Overclaiming on the EoI - Instant Application Refusal

[Alan Collett]

I don't recall seeing this discussed on the forum to date, but those who have or who are lodging an EoI should be aware of the following provision in the recently published migration regulations:

 

The applicant’s score, when assessed in relation to the visa under Subdivision B of Division 3 of Part 2 of the Act, is not less than the score stated in the invitation to apply for the visa.

The score stated in the invitation to apply for the visa will be based on the EoI - so if it subsequently transpires upon the submission of documentation and assessment by the DIAC case officer that the points claimed in the EoI were too high the visa application must be refused, whether or not the actual points are 60 or more.

 

Areas that are likely to be particularly prone to error and overclaims are work experience and qualifications, where it presently seems the information in the pop up boxes of the EoI are insufficient and some would say misleading. Relevant work experience (for example) is an area where it seems there is insufficient detail.

 

For those who are looking at a State Sponsored subclass 190 or 489 EoI/visa application I would encourage a cautious approach to claiming points, as you should receive an invitation whether you claim 60 or (say) 75 points.

 

Those who are lodging an EoI with a view to a 189 visa being granted are in a more difficult position, and unless they are across the issues technically - particularly in the work experience area - should almost certainly be engaging a competent migration agent.

 

Unless things change at a legislative level - which I suggest is improbable - I fear we will see quite substantial numbers of applicants being unsuccessful in the coming months, as the general prioritisation of EoI's with more points means there is an inherent bias which encourages overclaims by intending migrants.

 

Best regards.

[lebourvellec]

It had been stated on the IMMI blog that they spoke about banning people from re-applying if they overclaimed on points? Is this still the case?

[Joebloggs]

Wow automatic ban for porky pies.

[lebourvellec]

Myth 4 – I can intentionally embellish my claims on my EOI to increase my points score and likelihood of getting an invitation.

There are some serious potential risks in providing false and misleading information in your EOI.

If you are invited to apply for a visa, the information in your EOI will be used as part of your visa application. You will then need to confirm your claims and submit evidence with your application.

If you provide false or misleading information on your EOI and receive an invitation based on this information, your application may be refused. If your visa application is refused you will lose your visa application charge and may also be subject to a bar which prevents the grant of a further visa. http://migrationblog.immi.gov.au/

[wrussell]

Wow automatic ban for porky pies.

 

Here is the relevant regulation:

***************************************************************************************************************************

4020

(1) There is no evidence before the Minister that the applicant has given, or caused to be given, to the Minister, an officer, the Migration Review Tribunal, a relevant assessing authority or a Medical Officer of the Commonwealth, a bogus document or information that is false or misleading in a material particular in relation to:

(a) the application for the visa; or

(b) a visa that the applicant held in the period of 12 months before the application was made.

(2) The Minister is satisfied that during the period:

(a) starting 3 years before the application was made; and

(b) ending when the Minister makes a decision to grant or refuse the application;

the applicant and each member of a family unit of the applicant has not been refused a visa because of a failure to satisfy the criteria in subclause (1).

(3) To avoid doubt, subclauses (1) and (2) apply whether or not the Minister became aware of the bogus document or information that is false or misleading in a material particular because of information given by the applicant.

(4) The Minister may waive the requirements of any or all of paragraphs (1)(a) or (b) and subclause (2) if satisfied that:

(a) compelling circumstances that affect the interests of Australia; or

(b) compassionate or compelling circumstances that affect the interests of an Australian citizen, an Australian permanent resident or an eligible New Zealand citizen;

justify the granting of the visa.

(5) In this clause:

information that is false or misleading in a material particular means information that is:

(a) false or misleading at the time it is given; and

(b) relevant to any of the criteria the Minister may consider when making a decision on an application, whether or not the decision is made because of that information.

Note Regulation 1.03 defines bogus document as having the same meaning as in section 97 of the Act.

 

********************************************************************************************************************

The guts of it is - if the minister decides that false or misleading information has been provided, you cop a 3-year ban. This applies even for innocent mistakes by visa applicants or third parties. It can be noted that here are no consequences for ministers, ministerial delegates or assessing authorities baking pork pies.

 

I have little sympathy for those who present fraudulent documents or who knowingly make false claims. My advice to them has been to withdraw the application and reapply; if they were eligible. Provided there was nothing false about the application in place, the applicant was OK. It looks as if the minister has pretty well eliminated this strategy.

[Alan Collett]

The feedback I have from the ASPC is that innocent mistakes will not lead to a 3 year ban under PIC 4020.

 

Best regards.

[Joebloggs]

I think unless you know exactly what you are doing you are safer consulting a MARA agent before you lodge an EOI, how many times in the old system have you seen people make silly assumptions about points and then are horrified when they realise that it's not the case.

[Guest Jamie Smith]

The feedback I have from the ASPC is that innocent mistakes will not lead to a 3 year ban under PIC 4020.

 

Best regards.

 

Hi all

 

They have to allow for innocent mistakes, that's fair. But as happended in the NZ EOI was launched, it will give rise to dodgy agents "guaranteeing" eligibility for a visa just by making a successful lodgement.

 

Several thousand NZ EOI were found not to have met the criteria, jamming up the system until the dodgy agents stopped lodging all the cases they had on hand that no longer met the new visa requirements. A lot of those cases were lodged "by the applicant" (read, agent filling in on behalf) and not tied back to an agent.

 

The agents' contracts required payment on lodgement and they used that lodgement as "proof of eligibility" to ensure they got paid the fee tied to lodgement. FWIW the dodgy agents were mostly from the subcontinent and Asia but also including some local agents born in those countries who were marketing to their own ethnic groups.

 

DIAC need to tie the internet IP address back to the application and thus ensure that agent offices are not used for making "personal" applications. Mind you that would complicate things for an agent supervising a client's personal application in their office. So a field saying completed by "client under supervision of XYZ agent" might help with duplicate IP numbers and flush out agents who are not registered in Australia.

 

Good luck to all

[wrussell]

Very little that comes from the DIAC or the minister can be taken at face value.

 

I have had visas refused where an ASPC case officer decided that false work experience claims had been lodged and I won all of these in the MRT, except one where the client did not apply for a review.

 

I had a case where a relative was paid to obtain documents and found it more convenient to use the services of the local document forger. The visa applicant was quite innocent. Relying on DIAC officers to assess such cases would be akin to allowing a Windows operating system to control the ripcord on your parachute.

[bluechris1975]

Thank you for this useful thread Alan. If I follow what you meant correctly, I think you have helped me avoid accidentally over-claiming experience. And I agree, the wording really isn't very clear!

[pswebb38]

Thanks for starting this thread Alan, it will save a lot of heartache for innocent mistakes being made. I've just checked my wifes EOI, and removed 1 of her jobs, as noticed it goes back further than 10 years ago! Phew, that was close!

 

Thank you once again Alan.

[Guest Destination]

I have more than 8 years experience but I don't want to mention a job in employment history as I don't have any evidence for this job. My question is if I include this job, the skillselect automatically calculates its points and I read on DIAC website that you will be assessed against the points score you claimed and you need to provide the evidence for it. So I don't want to claim points based on this job. However the help in employment section states that we have to provide employment history for the last 10 years. Please help me what I should do, if I under claim the work experience and don't mention it, will I have any problem. I only want to claim 3years work experience instead of 8.

[Guest marielbrazil]

hi Destination!

 

That's also my problem. I only want to declare a part of my work experience because I don't have valid proofs of employment like tax returns, bank statements, certificates etc because my employer is not big time and only paid me in cash and no contract was issued whatsoever. instead of declaring 4 years of experience, I will only declare 15months from my current work. I got a positive skills assessment (I passed the the exam) from Australian Pharmacy Examination Council during the time I was in my first job. I will write a statutory declaration re this. I don't know if it's right. I know I should declare my first job (accdg to skillselect) but will it be okay if I tag it as NOT RELEVANT WORK EXPERIENCE? since I will not claim any points for those. will diac accept that?

 

anyone please help me..

tnx

[srg73]

I have undergone VETASSESS assessment, IELTS etc and passed all. Will this improve my EoI application given that my application should be simple thereafter.

 

Thanks

[akanawu]

I have more than 8 years experience but I don't want to mention a job in employment history as I don't have any evidence for this job. My question is if I include this job, the skillselect automatically calculates its points and I read on DIAC website that you will be assessed against the points score you claimed and you need to provide the evidence for it. So I don't want to claim points based on this job. However the help in employment section states that we have to provide employment history for the last 10 years. Please help me what I should do, if I under claim the work experience and don't mention it, will I have any problem. I only want to claim 3years work experience instead of 8.

You can leave out part of your work history you don't want to claim point for. Had a similar situation, all you have to do is to select that the work experience in question is "not relevant" to your chosen occupation and points will not be awarded for that.

Hope this clears your confusion.

Edited August 19, 2012 by akanawu
gramatical

[Guest abhishek]

I don't recall seeing this discussed on the forum to date, but those who have or who are lodging an EoI should be aware of the following provision in the recently published migration regulations:

 

The applicant’s score, when assessed in relation to the visa under Subdivision B of Division 3 of Part 2 of the Act, is not less than the score stated in the invitation to apply for the visa.

The score stated in the invitation to apply for the visa will be based on the EoI - so if it subsequently transpires upon the submission of documentation and assessment by the DIAC case officer that the points claimed in the EoI were too high the visa application must be refused, whether or not the actual points are 60 or more.

 

Areas that are likely to be particularly prone to error and overclaims are work experience and qualifications, where it presently seems the information in the pop up boxes of the EoI are insufficient and some would say misleading. Relevant work experience (for example) is an area where it seems there is insufficient detail.

 

For those who are looking at a State Sponsored subclass 190 or 489 EoI/visa application I would encourage a cautious approach to claiming points, as you should receive an invitation whether you claim 60 or (say) 75 points.

 

Those who are lodging an EoI with a view to a 189 visa being granted are in a more difficult position, and unless they are across the issues technically - particularly in the work experience area - should almost certainly be engaging a competent migration agent.

 

Unless things change at a legislative level - which I suggest is improbable - I fear we will see quite substantial numbers of applicants being unsuccessful in the coming months, as the general prioritisation of EoI's with more points means there is an inherent bias which encourages overclaims by intending migrants.

 

Best regards.

 

Hi Alan,

 

 

I would like to put my case to you, and expecting a reply.

 

 

I have done my ACS last year i.e. in April 2011, and it was evaluated positive with ANZSCO code 261312, and total experience they evaluated positive were 7 years and 3 months.

Now, on 01st July 2012 I filed my EOI, and updated my experience as 8 years and 7 months.Also, I am working in the same company since my last assessment with ACS happened. Since I claimed 8 years EOI has given 15 points for my work experience. Also, when

After submitting my EOI, I applied for SA state sponsorship (SS). Recently they have granted my SS for 190 visa.

 

 

So, I have 190 SA-SS approved and in my EOI I have "Apply For Visa" button enabled for 190 visa.

 

 

Now, when I will go to DIAC to file my visa application will they consider only my 7 yrs and 3 months experience (which ACS has assessed in April 2011) only, or they will consider my complete 8 yrs and 7 months experience as of today ?

Also I am continuously working in same company with same profile, which I was working in April 2011 (when my last skill assessment happened with ACS). So I can provide each proof of employment even after April 2011. i.e. References on company Letter Head, All Salary Slips, Tax returns and increments.

 

 

So I think DIAC will be considerate, and accept my work experience from April 2011 and will add remaining work experience to 7 years and 3 months?

 

 

I need a advice and this may be issues with many other guys!

 

 

I put a case, for example:

 

 

"

A person went to ACS and got skill assessed with 4 yrs and 9 months in suppose Software Engineer 261313.

And after 4 months he cleared IELTS and went to DIAC to apply his visa.

At that time his experience was 5 year 1 months. So DiAC will award him 10 points on work experience or only 5 points as assessed my ACS?

I think DIAC will always take experience as incremental with time, if you provide proper proofs?

"

I need a quick solution to my issue, as I need to file my 190 visa to DIAC (apporved by SA-SS)! :biggrin:

 

 

Best Regards,

Abhishek

[Alan Collett]

Hello Abhishek.

 

You may not be surprised to know that we only discuss detailed such as this with our fee paying clients.

 

Best regards.

[Waitingawhile]

Hi Alan,

 

 

I would like to put my case to you, and expecting a reply.

 

 

I have done my ACS last year i.e. in April 2011, and it was evaluated positive with ANZSCO code 261312, and total experience they evaluated positive were 7 years and 3 months.

Now, on 01st July 2012 I filed my EOI, and updated my experience as 8 years and 7 months.Also, I am working in the same company since my last assessment with ACS happened. Since I claimed 8 years EOI has given 15 points for my work experience. Also, when

After submitting my EOI, I applied for SA state sponsorship (SS). Recently they have granted my SS for 190 visa.

 

 

So, I have 190 SA-SS approved and in my EOI I have "Apply For Visa" button enabled for 190 visa.

 

 

Now, when I will go to DIAC to file my visa application will they consider only my 7 yrs and 3 months experience (which ACS has assessed in April 2011) only, or they will consider my complete 8 yrs and 7 months experience as of today ?

Also I am continuously working in same company with same profile, which I was working in April 2011 (when my last skill assessment happened with ACS). So I can provide each proof of employment even after April 2011. i.e. References on company Letter Head, All Salary Slips, Tax returns and increments.

 

 

So I think DIAC will be considerate, and accept my work experience from April 2011 and will add remaining work experience to 7 years and 3 months?

 

 

I need a advice and this may be issues with many other guys!

 

 

I put a case, for example:

 

 

"

A person went to ACS and got skill assessed with 4 yrs and 9 months in suppose Software Engineer 261313.

And after 4 months he cleared IELTS and went to DIAC to apply his visa.

At that time his experience was 5 year 1 months. So DiAC will award him 10 points on work experience or only 5 points as assessed my ACS?

I think DIAC will always take experience as incremental with time, if you provide proper proofs?

"

I need a quick solution to my issue, as I need to file my 190 visa to DIAC (apporved by SA-SS)! :biggrin:

 

 

Best Regards,

Abhishek

 

Hi just to share my experience which may help you -I received a positive skills assessment and I submitted via vetassess documents to cover the whole period I was going to claim points for, I received my outcome letter and it only covered me for a 12 month period - in the intervening period the points test had changed and vetassess updated its web site giving you the option to indicate whether you wanted a letter to cover any longer period. I decided that as you had to pay extra and it was not necessary for diac to receive such a letter given they carry out their own checks anyway, and I too was working in the same role. i decided that I could easily cover this with references and wage slips etc. I applied without one and it was accepted.

[Alan Collett]

Hi there Waiting.

 

From your sig block it seems you applied for a s/c 176 visa. This thread relates to the new skilled visa regime and the EoI/SkillSelect requirements, so readers of your posting should bear that in mind.

 

Best regards.

[Guest abhishek]

Hi just to share my experience which may help you -I received a positive skills assessment and I submitted via vetassess documents to cover the whole period I was going to claim points for, I received my outcome letter and it only covered me for a 12 month period - in the intervening period the points test had changed and vetassess updated its web site giving you the option to indicate whether you wanted a letter to cover any longer period. I decided that as you had to pay extra and it was not necessary for diac to receive such a letter given they carry out their own checks anyway, and I too was working in the same role. i decided that I could easily cover this with references and wage slips etc. I applied without one and it was accepted.

 

Thanks for replies.. does anybody else is facing similar issues in EOI/skillselect for work experience counted by DIAC.

Appreciate replies!

[srg73]

I personally think they are correct in your assessment as a alot of things are judged at the time of application. The same principle applies to you age ie that your age is judged at the time of application not when the visa is granted.

 

Sorry.

 

S

[Guest Kamal Verma]

hello frndz

i want to apply 189 visa sub class

my query is that i am having Australian diploma and certificate from assessing authority related to my job as a ship's officer which is listed in SOL.

so i will get 10 points for my diploma and another 10 points for attaining certificate from my assessing authority or not in point test.

please help me out guys in this matter.

thanks

[Guest rase2rase]

Hi Guys I m new to this forum. I m facing a problem. I applied for 489 and i give my 1st ielts marks (L/R/W/S) as 8/7.5/6.5/6.5(got 0 pts) in EOI and total 65.Later i took the IELTS again and I updated in the EOI with the latest marks as (L/R/W/S) - 8/7/6.5/7(got 0 pts), But i forget to update the TRN & Test date and still with 65. I got the invitation and now i relalized that i made typo error?? Now i dont know which IELTS report i have to provide.Will this create any issues. Kindly please help me in fixing this situation????I havent overclaimed/disclaim anything? Will i be facing any problems regarding this???

[Rezasol]

Hi Guys I m new to this forum. I m facing a problem. I applied for 489 and i give my 1st ielts marks (L/R/W/S) as 8/7.5/6.5/6.5(got 0 pts) in EOI and total 65.Later i took the IELTS again and I updated in the EOI with the latest marks as (L/R/W/S) - 8/7/6.5/7(got 0 pts), But i forget to update the TRN & Test date and still with 65. I got the invitation and now i relalized that i made typo error?? Now i dont know which IELTS report i have to provide.Will this create any issues. Kindly please help me in fixing this situation????I havent overclaimed/disclaim anything? Will i be facing any problems regarding this???

 

inform your CO about the typo and update him/her with the new TRN if you've already updated the score in your application..

[Amali]

IF i claim marks from partner and if his IELTS result pending at the time of invitation (he has already sat exam before invitation) and if he get through with required mark,will it considered as valid IELTS requirement at the time of invitation?