Warning, it's a whinge

[KazzE]

I am sorry, this is long

 

Just call me the crappest mother in the world, cos I am, I can't get my daughter to see that Melbourne is a good move for her, for all of us. So I am probably going to end up leaving her behind in the UK.

 

My DD is still insisting that she wants to stay in the UK she says it is because the course she wants to study is in UK not Melbourne. She wants to do an English lit degree, in Melbourne they have just introduced the Melbourne model, which looks good to me, but you do majors and minors so it would not be just English lit, it would include what they call breadth subjects which they have to choose from a list of eight.

 

My first dilemma is that if I insist that she comes with us and does the degree in Melbourne, she will hate it and not do as well as she could do, it may have a detrimental affect on her future (not sure how but that is my fear)

 

The UK degree will end up costing her around £25,000 by the time she pays, tuition fee’s of 3,000 and gets a maintainance loan.

And takes 3 years

 

The Oz degree could cost her as little as $20,000 if she gets a CS place her fee’s each year will around $5,000 (she has missed a CS place for the first semester so at the moment her fees’s are $16,000 for the first year)

And takes 4 years.

 

My biggest stress is that she has gone and put a holding deposit on a house to share with two friends. ARRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH

:arghh::arghh:

The problem I have with this is she cannot afford this, she is not working at all and has enough saving to cover the deposit, first months rent and possably the second months rent. Even if she got a job tomorrow she would be luck to get paid before the second months rent is due.

 

She rang me and told me about it, I told her not to hand over any money until we had looked into it properly and she knew exactly what she was doing. So I am very mad about this. She needs a guarantor; I said I did not know if we would be able to this if we are not in the country. Her friend’s mum is acting as guarantor for all three of them – and no she (the friends mum) did not ring me to discuss this.

 

I do not have a problem with her moving out – BUT she is moving out with no money, no job and we are planning to leave the country as soon as we can so she will not have any support, emotionally or practical. I don’t think she has any idea of how hard it is going to be working and being responsible for everything, paying bills, cooking, cleaning etc

 

I want us all to move to Melbourne as a family, I do not see that I am asking for too much for her to do her degree in Oz, it is a world ranking Uni, the arts dept is 17th in the world league tables or at least to give it a go, a semester or even the first year, is she really does hate it then we would help her to move back and continue in the UK.

 

My choices as I see it are:

 

Move to Melbourne when the house sells and leave her behind living in her rented house with her friends. – Very, very hard to do, very stressful, especially if anything horrible happens (trying not to frighten myself with this one) will make it very hard for me to settle.

 

Wait until I am happy that she is coping with Uni and looking after herself, I can’t see this happening until at least this time next year – so it could mean taking the house off the market or going into rented accommodation ourselves.

 

Not go at all until she graduates – this could seriously jepordise our PR status.

 

We have had several very stressful conversations over the last couple of days which have wiped me out, she is getting very upset and crying saying she does not want to stop us doing what we want to but she want s to stay here, she does not want to go to Australia, the course is not what she wants etc etc

 

My sis says get her out here and hide the return ticket!

 

It would be good to get out there before we have to accept her place at Melbourne so that she can have a look at the Uni and talk to people so that she has a proper idea of what it will be like, as she did with UK Uni’s BUT at the moment she is refusing to do this.

And there are very few flights, any I can find are over £1000 each and even then there do not appear to be any before the end of Jan.

 

My brain is mush, my eyes are on stalks, I don’t know how I am still up, except I do, I have just been speaking to my sister so I am a bit wound up.

 

Sorry, whinging again

 

I never thought I would be in this situation, I thought my DD would not stay if we were going...................

 

 

 

:wubclub:

[Quoll]

You are absolutely not the crappiest mother in the world so do not lay that on yourself!!! You are a loving caring mum who thinks they are doing the best for their daughter but whose daughter is flexing her wings and wanting to fly by herself. It happens to us all at some time.

 

You wont want to hear what I think but here goes nevertheless. You have buckleys of forcing kids to do what you want them to do once they become teenagers and at 18 she is going to want to be pretty much in charge of her own destiny. I would accept her decision and leave her to it. Emotional blackmail or any other sort of blackmail to get her to change her mind is not going to work and is going to screw up any relationship you may have with her in the future so dont even go there. Draw a line under this and say OK, that is your decision, how can we help you (because she is still your daughter and you love her!!!!!)? then sit down and make a plan with her about social and emotional support networks, financial planning etc. In the long run she may want to come and join you - she may not.

 

Personally I would go with a UK degree every day of the week - unless it is the University of Lower Basingstoke of course (I assume it is a good rep uni?). Three years for an honours degree compared with 4 years here and a totally focussed degree compared with one which can have units of varying mickey mouse-ness. No, if she has a good uni in mind in UK then I really believe that is a better option.

 

You can leave her there, she will grow up quickly and take responsibility for her own actions - it looks as if you have actually been an excellent mother because you have raised an intelligent, thinking, independent girl who knows what she wants and is well on her way to achieving her goals! If she had been a girl who thought she would move in with her boyfriend and may try and get a job at Tescos then I would be taking a different tack (how judgemental of me!)

 

I have one son in UK - he did his degree here and went for a gap year but job prospects were far better for him there than they are here so he never came back!

 

I have another son who chucked in a full scholarship medical degree after his first degree only to go and be self sufficient in the bush and have a relationship which has seen the arrival of our first granddaughter. You can imagine how I felt about all of that!!!!

 

What I am trying to say is that parental disappointment when your kids dont do what you want them to do is awful but bottom line - it's their lives, if we have raised them right then they will make a good fist of their lives whatever that may look like!

 

Meanwhile, major hugs to you because what you need to do is probably one of the hardest things you will ever have had to do as a parent and that is to let her fly solo!

[Lazy Cow]

Dear Kazz

It sounds pretty grim for both of you. I remember what I was like when I was off to start my degree. I felt totally ready for living on my own, had an absolute ball, and although I enjoyed going back to be with my parents (who were the best in the world :wubclub:) they had taught me to be independant so I coped just fine - with the lows as well as the highs.

 

I think you are an excellent parent - your daughter sounds very mature, and confident. I appreciate your concerns, particularly regarding the financial side, but she is an adult and will have to learn about budgeting some time. I hate the idea of my kids going away to uni - they seem so young!- but I figure that's because I love them and enjoy their company. I realise that they will go anyway; better with my support and blessing than with my doubt and concerns.

 

My mother used to say that the older the child, the harder it gets. You can't make everything right; they do have to learn by their own mistakes; and they sometimes seem to go to their friends with their worries before their families.

 

Leaving emotions to one side, if your daughter starts her degree in the Uk, but finds that she misses you more than she imagined, or just can't cope...couldn't she then go to Melbourne Uni? Presumably she could apply in time for a CS place and the money saved from the $16k fee could offset the money lost on the UK course?

 

I'm sure you'll both work it out - I mean, you are communicating with rational arguments as well as love. :yes:

LC

[Lazy Cow]

 

Meanwhile, major hugs to you because what you need to do is probably one of the hardest things you will ever have had to do as a parent and that is to let her fly solo!

 

 

:notworthy: How true.

LC

[Guest wardy]

Oh Kazze I can only sympathise I am afraid and cant offer you any advise becuase we are in the same boat :arghh:except my lad wants to stay here and follow his football coaching passion.

 

Remember dont get to frustrated and cross and keep the lines of communication open, pants advice I know sorry.

 

Thinking of you :wubclub:

[Guest fatpom]

University of Melb is ranked 27th in the world (Monash 43 and RMIT 200) so there's no real worries about the quality of university education in Melb particularly and Australia generally.

 

Without professing any expertise I think the major/minor system is better than the dedicated subject.

Sure, the dedicated discipline is going to be more advanced learning towards the end but it won't be a patch on practitioners in the field anyway. A degree is only a starting point these days.

I think the days are gone whereby a higher education of any specialist discipline will enable broad choices professionally later on. Knowledge and technology is increasing at such a rate employers can't afford to train up specialists to do broader work.

As for all your other problems... don't ask me... I'm a bloke. :smile:

[Guest Gollywobbler]

I fear to stick my head above the parapet on thte subject of Universties because I went to Cambridge and one need not bother to look at the league tables in order to figure out the sheer kudos and status of the name world wide.

 

The course can be crap - that is irrelevant as long as the name is behind you. The Establishment has blind faith in the name because we all went there (or Oxford) and my generation now runs the show in the City of London.

 

Two CVs hit my desk simultaneously. One says "Oxbridge." Grr-ee--aa-tt. I don't care whether the kid has graduated from Oxford or Cambridge specifically and I don't care about the quality of the degree either- s/he is automatically one of The Tribe and the Tribe will do our own bit for him/her.

 

The other one says "Melbourne." I think, "Where?" Never mind the location of this obcure place anyway. If Human Remains insist that I see both of them, then I guess I will do as commanded but I do at least know where Oxbridge is.....

 

You're telling me that bias will not be involved?

 

Is the Pope Catholic, my friend?

 

Hugz

 

Gill

[Guest fatpom]

The Establishment has blind faith in the name because we all went there (or Oxford) and my generation now runs the show in the City of London.

 

...and I don't care about the quality of the degree either- s/he is automatically one of The Tribe and the Tribe will do our own bit for him/her.

 

You're telling me that bias will not be involved?

 

 

 

:biglaugh:

One of the underlying principles of a higher education is training the mind to make decisions that are made on data driven based facts and not bias?

 

However I agree, the Establishment types will always take that view but they 'the Establishment' are a small group globally speaking and becoming even more insignificant as time rolls forward. But hang in there!

 

Incidentally I worked with a fair few oxbridge people in the UK (for 18 yrs) together with a lot more non oxbridge... many were PhD's (roughly a third) from both groups. Were the oxbridge one's the elite?... were they hell (although some were sufficiently deluded to think so). :biglaugh:

And no I'm not a graduate of any sort... just a thick old tradesman. :biglaugh:

[ali]

If you were the worst mother in the world you wouldn't be agonizing over this as you so obviously are. I can't offer any advise having not been there myself - would your daughter compromise and at least validate her visa with you, she then has the opportunity to see where you are, the house etc., and have a frame of reference when she thinks/talks to you. Or take a gap year? It may be that she then returns to the UK for a while - who knows she may love her uni course or she may long to be back with her mum. You've obviously brought up a young lady who can think for herself (even if she's not thought of the long term financial bit), and you're bound to worry if you leave her... but it may be an option you have to take. She'd probably feel very guilty if you stayed and didn't follow your dream -

 

Hugs

 

Ali

[Lynandsean]

Hi KazzE

Oh blimey, if you are a rotten mother, then I belong to that club too.

I am trying to come to terms with a similar dilemma initially caused by our nightmare house sale situation.

 

Briefly back at the end of Nov we were effectively told our house was unsaleable unless to a cash buyer because of its construction (absolutely nothing wrong with it just 'new' criteria my lenders making mortgages a problem aarrrggghhh!!). Because of this, my daughter and her boyfriend had a rethink and decided not to come for a few years.

 

My daughter had 2 uni places offered in Oz (having to come on student visa to start with as she was deemed independant) which we were going to pay for out of house sale.

 

She was very uncomfortable with the outlay on her behalf (which we were fine with cos we wanted to help her start out as debt free as poss) and I think this was preying on her mind and therefore decided delaying coming wld be better as she could come later on a PR, (sponsored by us as last remaining rellies etc after 2 yrs) which wld mean lower fees hopefully.

 

I totally understand her reasons (and love her to bits because of her thinking) but she is now moving out into a rental and I am so scared for her particularly because like you, the money situation is hopeless and we will potentially will be a long way away if it all goes pearshaped. I too don't know how I will settle in Oz without her as for me it was always all of us or none of us, but I am also aware that she is old enough to make her own decisions now.

 

I know that my daughter still wants to come in the future and do her degree (and I just have to hope that nothing changes that in the meantime!?!?!) which will be wonderful whereas your daughter doesn't want to go to Oz to study, preferring the UK option, but ultimately it seems we both have to come to terms with the fact that they are adults and must be allowed to make their own choices however hard it is for us to see them making what we think are wrong ones. We must just make sure they know that we will be there for them (with a flight ticket too) come what may.

 

Sending lots of hugs your way

Lyn x

[KazzE]

Thanks for the replies, it helps just to get it out there:yes:

 

Quoll

'You have buckleys of forcing kids to do what you want them to do once they become teenagers and at 18 she is going to want to be pretty much in charge of her own destiny. I would accept her decision and leave her to it. Emotional blackmail or any other sort of blackmail to get her to change her mind is not going to work and is going to screw up any relationship you may have with her in the future so dont even go there'

 

this is part of my problem, I am not the sort of parent to tell my kids what to do, or force them to do anything, I like to think that through discussion I can help them come to the 'right' decision. I would not resort to emotional blackmail, my Mum used to do this to us................

 

'If she had been a girl who thought she would move in with her boyfriend and may try and get a job at Tescos then I would be taking a different tack'

me too! I would be shouting and screaming, that is part of the problem as well, I do not know 100% that the Melbourne degree would be better - I am almost 100% sure that it would not have a detrimental effect on her future as it is an excellent Uni

 

Gill

The course can be crap - that is irrelevant as long as the name is behind you.

 

but I do at least know where Oxbridge is.....

 

yep that could be a problem, Melbourne Uni is not a problem if that is where she ends up living and working but it could be a problem if she ends up back in the UK and vice a versa................................

 

Fatpom

Without professing any expertise I think the major/minor system is better than the dedicated subject.

Sure, the dedicated discipline is going to be more advanced learning towards the end but it won't be a patch on practitioners in the field anyway. A degree is only a starting point these days.

I totally agree with this, one reason why I like the look of the Melbourne model, but it is one of the reasons she wants to a UK degree

 

Ali

She is on a gap year now, (she is one of the youngest in her year) we deferred her place in August 07 because we thought we were close to getting our visas, we got a case officer just before her place was confirmed.

My big issue with her is that she did not talk to us about this then, I wanted to go to Oz in Aug to have a look at the Uni etc and she said that she wanted to spend the summer with her friends- so being a soft mother that's what I allowed her to do. I should probably insisted that we went.

She is willing to validate her visa and would probably have stayed with us until time to start Uni in the UK

 

BUT

the house has not sold

we may not get there until May/June or later, which gives no time to get into the swing of Oz life

Now that she has found a house to move into I can't see her staying in Oz for any length of time even when we do (IF) move over.

 

so I think she will also be putting her PR status in jepardy as she will not have time within the next 5 years to live in Oz for 2 years

 

Lyn

but ultimately it seems we both have to come to terms with the fact that they are adults and must be allowed to make their own choices however hard it is for us to see them making what we think are wrong ones. We must just make sure they know that we will be there for them (with a flight ticket too) come what may.

She will always know that we are there for her, as we would be for either of our kids at whatever stage in thier life.

 

I am having a very hard time with the adult bit, she has not demonstrated any adult traits so far - she has not come to me with reasoned arguments (I know, big ask from a teen) about her reasons for staying or with any sort of practical plan.

 

BUT I could not live with myself if she made the move because we had forced her to and then she regretted it later.

 

The trouble is time is so tight, I have been trying to get flights from next wk end onwards and it is almost impossible if I can get flights out, I can't get back! and they are £1200 at least for each of us!

 

IF she decides to give Melbourne a go (which I know is highly unlikely but I can live in hope or delusion!) she needs to be there by 21st Feb for enrolement (actually enrolement is 21st Jan but there is an extra day for out of state or international students)

 

Oh help.............................

I think I need copious amounts of alchol to blot this all out:cry::cry:

 

[Guest maxxangel]

KazzE you are obviously a wonderful mother and I don't envy your situation at all. I have to agree with the majority, however, and say let her fly solo if her mind is made up. Just a few thoughts and my own penneth's worth:

 

I don't think anyone of that age shows any adult traits until they actually have to experience the realities and responibilities of adult life.

 

If you stick around until she's finished Uni, there's no saying for certain that she will want to join you then.

 

Tell her your concerns for her renting a house, as they are more than valid and she sounds sensible enough to understand that you make a good point.

 

It may be years down the line, but one day she may just come and join you (could even be before the PR visa runs out). As long as she always knows you will be there for her, then that is the best back up she could ever have.

 

Just a little anecdote before I leave:

My sister's son got into drugs at 15 and the moment he turned 16 he left home. My sister said she couldn't cope with him continuing in this way (stealing from her, abusing her when drugged up), but made it clear she was there if he changed his mind and would follow her rules. He came back home quite quickly, although the drugs continued, but he followed her rules. One evening he had over done it with some LSD and was having a very bad trip. My sister had work in the morning so she couldn't sit up with him, but said if he needed to stay with her in her room he could. The comment from most people was that he was very lucky and few mothers would have done that. He is now 17 and still doing the drugs, but he is back at college and back to his more considerate self. Maybe one day he will grow up.

 

Good luck KazzE and I'm sure you will make the right decision in the end, no matter how hard it is.

 

Cara