Marisawright

8 minutes ago, Loopylu said:

So you know my mind about Australia? Why do you always have to have a nasty dig at me all the time? 

It wasn't meant as a dig.   You said you wouldn't be in Australia if you had a choice.  I'm just saying, that even though I feel just the opposite, I still agree with you about the poor work-life balance. 

13 hours ago, Daniellequinn46 said:

Having a better quality of life is my main interest. The work life balance is way better there.

That's not necessarily true.  Don't get me wrong, unlike LoopyLu, I love Australia and have lived here for almost 40 years.  The lifestyle and attitudes suit me much better than the lifestyle and attitudes in the UK, and that may be the case for you too.  However the work-life balance is one of the major disadvantages of living here, if you work in the corporate or legal sectors. For tradies, teachers, medical staff it's different. But that's not you.

Firstly, the standard workday in many offices is 8.30 to 5.30, not 9 to 5.  So it's already a longer day, and then most people will be in the office considerably earlier or later -- because if you stick to those hours, you'll be regarded as clock-watching and get a bad performance review (I've known colleagues lose their bonuses over it, which is ridiculous considering they did their job and worked their full legally-contracted hours).  Also, to get time off for holidays (which are only 20 days a year), you have to go into battle with your boss (HR departments are always talking about encouraging staff to take leave, but that's all talk).  The articles below are both recent and older, showing it's been an ingrained culture in Australian offices for a long time:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-05-22/why-are-so-many-australians-working-overtime-long-hours/102353176

https://www.smartcompany.com.au/people-human-resources/human-resources/aussies-owed-106-billion-overtime/

https://www.smh.com.au/traveller/inspiration/australians-one-of-the-worst-at-taking-annual-leave-report-suggests-20150113-12mwh8.html

You may have read articles like the one below, which ranks Australia high on work-life balance. However for someone like you, who'll be working in the corporate/law sector, it's very misleading.   The score in the survey was based on these factors: minimum wage, sick leave, maternity leave, healthcare availability, average work hours, public happiness and LGBTQIA+ inclusivity.

Of those factors, only TWO are relevant to you.  You won't be on minimum wage or working average work hours, and sick leave and maternity leave are actually more generous in the UK than Australia.  So you're looking at only two possible benefits, 'healthcare availability' and 'public happiness'.

Even public healthcare doesn't compare all that well with the UK.  Medicare is our equivalent but you still have to pay for some services, unlike the NHS. For instance, dentists and spectacles aren't covered at all, you have to go private. Even a visit to a GP isnt free.  Waiting lists for hospital treatment are much the same as the NHS in most places. 

 https://www.bodyandsoul.com.au/health/mental-health/australia-has-one-of-the-highest-rates-of-worklife-balance-in-the-world/news-story/8c2e410472dd829459ba953d087bd286

Of course, one option might be for you to use your legal qualifications to get a permanent skilled visa, then when you arrive in Australia, look for a change of career outside the corporate sector?

36 minutes ago, Dancha85 said:

Yes at the moment, I have been offered a permanent job, well at least that’s what the contract states. However the school don’t know much about visa sponsorship so are currently looking in to it. I have asked if they would do 186 but not sure if that fits with the timeline? The other option is 482.

As I understand it, they won't be able to offer you a permanent job on a 482 because it's a temporary visa. 

If the school has never done this before, I wouldn't get too excited about planning just yet.  I hope they are engaging an agent to guide them through the process, because it's complex for the employer and there's a lot of preparatory work to be done.  If they've never done it before, it may take them several weeks to get their act together before they can even apply, and then the processing can take up to a year.   So I think they may be optimistic to count on you being there for January.

A 186DE would be a much better option for you, because it gives you security.  The question would be whether the preparation and processing times will be longer.  

Some of the agents here, like @paulhand, might be able to give a better idea of current processing times.

Just now, Dancha85 said:

yes I know we don’t have to go immediately but I didn’t want to secure a job before January as that’s the earliest we want to go. 
 

At this stage, it would be unrealistic for anyone to offer you a job any earlier. The risk of not getting the visa would be too high.

43 minutes ago, Dancha85 said:

good to know about the agents. How long does it usually take to move in to a rental once you have found one? 

Depends if the property is vacant or not, and whether it's been let before.  If it's not vacant, obviously you have to wait till the previous tenants move out, but the paperwork can be done in the meantime, then a week for them to inspect and take photos.  If it's vacant and been let before, then it's just a question of how quick the agency is at doing the paperwork.  If it's brand new, they may  not have done all the initial photos, condition report etc so there can be a lot of faffing around. 

43 minutes ago, Dancha85 said:

what is a relocation agent? Will they find us a property?

A relocation agent is a company that helps with international relocations, usually for corporations who are moving executives around. That's why they can be pricey, but the bonus is that you won't need to spend weeks in an Airbnb, because they can find a property for you.  Here's an example but there are several more in Sydney, who would also cover Wollongong:

https://www.expat.com.au/relocation-to-sydney/

43 minutes ago, Dancha85 said:

yes seems slightly conflicting advice for visas at the moment, some people getting them in a few months, which is too soon for us. 

There's no such thing as "too soon" if you're looking at a January move.  You don't have to up and move the moment you get the visa!

8 hours ago, Dancha85 said:

I was initially thinking we will come over in an air B&B for a couple of weeks to allow us to get sorted, but that wont work too well will it. 

Can we start the rent process before we move over so it's ready not long after we get there? Or do we stay in an air B&B longer to give us more time?

Most people get an AirBnB or holiday let for 4 weeks.  In the current tight rental market, depending where you're moving to, you might need 6 weeks. 

I wouldn't advise starting the rental process before you move.  Real estate agents here are crooks;  they shamelessly Photoshop all the images online, so you'd be a fool to sign up for a property without seeing it in person.  

If it's really impossible to move earlier, then I'd be engaging a relocation company.  They're not cheap, but then neither is 6 weeks in an AirBnB.  Where are you moving to?

BTW I'd be surprised if your visa will come through in time to start work next January, but maybe 482s are being processed quickly at the moment?

1 hour ago, Dancha85 said:

Yes that's a great plan. I'm not sure how we will work it yet, but probably be winging it as always. planning to go straight after xmas then we can hopefully be settled before we start work/school end of Jan.

TBH that's not a great time to make the move.  Many real estate agents will be closed for the first two weeks in January so you won't be able to start searching for a rental property until mid-Jan.  I'm not sure if you're aware how inspections work -- most rental properties are only open for inspection on Saturdays (and occasionally once mid-week), so it's not like you'll be able to spend two weeks viewing properties, in fact it will be only two Saturdays. Given the tight rental market, I worry that won't be enough time.

51 minutes ago, Jules13OJ said:

None of this is ever straightforward! 

 

No, it isn't.  I'd recommend engaging someone like Alan to do your tax returns for your first year in Australia as the whole thing is mind-boggling.  Once you see how it's done, you'll probably be fine to DIY the following year.  Note that the fee will be tax-deductible if you're paying Australian tax.

1 hour ago, BillW said:

HMRC provide a worked example here 

https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/employment-income-manual/eim75550

Looks interesting but needs a trained brain to get it right.

You'll notice that it repeats, several times, that the starting point is that 100% of your lump sum is taxable in the UK and you must declare it as income on your UK tax return.

So then the first thing you need to do, is establish which, if any, of the exemptions apply to an Australian fund.   In any case, all of them just offer some deductions, not a complete exemption from tax.

I can see how you're confused because I just did some Googling and the first results are all advice on the Gov.uk community forums, mostly saying a lump sum withdrawal  is taxable in Australia but not in the UK.  However all of that advice has been given by other members of the forums, not an official UK government official, so I doubt it's worth a bean. Especially as we know you wouldn't be liable for any Australian tax on your lump sum (assuming you're a permanent resident or citizen and over preservation age). 

37 minutes ago, BillW said:

Have a read of this, written in 2023 in the Telegraph - seems to imply that lump sum withdrawals are possible if you have access to the data to do the calculations required

I can't read the article because a subscription is required. 

I can read the question, which is "Will I be taxed twice?".   You already know that you won't be taxed twice, because Australia does not tax you on withdrawals from your super, or on your allocated pension.

It's simply a question of whether HMRC will tax you, and we know that they will.  Therefore the only question is, how much. That will be determined by the normal rules on income.

1 hour ago, nickinmk said:

Could we set up a "Family Discretionary Trust", and deposit my UK Private Pension into that, and then pay ourselves out of the Trust?  This would then lower the overall amount of tax paid.

The question is, would the Pension Fund agree to pay the money directly to the Trust?  I'd have thought they might insist on paying it to you, since you're the named beneficiary of the pension.  If they insist on paying it to you, you'll still be liable to pay the tax regardless of where you deposit the money.

3 hours ago, Ken said:

Absolutely everything to do with the double taxation system. The Double Taxation Agreement (DTA) between the UK and Australia specifically allocates the taxation of pension income only to the country where the pensioner is resident. This is different to the rules on all other income.

...but even if the DTA didn't exist, and the pension was taxable in both the UK and Australia, the effect would be the same (because both the lump sum and the allocated pension are tax-free in Australia). No?

1 hour ago, BillW said:

I read somewhere that the double tax agreement gives the UK the right to tax you on your Australian pension if your are resident in the UK

Absolutely nothing to do with the double taxation system.  The situation is this:

Whether you are living in Australia or living overseas, your superannuation withdrawals or allocated pension are paid to you free of Australian tax.  

If you are living overseas, your super withdrawals and pension are subject to whatever the tax rules are in your new country.  In the UK, that rule is that they are taxed as ordinary income.  

1 hour ago, BillW said:

I have seen hints in various places that one lump sum withdrawal per year might be a partial workaround and could be useful if you have nor set up the allocated pension yet - ie if you are still in accumulation.

So what you're saying is, don't convert your super to a pension, just leave it in the super fund.  Then take a lump sum withdrawals once a year.

I can't see how that helps.  You'll still have to declare the lump sum as income, e.g. if your lump sum is $26,000, you'll have to add that whole $26,000 to your other income for the year, and pay tax on it. You could take an allocated pension of $500 a week and pay exactly the same tax.

The idea may have arisen because until a few years ago, reporting on international money transfers was sketchy, and people could get away with transferring lump sums, not declaring it to HMRC and no one was any the wiser.    Now, the ATO and the HMRC share information, so that avenue -- which was always illegal anyway -- has closed.

20 hours ago, InnerVoice said:

I recall you'd had a poor experience in that regard which must've been frustrating. Hopefully it was an exception and most financial advisors are a little more helpful, even if you aren't exactly minted.

I have to admit, I had a similar experience as Nemesis with a financial adviser.  It might be better now, because of the ban on financial advisers taking commissions from the funds they sell.  However, that means they now charge a flat fee, which is a few thousand dollars, and some people baulk at that. 

I feel as though the OP's question -- will he be taxed on the lump sum if he withdraws it before he leaves - has been answered.  It sounds like you're talking about a much bigger question, i.e., is it really a good idea to withdraw the lot?  

I think there's a lot of strong reasons why it's a bad idea to withdraw the whole lot if you're staying in Australia in your retirement.  After all, the minute you take it out of super, you've got to put it in some kind of investment (even if it's just a bank account) and suddenly you're earning taxable interest.  And there's all that decision-making about how and where to invest. Not to mention the temptation to treat yourself to something with some of that lump sum, which you may regret when the money runs out later.

It gets a lot more complicated if you're thinking of moving overseas, due to exchange rate risks, tax differences between countries etc.  For that reason, I think he'd need to consult someone like Andrew from Vista, who's got experience of how moving between countries affects things like tax and pensions. Ordinary financial advisers either here or in the UK wouldn't know the complexities. 

2 hours ago, Blue Manna said:

Tbh I've never understood why Australia insists on it. I've always wondered whether other countries are more like the UK, or more like Australia.

The UK insists on it too. 

The thing is, if you are entering any country as a permanent resident, you need to have a travel document that proves you are a permanent resident.  A British passport without a current Australian visa doesn't prove you're a permanent resident of Australia.

15 hours ago, vegemight82 said:

I'm also surprised how unclear dual is (as far as my experience anyway?) my immigration officer never mentioned anything about having to get an Aussie passport as well as my British one. I just assumed it was added to the chip inside the passport

"Dual" just means you've got two separate citizenships which have nothing to do with each other.  

The passport is British so the Australians can't touch it.  And the fact that you've chosen to be an Aussie citizen is irrelevant to the Brits.

In fact, it's worth noting that when your UK passport runs out, you don't have to renew that if you don't want to.  If you go on holiday to the UK, you'll be able to enter on your Aussie passport as a tourist and no one will be any the wiser.  Not strictly what you should do but it works.

5 hours ago, AriannaC said:

we are only here a year and the processing time, when I have spoken to agents say it can be between 12- 24 months and then I have to stay an extra year to be granted one, which is why we haven't gone down that route as thats not possible. 

I assume that processing time is assuming you apply onshore. I wonder why it's so much longer than applying from the UK?    And why do you have to stay an extra year after that?  

2 hours ago, vegemight82 said:

So now my question is - do you have to get an Australian passport even though I'm considered a dual citizen?

As an Australian, you don't need a passport to enter Australia, because they're not allowed to refuse you entry.  However as you discovered, if you don't have a passport, they will faff you around for hours and it's really not worth the hassle.

54 minutes ago, Del said:

Hi Ken, I don’t own a property in the UK, I would be staying with a relative for a couple of months when I arrive before buying.  

I would also be living off my savings so no actual income as far as the tax office is concerned apart from interest on savings, which wouldn’t come anywhere near the $10,000 the tax office says is the figure to go by to do a self assessment return.

So, I’m hoping my cashed out Australian  Superannuation doesn’t need to be included in a self assessment return as I won’t be a UK resident when I cash it in.

I think the concern is that your super was an investment that made money, so there might be some liability for tax on the profits made within the fund before you cashed out. 

I'm surprised that's even a consideration, as I am 99% sure (and Ken has confirmed) that the UK taxman can't tax you on any profits earned before you were legally resident in the UK, even if you arrive in the middle of the tax year. 

I'm guessing the accountant who gave that advice, wasn't experienced in international tax and was erring on the safe side.

8 hours ago, paulhand said:

I’d be taking some professional advice particularly in regards to tax years and tax residency (or residencies) in the year that the OP moves. One for @Alan Collett

So are you saying that it won't be treated as savings, or are you thinking about the tax due on interest earned by the savings?

1 hour ago, Del said:

Hi, I’m 62 and plan on closing my QSuper account and taking the whole amount as a lump sum while still in Australia and then a couple of months later retiring to the UK.

My question is will I be taxed on the cash lump sum when I arrive in the UK or is it classed as savings from my Australian bank account into a UK bank account?

If you cash out your super, and it's sitting in an Australian bank account BEFORE you move to the UK, then it's just savings.

It clearly says, Each member of the family unit aged 18 years or over listed below,
whether they are migrating or not, must also complete a form 47A

31 minutes ago, BendigoBoy said:

Happy to stand corrected, but isn't there a maximum cap of something like $1500 or so that you pay in prescriptions before Medicare steps in and picks up the tab for the remainder?

There is, but you've got to keep paying out until you reach that cap.  For some people (and it sounds like the OP's family might be in that category), even that would be too much.  And it's already a lot more than they're currently paying (which is zero).  

40 minutes ago, Raul Senise said:

That's not really true as each would be a client in their own right.

Well, that's what I said.  The employer's agent is working for the employer.  They're not going to mislead you but they're not under any obligation to tell you anything.

9 hours ago, empire said:

Others well, they half/half mainly for:

• The health system is crap
• High streets are getting worse less banks and fewer stores

Are they remembering that the health system here isn't free?  Most GPs have stopped bulk-billing now.  At the moment, you can still find some that bulk-bill pensioners, but I'm not sure how long that will last. That means they'll have to pay every time they visit the doctor.  Some doctors charge as much as $80 per visit.

The waiting lists for hospital treatment are the same as in the UK. I'm sorry to say.  As you'll remember, a lot of Australians avoid the waiting lists because they pay for private health insurance, but it doesn't sound like you or your grandparents could afford that.

How many medications are they on?    In the UK they get their prescriptions free.  In Australia, they'll have to pay for them.  It's $7.70 per item, and that can mount up over a year.

As for banks -- Australian banks are doing it too.  

https://7news.com.au/news/union-slams-decision-to-close-all-bankwest-branches-in-western-australia-and-shift-focus-to-digital-services-c-13862175