The IT field Thread

[GezMag]

Hi all,

 

I'm an IT project manager with 10 years experience of working at a huge UK utilities firm, managing £4-5m projects. I'm currently waiting for my ACS assessment to come back (they've had it for 11 weeks) and I plan to apply for a 190 visa to Melbourne. I'm married with 2 little girls and I'm confident that we are making the right move for various reasons, but I am terrified that I am throwing away my career! Am I going to struggle massively to get any work??? Help???

 

This is my first post by the way, so be gentle?

[eddieb7]

Hi all,

 

I'm an IT project manager with 10 years experience of working at a huge UK utilities firm, managing £4-5m projects. I'm currently waiting for my ACS assessment to come back (they've had it for 11 weeks) and I plan to apply for a 190 visa to Melbourne. I'm married with 2 little girls and I'm confident that we are making the right move for various reasons, but I am terrified that I am throwing away my career! Am I going to struggle massively to get any work??? Help???

 

This is my first post by the way, so be gentle?

 

Hi GezMag,

 

I feel your fear. I'm a Software Engineer of 15 years experience, and have a similar trepidation about trying to kick start my career in Oz.

I'm married with two young kids too. (Little boy of 3 and Girl of 8).

 

But if it means a better way of life for my too young ones, its a chance worth taking.:biggrin:

 

Cheers

Eddie

[GezMag]

Thanks Eddie,

 

Whilst I realise that I'm not the only person who is nervous about their job prospects, it is still nice to hear confirmation that this feeling of excitement mixed with terror is not unique!

 

Good luck with your journey mate. You're a little further down the road than me, as I'm waiting for a skills assessmentbefore I complete my EOI etc.

 

where are you planning on heading to?

 

Cheers

 

Gez

[Chortlepuss]

Hi all,

 

I'm an IT project manager with 10 years experience of working at a huge UK utilities firm, managing £4-5m projects. I'm currently waiting for my ACS assessment to come back (they've had it for 11 weeks) and I plan to apply for a 190 visa to Melbourne. I'm married with 2 little girls and I'm confident that we are making the right move for various reasons, but I am terrified that I am throwing away my career! Am I going to struggle massively to get any work??? Help???

 

This is my first post by the way, so be gentle?

 

My mate working in Melbourne as a Change Manager says the market is quite buoyant. You may (dependent on skills) suffer from 'no local experience' push back from agencies. If anyone experienced is doing it a bit tough and getting no luck with recruiters, could I suggest applying directly to management consultancies? They will appreciate your experience, and although it's not as lucrative as contracting directly, it gets you in to the workplace. In Brisbane the market is getting quite tough, with mining and resources shedding and opportunities increasingly from Govt - it's so much easier going in as consultant than responding to heaps of applications requiring detailed selection criteria.

[themod53]

Hi Chortlepuss,

 

I too am an ex developer now IT project manager (13 years’ PM experience), mainly focusing on the mobile / digital SDLC, having worked on enterprise / infrastructure and business change projects in the past, have a vast and varying experience delivering solutions for organizations all round the world. What I don't get is this 'No local experience crap!' Yes, culturally we Brits are slightly different from our Aussie brothers, they work with dollars rather than pounds and laws & legislation differs, plus all the other work place variables you have to be prepared for when up start a new job.

 

This phrase 'Local Experience' As an occasional hiring manager across my project teams, I personally would not bothered for 'local experience' when hiring - as long as they have the rights to work, the required capabilities, are willing to adapt and fit in with the team! They're going to get the job - Enough said really!

 

I believe if you're good at your chosen profession, have the criteria / proof / certs to back it up, and as an experienced contractor you adapt quickly to a new work places taking on board new business / cultural / project environments. I can't see why 'no local experience' would go against you! (The process and management of delivering digital software project does not differ from the UK to Australia, nor does the software languages or development frameworks used). I would have thought that the experience gained working for big world renowned companies in London, New York or 'wherever it may be' would put someone in good stead for roles in Australia? (I could be wrong and perhaps I'm just making a big assumption? Taking a blinked approach?? Maybe just taking it for granted that it's relatively easy to pick up IT PM contracts in London.

 

From a career perspective I'm hoping our move to Sydney in August is the right one. (Moving on a subclass 100 visa)

 

My conclusion would be that project management frameworks and mythologies - whether that be PMI, Prince2, waterfall, AGILE practices like 'SCRUM' Extreme programming, TDD etc... principles of the PM body of knowledge remain the same, no matter how many years of 'local experience or overseas experience' one may have! Granted, methodologies are often adapted differently at an organisation level but the understanding of the methodology framework remains the constant.

 

If this exacerbating precursor 'No local experience' bullshit is stopping talented individuals from gaining employment or stopping them being put forward for roles they could do blindfolded with their hands tied, there's something quite wrong! On the flip side, I'm really looking to embrace the challenge of securing a job and cultural aspect of working in Australia.

Sorry for my long winded post! once I get started, I get started! I'm just a passionate PM ITgeek :eek: who's hoping the PM market in Sydney will be a fruitful one.

Edited March 21, 2014 by themod53

[eddieb7]

Thanks Eddie,

 

Whilst I realise that I'm not the only person who is nervous about their job prospects, it is still nice to hear confirmation that this feeling of excitement mixed with terror is not unique!

 

Good luck with your journey mate. You're a little further down the road than me, as I'm waiting for a skills assessmentbefore I complete my EOI etc.

 

where are you planning on heading to?

 

Cheers

 

Gez

 

 

Hi Gez,

 

We're looking at moving to South Melbourne. We've got family in that area. What about yourself?

 

Hopefully your wait won't be too long for your skills assessment. Ours was done pretty quick at the time. Much quicker than I expected.

 

Cheers

Eddie

[Paul1Perth]

I think the "local experience" argument is a bit overplayed. There are jobs where local experience can be important but the bigger companies with technical jobs tend to have the same selection criteria that you would find in the U.K. might even turn out that it's an expat that's interviewing you and it could be an advantage. Certainly happened to me. I went for an interview and the interviewer had been to the same place as me for an interview when we left uni. Turned out we had both been interviewed at a software company in London. Gave us something in common and I got the job.

 

Judging by your quals and experience I think you will be fine. Good luck.

[Chortlepuss]

Hi Chortlepuss,

 

I too am an ex developer now IT project manager (13 years’ PM experience), mainly focusing on the mobile / digital SDLC, having worked on enterprise / infrastructure and business change projects in the past, have a vast and varying experience delivering solutions for organizations all round the world. What I don't get is this 'No local experience crap!' Yes, culturally we Brits are slightly different from our Aussie brothers, they work with dollars rather than pounds and laws & legislation differs, plus all the other work place variables you have to be prepared for when up start a new job.

 

This phrase 'Local Experience' As an occasional hiring manager across my project teams, I personally would not bothered for 'local experience' when hiring - as long as they have the rights to work, the required capabilities, are willing to adapt and fit in with the team! They're going to get the job - Enough said really!

 

I believe if you're good at your chosen profession, have the criteria / proof / certs to back it up, and as an experienced contractor you adapt quickly to a new work places taking on board new business / cultural / project environments. I can't see why 'no local experience' would go against you! (The process and management of delivering digital software project does not differ from the UK to Australia, nor does the software languages or development frameworks used). I would have thought that the experience gained working for big world renowned companies in London, New York or 'wherever it may be' would put someone in good stead for roles in Australia? (I could be wrong and perhaps I'm just making a big assumption? Taking a blinked approach?? Maybe just taking it for granted that it's relatively easy to pick up IT PM contracts in London.

 

From a career perspective I'm hoping our move to Sydney in August is the right one. (Moving on a subclass 100 visa)

 

My conclusion would be that project management frameworks and mythologies - whether that be PMI, Prince2, waterfall, AGILE practices like 'SCRUM' Extreme programming, TDD etc... principles of the PM body of knowledge remain the same, no matter how many years of 'local experience or overseas experience' one may have! Granted, methodologies are often adapted differently at an organisation level but the understanding of the methodology framework remains the constant.

 

If this exacerbating precursor 'No local experience' bullshit is stopping talented individuals from gaining employment or stopping them being put forward for roles they could do blindfolded with their hands tied, there's something quite wrong! On the flip side, I'm really looking to embrace the challenge of securing a job and cultural aspect of working in Australia.

Sorry for my long winded post! once I get started, I get started! I'm just a passionate PM ITgeek :eek: who's hoping the PM market in Sydney will be a fruitful one.

 

I am sure it will be a fruitful one. By all accounts, I have been told the market in Sydney and Melbourne is substantially more professional than Brisbane, and it is a much larger pond. Whilst I agree with you that IT project skills should transcend geographic location, my experience is that the market in Oz (particularly Brisbane) is more 'relationship' based than competency based. So people with great skills can be passed over for others with fewer skills and experience - and while this can happen everywhere, I have found selection of candidates can be quite shocking. For instance my friend who is a senior BA with exposure to PM wanted to apply for a junior PM role but was told not to apply as the role was going to the project admin assistant (with no project management experience) who was a mate of the program manager. This is not an isolated example! I joined a project as a change manager where the project manager had just left as he 'was having difficulties compiling a project plan' This guy (a close friend of the program manager had been in role for a year at $1K per day and was struggling to produce a project plan for a pretty small scale project! I can't think of a single project in the UK that I've worked on where he wouldn't have been sacked within a few weeks. Certificates count for a great deal here - As a change manager with 10+ years solid experience in change and no formal change qualifications, I frequently lose out to much more junior candidates with a few month's to a couple of years experience, especially if they've got a shiny new change methodology certificate. Often I'm told 'don't bother applying, you've got more experience than the program manager so you won't be considered'. In the UK this wasn't an issue, I worked for some pretty senior people who certainly wouldn't be put off by experience, here it's culturally very different and senior people seem to be threatened by competency and experience far more easily. The reason that I suggested management consultancy if you do encounter difficulties with getting a job (and chances are that you won't) is that consultancies here seem to be headed up by experienced people who appreciate your skills and are only too happy to snap you up (and work you like a dog in the case of the larger ones).

[Slean Wolfhead]

I have found selection of candidates can be quite shocking. For instance my friend who is a senior BA with exposure to PM wanted to apply for a junior PM role but was told not to apply as the role was going to the project admin assistant (with no project management experience) who was a mate of the program manager. This is not an isolated example! I joined a project as a change manager where the project manager had just left as he 'was having difficulties compiling a project plan' This guy (a close friend of the program manager had been in role for a year at $1K per day and was struggling to produce a project plan for a pretty small scale project! I can't think of a single project in the UK that I've worked on where he wouldn't have been sacked within a few weeks.

 

It's commonplace....as always, the skill is getting through the door and then getting the chance to prove yourself. Having sat on a few panels now as an observer, I'm pretty good at spotting when somebody has been setup for a position and it is shocking to see someone floundering and unsuitable, but you know they're going to fix it for them. In Canberra, it's normally family connections.

 

I've worked on projects without a proper plan, so you have to compartmentalise and do your own specific documents and you're forced into these awful silo's to protect yourself with documentation...because people are quite happy to try and blatantly stab other people in the back after setting them up to fail. Very questionable ethics in some areas.

I remember one specific "laid back" project manager who bulled his way through to implementation without a clue, had loads of gaps that he just ignored...then was last seen on Go Live day actually sprinting to his car and driving away never to be seen again. His sister was married to the Director apparently. You gotta laugh sometimes.

[GezMag]

My experience of working in IT departments in energy and utility companies in the UK sounds quite similar to many of the experiences people are discussing in Oz, namely getting your foot in the door is difficult and based upon who you know. Once you have managed to get in, it's down to the individual...

 

Regards,

 

Gez

Edited March 23, 2014 by GezMag

[GezMag]

Hi Gez,

 

We're looking at moving to South Melbourne. We've got family in that area. What about yourself?

 

Hopefully your wait won't be too long for your skills assessment. Ours was done pretty quick at the time. Much quicker than I expected.

 

Cheers

Eddie

 

We're thinking of bayside, south east Melbourne. Perhaps Sandringham or maybe further out in somewhere like Mount Eliza.

 

 

I guess our decision will in some part be dependant on the job I manage to secure, although plan A will be to contract in the CBD so a rental on a train line would probably work out well.

 

 

Out of interest, did you complete your EOI before your VIC SS? I've assumed that is the correct order, although the VIC pages seem somewhat contradictory.

 

 

Regards,

 

 

Gez

[eddieb7]

We're thinking of bayside, south east Melbourne. Perhaps Sandringham or maybe further out in somewhere like Mount Eliza.

 

 

I guess our decision will in some part be dependant on the job I manage to secure, although plan A will be to contract in the CBD so a rental on a train line would probably work out well.

 

 

Out of interest, did you complete your EOI before your VIC SS? I've assumed that is the correct order, although the VIC pages seem somewhat contradictory.

 

 

Regards,

 

 

Gez

 

Yeah, I created my EOI first and then applied of VIC SS.

I then received an email stating that I had secured nomination from Victoria, and the very next day I received my email from IMMI asking me to formally apply for our Residential Visa.

 

Cheers

Eddie

[GezMag]

I got my positive skills assessment this morning, so EOI and Vic application all done!

 

I'm delighted!

 

Hope to meet you for a beer in Melbourne some time later this year :-)

 

Yeah, I created my EOI first and then applied of VIC SS.

I then received an email stating that I had secured nomination from Victoria, and the very next day I received my email from IMMI asking me to formally apply for our Residential Visa.

 

Cheers

Eddie

[eddieb7]

That's great news, Congrats.

 

Just the waiting game for a Case Office, and then the Visa grant.

:biggrin:

[IronMan2]

Last week I got a call for an interview from a recruitment agency with one of the employer. The interview went fine, got selected and next day the recruitment agency told me to provide references. I gave them my references. Reference check done and were fine. Offer was about to be released to me. And the employer backed out stating that they don't require the position anymore. This somewhat amazed me and could not buy it.

Did some digging and background investigation into the employer and the situation.....got to know the reason for not giving me the offer. The reasons were astonishing.

 

Problem was with my ethnicity. Just could not believe it. But still I won't take names of the agency or the employer.

 

Sometimes I keep wondering whether I have really come to a developed country or not ??

[themod53]

Ironman,

 

That's a shocker and sorry to hear that myfriend! Where are you originally from, if you don't mind me asking?

 

Crazy - I know ethnicity discrimination happens - if you've got the rights skills and a fit with the team it shouldn't matter what ethnicity you are! Bit of a shocker to say the least.

[bogdan]

Ironman, was that a phone interview or a face to face interview?

[mehman]

Folks,

 

Does anyone have any experience in Finance Technology? Whats the scene like for jobs in the front office etc?

 

Cheers,

MM

[IronMan2]

bogdan,

 

first it was a phone interview and then they invited me for a face to face interview.

[dejani]

Last week I got a call for an interview from a recruitment agency with one of the employer. The interview went fine, got selected and next day the recruitment agency told me to provide references. I gave them my references. Reference check done and were fine. Offer was about to be released to me. And the employer backed out stating that they don't require the position anymore. This somewhat amazed me and could not buy it.

Did some digging and background investigation into the employer and the situation.....got to know the reason for not giving me the offer. The reasons were astonishing.

 

Problem was with my ethnicity. Just could not believe it. But still I won't take names of the agency or the employer.

 

Sometimes I keep wondering whether I have really come to a developed country or not ??

 

 

Can you please say what ethnicity you are? I'm moving from Sweden to Australia just because of that problem. And thought that I will not have that problem in Australia.

So that is why I'm curios.

[IronMan2]

Can you please say what ethnicity you are? I'm moving from Sweden to Australia just because of that problem. And thought that I will not have that problem in Australia.

So that is why I'm curios.

 

I rather not say wht my ethnicity is as some people might become judgmental. I can just tell you that I am a non-white guy and my is also not western.

[Paul1Perth]

Last week I got a call for an interview from a recruitment agency with one of the employer. The interview went fine, got selected and next day the recruitment agency told me to provide references. I gave them my references. Reference check done and were fine. Offer was about to be released to me. And the employer backed out stating that they don't require the position anymore. This somewhat amazed me and could not buy it.

Did some digging and background investigation into the employer and the situation.....got to know the reason for not giving me the offer. The reasons were astonishing.

 

Problem was with my ethnicity. Just could not believe it. But still I won't take names of the agency or the employer.

 

Sometimes I keep wondering whether I have really come to a developed country or not ??

It's a developed country ironman and if you have proof of what you are saying you stand a very good chance of compensation. If it's just a hunch though you might be totally wrong. Usually it's so hard to find out why you didn't get the position. I was out of work 5 months when we first came, no explanations from anyone why I wasn't getting the job. You just have to keep trying.

[dejani]

Can anyone tell me what is the range of salary for ICT Project Manager?

I got an offer of $90K per year. Is that good or not?

[themod53]

Can anyone tell me what is the range of salary for ICT Project Manager?

I got an offer of $90K per year. Is that good or not?

 

Hey Dejani,

 

 

I'm not hit Australia as of yet but will do in August - I had been looking at ICT PM roles / Digital PM roles in the Sydney area, of which the salary range seems to go from 90K up to 140K dependant on previous experience, project types, etc...

 

Making the assumption that $90k is just under £50k, taking into account today exchange rate, back here in the UK (London) that would be around the ave salary for a Mid level ICT PM.

Edited April 3, 2014 by themod53

[Bromney]

Can anyone tell me what is the range of salary for ICT Project Manager?

I got an offer of $90K per year. Is that good or not?

 

Really depends on your experience, your area of expertise (i.e. financial services, ERP, etc) and location. For Sydney $90k would be right for a junior PM, you'd be looking at $140k to $160k as a senior PM with experience in the financial services industry.