6000 Mining Jobs Announced

[VERYSTORMY]

It's not Juliar's fault that the commodities prices are falling. It's not the workers fault either, neither were they asking for too much money. Everyone was as happy as Larry when the price was right. BHP and RIO making record profits yet again. Soon as the price drops they lay people off and blame them for wanting too much money.

Bet they make record profits again next year.

 

it isn't julias fault that prices are falling. But it is her fault for hitting places like my mine with the carbon tax. We are a gold mine, so like most mines, our product is sold at a price we have no say in. We have no way of reducing our carbon output without closing. So we have been slugged with $45 million which we have to find back. Result is 400 people lose their jobs.

 

People were / are asking for too much money. That was obvious the day I landed in Oz. The moment I saw truckies were earning close to $100k. It was obvious it wasn't sustainable. It has been sustainable while prices were at ultra high levels, but they were never going to stay there regardless of what china did.

[Guest The Ropey HOFF]

There's some reason why unemployment is dropping in Australia, jobs are clearly being created somewhere.

[Perthbum]

There's some reason why unemployment is dropping in Australia, jobs are clearly being created somewhere.

I honestly don't think So Hoff , governments ave a habit of massaging the figures as we know so well in the UK, I think jobs are getting harder to come by worldwide to be honest.

Edited September 26, 2012 by Perthbum

[Guest51810]

No. Most are no longer doing so. There are skills that are in short supply, but becoming less. The classic example is the Roy Hill mine development which had announced thousands of 457 jobs. But since then the only news has been of postponements and redundancies from the project.

 

It was never a way of chasing down costs as it is actually more expensive. Contrary to what unions spout as it is a legal requirement to pay the going rate regardless. But then you have to add in the visa costs and relocation costs and it is only something that employers do as a last resort.

 

The one exception is constructions of mines. But, anyone coming over on a 457 for such a a role needs to be very aware that once the project is finished they will almost certainly be going home as there just aren't the exploration projects going on to result in new mines.

 

Yeah I thought id check how the Roy hill project was going along and noticed that theres some holdbacks. The company dave applied to has been mucking people around apparently, one minute its all go ahead and then the next its being postphoned. I have a relative from my mums side that had a job offer but they decided to stay here.

 

Yep your right about the costs - Roy hill have to pay for the travel out and for the travel back after the mine isnt finished. Not cheap! Also have to pay the same rate as australians get, i assume the unions would be watching them like a hawk.

[Life on easy street]

There's some reason why unemployment is dropping in Australia, jobs are clearly being created somewhere.

 

I have lived and worked in Australia.

A lot of the work avalable in Australia is now casual emplyment , zero hour contract work.

[VERYSTORMY]

Yesterday Newmont announced redundancies across Oz. Today, Xstrata have closed the Cosmos nickel mine in WA.

 

Iron ore price has picked up, but it is looking temporary given that chinas steel mills are reporting profits down 95% for the first half of the year. miningnews.com

[flag of convenience]

[quote name=Life on easy s

treet]I have lived and worked in Australia.

A lot of the work avalable in Australia is now casual emplyment , zero hour contract work.

 

That is correct. Hence the lower than expected unemployment rate.While casual rates may pay a bit more they seldom make up the hours. A place that I'd done a bit of work for not that long back, suddenly reduced the working week from a thirty eight hour minimun to offering to pay everyone out and changing to a twenty two hour week with poorer conditions.

Almost everybody took the payout so I've been told to be replaced in part by newish arrived folk to Australia.

 

The few that I am in contact with are unemployed for a little over two months. They are not on any unemployment figures as would not qualify for any dole.They are both convinced they will never find positions with conditions as good as their previous job. One worked one week in a casual position and didn't go back.Low money and bad conditions.

Edited September 27, 2012 by flag of convenience

[Guest The Ropey HOFF]

Average wage in Australia is over $65,000 and average pay rises are going up at a rate of over 4% per year, here in the UK pay hasn't gone up at all really in the last 3 years and most jobs advertised are part time, low pay and temporary contracts, it's just how it is, but most folk on PIO are skilled migrants, so they should be in a good position to secure a well paid job, especially in Perth, due to unemployment being only 3.6% which half the rate of the UK.

[Paul1Perth]

That is correct. Hence the lower than expected unemployment rate.While casual rates may pay a bit more they seldom make up the hours. A place that I'd done a bit of work for not that long back, suddenly reduced the working week from a thirty eight hour minimun to offering to pay everyone out and changing to a twenty two hour week with poorer conditions.

Almost everybody took the payout so I've been told to be replaced in part by newish arrived folk to Australia.

 

The few that I am in contact with are unemployed for a little over two months. They are not on any unemployment figures as would not qualify for any dole.They are both convinced they will never find positions with conditions as good as their previous job. One worked one week in a casual position and didn't go back.Low money and bad conditions.

 

All depends what you call low money and bad conditions flag. Might be a few people out there who would jump at the chance of a job. I would have when we first came.

[flag of convenience]

I expect you'll see what is generally expected to be a new government next year responding to employers demands and looking at sharply reducing costs on the back of a weaker economy. Pay rises then will be a thing of the past for most. As you see in UK and mainland Europe it makes no difference skill or not. When the economy is on a downward spiral there will be a surplus little needed skills......like UK house prices nothing keeps going up for ever. Although try telling that to the buy to get rich in UK brigade,during the decade plus of the housing boom ......

[VERYSTORMY]

Average wage in Australia is over $65,000 and average pay rises are going up at a rate of over 4% per year, here in the UK pay hasn't gone up at all really in the last 3 years and most jobs advertised are part time, low pay and temporary contracts, it's just how it is, but most folk on PIO are skilled migrants, so they should be in a good position to secure a well paid job, especially in Perth, due to unemployment being only 3.6% which half the rate of the UK.

 

But Hoff. Most are in jobs that are related to mining or reliant on the salaries that are. For example, most trades involved in house building are now on 2-3 day weeks. They are still employed so don't count to the unemployment rate, but most aren't earning enough to cover the large mortgages. There are thousands of jobs disappearing fast at the moment from mining. The famous Roy Hill project which a fair few people on here have been applying to via 457's is in the paper again today for making more redundancies. Boart Longyear, the biggest drilling company in Oz has now laid off pretty much all of it's offsides and put qualified drillers back to off siding.

 

Most of the downturn has picked up pace in the last few weeks and data won't show for a long time as you can't claim benefits till the redundancy is spent and so don't appear on the unemployment lists.

 

The high salary average in Oz is highly skewed due to a small amount of people earning high salaries. Have a look through the papers at the jobs on offer to get a idea of what the average guy earns. I had my fidge repaired this week by a tradie and we were chatting about this sort of thing. With overtime he makes about $50k a year.

 

This isn't the problem of china. But of Europe. China has been totally export led and it's biggest customer is Europe. Now, europe is not buying anything and it looks like things are going to get a lot worse their before it gets better and Oz is going to suffer as if Europe isn't buying then Oz minerals are not needed to build the things in china that it sells to Europe.

 

Add in the cost of mining here now and it was always on the cards. Hence why we have not bought a house as when I move here and saw what the cost of mining was it was always going to be unsustainable. Now even the gold miners, with gold at 1700+ are struggling. Simply because the mining costs are so high. For the mid tier to junior level, who are actually the biggest employers in the industry it is no longer viable. They can't raise money on the markets, the banks aren't lending so they have to rein in spend and look at projects that offer more bang for the buck. Hence, the total number of vacancies for mining worldwide is increasing still but falling off a cliff in Oz.

 

If you want to get an idea of how quiet the mining employment sector is, just give one of the agencies a call and the first thing they will tell you is that it is very quiet and there are many jobs about. Back in May when I was on the maker for a role, I simply changed my linked in profile to looking and within a week had 12 interview offers, I accepted 6 interviews and was offered 6 jobs. Now, I am testing the water big time as my current site are cost cutting, so far 1 interview and no news as he has so many other candidates.

Edited September 27, 2012 by VERYSTORMY

[Guest51810]

Im actually quite glad we didnt get to go. Doesnt sound very good there at the moment

[VERYSTORMY]

Im actually quite glad we didnt get to go. Doesnt sound very good there at the moment

 

To be honest Stacey. I think you have had a lucky escape. Coming here now on a 457 to work in a mining based role would be very unwise. In fact even if you had pr, if you were coming based on a role reliant on minerals it wouldn't be wise.

[PontePom]

I'm not gonna post any what the stats say etc

 

Living here and reading the papers watching the news etc its not at all easy in Australia for jobs or job security

 

I'm sure some parts will be better than others but I'm not going to discuss Perth or Melbourne etc because I don't live their but still read about in the paper but not in detail etc

 

So all I can say is believe who and what you want but I would trust someone living here more than someone not

 

Do your research and make your own choices and good luck to those making the move

 

Not pointed at anyone in particular just my view on posts about from UK members

 

Howard

[Guest51810]

Well daves job was in civil construction but i guess the same applies. He would of been shipped back home once it was finished unless we had another way of staying. I dont know if the other applicants on here have moved, two of them were headhunted apparently but have been very quiet.

[Paul1Perth]

Just a quick reply to verystormy. A snippet from your post below:-

 

The high salary average in Oz is highly skewed due to a small amount of people earning high salaries. Have a look through the papers at the jobs on offer to get a idea of what the average guy earns. I had my fidge repaired this week by a tradie and we were chatting about this sort of thing. With overtime he makes about $50k a year.

 

 

If he was a qualified electrician I reckon he was winding you up mate. My sons a sparkie and he had 3 jobs in 2 years, each one on a bit more money and to gain a bit more experience so he could get a FIFO position. After the experience and a couple of courses, which he paid for himself, he's managed to get himself an 8 x 6 swing, which he was after.

 

He had a job at a local employer in Perth before he went FIFO and was earning around $80,000. That was starting at 07:00 and finishing about 3:30 with an RDO every couple of weeks. On top of that he was knocking back cashies as he wanted his time off to himself. If the tradie that came round your house is settling for $50K he's probably doing a heap of cashies or he's not looking very hard for another, better paid job. Maybe he likes where he is and is happy with $50K.

 

I have a friend who's a plasterer and his wife runs her own business from home. Officially they don't make enough between them to do a tax return. Unofficially he asked me what I was on a few years ago and when he found out told me he earned that much in cashies. There is always the black economy to consider where tradies are concerned mate, they aren't going to tell you everything, you might work for the tax office.

 

When we emigrated in 92 it was in the middle of the worst recession here they had seen for some years, same in the UK but we had both given up good jobs to come, with no jobs to come to. No sponsored visas then, just a straight PR. I was out of work for 5 months but my missus started work as a nurse after a couple of weeks. We didn't think about what we would or could do but were just confident we would get jobs.

 

Maybe we were naive or just plain stupid, some of our friends thought so when we left, but we had both been through a couple of recessions in the UK, I had been made redundant once and had managed there so we assumed we could manage here too.

 

I take your point that there is a bit of doom and gloom about in the mining and resource sector at the moment but it's not even close to a recession, all I've heard a few people say is that the boom is over. After all the talk of overheating the economy and people saying things need to slow down a bit, that might be a good thing for WA, long term.

 

I get the feeling that you are a glass half empty type of guy while I might come across as too bright and can't see the bad side, but I've seen Perth when it is at it's worst and that was when we first came. Since then we've seen a boom like I've never witnessed before, even in the UK when house prices were going up 1,000 pounds a week and everyone was snapping things up whether they could afford them or not.

 

I think it's early days yet to panic people who are thinking about coming, expecting Perth to be falling into a hole. The iron ore, oil, and other mineral prices are up one day down the next, Europe is in a turmoil again (never been out really) and this will have an unsettling affect on everything for a while to come yet. I think Aus and WA in particular will probably ride it out again and in 6 months everyone will be asking what all the fuss was about. If you are right we might all be in the crapper.

 

Oh well, even if you are right I'd rather be in the crapper here than the UK.:cool:

Edited September 27, 2012 by Paul1Perth

[Guest The Ropey HOFF]

Ah but, the average pay in both countries is just the same, not everyone gets it, but most of us on PIO are skilled workers, who's pay WILL be the average or in some cases even more, like the police, nurses, doctors, dentists, prison officers, painters, builders, teachers, vets, IT workers, etc, etc. you don't have to live in Australia to know this, it's on google and people with these skills are much in demand in a lot of states, not everywhere, people need to do their research, but they are especially in demand in Perth with its incredibly low 3.6% unemployment rate, it will have to double to get to where it is as bad as it is in the UK. Mining might be struggling, but jobs are being created elsewhere, which was shown in the reduction in the last unemployment figures.

[VERYSTORMY]

He wasn't a sparkie, but a refrigeration engineer. He works for DACAPS which is the big company that provides repairs under warranty for most of the big makers.

 

The picture I paint of the mining industry is as a manager within the industry. I would not profess to know how the Oz or WA economy is going to go. As I have said on numerous posts, I don't think anybody knows. But, I do know my own industry and I have never seen it go down so sharply so much. Though as I posted, this is very much an Oz thing. Canada has witnessed a slowing, but nothing like the extent of Oz. There are numerous reasons for this. It mainly supplies to china, when this gearing started a few years ago, most of us were dismayed as it involved putting to many eggs in the basket. Mining costs have risen too much. Salaries are far to big and can not be justified. Red tape has increased to the extent it is now silly. The cost of regulation is huge. The sovereign risk has increased to the extent it is now on a par with a lot of African / south American countries. Little of it has to do with metal prices. It is more to do with the costs. The low metal prices are more the last nail. But as we are seeing with gold, even when healthy it just isn't enough.

 

None of this is new. Lots of companies have been cost cutting since the GFC. Most of the expat senior professionals I know have been quietly leaving Oz for a while.

 

How this will affect the WA economy I can't say.

 

Am I a guy with a glass half empty view. I would say no, in fact most people who know me would say I am an over optimist. But I am seriously struggling to find anything about Oz mining to be an optimist about at the moment.

 

 

Just a quick reply to verystormy. A snippet from your post below:-

 

 

 

If he was a qualified electrician I reckon he was winding you up mate. My sons a sparkie and he had 3 jobs in 2 years, each one on a bit more money and to gain a bit more experience so he could get a FIFO position. After the experience and a couple of courses, which he paid for himself, he's managed to get himself an 8 x 6 swing, which he was after.

 

He had a job at a local employer in Perth before he went FIFO and was earning around $80,000. That was starting at 07:00 and finishing about 3:30 with an RDO every couple of weeks. On top of that he was knocking back cashies as he wanted his time off to himself. If the tradie that came round your house is settling for $50K he's probably doing a heap of cashies or he's not looking very hard for another, better paid job. Maybe he likes where he is and is happy with $50K.

 

I have a friend who's a plasterer and his wife runs her own business from home. Officially they don't make enough between them to do a tax return. Unofficially he asked me what I was on a few years ago and when he found out told me he earned that much in cashies. There is always the black economy to consider where tradies are concerned mate, they aren't going to tell you everything, you might work for the tax office.

 

When we emigrated in 92 it was in the middle of the worst recession here they had seen for some years, same in the UK but we had both given up good jobs to come, with no jobs to come to. No sponsored visas then, just a straight PR. I was out of work for 5 months but my missus started work as a nurse after a couple of weeks. We didn't think about what we would or could do but were just confident we would get jobs.

 

Maybe we were naive or just plain stupid, some of our friends thought so when we left, but we had both been through a couple of recessions in the UK, I had been made redundant once and had managed there so we assumed we could manage here too.

 

I take your point that there is a bit of doom and gloom about in the mining and resource sector at the moment but it's not even close to a recession, all I've heard a few people say is that the boom is over. After all the talk of overheating the economy and people saying things need to slow down a bit, that might be a good thing for WA, long term.

 

I get the feeling that you are a glass half empty type of guy while I might come across as too bright and can't see the bad side, but I've seen Perth when it is at it's worst and that was when we first came. Since then we've seen a boom like I've never witnessed before, even in the UK when house prices were going up 1,000 pounds a week and everyone was snapping things up whether they could afford them or not.

 

I think it's early days yet to panic people who are thinking about coming, expecting Perth to be falling into a hole. The iron ore, oil, and other mineral prices are up one day down the next, Europe is in a turmoil again (never been out really) and this will have an unsettling affect on everything for a while to come yet. I think Aus and WA in particular will probably ride it out again and in 6 months everyone will be asking what all the fuss was about. If you are right we might all be in the crapper.

 

Oh well, even if you are right I'd rather be in the crapper here than the UK.:cool:

[newjez]

A few questions VS

 

How long have you been living in Oz out of interest?

Did you know the state of the industry before you arrived?

What's your plan? Stick it out until and hope for the best?

Do you think a change of Govt would improve things?

If the AUD and interest rates fell would it improve things?

 

He wasn't a sparkie, but a refrigeration engineer. He works for DACAPS which is the big company that provides repairs under warranty for most of the big makers.

 

The picture I paint of the mining industry is as a manager within the industry. I would not profess to know how the Oz or WA economy is going to go. As I have said on numerous posts, I don't think anybody knows. But, I do know my own industry and I have never seen it go down so sharply so much. Though as I posted, this is very much an Oz thing. Canada has witnessed a slowing, but nothing like the extent of Oz. There are numerous reasons for this. It mainly supplies to china, when this gearing started a few years ago, most of us were dismayed as it involved putting to many eggs in the basket. Mining costs have risen too much. Salaries are far to big and can not be justified. Red tape has increased to the extent it is now silly. The cost of regulation is huge. The sovereign risk has increased to the extent it is now on a par with a lot of African / south American countries. Little of it has to do with metal prices. It is more to do with the costs. The low metal prices are more the last nail. But as we are seeing with gold, even when healthy it just isn't enough.

 

None of this is new. Lots of companies have been cost cutting since the GFC. Most of the expat senior professionals I know have been quietly leaving Oz for a while.

 

How this will affect the WA economy I can't say.

 

Am I a guy with a glass half empty view. I would say no, in fact most people who know me would say I am an over optimist. But I am seriously struggling to find anything about Oz mining to be an optimist about at the moment.

[VERYSTORMY]

We have been here 4.5 years, so just before the GFC. It was at that point very good, then took a hit in the GFC but then picked up a bit. Though never to what it was.

 

Plan? Well, it's hard. Like Oz and don't want to go back to international FIFO if I can help it. But also realistic. At the moment I am being open to everything. Got my irons in the fire for a job in Ireland which might be nice as very interesting work and good money by Ireland standards. Also got a possible in Saudi, but only worthwhile from the UK due to tax. But also have a few irons in Oz which I am plugging most. But looking the hardest to crack.

 

Government. No, it has gone beyond that. The industry has lost confidence and the costs have escalated to the point that frankly you would have to be a idiot to invest.

 

A lower AUD would help and lower interest would help bring this about. But to be honest, I just don't think it would be enough. The opportunity for this was there a year ago, but now companies have projects underway outside Oz, it just isn't enough to bring them back.

 

A few questions VS

 

How long have you been living in Oz out of interest?

Did you know the state of the industry before you arrived?

What's your plan? Stick it out until and hope for the best?

Do you think a change of Govt would improve things?

If the AUD and interest rates fell would it improve things?

[Johndoe]

 

Until such time as the locals start hacking each other to death with machetes................along with those who manage the locals.

[Guest chris955]

I'm not sure anyone who has actually lived and worked in Australia believes that the average person there earns the 70k often talked about, it is pie in the sky for the average man/women in the street. The majority in Australia earn less than 44k.

 

 

The high salary average in Oz is highly skewed due to a small amount of people earning high salaries. Have a look through the papers at the jobs on offer to get a idea of what the average guy earns. I had my fidge repaired this week by a tradie and we were chatting about this sort of thing. With overtime he makes about $50k a year.

 

 

 

 

[Guest The Ropey HOFF]

I'm not sure anyone who has actually lived and worked in Australia believes that the average person there earns the 70k often talked about, it is pie in the sky for the average man/women in the street. The majority in Australia earn less than 44k.

 

 

Like I have said before, most folk on here are skilled migrants, they have to be to get their visas and they will nearly all get the average wage of $65,000 some will get even more. The average wage is just that, it's the same in the UK a lot get far less than the average.

[Guest chris955]

Like I have said before, most folk on here are skilled migrants, they have to be to get their visas and they will nearly all get the average wage of $65,000 some will get even more. The average wage is just that, it's the same in the UK a lot get far less than the average.

 

I have no way of knowing whether nearly all will earn 65k or not to be honest.

[PontePom]

Complete guess work I'd say

 

Hopefully some members who have recently arrived here will be able to answer this with more definite figures

 

Average wages in any country means nothing

 

You get what they offer you take it or leave it