situation, I don't get the impression that other employers are necessarily so up to date on the ENS process, possibly because they don't do it so often I guess.

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We're doing our own application as it is pretty straight forward for us, we are being sponsored by a very well established employer who often goes through this process as they tend to 'import' certain skills regularly, and they don't mind doing it as people don't tend to leave as soon as they have it. For this reason the HR dept are very up to speed on the rules/regs etc, and have been able to guide us through the process very smoothly. I understand we are very lucky to be in this situation, I don't get the impression that other employers are necessarily so up to date on the ENS process, possibly because they don't do it so often I guess.

 

Thank you for responding quickly!

 

My employer has a very large number of 457 sponsorships and an in-house lawyer who has handled the paperwork. They have handled a couple of ENS under the old syste, In any case I am meticulous with my paperwork and would doble and cross check ;)

 

I would be very keen on getting more information from you as time progresses. I already have a number of questions but wont badger you right away. If you dont mind posting your experience here would be beneficial as the first wave of applicants on this forum for the ENS 186 direct entry.

 

Good luck!

Bonza

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If you dont mind posting your experience here would be beneficial as the first wave of applicants on this forum for the ENS 186 direct entry.

 

Good luck!

Bonza

 

Another First Fleet :)

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Another First Fleet :)

 

I have always been part of "maiden voyages" or Guinea pig batches and life has been good so very keen to jump on this new bandwagon too !!

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My latest finding is the Occupation ceilings. Make's sense to know the quota and track how many invitations are being issued monthly.

 

The august preliminary report - http://www.immi.gov.au/skills/skillselect/index/report-2012-08/ doesn't show 186 invitations. Will wait on the actual report to provide the deep dive on the August figures.

 

Staying positive for now and gathering paperwork before I goto see a lawyer!

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I dropped my request for PR for now, it's a bit unfair I suppose. Perhaps in few months or next year, the government will realize that they have not considered people like me who have been 2years on previous employer who shifted to another one, now we do not a proper category stream to go through except on a direct stream which is meant for beginners in AU market. I feel that is a bit unfair as I need to have my skills assessed and a higher IELTS points required, where as we would theoretically are the same with those eligible to the temporary resident stream.

Good luck to all the rest pushing....hope you make it.

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Sorry to hear that Ports, I guess as the system I so new there will be these kind if issues. I hope to see you back here having been successful in the future.

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I dropped my request for PR for now, it's a bit unfair I suppose. Perhaps in few months or next year, the government will realize that they have not considered people like me who have been 2years on previous employer who shifted to another one, now we do not a proper category stream to go through except on a direct stream which is meant for beginners in AU market. I feel that is a bit unfair as I need to have my skills assessed and a higher IELTS points required, where as we would theoretically are the same with those eligible to the temporary resident stream.

Good luck to all the rest pushing....hope you make it.

 

That is unfortunate.

 

what exactly happened if you dont mind me asking?

 

Also a lot of the best talent never made it to australia because of their stupid policies time and again, those who exploited "loopholes" are now citizens and Australia still battles for quality.

 

Dont worry there maybe better things in store for you!

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I dropped my request for PR for now, it's a bit unfair I suppose. Perhaps in few months or next year, the government will realize that they have not considered people like me who have been 2years on previous employer who shifted to another one, now we do not a proper category stream to go through except on a direct stream which is meant for beginners in AU market. I feel that is a bit unfair as I need to have my skills assessed and a higher IELTS points required, where as we would theoretically are the same with those eligible to the temporary resident stream.

Good luck to all the rest pushing....hope you make it.

 

I cannot see what is "unfair". It is up to DIAC what criteria they set and there is no point whining about something being unfair just because you don't qualify for a particular visa in a particular stream. You have changed your employer and thus made yourself ineligible for a particular stream, so there is another stream you can apply under. The direct entry stream. What more do you want? You left your employer, if you want to chop and change employers then you should have applied for a PR visa from the start. Stop whining and get on with what you need to do.

 

There is a load of guff being written on this thread that because you have been on a 457 you cannot apply for direct entry. Complete guff. Of course you can.

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Er, I think I have already stated that you can apply for the direct entry while on a 457 - on this thread! I know, because I've done it!! So not all 'quaff' being written on here...

 

I believe the complication occurs becasue you cannot apply for direct entry if you have held a 457 for more than 2 years. Direct entry is an avenue for less than 2 years in total with any employer - at least I understand this to be the case. Ports may come on and clarify, since they have presumably had everything clarfied.

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