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Moving back to uk from perth in 1 month


Hayley723

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A really thought-provoking post Fizzybangs. Like you, I fear for what the 'get rich quick' culture inspired by the mining boom will impact upon the country as my daughter grows up here. When we lived in the UK my partner and our Australian friends always cited Australia as a country where those now old-fashioned values of fairness, neighbourliness and independence were still intact, a kind of throw-back to a more easy-going, less competitive era. Sadly, in my experience, Australia, like everywhere else it seems, is a highly competitive country where there is a growing gap between rich and poor. In some ways I am more often confronted with this than most people as I work for a homeless charity in Melbourne and so I see evidence of a growing underclass on a daily basis, whilst living myself in an affluent suburb where house prices are eye-wateringly high.

 

Trying to find accommodation for homeless people in the city is increasingly tough and The Age newspaper recently ran a story about how there are now over 1400 rooming houses in Melbourne where people who cannot afford private rental are housed. These are truly desperate places full of vulnerable adults and increasingly, young families, who pay up to $200 a week to share kitchen and bathroom facilities with strangers. It's a frequent litany of complaint from our clients that this accommodation is unsafe, uncomfortable and run by slum landlords who'll intimidate them or kick them out if they dare complain. And these proprietors are making big money, often cramming 8 single people into a room and charging $140 a week each for the privilege. Making money out of other people's misery.

 

Speak to my clients about the notion of the fair go and they'll look at you blankly. Plenty of them have worked for decades and paid into a system which has failed them. Men who've worked in hard manual labouring jobs have been discarded when they reached their 50's and their bodies can't take the punishment anymore, and increasingly, single women in their late 40's and 50's who are constantly passed over for employment because they're seen as expensive or risky appointments by employers looking for a cheaper, more compliant work-force. They're caught in a perfect storm of rising rents, growing population (estimates have it that Victoria will grow by 1.7 million people by 2020) and no political will by either of the main parties to initiate a programme of building affordable homes for working people and retirees.

 

No one should be homeless in a country as wealthy as Australia, but unless someone tries to address the widening wealth gap, then surely many more will be left behind and notions like mateship and living the dream ​will ring as hollow as a politician's promises.

 

I too worked in the homeless sector for a while and agree totally with what you have written. I was amazed by the number of beggars on the streets in Melbourne when I last visited - and quite aggro ones at that. Canberra has similar problems although fewer obvious beggars per square inch and people just cannot grasp that there is a distinct "underclass" out there. We had many clients who were contemplating suicide as a way out of their predicament - people who had worked for years, got a mortgage then been dumped at work and lost everything and had no idea how to access social services because they had never needed them before and were ashamed to access them now.

 

Remember the hoo haa about Rudd's homelessness policy a few years ago and million$$$ was poured into the states' coffers for low cost housing and wrap around homelessness services - that should have solved the problem (ha!) as they all signed up to rigorous targets but there seems to have been little benefit to those who most need it!

 

It's a thankless task - kudos to you for doing it!!!

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Sorry, you are talking rubbish.

 

Firstly, yes, there is a two speed economy. But that is not the fault of miners.

 

I don't know any one that "goes demented". There are plenty that join the industry and quickly realize it's not for them, but that is as much to do with them realizing the work is hard and the big easy money doesn't exist.

 

There are very few, if any, beautiful places taken over by mining. Have you ever been to the desert?

 

There is no right for a mining company to take over someone's land. I have worked on several sites that are farm land and some allow us on and receive compensation, others chose not to and we can go on.

 

Please check your facts before you post.

 

I despair of Oz sometimes at the moment - the mining, two speed economy as so many people are getting hurt whilst a few get richer and the workers go demented with long hours away from families. How this country is being taken over by mining in areas that are some of the most beautiful places on earth. How farmers apparently cannot stop mining companies moving onto their properties because although they have legally owned the land, sometimes for generations, they apparently don’t own what is underneath their top soil! Plus how hot and bothered we get here over a few refugees when the rest of the world does so much more for them.

We have been back several times for holidays and when we were leaving for one trip I bought a CD of 'I call Australia Home' to take with me and wondered how I'd cope being away from Oz for 2 months. I have been so happy here for so long, so proud to be an Aussie, so patriotic. That feeling diminished when Howard was our PM and has gradually disappeared since! Now I get frustrated with the narrow minded attitudes.

Some of the worst people oddly enough are those that came in as 10 pound Poms who know more tricks than most people in Government about how to rort the system, how to get freebies eg 2 lots of grants of $3000 each within 3 months for teeth and moan most about refugees who they call 'illegal immigrants'. I write to a genuine refugee - he's been stuck in a camp since a kid and he's still there after 30 years of waiting on the non-existent 'lists' but will these people listen when I ask them to imagine themselves in that situation and would they take a chance on a boat or I remind them that hundreds turn up at airports yet we never hear anything about them so nobody moans about them - No, they've made up their minds as they have about everything so don't want to hear.

We seem to have become a nation split into two – the people who give and people who take. It's probably the same in UK now but Australians used to be unique in my mind – ‘mateship’ was paramount, helping your neighbour, a feeling of 'We're in this together', 'battlers' in the very best meaning of the word, worldly even though not so many people travelled. Now I feel we are insular, transient, bigger is better, beat the system type of people and I include myself in this. I know I have changed and I want to find my old self. It was our last trip home that tripped me up and flattened me out and made me realise what and who I had become and I didn't like that person! So, we return to loving family who I have happily lived apart from all these years, I may well return but only because my 3 adult children are here and I hope my journey back will take me to the roots within me and I will become a better person for it. Would I recommend Australia now? I would say it is beautiful and having travelled widely it is in my sole but would I choose it if I had my time over - no, I wouldn't and my biggest regret is that my children did not get raised surrounded by their aunts and uncles and cousins in UK. They also regret it. And my true friends after 31 years here – they all live in UK!

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To add further to what Paul has said, big serveys have been done from migrants, which show that the majority, almost 80% think that their lives have improved since emigrating, especially for their kids, it's only a small percentage that it doesn't benefit and that's for many differing reasons, like someone said and the majority of those who come back do so because they miss family and friends, not because they don't like it there, Australia isn't everyone's cup of tea, but most love it there. Best of luck to everyone wherever you are going.

 

Yes, but there are also about 40% of migrants return home. Last year Oz had a net migration from Oz.

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I think we need to put a wee bit perspective in here. It is great that Hayley is going back to do what she wants to do and be where she wants to be but everyone's life is different. I have lived in Oz for many happy years and have friends who are like family there and now this comes to the big question that people underestimate - are you happy forging a new life in a new country without your family (or extended family)? Webweazel - sounds like you are in a bit of a panic - has your husband never worked away before? If not, it sounds like something you would not be comfortable with no matter where in the world you were. Anyway life is for living and being happy but as I said everyone's life is different and what makes them happy is different. So good luck to you all whatever you want to do but do not be swayed by what other people say (unless you want to be of course) for every unhappy story I hear on here I hear another ten good ones. Anyway have a really good think what YOU want from life

 

Thats MRS Webweazel to you dxboz! And panic is probably the wrong word, but you're right. I won't be comfortable with it anywhere in the world. Luckily, at this point, once we get to Aus, I won't have to be!! Hoorah!

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Yes, but there are also about 40% of migrants return home. Last year Oz had a net migration from Oz.

Very good point. Also a fact ,40% of Pomes return to UK within 4 years of their time in Oz. Lets face it most would give it a go for a couple of years anyway. How many return after 5 or 6 years? Or even 10? Do people stay because they love it or do some people stay because they cant afford to go home and just pretend they have the choice? Conversley do people go home because of family even though they prefer Oz?

Its not easy to give an explanation. The only way is to try for yourself.

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We are staying until our 457 visa ends in Mar 2015, the only reason we are staying is so that our youngest daughter can finish school here, we made her leave her friends and her school in the UK so we owe her that, the company are sponsoring us for PR, which we are going for now as we now lose the live away allowance, the rental property we are in is $490 per wk and isnt that good. Oz is not what we expected, the programme Wanted down under has a lot to answer for, I feel awful for being so critical when folk returned, I will be more sympathetic from now on, no one can comment unless they are actually here. My hubby is on a decent wage too, which I mentioned on a few other threads, so we will be returning having been here 4 years, only done 14 months so far :dull:

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We are staying until our 457 visa ends in Mar 2015, the only reason we are staying is so that our youngest daughter can finish school here, we made her leave her friends and her school in the UK so we owe her that, the company are sponsoring us for PR, which we are going for now as we now lose the live away allowance, the rental property we are in is $490 per wk and isnt that good. Oz is not what we expected, the programme Wanted down under has a lot to answer for, I feel awful for being so critical when folk returned, I will be more sympathetic from now on, no one can comment unless they are actually here. My hubby is on a decent wage too, which I mentioned on a few other threads, so we will be returning having been here 4 years, only done 14 months so far :dull:

I have always said these tv shows paint a false picture of oz and not what it is like to actually live and work in ox. Might start a thread.

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Very good point. Also a fact ,40% of Pomes return to UK within 4 years of their time in Oz. Lets face it most would give it a go for a couple of years anyway. How many return after 5 or 6 years? Or even 10? Do people stay because they love it or do some people stay because they cant afford to go home and just pretend they have the choice? Conversley do people go home because of family even though they prefer Oz?

Its not easy to give an explanation. The only way is to try for yourself.

I met a lot who were returning and an equal amount who were staying, living and working in oz is nothing like these TV programmes which give a totally false picture of living in oz, if only there was a tv programme showing how it really is, all the good bits...but ....also the bad points which they never do show.

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It's not easy when things don't work out, but it's not like that for everyone who emigrates to Oz.

 

Go with an open mind, always remembering that you're starting all over again from scratch -- much like you did when you first got married. It's a whole new world and one that can't be compared with anything you've known before.

 

There are hundreds of thousands of Poms living happily in Oz, so although it's not everyone's cup of tea, it's the gold at the end of the rainbow for a lot of people.

 

Give it a go and treat it like an adventure. Life is so short and we owe it to ourselves to have as many different experiences as possible in the few short years allowed us - even if you live to your three score years and ten (plus many more, all being well!), it's not all that long when you add it all up. Make the most of life in Oz, and embrace everything that comes your way. There are friends out there you haven't met yet, but you won't find them sitting at home moping about your old life in England when you feel a bit homesick; get out there and join in. I promise you if you're honest and open and up for a laugh, you'll soon have friends to help you along the way.

 

I wish you all luck and happiness.

 

barbh

 

 

 

 

Blinking hell. I read so many reports on here and Perth Poms about the cost of living and social life, that its putting me off going to Perth.

People going on about how hard and ignorant the ozzies are to get on with, how expensive every thing is compared to wages.

We are supposed to be going to Perth this year on 457 visa. Me, partner and two kids. The reason for this is basically to get a job as there aint nothing over here in my trade, and ive been offered same type of work in perth.

Getting worried now. Shipping things over, $4000, selling my car and making big loss on it, selling other large items which i will make a loss and probarbly never be able to purchase again.

Bloody UK recession and **** weather. Decisions decisions decisions. Mmmmmmmmmmmmm:animal-bat:

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  • 1 year later...
People do say to me now I am home, "Sorry it didnt work out" my answer to that is it worked out perfectly. I went to live in another country, but decided that I liked my homeland more.

 

Dont worry Tracey! Be positive and hopefully it will be all you dreamt of!

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Sorry to hear about your situation. We are glad that you are in the position to change it, to do what you feel will make you all happy and at the end of the day, that is what matters. As a family you need to be happy and if that means moving back to the UK, then so be it. Often we read posts on here from people who feel like there is something wrong in moving back and that they have failed in some way. That should not be the case as everyone has the choice to do what they want and if that is moving back after giving something a go, (that many people in the UK would not have the guts to do), then so be it. At the end of the day you did gave it a go, more than what some people ever do. They would rather give a big talk about what people should do, rather than bite the bullet and give it a go themselves. So good on you for giving it a go.

 

Reading the latter part of your post, it goes to enforce our decision not to sell our house in the UK, just in case it didn’t work out for us here. It has sometimes been a pain, but it has been like a safety net knowing that we have it.

 

Talking about climate, do remember reading a post once on here, where this chap found the heat and the sun here as restrictive as what the cold and wet was in the UK. Both things were stopping him from doing what he wanted. Honestly think that is the case. Yes the climate in the UK can be dull, damp and cold, but recently we have come to the realization that it was not that bad after all. Sometimes when we have been sat here sweating in the NSW heat we have been wishing that we were in the UK out walking on a nice crisp morning, wrapped up nice and cosy.

 

Totally understand your comments about the working hours as have heard that so many times before. The problem now is that Australia in no longer the land of the few. When we first though about coming over here many, many moons ago it was a case that someone could walk out of one job and into another the next day. This was due to the fact that there were so many jobs for so few people. Recently, a work colleague let his job and was fully expecting that he would get another job within a few days. He was totally shocked that it took him a few months to get new work. There are so many people here now chasing limited roles that some employers (in some industries) can demand more and more from their staff. Knowing that if their current employees don’t not like it, there are more people just willing to accept it all and take the role on. You do have to ask yourself though if your hubby is in continual pain from the high demands of his current plastering job and all the working the weekends, is that really the better life that you wanted, just for a bit of sun? It appears that deep down in your hearts you have come to the answer. However, we do have a friend back in the UK in the building industry and he was saying that for a fair bit now he has had hardly any work and that there is nothing around. The boom in Britain does not seem to be there yet, but they do say that it will be coming soon, so we wish you all the best. It is true though that life is too short.

 

When people say to you that you should give it 2 years, wonder why is that the case? In does seem that you have given it a really good go and have discovered that it is not right for you or your family. So what difference will another few months make? The only time that this is a viable statement is if you want to get citizenship before you go back. Then if you find you want to come back in the future, you are able to without any issues. If you are this unhappy now though, why prolong it for another few months in the hope of what?

 

Good luck with the move, we really hope it goes well for you and that you find what you are looking for. If we move back to the UK we do think that we will have more of an appreciation for what we had.

Edited by Phil & Vikki
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Honestly I dont know why people make such a big deal out of moving back. Why put pressure on yourself when coming over that its forever.

I have lived all over and currently in Perth. I will move somewhere else at some point but enjoying what is good about australia right now.

 

The mining boom is long gone but the bubble is still there, prices still rising which do make it hard coming over. the UK was like this a few years ago if you recall and it was p*ss cheap in Oz. Thats when people couldnt afford to move back, when they couldnt buy a UK house from selling up in Oz.

 

Its all swings n roundabouts, the prices will continue to go up here so for new migrants it will be harder for a while but i reckon the dollar will fall in value making it cheaper for new immigrants coming with cash again.

Either way right now it is harder than its ever been but in the long run you will get a house and pay it off just like in the UK (same old sh*t here or the UK).

There are better work opportunities in the UK though and here will only get worse i think for jobs but if your motivated you will move to where the work is.

 

I hated it here the first few months but that was just the stress of moving etc.. it is stupidly expensive and no wages do not make up for that as even if you do get paid accordingly - the government dont tax you accordingly!

yes there are annoying aspects to Oz - isolated views, higher tax, the 99% of the population are backward, rotten service with every aspect of buying anything etc but there are also good aspects - the weather being one and if you work in the right industry, hours are shorter and so are commuting times due to less traffic. i can't say you could ever get stressed here other than with the emigrating process, with work and life here it is very simplistic so stress is way off the radar.

 

Given what I know now would i still come here. My answer is no I wouldn't, I feel there are better places to go and the UK is rising quickly now..

 

...but I made my choice and I'm staying for a while and determined to enjoy it. Just dont get sucked into buying a house as the local population are besotted with real estate. leave that out of the equation and you can enjoy it (if you manage to get a decent rental). when the exchange rate shifts in your favour in a few years, sell up in the UK and then buy a mansion.

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Good luck to you Hayley with your move back!! We are waiting for our boy to finish high school next year and we are following right behind you!! Will have been here 13 years before heading back. Initially we loved Perth, it's been a great place for my son to grow up, but sadly no longer for us. Prices have sky rocketed, we don't go out much because it's so expensive to have a night out. Only a few months back, we went out for drinks and dinner (four of us) and between us, we spent $400 - and we didn't have a meal we had tapas plates. What an expensive night! . We didn't come here for the odd (expensive) night out and to spend all our money on rising bills and day to day living costs. Can't wait for the months to pass so we can leave and head back to family and friends in the UK.

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Sorry to hear about your situation. We are glad that you are in the position to change it, to do what you feel will make you all happy and at the end of the day, that is what matters. As a family you need to be happy and if that means moving back to the UK, then so be it. Often we read posts on here from people who feel like there is something wrong in moving back and that they have failed in some way. That should not be the case as everyone has the choice to do what they want and if that is moving back after giving something a go, (that many people in the UK would not have the guts to do), then so be it. At the end of the day you did gave it a go, more than what some people ever do. They would rather give a big talk about what people should do, rather than bite the bullet and give it a go themselves. So good on you for giving it a go.

 

Reading the latter part of your post, it goes to enforce our decision not to sell our house in the UK, just in case it didn’t work out for us here. It has sometimes been a pain, but it has been like a safety net knowing that we have it.

 

Talking about climate, do remember reading a post once on here, where this chap found the heat and the sun here as restrictive as what the cold and wet was in the UK. Both things were stopping him from doing what he wanted. Honestly think that is the case. Yes the climate in the UK can be dull, damp and cold, but recently we have come to the realization that it was not that bad after all. Sometimes when we have been sat here sweating in the NSW heat we have been wishing that we were in the UK out walking on a nice crisp morning, wrapped up nice and cosy.

 

Totally understand your comments about the working hours as have heard that so many times before. The problem now is that Australia in no longer the land of the few. When we first though about coming over here many, many moons ago it was a case that someone could walk out of one job and into another the next day. This was due to the fact that there were so many jobs for so few people. Recently, a work colleague let his job and was fully expecting that he would get another job within a few days. He was totally shocked that it took him a few months to get new work. There are so many people here now chasing limited roles that some employers (in some industries) can demand more and more from their staff. Knowing that if their current employees don’t not like it, there are more people just willing to accept it all and take the role on. You do have to ask yourself though if your hubby is in continual pain from the high demands of his current plastering job and all the working the weekends, is that really the better life that you wanted, just for a bit of sun? It appears that deep down in your hearts you have come to the answer. However, we do have a friend back in the UK in the building industry and he was saying that for a fair bit now he has had hardly any work and that there is nothing around. The boom in Britain does not seem to be there yet, but they do say that it will be coming soon, so we wish you all the best. It is true though that life is too short.

 

When people say to you that you should give it 2 years, wonder why is that the case? In does seem that you have given it a really good go and have discovered that it is not right for you or your family. So what difference will another few months make? The only time that this is a viable statement is if you want to get citizenship before you go back. Then if you find you want to come back in the future, you are able to without any issues. If you are this unhappy now though, why prolong it for another few months in the hope of what?

 

Good luck with the move, we really hope it goes well for you and that you find what you are looking for. If we move back to the UK we do think that we will have more of an appreciation for what we had.

 

I think the 'give it 2 years' comments were because you used to be able to get citizenship after 2 years (prior to 2007)

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i can't say you could ever get stressed here other than with the emigrating process, with work and life here it is very simplistic so stress is way off the radar.

 

 

That may be the case for yourself but not for everyone, I know for me I've lived here my whole life and seen it change ALOT over the years and not for the better. I am way more relaxed driving through the countryside to work then sitting on Mitchell Freeway for 2 hours everyday I refuse to live like that.

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I think the 'give it 2 years' comments were because you used to be able to get citizenship after 2 years (prior to 2007)

 

Possibly, but not the case now:biggrin:.

 

So really if someone is not happy 2 years would not make much difference. If they were coming close to the citizenship, then it would make sense to wait, but if someone really is not happy like here, it may just prolong the pain of it all.

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Possibly, but not the case now:biggrin:.

 

So really if someone is not happy 2 years would not make much difference. If they were coming close to the citizenship, then it would make sense to wait, but if someone really is not happy like here, it may just prolong the pain of it all.

 

I agree, there's no magic number .. you'll know in your heart of hearts ... why prolong the agony if you really don't like it?

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Hi everyone well Im back on poms in oz after 1 year, my last post was an update about my move over here!

We have decided to head back to the UK after arriving here on 29th June last year, our flights are booked for 19th July to Birmingham & believe me it cant come quick enough, we even have a calender crossing off the days!! This is not because we hate Australia as Perth really is a beautiful place its just not for us & we are so keen to just get on with everything & rectify our lives. We are gutted as Australia has been our dream for 3 years & the permanent residency visas took 18 months to go through, there was so much heartache & stress involved & now we just feel as though its all for nothing!

We came over here as my husband is a plasterer & with the uk economy there was just no work around, we also thought it would be a better life for our 2 children ages 9 & 6. We did come on a reccie trip in Nov 2010 & we liked it but now I know we were just looking through rose tinted holiday glasses & that when you have to accually make a living in this very very expensive place its completely different! I gave up my good job within the UK government, we sold a very nice house, the children left a lovely school in the uk & we made the move, we all had a week to settle in then my husband started looking for work & to our massive disapointment we realised that this perception that we had of us coming here & all my husbands work troubles going away was not real, he applied for job after job & no one was interested. We came over with savings but they were massively disapearing but we kept our chins up & got the children into a nice school in the area that we wanted, Butler. The children loved their schools & settled in very quickly. Anyway to cut a long storey short my husband decided to go up the mines as one of the dads at my childrens school was a superintendant fire fighter & said to my hubby if he did various courses he would get him up there, in Perth it is very much a case of not what you know its who you know! My hubby spent $3,500 on the courses passed them in 6 weeks & went up the mines, 8 days on 6 off. The money was good but after 3 months I was starting to feel incredibly lonely, the kids just wanted their dad around & I felt myself thinking that we hadnt moved to Australia for this lonely life, we had moved for a 'better' life. I told my husband I would rather go back to the uk than live like this & that I would look for a part time job aswell whilst he tried to use some of his qualifications to get a job in perth. I have 12 years admin exp so I started applying for jobs, my husband started applying for jobs aswell, he got called in for a couple of interviews but never ever heard anything back from them. That seems to be the score over here that you put yourself out to travel miles to get to an interview then they dont even have the decency to let you know either way! People keep telling me thats WA for you! I just think its bloody rude!

I have been applying for on average 4-6 jobs everyday, whilst my husband was up the mines I qualified as a personal trainer, another thing I was conned in! I was guaranteed an interview at the end of the course after I had paid $3,200 but this never materialised & when I qualified & asked them about it I was told the work had 'dried up'!

I was applying for personal training jobs then eventually got a job in a local gym, I was only given 10 hours a week & my weekly wage is $200, our shopping bill is $250 per week so I dont even cover that. I was told they have no more hours for me. I carried on applying for admin jobs as I had given up on personal training & I had also given up on part time jobs as Im sure in Perth they just dont exist, they dont believe in job share to create more jobs for working moms & I do believe that the UK is much more child friendly when it comes to working moms. I carried on applying for full time jobs but to this day have never had an interview, I just keep getting rejection emails saying my resume looks good but I have been unsuccessfull! I thought I would do ok as I have worked for the uk government for years but obviously not & am thinking that the accent may go against me.

My husband started working for a plastering company but the requirement is 80 square metres a day! This has damaged his shoulder & he is in constant pain. When we first moved here I said to someone 'god the wages are high arnt they!' & the reply was 'yeah but you have to work for them!' that comment couldnt have been more true!

The children have settled in fine but we all miss family aswell, we thought we would find it easier but its so hard & I think the children need their grandparents & cousins around them.

We are glad that we have had the chance to experience living in Australia but we now feel its time for us to leave. Some people say you should give it at least 2 years but if we stayed any longer we would have no savings left, this experience has cost us in the region of £20,000 so we want to go now so we have enough left for a deposit for a house in the uk.

There is absolutely no argument that the climate is better here but I feel we would be much more satisfied now in the uk & we will appreciate it for what it is, dont get me wrong we are totally dreading going back to find jobs in this recession as we have to rebuild our lives again but I would rather have to do that than stay here. We havent experienced 'booming perth' & I think unless you work away or work 14 hour days plus saturdays like my hubby has to then lifes a struggle here cos of the cost of living. We are not prepared to live our lives like that, we came here for a better life not to be work horses, lifes too short!

I feel as though my confidence has been dented in terms of jobs & I feel since moving here that I have turned into a different person & just want my old self back. We have met people here but they arnt like real friends who you have loads in common with in a way you are just thrown together & we just feel so isolated here.

Anyway enough of my waffle!! Were busy having removal quotes at the minute what a nightmare that is the cheapest so far is $4990, it only cost us £800 to bring over & its more or less the same stuff as we sold most of our furniture! Just the car to sell, a Mitsubishi Pajero for $16,000 so if anyone knows of anyone who wants one let me know!

 

Bring on the 19th July!!!!:no:

 

 

 

Hi Hayley,

 

Im sorry you had all this on your shoulders.

 

How are you settling back into UK life?

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