Melbourne is Far from Paradise

[Guest The Pom Queen]

I have to say that I never saw any crime, violence, drug use etc in 8 years of living there. Yes I know there are problems in certain suburbs and I suppose we had things like the Underbelly things going on which a lot of us weren't aware of. I suppose it does depend where you live and if you go looking for it.

 

Concerns are being raised in the Australian city of Melbourne about the involvement of Pacific Islanders in crime and acts of violence.

 

If you are a regular reader of Australia's metropolitan newspapers, it is a fair bet at least once a week you will see a story on either the "scourge" of gang violence, the response from police, or the pledge of state governments to get "tough" on crime.

 

In Melbourne much of that coverage recently has centred around the city's western suburbs and in particular the involvement of its immigrant population. Sometimes the coverage looks at them as the victims of attack. But just as often it's focused on them being the instigators.

 

Les Twentyman has spent a large part of his life working with people who aren't living the Melbourne dream. His foundation, the 20Man Fund, is not just there to deal with problems facing or created by new arrivals to Australia, but dealing with them has become a priority. The fund's office is located in Footscray, which historically has been where those arriving on Australian shores ended up. Since the mid-70s it's been the Vietnamese, Chinese and Indians. More recently, the Bangladeshis and now many of the refugees from Sudan, Ethiopia and Somalia.

 

Keep heading west and you come to suburbs like Altona and Sunshine where large parts of Melbourne's Pacific Islander community have set down roots.

 

 

 

Most come from New Zealand. Originally they or their parents had arrived there from places like Tonga and Samoa, in search of opportunities that didn't exist on their island homes. While a lot of them prospered, others ended up in state housing around South Auckland, which features in movies like Once were Warriors.

 

But things have been tough in the land of the long white cloud, and many of them, now New Zealand citizens, have taken advantage of the right to live and work in Australia.

 

Most succeed. They get a job, join a church and keep the family unit together. Others end up as unskilled labourers, looking for work in an area where unemployment rates range from 20 per cent to over 50 per cent.

 

These islander communities also have a unique problem. In the hope their children can escape the trouble they have already caused in schools and society in New Zealand, many families send their problem children to places like Melbourne, where they move in with brothers, sisters, cousins, aunties and uncles in the hope a change of scenery will lead to a change in behaviour.

 

It does happen, but unfortunately not all the time. In the past couple of months a gang of islanders were arrested after being caught attacking taxi drivers in the suburb of Altona. Either they paid a levy or their vehicles were trashed. The ages of the attackers ranged from 18 to 14. Les Twentyman has plenty of stories like that: the gang who regularly rob train passengers in Sunshine; or the 16-year-old island boy who stood well over six feet tall, whose response to being told he had been expelled for fighting was to knock the headmaster out cold.

 

It is no secret that family life for islander kids can be disciplined and that the church is a major backbone of their society. But unemployment, combined with drug and/or alcohol abuse, family breakdown, and peer pressure, means parental discipline isn't always there. As Les Twentyman says, "These kids may be going to church on Sunday but they're acting like urban terrorists every other day."

 

 

 

And he is seeing the same faces and names appearing repeatedly in children's court proceedings and arrest reports.

 

My trip to Melbourne's west was to take part in a tour of some of the hotspots with Les and Australia's Minister for Homelessness Brendan O'Connor. It took us to places you won't find on a tourist map. Where the drugs are sold, which areas are the subject of a territorial dispute, where the homeless have set up camp, which graffiti tags belong to which gang. Many might think they are escaping the poverty of South Auckland. But what I saw in Melbourne's west bears a scary resemblance to what I saw on a reporting trip to Auckland in 2009.

 

The issues are no mystery for Brendan O'Connor. His electorate of Gorton takes in some of the troubled areas. Other cabinet ministers are probably just as well informed. Next to Gorton is the electorate of Maribyrnong, held by Labor powerbroker Bill Shorten. Footscray is part of Gellibrand, held by Attorney-General Nicola Roxon. And neighbouring all those electorates is the seat of Lalor, held by Prime Minister Julia Gillard.

 

Les Twentyman is trying to find a way to get the resources to deal with the problems before the police and courts get involved. But he knows from experience it's a struggle. Brendan O'Connor says his government is aware of the problem, but he makes the point Melbourne's west is not the only trouble spot in Australia and it's not just immigrant and refugee communities facing homelessness and crime issues. He is right. Unfortunately it's these communities and their response to those issues, which we will be reading about in the headlines.

[Harpodom]

And to think its the worlds most 'liveable city'!

[jason d 82]

and here i am, thinking want to move away from sydney to melbourne

 

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[Paul1Perth]

Ever seen the film Once were Warriors? One of my favourite films and a powerful performance by Temuera Morrison.

 

No doubt there are problems with people integrating and the Islanders can be a frightening mix. To be honest just about all the ones I have come across are the nicest people. You wouldn't want to get on the wrong side of them but they do have a great emphasis on the family unit and friendships go deep.

 

If you think they are a problem wait a few years till the Sudan, Ethiopia and Somalia gangs start appearing. We've had a few instances in Perth in the last year or so. Gangs roaming around the inner City and attacking kids, an incident at Scarborough where the cops were getting bricks thrown at the cars. Coming from the lawless background that a lot of them have come from it's hardly surprising.

 

Like you say though, when you lived there the underbelly and gang stuff was going on and you didn't know anything about it and it didn't affect you at all. For 99% of the people in Melbourne it would be the same. I've seen Sunshine mentioned in another post as being one of the worst places to live in Oz, so if you were coming here it wouldn't be the first place you would go looking for a rental.

[Guest Anya]

Senseless crimes and vandalism even in so called safe suburbs......

 

http://progress-leader.whereilive.com.au/news/story/police-release-image-of-man-wanted-in-relation-to-kew-tyre-slashings/

 

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/true-crime-scene/suspicious-fires-at-mount-waverley-homes/story-fnat7jfp-1226350535621

 

http://waverley-leader.whereilive.com.au/news/story/two-houses-cars-lit-in-mt-waverley/

[starlight7]

The thing is the migrants are often dumped in one of the poorer suburbs with no help nd no education about Australian life. So the Somali kids do what they did at home and form gangs and beat people up and rob them on trains.

[Harpodom]

The thing is the migrants are often dumped in one of the poorer suburbs with no help nd no education about Australian life. So the Somali kids do what they did at home and form gangs and beat people up and rob them on trains.

is that what Somalis do?

[Paul1Perth]

is that what Somalis do?

 

Probably, but without the trains in Somalia. Didn't you see Black Hawk down? Bit more than a bit of beating up going on there.

[flag of convenience]

And to think its the worlds most 'liveable city'!

 

I like Melbourne well enough although have only stayed there for a few weeks at any one time,but really do any folk really believe that? Really hard to fathom when folk present this as fact. They should ask some of those living in Sunshine just how livable Melbourne is...

[flag of convenience]

Ever seen the film Once were Warriors? One of my favourite films and a powerful performance by Temuera Morrison.

 

No doubt there are problems with people integrating and the Islanders can be a frightening mix. To be honest just about all the ones I have come across are the nicest people. You wouldn't want to get on the wrong side of them but they do have a great emphasis on the family unit and friendships go deep.

 

If you think they are a problem wait a few years till the Sudan, Ethiopia and Somalia gangs start appearing. We've had a few instances in Perth in the last year or so. Gangs roaming around the inner City and attacking kids, an incident at Scarborough where the cops were getting bricks thrown at the cars. Coming from the lawless background that a lot of them have come from it's hardly surprising.

 

Like you say though, when you lived there the underbelly and gang stuff was going on and you didn't know anything about it and it didn't affect you at all. For 99% of the people in Melbourne it would be the same. I've seen Sunshine mentioned in another post as being one of the worst places to live in Oz, so if you were coming here it wouldn't be the first place you would go looking for a rental.

 

Are you suggesting there are special issues with African youth in Perth? Perhaps it is more a problem with bored youth in general with nothing to do to which I would agree.

The same thing was said about British youth immigrants decades(mods,rockers,skins etc) ago down south in Rockingham/Kwinana areas.

[Paul1Perth]

Are you suggesting there are special issues with African youth in Perth? Perhaps it is more a problem with bored youth in general with nothing to do to which I would agree.

The same thing was said about British youth immigrants decades(mods,rockers,skins etc) ago down south in Rockingham/Kwinana areas.

 

Well never saw any problems in 19 years of living here and then 2 things on the one day, both bad enough to make the news and both involving gangs of African youths. I don't for one second believe it's anything to do with boredom, they might use that as an excuse but I think it's more to do with claiming turf and seeing what they can get away with. Early days yet so we'll see.

 

As for the mods, skins, rockers and the comments about British youth immigrants I reckon they were probably right.

[flag of convenience]

The thing is the migrants are often dumped in one of the poorer suburbs with no help nd no education about Australian life. So the Somali kids do what they did at home and form gangs and beat people up and rob them on trains.

 

I doubt if Somali youth would behave that way at home. Islamic society is rather strict on kid's behaviour. Perhaps some kid's serve in the milita's that abound in that country.

For such a small community there are only around 5,000 in the whole of Australia they certainly seem to be creating mayhem . Wonder how they are identified as being Somali?

As for trains I used to take the last train home late at night over quite a few years. Never once had a problem with African gangs....have with individuals from another group though.

[Perthbum]

Oz has just the same problems with gangs and anti social behaviour as anywhere in the world, am I surprised...of course not as I seen plenty of it in Perth especially in the evening on the trains, there is a big gang culture in oz with big immagrant gangs.

[Guest Guest68570]

its far safer in Melbourne than it is in Sydney or Cairns or in fact any UK or European city I have ever been too. I have walked along the streets alone int he dead of night at 3 or 4 in the morning and felt safe as houses. I wouldnt even contemplate doing that in the small village where I come from in England.

[Harpodom]

its far safer in Melbourne than it is in Sydney or Cairns or in fact any UK or European city I have ever been too. I have walked along the streets alone int he dead of night at 3 or 4 in the morning and felt safe as houses. I wouldnt even contemplate doing that in the small village where I come from in England.

Werewolves??

[Guest The Pom Queen]

its far safer in Melbourne than it is in Sydney or Cairns or in fact any UK or European city I have ever been too. I have walked along the streets alone int he dead of night at 3 or 4 in the morning and felt safe as houses. I wouldnt even contemplate doing that in the small village where I come from in England.

Cairns is fine and if there is any trouble it's the pommie back packers here on holiday. I feel safer in Cairns than Melbourne but felt safer in Melbourne than the UK

[Guest]

Same anywhere, I can't believe black Hawk down was in reference to a bad suburb haha just imadgine a chopper being hit etc in Eltham

[flag of convenience]

its far safer in Melbourne than it is in Sydney or Cairns or in fact any UK or European city I have ever been too. I have walked along the streets alone int he dead of night at 3 or 4 in the morning and felt safe as houses. I wouldnt even contemplate doing that in the small village where I come from in England.

 

Really? I had no idea it was better than Sydney in that regard.I found both ok. I've walked in Melbourne a lot when I was there. Found a lot of areas outside the centre with few others around. I can't think of any big European city that I've lived in where I would fear being out at 2am. Done it in London countless times. Probably wouldn't feel to safe in Moscow(never been) Dublin I find a bit dodgy.....but French,German and Dutch and South European cities never a problem...

[Guest]

Werewolves??

 

:biglaugh:

[northshorepom]

I wouldnt even contemplate doing that in the small village where I come from in England.

 

Behave yourself - ridiculous statement, permissible only if you are an 80 yr old+ female

[flag of convenience]

Cairns is fine and if there is any trouble it's the pommie back packers here on holiday. I feel safer in Cairns than Melbourne but felt safer in Melbourne than the UK

 

Indeed.The only problem I had in my three months in Cairns, back in the 90s involved a very drunk highly aggressive pommy backpacer at The Woolshed,which I hear is still going.

Even though there was someone running around stabbing people in the street at the time, three from what I can recall. I never felt at all unsafe.

 

Probably the most unsafe I've felt anywhere in the world was in Alice Springs. Sometimes returning home on a late train at night to Perth as well especially when certain groups got onto the train...had more incidents and witnessed at least as much as ever had/saw on the London underground.... Probably why I prefer crowds.......

[Surf N Turf]

It's the same in any large city - affluent parts and dodgy parts. Melbourne is no different. I work in Sunshine for part of the week and quite happily wander the streets. I need to be a little more aware of my surroundings than in the area where I live but I've felt more unsafe in Walworth or Tottenham in London. I've actually been harmed in those areas too which hasn't happened in Sunshine.

 

Who are these people that have been pretending that Australia doesn't have any problems? Why all this surprise when our disadvantaged areas and populations are revealed? We're a bog standard industrialised nation where some prosper and some don't. You've got to be a complete idiot if you emigrated with the expectation of that we're all living like permanent cast members of Home and Away.

[Guest The Pom Queen]

. You've got to be a complete idiot if you emigrated with the expectation of that we're all living like permanent cast members of Home and Away.

im sorry but I came here thinking that Brax would be my neighbour, I can't believe it didn't happen, bang goes my dream, I'm going back home

[bunbury61]

I have to say that I never saw any crime, violence, drug use etc in 8 years of living there. Yes I know there are problems in certain suburbs and I suppose we had things like the Underbelly things going on which a lot of us weren't aware of. I suppose it does depend where you live and if you go looking for it.

 

Concerns are being raised in the Australian city of Melbourne about the involvement of Pacific Islanders in crime and acts of violence.

 

If you are a regular reader of Australia's metropolitan newspapers, it is a fair bet at least once a week you will see a story on either the "scourge" of gang violence, the response from police, or the pledge of state governments to get "tough" on crime.

 

In Melbourne much of that coverage recently has centred around the city's western suburbs and in particular the involvement of its immigrant population. Sometimes the coverage looks at them as the victims of attack. But just as often it's focused on them being the instigators.

 

Les Twentyman has spent a large part of his life working with people who aren't living the Melbourne dream. His foundation, the 20Man Fund, is not just there to deal with problems facing or created by new arrivals to Australia, but dealing with them has become a priority. The fund's office is located in Footscray, which historically has been where those arriving on Australian shores ended up. Since the mid-70s it's been the Vietnamese, Chinese and Indians. More recently, the Bangladeshis and now many of the refugees from Sudan, Ethiopia and Somalia.

 

Keep heading west and you come to suburbs like Altona and Sunshine where large parts of Melbourne's Pacific Islander community have set down roots.

 

 

 

Most come from New Zealand. Originally they or their parents had arrived there from places like Tonga and Samoa, in search of opportunities that didn't exist on their island homes. While a lot of them prospered, others ended up in state housing around South Auckland, which features in movies like Once were Warriors.

 

But things have been tough in the land of the long white cloud, and many of them, now New Zealand citizens, have taken advantage of the right to live and work in Australia.

 

Most succeed. They get a job, join a church and keep the family unit together. Others end up as unskilled labourers, looking for work in an area where unemployment rates range from 20 per cent to over 50 per cent.

 

These islander communities also have a unique problem. In the hope their children can escape the trouble they have already caused in schools and society in New Zealand, many families send their problem children to places like Melbourne, where they move in with brothers, sisters, cousins, aunties and uncles in the hope a change of scenery will lead to a change in behaviour.

 

It does happen, but unfortunately not all the time. In the past couple of months a gang of islanders were arrested after being caught attacking taxi drivers in the suburb of Altona. Either they paid a levy or their vehicles were trashed. The ages of the attackers ranged from 18 to 14. Les Twentyman has plenty of stories like that: the gang who regularly rob train passengers in Sunshine; or the 16-year-old island boy who stood well over six feet tall, whose response to being told he had been expelled for fighting was to knock the headmaster out cold.

 

It is no secret that family life for islander kids can be disciplined and that the church is a major backbone of their society. But unemployment, combined with drug and/or alcohol abuse, family breakdown, and peer pressure, means parental discipline isn't always there. As Les Twentyman says, "These kids may be going to church on Sunday but they're acting like urban terrorists every other day."

 

 

 

And he is seeing the same faces and names appearing repeatedly in children's court proceedings and arrest reports.

 

My trip to Melbourne's west was to take part in a tour of some of the hotspots with Les and Australia's Minister for Homelessness Brendan O'Connor. It took us to places you won't find on a tourist map. Where the drugs are sold, which areas are the subject of a territorial dispute, where the homeless have set up camp, which graffiti tags belong to which gang. Many might think they are escaping the poverty of South Auckland. But what I saw in Melbourne's west bears a scary resemblance to what I saw on a reporting trip to Auckland in 2009.

 

The issues are no mystery for Brendan O'Connor. His electorate of Gorton takes in some of the troubled areas. Other cabinet ministers are probably just as well informed. Next to Gorton is the electorate of Maribyrnong, held by Labor powerbroker Bill Shorten. Footscray is part of Gellibrand, held by Attorney-General Nicola Roxon. And neighbouring all those electorates is the seat of Lalor, held by Prime Minister Julia Gillard.

 

Les Twentyman is trying to find a way to get the resources to deal with the problems before the police and courts get involved. But he knows from experience it's a struggle. Brendan O'Connor says his government is aware of the problem, but he makes the point Melbourne's west is not the only trouble spot in Australia and it's not just immigrant and refugee communities facing homelessness and crime issues. He is right. Unfortunately it's these communities and their response to those issues, which we will be reading about in the headlines.

 

nothing to do with the OZ V POM thing , but i didnt like Melbourne at all when i visited .............each to their own ..........there again i couldnt live in ANY big city

[Bobj]

[h=1]Melbourne is Far from Paradise[/h]

 

Oh, I dunno...

 

http://maps.google.com.au/maps?oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&gl=au&daddr=mackay&saddr=melbourne&panel=1&f=d&fb=1&dirflg=d&geocode=KYH9EQ-vQtZqMeDnjCF1VgQF;KQdW06L309trMQAEIX_x7gAF&sa=X&ei=S84aUO97jrmIB5jIgIAO&ved=0CD0Q9w8wCg

 

Cheers, Bobj.