TeacherTom

Quoll, what I do find hard is the conflicting information I receive. I've several friends (British) who are teachers in Australia and have all moved there within the last 4 years and have all found employment etc. The noises they're all making are 'go for it, it's not as bad as you're being led to believe, after all we did it...' So, that being the case, both you and Sammy need to accept that people clearly do get permanent jobs in Australia, and I've already accepted that it's difficult to do so. There isn't really anywhere else for it to go. I'm not being nasty, it wasn't me who accused someone else of being obnoxious, that was someone else saying that to me. I'm doing what I tell every little kid in my school- stick up for yourself, question the evidence, research research research and never give up. It's all felt a little like a group of bullies having a go at the new kid- keep at it, you'll not get far. Your job here is to impart advice and help and surely not to get shirty when someone questions the advice given. That's my right, after all. I've absolutely NO intention of leaving an assistant headship and the consultant opportunities this provides across the authority unless I'm 250,000% convinced it's for the best. No way! Your advice has been incredibly valuable and I can't thank you enough. I think I've gotten everything I need from the thread and so will leave you all in peace to enjoy whatever is left of the day!

A comment like this wouldn't wash with my year 6 students. It's riddled with assumption and generalisation. You also know nothing about the person with whom you're speaking, either. Beware in the future of making such vitriolic assumptions- they just make you look silly. Saying 'I know what I'm talking about- you do not' means absolutely nothing. I might as well say 'I can fly an aeroplane and you massage pineapples after shrove Tuesday'. It's just meaningless waffle and a bizarre, utterly dogmatic thing to say from someone who is meant to be providing advice. Well, not really, as I didn't ask for a synopsis of your CV or resume and find none of the above to be useful in the slightest. Let's move on, shall we? What do you want, Sammy. A medal? Would you like me to congratulate you somehow? I fear that you're simply used to having other teachers prostrate themselves before you and cow tow to your every word on this forum- I've done my research and seen many of your previous posts. You're dealing with a highly experienced senior professional who in all likelihood would be your line manager in any school. You see how I too can make ridiculous sweeping generalisations that are meaningless in the extreme? Relax, slow down, and behave. Don't make it personal. What you're saying is 'Don't disagree with me. No one is allowed an opinion that differs from mine, as I know more about this than you'. I just get the feeling you're not used to people saying things that oppose your view point or position in certain areas. It's called debate, Sammy- it's healthy, it's the way we move forward. I've got to question EVERYTHING you say as I can't base such a huge decision as emigrating to Australia on something someone says on a forum. That's not being 'obnoxious', it's being sensible. Don't be offended by it, just take it for what it is. I've heard everything you've said and am aware of every word you've typed. Rural is exceptionally hard. Regional is exceptionally hard. There are few jobs for immigrants and particularly in the Primary sector as there's a surplus of teaching staff across the nation. You need 4 years of tertiary education to gain accreditation by the AITSL. I guess that's it. Thanks for your time, Sammy. I can't really see this getting anywhere, so think it's probably best to call it a day.

Superb news, E2306! Many thanks. I'll PM you when I've worked out how to do it.... As a side note, I've already been in touch with AITSL. Their response was legendary! They basically told me that they could offer no advice that would provide a positive outcome, or give a pre assessment service. I was asking if my qualifications were enough. Bah...

Ahhhh Cambridge! I assumed that there may have been a Cambridge in Australia- when I was there I had a ridiculous conversation with a taxi driver in Melbourne. I'd been out to meet a friend in the city and had caught a taxi home. As we started to talk, I asked him where he was from. 'Russia,' he replied. 'Where are you from?' he said. I told him I was from England. 'I know that!' he said. 'Well, I'm from Doncaster originally,' I said back to him. At which point he pointed out the window to a sign post that said Doncaster on it. Unbelievable!! Ah, so.. tell me more about paying for my kids education over there. What's that about? Cheers

Yes. That's the point I was making. You can't beat me up with 'Australia is so hardzzcoreeee' and then not like it when I give an alternative example. I've been to 'remote' Australia and live 30 minutes up the road from Harrogate. Is there any chance you can provide something constructive, though? Like sharing your knowledge of which courses may be accepted as an 'extra year' without breaking the bank? Or impart wisdom on the conundrum of which state is more likely to give the best chance of actually getting a job when I arrive? Or how about considering the problems that arise when looking at a course at home vs a course in Australia? Cheers.

Quoll, it's not personal. I'm not offended by what you or anyone else has said. I just need more help than 'rural is horrific, you don't know what you're talking about'. Say what you like, seriously, but be prepared for me to reply with evidence or an opinion in kind. That's how it works, surely? All's good! I immediately clicked on the second link and that already looks awesome! I imagine that's precisely what they're after. I'll look into it further and it's excited me even more. Ah, Aurukun are looking for a principal I think. I did some research on that town... NOT GOOD! Aren't you up a little late/early, anyways?

I'll put it in perspective for ya. 30 people live there. It's accessible by boat 3 days a week (if the sea conditions allow), it suffers extreme weather conditions most of the year and doesn't have a permanent electricity supply. Electric generally turns off around 11pm as the Islanders share the single generator that runs the island- no cars allowed. There are no shops and most islanders have 3 or 4 and often more jobs just to keep the community working. Maybe it's moved on since I was last there, but my guess is that you've never lived anywhere rural like this in the UK. My point is a simple one Sammy- everywhere has difficult conditions. I visited Mozambique many years ago- that was tough. There are areas of Africa that I saw that I'm pretty sure would make the worst rural areas of Australia seem like Harrogate. Let's be honest about our experiences and put them in perspective. This isn't a contest and you're not dealing with an infant. Thanks for making me aware of the difficulties working rural, I appreciate it very much, but it's starting to feel a little like you guys feel that the only tough place to work in the cosmos is rural Australia and in turn if you've not experienced that, then you're just 'not getting it'. This isn't really the issue and we've all got better things to be discussing. Yes, rural Australia is horrendous for some I'm sure. Some probably love it. Fair enough, let's move on. What bothers me about 'big bad nasty frightening rural OZ' is how my children would benefit. The answer is, they wouldn't. So, in that sense, that's the end of it. Now, determined I am. What you've successfully done is fire me up to the point where I'm now more determined than ever, and there isn't a better feeling than that of being vindicated, is there? Cant thank you all enough for that, that's for sure! If I get my family to Australia and land myself a job (even under the circumstances with which you describe) then I'll certainly have you all to thank in part for that. Now, onto the more serious issues. I have two teaching friends in WA and a colleague in NSW who are currently working on my behalf to establish what a 'one year top up' may or may not look like. Any ideas there? Any suggestions? I think it may be worth getting in touch with training providers in Australia (HE providers and universities) and finding out what a one year top up would look like to them, credit wise etc. If you think that's of value, please let me know. Many thanks again.

Easily the best piece of advice I've had so far on this forum. Having waded through the threats of doom and the fear peddling, the only thing that concerns me about rural or regional living is the prospects for my own children. The whole idea of moving to Australia is to improve our standard of living and to increase opportunities for the kids; certainly can't do either of those things if we're stuck out in the back of beyond! I'm just not sure if you're aware how dogmatic this statement is. It's flawed in the extreme due to the blatant nature of the generalisation it contains. So no one from the UK has any concept of what the reality is of remote, rural and regional? How about you talk to the teacher who works on the Isle of Muck, I'm sure they could open your eyes a little to the realities of rural living, too. I'm here for advice, research and evidence. In order to make a decision like this one, I need hard facts, statistics and evidence and I need to question anecdotal hearsay. Here, for example, we find an academic piece with hard data that clearly shows the teacher 'surplus' in Australia is considerably more complicated than I've been led to believe: http://www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=16801 Many thanks!

Hugely helpful, many thanks for this VERYSTORMY. Found this really valuable. In fairness, I've found the rural schools across England to be the more leafy and better off, although results wise there seems to be an issue in coastal and rural regions here. Schools here (as you probably know) are judged on results and very little else- it doesn't matter that most of the kids can't read or come from single parent families, they are still expected to achieve national standard and if they don't, its YOUR fault. To live in the country here, you have to have cash. Most of our social deprivation occurs in the old mining towns, such as where I teach. Clothing children (although not naked children!) is something that happens in my school from time to time, as we have very high social deprivation, huge unemployment and a range of other social issues. Thanks again, really interesting to read about your experience.

http://www.news.com.au/finance/work/careers/schoolage-boom-combines-with-retirementbound-teachers-to-create-employment-demand/news-story/64847b026d32a436a8758f97ceb89ad7 A link showing that the profession will soon to be in huge demand again. “When you get oversupplies of primary teachers, they tend to be highly localised. There might be too many primary school teachers in Brisbane but not in regional areas. “I would be worried if people thought ‘I won’t be a teacher because there are too many’ — that’s simply not true.” This is what bothers me. I've had huge levels of conflicting advice and have come to conclusion that someone on a forum telling me they 'know what they're talking about' doesn't constitute as sufficient evidence for me to make a decision on. No disrespect meant. As for the 'droves' of Australian teachers heading to the UK, I find that to be a very broad term and have nothing but the utmost sympathy for them. I worry that an Australian teacher with a 3 year degree in basket weaving and a PGCE equivalent (making the magical 4 years) will suffer horribly under our education system. Where do they intend to teach? England has a very different system to Scotland and Wales, for example. Based on extensive research and conversations I've had with friends who teach in Australia, the Australian system will ill prepare NQTs or even experienced Australian teachers for what they will face; horrendous levels of high stakes accountability, performance related pay (that's correct, a system that determines your standard of living and livelihood and pay based on how well a child does in a particular standardised test), a punitive and supremely judgemental inspectorate (OFSTED- if you've ever been through a recent ofsted inpection you'll know how horrendous this experience can be) and a department for education that seeks to literally reform the system at any given chance. Local authorities with their own improvement agenda and a primary assessment system that's designed purely to ensure children and teachers fail. Trust me, I know what I'M talking about, too. Why do you think over 55,000 teachers leave the profession every year in England alone? I'm not attempting to offend when I say this, it's simply the way it is. Average working hours for a primary teacher in England is over 53. I generally work around that, sometimes 60, sometimes less. 25% of current teachers across all ranges are considering leaving the profession within the year. Having spent 7 years as a senior leader of education, an assistant head and a leading teacher across the authority, I've yet to encounter an Australian teacher. Where are they all? Interestingly, I did encounter an Australian woman a few weeks ago at a hostel on the west coast. She was backpacking... http://au.justimmagine.com/immigration-blog/post/australia-facing-teacher-shortage/ Very interesting reading on this Blog regarding the mythical teacher surplus. I'll get the extra year (whatever that means) and then see where we end up. Thanks for the links, informative and interesting to read. Tom

I hope this is a joke? Because if not, I find the comment to be in fabulously bad taste. Particularly in light of the fact I trained for 5 years collectively to become a teacher, spent 3 years on an MA and bust a gut to become an Assistant Head within 6 years. If 4 years is what they need, then that's what they're gonna get. I'm more than happy to take another year to get to where I need to be, although at this stage utterly ignorant as to what exactly AITSL would find acceptable. Advice seems to be difficult to get at the best of times. I asked the senior adviser at the Queensland body if there was a teacher surplus. He was quite specific in his answer. He claimed it simply wasn't the case that there was such a colossal surplus as I've been led to believe, and in fact there are of course rural and regional areas which are in utter, dire need of teachers. Thank you to everyone for your replies, I think this thread has pretty much run its natural course. Cheers. Tom

That's what I wanted an answer to. I'm wondering if it would be possible to gain entry on a temp basis to begin with, obtain a job on a temp visa, then apply for a permanent one once I've fulfilled AITSLs requirements whilst in Australia? That a no go? Tom

Thank you to all who've replied! I've spoken to a lovely chap at the Queensland teaching body, and getting registered there isn't dependent upon getting registered with the AITSL. So, is there a way to teach in Australia but not with a permanent visa, with a view to completing whatever extra credits they see fit whilst working on a temporary basis to begin with in order to top up my 'training'? All so I can be granted a permanent visa from AITSL? I know that's a mouthful! Cheers, Tom

Hi! Well, your reply certainly sparked a glimmer of hope. I clearly don't reach the requirements of A or B, so I'm guessing you mean that I meet requirement C? Thanks again.

Thanks for your reply, it's much appreciated. It's the same here in the UK, to be fair. Budgets are tight and schools are almost always (almost!) looking to appoint NQT's. Thanks again!