Harpodom Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 Cultural differece? More slackness and maximising profits. For what they want for houses these days it is a big deal. At least don't leave unfinished constructions. Folk should demand world best standards. .My view is to never just accept things because that's the way it is ..... Whingeing POM! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul1Perth Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 yeah fine, but what about those with young children, or the elderly? Do you really believe that in 2012, in a first world country, that this is a good thing? Watch out Harpo. Last time I mentioned things being a bit tough for kids pb whacked it into his footer on his posts. I think kids and the elderly can cope just fine with a Perth winter mate. Might be a bit tougher in Melbourne, that's one of the reasons we didn't go and live there. I don't think I've heard of one elderly person freezing to death here (you might be able to correct me if it's happened in Melbourne) but I have heard of it happening in the UK as the elderly can't afford to have heating on the whole time. It's getting more and more expensive in both countries to heat and cool so the more we can just wrap up a bit the more money we are going to save to buy those really expensive bananas and crap sausages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chardy Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 (edited) Absolutely my point - these airtightness tests are the same ones that are used on commercial buildings, if you have an airtight building with some insulation and make sure it's designed to avoid damp issues then you can heat and cool them for pennies Checkout some of the stuff the Germans build - hot summers and cold winters, but with very low energy requirements because the houses are designed for it. It's so easy to do and a total no-brainer IMO Air tests are carried out in the UK now too although big developers only have to test around one in ten whereas anyone (like us) building a one off has to have it done - it is very revealing. Despite my best efforts during the build I still found myself running round pumping caulk into all sorts of gaps where air was rushing in - I wonder how a Victorian house in the UK would fare or even a new Aussie house. We now have a very airtight house here with constant mechanical ventilation (with heat recovery) and underfloor heating which is the best ! I just hope we can build similar in Oz but the owner build market is still in it's infancy there so finance is a big issue. We could chat for hours on this subject Northshore !! Edited August 1, 2012 by Chardy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chardy Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 Some homes are smaller, some bigger....I dont think theres THAT much difference, I mean a new build 4 bed detached in the UK is fairly spacious isnt it? . No, I'm afraid the average new build 4 bed detached homes in the UK have some of the smallest rooms in the developed world, there are exceptions on exclusive estates but then you are paying twice the price AND it's decently built. There are more houses built in the UK by self builders than by any one big commercial developer and that is set to grow rapidly with the national decline in large site housebuilding. I have every intention to see if we can get this sort of turn around in Oz by promoting owner build and making it easier to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul1Perth Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 Air tests are carried out in the UK now too although big developers only have to test around one in ten whereas anyone (like us) building a one off has to have it done - it is very revealing. Despite my best efforts during the build I still found myself running round pumping caulk into all sorts of gaps where air was rushing in - I wonder how a Victorian house in the UK would fare or even a new Aussie house.We now have a very airtight house here with constant mechanical ventilation (with heat recovery) and underfloor heating which is the best ! I just hope we can build similar in Oz but the owner build market is still in it's infancy there so finance is a big issue. We could chat for hours on this subject Northshore !! The owner builder market is pretty big in Perth mate. A friend of ours has spent the last couple of years converting a pretty old house near us into something really nice. You wouldn't recognise it from the place he bought. Did a great job but took him a long time as he had to save and do it bit by bit. They also gutted the big back garden and his Dad in law was owner builder while they put a nice 3x2 in the back for him. They had to get planning permission and everything but it looks really good now. Lets face it mate, if you are going down the owner builder route and you know your stuff it's going to be a matter of cost as to what you put in.. Double glazing is an option, as is making the house as draftproof as possible, as is smart wiring and insulation. There are companies here doing it already, it just costs more. The same mate who renovated the house is a plasterer and worked on a house in Mindarie. It's owned by some British film director and looks fantastic. Has it's own boat ramp, they can drive the boat directly into an underground boatshed straight from the marina. He said the whole time he worked on it he never saw the owner but he has cameras and smart wiring all over the place. Apparently he can control everything from anywhere in the world via the internet. Switch lights on and off, open and close curtains that sort of thing. I guess to make it look like it's not stood empty. It's on a sort of private road anyway so should be pretty safe but the extras he had put in there were top of the range so if you want them they're available and the skills are here already. Just the cost for most is prohibitive when they are trying to keep the houses down to a reasonable price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chardy Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 Cheers for that post Paul. It seems the biggest problem is the high land cost in Oz (perhaps the estate owners are making a mint on each lot?) meaning the builders have to sacrifice on house quality. I Perth suburbs I have seen new estate house lots from around $160k then nearby an area of land with zoning for 20 houses for $300k - how does that work ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perthbum Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 Why are Aussies so materialistic ? Then are getting as bad as Americans in their obsession with wanting more and more and bigger and bigger , you can only live in one room at a time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevieF8 Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 Why are Aussies so materialistic ? Then are getting as bad as Americans in their obsession with wanting more and more and bigger and bigger , you can only live in one room at a time. Yeah because in the riots last year, the brits just took food and drink to feed their starving families, the ones who took designer clothes, mobile phones and lcd tv's only did that so they could sell them for food Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevieF8 Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 The point . PB Your a genius you lad :laugh: People in GB are clearly 'materialistic' otherwise they wouldn't have been caught runnig down the street with 50" plasmas .....if you dont get that, go and get your crayons and I can draw you a picture... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chardy Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 (edited) Calm down now you 2 ! BTW PB, I think you'll find that most 1st world countries are materialistic including the UK ! Edited August 1, 2012 by Chardy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
northshorepom Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 Air tests are carried out in the UK now too although big developers only have to test around one in ten whereas anyone (like us) building a one off has to have it done - it is very revealing. Sure is. Very satisfying when you know you've sorted it though We now have a very airtight house here with constant mechanical ventilation (with heat recovery) and underfloor heating which is the best ! Those ventilation systems are brilliant. I remember installing them on a contract in Wales nearly 20 years ago, first time I'd seen them in the UK. We were doing it as noise mitigation because of a big development project we were doing next door - the intent was to let the nearby residents keep their windows closed but still have fresh air and without losing heat. The efficiency and running costs were brilliant - later I lived in Scandinavia (the system we installed was a Flebu, a Norwegian brand) where they are part of the standard build - along with super-insulated, airtight houses, triple glazing and the rest of it. Living in Sweden was what turned me on to energy efficiency to be honest. The houses there were superb, utility bills were tiny - less than half that in the UK per square metre despite months of extreme cold. It was a real eye-opener when you used to come downstairs in the morning to a nice warm living area even though the heating hadn't been on all night, and checking the outside thermometer and seeing temps like -20C and genuinely having no idea even when close to a window or door that it was like that outside. That's partly what grinds my gears about feeling chilly inside here when it's 7-12C outside! I just hope we can build similar in Oz but the owner build market is still in it's infancy there so finance is a big issue. As per Paul's post, it's actually a pretty decent market but there are a few pitfalls. Lots do it, *loads* of people buy/"build" kit houses but that's not really the same thing. You'll need to make yourself aware of the trades licensing legislation which is pretty restrictive here. It varies from state to state but in most states you have to be a licensed builder to do quite a lot of stuff (although there is some latitude on this in some states for owner/builders, check and be careful about insurance/guarantees in particular!), you deffo have to be a licensed electrician to do anything electrical, even easy peasy stuff like first fix cable installs, you have to be a licensed plumber to do any pipework (including guttering!). I don't agree with it, I prefer regs that focus on output rather than input but there ya go. Luckily there are a lot of tradies here and a lot of good ones too, so long as you select carefully you should be OK As per on another thread, I quite fancy self-building over here. I always resisted it at home because it would be too much of a busman's holiday and the lack of plot availability was a real problem, plus I like older period properties. I think it makes more sense here, more plots, less period properties obviously. If we do build we may do it with the "traditional" build mode in NSW which is timber framed, but improve it for energy efficiency. You can get really great quality timber for a very reasonable price on this side of the continent, there is a LOT of forest and well managed forest at that. It depends if we can find the right builder/master chippy who we think we can work with. Or I may go the SIP route, I've always liked them but think I'd have to think about importing then. Not sure which way to go yet We could chat for hours on this subject Northshore !! Yep! :biggrin: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
northshorepom Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 Cheers for that post Paul. It seems the biggest problem is the high land cost in Oz (perhaps the estate owners are making a mint on each lot?) meaning the builders have to sacrifice on house quality. I Perth suburbs I have seen new estate house lots from around $160k then nearby an area of land with zoning for 20 houses for $300k - how does that work ? There are quite a lot of costs involved in subdivision here. I can't speak for Perth but in Sydney getting a DA is expensive, you'll always have to cough up for some "planning gain" for the council to get it, then much of the land here is on pretty slopy sites, and there's a lot of sensitive ecology, so you lose a fair amount of developable land in that. Then you've got the subdivision costs like putting in roads, services and basic infrastructure. Also erosion control is a massive deal in NSW, steep slopes, intense rainfall and dispersable soils means you have to be right on top of it or you'll cop a major fine - like $100K+ a pop for failing to control and dumping sediment in an intermittent creek - of which there are thousands. It's quite common for the sort of work you have to do to break a piece of land up into plots to involve well north of $1m in erosion and sediment control measures for both the temporary and permanent cases. Those costs soon add up...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
northshorepom Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 But the problem is that it's so wasteful! There is so much technology in the world now to make homes super efficient, so we burn less fossil fuels and can live more efficiently. I know Australia has lots of coal but one day it won't. The cultural difference is that the Australians are so far behind the rest of the western world when it comes to building standards, probably because the economy gets a decent boost when all the houses need rebuilding every 30 years (Yes I know there are exceptions to this). I wouldn't say that this kind of cultural difference is a good thing, and is really holding Australia back. If we all had the attitude that if something is good enough for everyone else then its good enough for me, well then no good changes would ever come about and the world will stagnate. Why is there so much resistance to progress here? That's precisely my problem with it. I can't square it off with years of looking for greater energy efficiency and my view of the future. Even if you don't care about climate change (and I do), there are very few certainties in this life but one absolute certainty you can bet your life on, is that energy is only going to get more expensive. Almost certainly very rapidly too, before too long Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
northshorepom Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 It's getting more and more expensive in both countries to heat and cool so the more we can just wrap up a bit the more money we are going to save to buy those really expensive bananas and crap sausages. Yeah, it is.....which is why not p1ssing money up the wall by sending warm (or cool) air straight out through the windows, walls and roof makes total sense. Don't mind rugging up a bit. I do mind wasting energy that has no need to be wasted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Shell15 Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 ..... - the houses are built for a hot climate - ..... Exactly!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest17301 Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 Exactly!! Selfish Aussies, don't they know the poms will miss central heating! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Shell15 Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 haha...how dare they!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
northshorepom Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 Exactly!! That's my other point though. Insulation works just as well for keeping heat out as keeping it in. As per my previous post, for hot summers you can do one of two things: Design a house to wick heat upwards and preferably out as quickly as possible (make it leaky and draughty and pull in air from shaded areas underneath) or seal and insulate it to stop hot air getting in in the first place. One method works well in summer and is rubbish in winter (which does exist here of course!). One works well for all seasons. I know which I'd prefer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Pom Queen Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 OK enough of the personal comments, anymore and I will be issuing infractions, so please play nicely and if you can't play nicely log off and have some chill time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest17301 Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 I'm sorry I called the Aussies selfish:frown: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Pom Queen Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 I'm sorry I called the Aussies selfish:frown: So it's you who started it, I should have guessed you trouble maker :tongue: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perthbum Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 Exactly!! Like Africa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Shell15 Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 (edited) Like Africa. Its a hot country, some states more than others, so the houses are built accordingly! Like anywhere else hot..Africa included if that makes you happy..you still havent answered my question...in what way are Australian woman 'more giving'? Edited August 1, 2012 by Shell15 spelling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest17301 Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 Yeah because in the riots last year, the brits just took food and drink to feed their starving families, the ones who took designer clothes, mobile phones and lcd tv's only did that so they could sell them for food God Id forgotten about that..call me naive but I just couldnt see that ever happening in Perth...even the worst lawbreaking bogans have more respect than that.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perthbum Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 Its a hot country, some states more than others, so the houses are built accordingly! Like anywhere else hot..Africa included if that makes you happy..you still havent answered my question...in what way are Australian woman 'more giving'? they are very forward and not scared to ask you out unlike most pom women who are shy compared. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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